General Rugby Discussion II

irishbucsfan

Cornell Du Preez fractured his Adam’s apple...

Rough auld sport!

awec

Apparently Lyon have offered Beauden Barrett a contract worth €1.5million a year.

Hard to turn that sort of money down.

sydthebeat

awec wrote: »

Apparently Lyon have offered Beauden Barrett a contract worth €1.5million a year.

Hard to turn that sort of money down.

Carter got €1.2 million 3 years ago.....

BB can command a figure double that next year i think

errlloyd

Do French teams have a salary cap exempt player like Prem teams? Otherwise I am surprised. I am actually sort of happy with a wage bill plateau we seem to have hit at the moment.

Squidgy Black

errlloyd wrote: »

Do French teams have a salary cap exempt player like Prem teams? Otherwise I am surprised. I am actually sort of happy with a wage bill plateau we seem to have hit at the moment.

Nope, salary caps are pretty much ignored in the top 14. Racing's wage bill is €34m, Clermont and Tolouse are around €32m.

The Lost Sheep

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Nope, salary caps are pretty much ignored in the top 14. Racing's wage bill is €34m, Clermont and Tolouse are around €32m.

Thats not their wage bill are those figures not the clubs overall budget for wages and everything else

Former Former

sydthebeat wrote: »

Carter got €1.2 million 3 years ago.....

BB can command a figure double that next year i think

Ah here. He won't like. Carter was on a salary of 850k (which is still loads, obviously), but these headline figures always have endorsements and other stuff included. Remember when Goromaru was supposed to be the biggest earner in rugby?

errlloyd

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Nope, salary caps are pretty much ignored in the top 14. Racing's wage bill is €34m, Clermont and Tolouse are around €32m.

Yeah, that includes the running of their ancillary services. Toulose have a Michelin Star restaurant I believe.

kuang1

https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/boks-jump-2-spots-in-world-rugby-rankings-20180917

Has it ever happened before where 3 of the top 4 teams were from the NH?

Must suck to be an Australian fan right now.

Yeah_Right

kuang1 wrote: »

https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/boks-jump-2-spots-in-world-rugby-rankings-20180917

Has it ever happened before where 3 of the top 4 teams were from the NH?

Must suck to be an Australian fan rigtht now.

FYP

Seriously though, how are England 4th?

shootermacg

kuang1 wrote: »

https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/boks-jump-2-spots-in-world-rugby-rankings-20180917

Has it ever happened before where 3 of the top 4 teams were from the NH?

Must suck to be an Australian fan right now.

I'm a big fan of Cheika. But I do think he needs to go at this stage. Unfortunately a change is needed.

joseywhales

I mean a new coach isn't going to give them an extra 50 professional players and 5 world class players.

CatFromHue

It would be a change for changes sake.

Just looking at the Super rugby table for this season and it's not a pretty read for Aussie rugby.

They'd only one team finish in the overall top 6, the tahs who finished third as they topped their conference but really only finished 6th, and then it's 9, 10, and 13 spot for the other teams.

He had them second at the RWC and then two second placed finishes in the Rugby Championship since.

shootermacg

CatFromHue wrote: »

It would be a change for changes sake.

That's exactly my point.

Cheika is is on record as saying he wants to bring back running rugby, well that's fine if he had the players, he doesn't. But he's not able to change his game plan.

It's like they've no idea how to transition from attack into defence. If he doesn't drop Folau for the rest of the championship, then he's lost his nerve.

Synode

shootermacg wrote: »

If he doesn't drop Folau for the rest of the championship, then he's lost his nerve.

Drop arguably his best back? Madness. He made a complete balls of a chance to win the match but he's still a very, very good player

Clegg

Cipriani has been left out of the England training squad to take place this weekend.

Don't get arrested lads.

Buer

Clegg wrote: »

Cipriani has been left out of the England training squad to take place this weekend.

Don't get arrested lads.

Do the crime...

