General Rugby Discussion II

Clegg

The appointment of John Mitchell is a very interesting one. By all accounts he's a good coach but with a spiky character that usually ends up with a significant amount of players bad staff hating his guts. But bringing him in as a short term fix for the world cup could work wonders.

Or lead to a further meltdown this time dragging Eddie along with him. Either way it'll be interesting to watch.

stephen_n

Deleted User wrote: »

I disagree on two counts. I don't think they are playing all that differently and I think that is part of the problem. They've become a predictable team and have lost a lot of the core skills they developed under Lancaster / Farrell.

I don't think the players respect Jones either, there is clear frustration there which has boiled over and the optics to me are that he's lost the dressing room.

England could win the world cup, they have enough good players, but between a lack of leaders in the team, a lack of truly world class players, a major coaching issue and one of the most difficult pools I think it could go badly for them.

November will be fascinating. They'll end up beating the All Blacks - wait and see!

I don’t know about the dressing room, that is very hard to say looking from the outside in. It’s possible, but we just don’t know.

I’d agree that England were in decline before last year, but it was obviously a bit more apparent in the last 12 months. That said, their players looked jaded after the lions tour, that had to be a factor.

England are not the smartest team on the planet that’s for sure. But they are capeable of out muscling nearly any team. I think that’s what we will see over the next 12 months. Nothing fancy, just 10 man rugby, if they can get their defence right, they will win like that.

The real mccoy 91

stephen_n wrote: »

I think you'll find many more English fans would have the knives out if Cipriani got selected. If Eddie came out and said it was because of the arrest, the door would be closed, saying it's because of form, leaves wiggle room for a future re-entry.

Any English fan that had knives out if he got selected wouldn't have a clue about what is best for them imo England's strongest 15 has cipriani starting at 10 he is 10 times better than ford attacking wise and they are as bad as each other defensively. On them winning a world cup it's possible with the right team but I don't think Jones will pick the right team. If they lined up
1. Mako
2. Hartley
3. Sinlker.
4.itoje
5.Kruis
6.shiels
7.Rhodes
8. Billy v
9. Youngs
10. Cipriani
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi/slade
14. Ashton
15. Daly

That would be one hell of an exciting and deadly team to watch that is capable of winning a world cup

stephen_n

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

Any English fan that had knives out if he got selected wouldn't have a clue about what is best for them imo England's strongest 15 has cipriani starting at 10 he is 10 times better than ford attacking wise and they are as bad as each other defensively. On them winning a world cup it's possible with the right team but I don't think Jones will pick the right team. If they lined up
1. Mako
2. Hartley
3. Sinlker.
4.itoje
5.Kruis
6.shiels
7.Rhodes
8. Billy v
9. Youngs
10. Cipriani
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi/slade
14. Ashton
15. Daly

That would be one hell of an exciting and deadly team to watch that is capable of winning a world cup

Cipriani’s ability isn’t the issue, you’re clearly missing the point.

Yeah_Right

What makes people think Jones has lost the dressing room? Anything specific?

Didn't realize that Mitchell had been brought in.

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

What makes people think Jones has lost the dressing room? Anything specific?

Didn't realize that Mitchell had been brought in.

He’s a big meanie!


Mitchell hasn’t arrived yet. He also will not be living in England. It’ll be interesting to see how successful his system is against Schmidt/Gatland

Burkie1203

This would be rugby gone soft?

RIP

https://twitter.com/AlanDymock/status/1044119027755429889?s=19

zambrotta11

World rugby apparently to introduce a 'League of Nations' format involving the top 12 teams in the world from 2020 onwards. Instead of the autumn internationals there would be a tournament of four groups of three, with three pool games followed by a semi-final and final and it would alternate between the Northern and Southern Hemisphere each November.

Would be very interesting but seems to be speculation at the moment.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12130530

Buer

Would such a proposal not completely devalue the RWC and also serve to widen the gap between the top teams and the others? No more touring matches for weaker nations. The following are all outside the top 12 currently: Italy, USA, Georgia, Samoa, Canada. I'm sure they'd squeeze Italy in but that would be at the expense of someone like Japan.

There will be massive resistance from the northern hemisphere, I'd imagine. Every second year, they'll need to plan for a month long tour of the southern hemisphere in the middle of their season. The clubs would lose the plot in England and France.

errlloyd

zambrotta11 wrote: »

World rugby apparently to introduce a 'League of Nations' format involving the top 12 teams in the world from 2020 onwards. Instead of the autumn internationals there would be a tournament of four groups of three, with three pool games followed by a semi-final and final and it would alternate between the Northern and Southern Hemisphere each November.

Would be very interesting but seems to be speculation at the moment.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12130530

If its groups of three you'd only have two pool games semis and final. So actually reasonably workable in a 4 weekend period.