He's playing some fantastic stuff at the moment too. His pass for the final try on the opening day was a thing of beauty. Plus, Billy 36 is taking all the kicks at goal which is allowing him concentrate on his own game entirely.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in before the end of the season.

irishbucsfan

Poor auld goldywrists

sydthebeat

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Poor auld goldywrists

though he was up to platinum after that pass to Sharples

The real mccoy 91

Jones is really hanging his own noose here for me saying cipriani is dropped based on form he has absolutely tore up the premiership in the first 3 weeks and now he says he is dropping him based on form? Just say it's because he got arrested and people will give out but understand but now he is taking the piss. Cipriani kept his job for him in South Africa and if they play as badly now in November he could be gone before the world cup imo

stephen_n

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

Jones is really hanging his own noose here for me saying cipriani is dropped based on form he has absolutely tore up the premiership in the first 3 weeks and now he says he is dropping him based on form? Just say it's because he got arrested and people will give out but understand but now he is taking the piss. Cipriani kept his job for him in South Africa and if they play as badly now in November he could be gone before the world cup imo

I think you'll find many more English fans would have the knives out if Cipriani got selected. If Eddie came out and said it was because of the arrest, the door would be closed, saying it's because of form, leaves wiggle room for a future re-entry.

I hope Jones lasts until the world cup.

Nothing I've seen since before their last tour to Argentina suggests that he can bring them on and they have been going backwards for over 18 months in my opinion. They'll be competitive enough in the Autumn and Six Nations but I could see this squad not progressing beyond the pools with France and Argentina to deal with.

Nothing France does between now and the world cup matters. They could lose every game and they'll still get one or two outrageous results in the tournament. Argentina are sharpening their teeth it seems also - it's become a much more interesting pool.

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

I hope Jones lasts until the world cup.

Nothing I've seen since before their last tour to Argentina suggests that he can bring them on and they have been going backwards for over 18 months in my opinion. They'll be competitive enough in the Autumn and Six Nations but I could see this squad not progressing beyond the pools with France and Argentina to deal with.

Nothing France does between now and the world cup matters. They could lose every game and they'll still get one or two outrageous results in the tournament. Argentina are sharpening their teeth it seems also - it's become a much more interesting pool.

Jones is going to revert back to the rugby he played in his first year in charge. A lot will depend on the availability of Billy V, but England are and will be capeable of challenging beyond the group stages playing like that.

stephen_n

stephen_n wrote: »

Jones is going to revert back to the rugby he played in his first year in charge. A lot will depend on the availability of Billy V, but England are and will be capeable of challenging beyond the group stages playing like that.

I disagree on two counts. I don't think they are playing all that differently and I think that is part of the problem. They've become a predictable team and have lost a lot of the core skills they developed under Lancaster / Farrell.

I don't think the players respect Jones either, there is clear frustration there which has boiled over and the optics to me are that he's lost the dressing room.

England could win the world cup, they have enough good players, but between a lack of leaders in the team, a lack of truly world class players, a major coaching issue and one of the most difficult pools I think it could go badly for them.

November will be fascinating. They'll end up beating the All Blacks - wait and see!

Dubinusa

I think they can beat the kiwis.i also think they can turn it around and win the 6 nations. But if they don't bring in new blood at 9 or a faster more dynamic back row, they will not win the world cup.
I think the early success of Jones' tenure has fogged the glasses a bit. Now they are struggling and he appears inept. It can change and he could reverse their fortunes but, a bad Nov and 6 nations and I think they are toast. The fact that he depends on Billy V so much is telling. He is unable or unwilling to change the plan and try something new. I could never see Jones playing P.O.M at 7 if he were our coach.
He may not trust his players and his system appears stringent and dependent on certain players. Schmidt, on the other hand has back row players that can multitask and do bits of everything and do it well.

Dog Botherer

If Argentina can continue playing like they are now and build towards their usual World Cup form, they could absolutely humiliate England at the World Cup.

Which I would take absolutely no enjoyment in, of course. Strictly neutral observer here.

Clegg

Im not going to count out England just yet. Get Tuilagi and Vunipola back and you've a completely transformed side.

kuang1

Clegg wrote: »

Im not going to count out England just yet. Get Tuilagi and Vunipola back and you've a completely transformed side.

On paper yes.
But my own feeling is that Jones lost the dressing room a good while back. And he won't get it back by any means.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Im not going to count out England just yet. Get Tuilagi and Vunipola back and you've a completely transformed side.

I wouldn't let Tuilagi near my team. Super talented but he's had discipline problems and is never fit for any reliable amount of time. He was also insisting a while back that his injuries were caused by ghosts and a witch doctor healed him.

Vunipola is probably one of the best 8's in World Rugby but also rarely fit these days. I also think that one person no matter how talented isn't going to turn England around. Will help, but the rot runs deeper.

prawnsambo

kuang1 wrote: »

On paper yes.
But my own feeling is that Jones lost the dressing room a good while back. And he won't get it back by any means.

Whatever about the dressing room, he's lost far too many of his coaching team to be a coincidence.