Personally I've no problem with the current format, but I haven't analysed it enough. Perhaps there is soemthing I'm not seeing.

thomond2006

This is essentially a further ringfencing of the top tier of international rugby. No thanks.

irishbucsfan

I think this is a play for leverage

Buer

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I think this is a play for leverage

From the SH nations? I can't think of any other party that would benefit from such a proposal.

Yeah_Right

Yeah_Right wrote: »

What makes people think Jones has lost the dressing room?

There isn't one specific incident that you can point to and no one outside the setup can say with any certainty but there are a couple of things which individually mean nothing but combined suggest there might be an issue:

After the barbarians game he threw the team under the bus. They'd just leaked an avalanche of tries and all he talked about was the 15 players due back in. This was against a make shift barbarians team, it was a terrible series of comments to make.

He's an abrasive character but he doesn't quite seem to gauge his comments all that well and the RFU have had to step in previously to clean things up.

Quite a few of his players were involved in afters with supporters in South Africa, Ben Young's walked off in the middle of an interview. All these things hint at a problem with that may have it's origins off the field.

Lastly, the team are playing awful. It's not just that they lack shape and are poorly coached, they lack intensity and whimpered through their last three six nations games this year. They needed a reaction at home after two away losses to Scotland and France but didn't really ask Ireland a lot of questions. I thought we were very clinical in attack and absolutely relentless in defence that day but England should have brought the game to us, not the other way around.

I don't think it's all Jones's fault, I've said it before but they appear to lack leaders within the squad. Losing the dressing room doesn't mean the players don't like the guy or there has been a falling out, but they don't appear to be playing for him and they don't appear to have belief in what they are doing.

The number of departures from the setup also is suggestive of a potential issue.

Again - no one major factor but a combination of incidents that would raise questions.

There is no way that the various unions and clubs will agree to lose a bulk of players for 4 - 6 weeks in November. Not only does it devalue the world cup as has been pointed out, it's going to have an impact on the six nations and it would be hugely disruptive for the pro tournaments in the NH as well as the Heinekin cup.

This doesn't look like a credible suggestion to me.

irishbucsfan

Buer wrote: »

From the SH nations? I can't think of any other party that would benefit from such a proposal.

Global calendar is heading back towards brinksmanship

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

Im not going to count out England just yet. Get Tuilagi and Vunipola back and you've a completely transformed side.

And right on cue Tuilagi pulls out of the England squad due to injury. The guy has no luck whatsoever. He's firmly in the Ferris/Luke Fitz category of perma injured.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/45622003

troyzer

The Nations League concept is interesting but doesn't seem to make any sense for anyone.

People are saying the SH benefits but they don't really. It would almost certainly lead to the end of the Rugby Championship.

swiwi_

I know I should see bonhomie between the NH and the SH. But all I see is dazzling white sneakers with a dress suit.

Former Former

https://www.worldrugby.org/news/367800

All very vague but basic principle seems to be making July and November tests part of a competition alright

awec

Joe Marler retiring from international rugby at 28.

Personal reasons.

troyzer

awec wrote: »

Joe Marler retiring from international rugby at 28.

Personal reasons.

Very interested to see what the craic is there. A year out from a world cup? And staying with Quins?

Weird.

stephen_n

Maybe the personal reasons were Eddie telling him he wouldn't be selected again.

Mookie Blaylock

Did Marler already say he was retiring from international rugby next year anyway?.... just brought the date forward a year?

Burkie1203

stephen_n wrote: »

Maybe the personal reasons were Eddie telling him he wouldn't be selected again.

Or maybe he didn't fancy having eddie's training methods retiring him

Burkie1203

https://twitter.com/ultimaterugby/status/1045197088420777987?s=19

troyzer

errlloyd

I think letting Te'o go was a good decision, although to be fair the knock on effect of him going was felt by Connacht more than Leinster.

swiwi_

https://pulse-static-files.s3.amazonaws.com/worldrugby/document/2018/09/24/ff20c5af-2d9f-4efa-aadf-fdaaf098ca11/WRA-2018-Breakthrough-POTY-nominee-longlist.pdf

Larmour as a potential breakthrough player.

NZ with Karl and his mo’, Goodhue, Frizell and Parkes (ha ha).

Hard to know who will win but Larmour looks the best of the Irish options (he he) while Goodhue for mine of the Kiwis, although big Karl has literally come from absolutely nowhere.

sydthebeat

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/pacific-islands-super-rugby-team-moves-step-closer-but-based-in-hawaii?utm_source=edm-friday-preview&utm_medium=email-news-story-link&utm_campaign=super-rugby

Interesting if slightly off the wall idea