3 arena hall and Oates sound quality

Oscar Bravo

Pretty pointless comparison.
Totally different setup and set of problems producing live sound in a different arena every night to a one-off TV studio performance.[/QUOTE]

we get it, they were rubbish last night.

SteM

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

we get it, they were rubbish last night.

I've no idea of they were or not, just saying it was pointless comparison

gawker

Twitter has plenty of complaints about sound at their concerts in London the previous nights, looks like it's their tech / sound engineers not doing their job right as opposed to the promoter / venue.

https://twitter.com/JulieLoolibelle/status/925053565126705152

Sleeper12

chicorytip wrote:

Neil Diamond makes an atrocious noise anyway regardless of the quality of the sound system it's directed through.

I had his greatest hits on in the van over the weekend. He had a few great songs. When he was good he was good imo

Telecaster58

I think the explanation is quite simple.
In the era of positive discrimination it is necessary for employers to offer jobs to differently abled persons, and in this instance Hall & Oates decided to employ Helen Keller as a sound engineer.

Sleeper12

gawker wrote:

Twitter has plenty of complaints about sound at their concerts in London the previous nights, looks like it's their tech / sound engineers not doing their job right as opposed to the promoter / venue.

Plenty have given three arena one star reviews today on Google. This is very unfair on the venue when it's obviously nothing to do with the venue as your link shows.

Why won't people who attended blame the band instead of passing the buck on the venue or promoter

bennyl10

queenie 10 wrote: »

sound was an absolute disgrace. Piercing, then muffled. walked out before the encore.
going to Steely Dan and Doobies tonight, sound better be BETTER.
going to look for a refund.

You’re not entitled to a refund. At all.
The bands sound engineer didn’t do his job.

Mcd and the 3arena all did there end of the bargain

emo72

if it was hall and oates sound engineer, he should be given a bollocking. im not expecting money back, no chance, but the price of tickets in ireland is steep. and then to be served up that muck? its a joke and hall and oates should be ashamed of themselves thinking they can get away with that shoddy ****e. an apology would be nice, and an acknowledgement that it wont happen again.

AndrewJRenko

chicorytip wrote: »

Neil Diamond makes an atrocious noise anyway regardless of the quality of the sound system it's directed through.

Check out his '12 Songs' album - when you get away from the cheesy hits, there is some interesting stuff there.

Zardoz wrote: »

No ,bad sound is bad sound ,its not really subjective .

True, but it is very difficult to prove either way after the fact.

Telecaster58 wrote: »

I think the explanation is quite simple.
In the era of positive discrimination it is necessary for employers to offer jobs to differently abled persons, and in this instance Hall & Oates decided to employ Helen Keller as a sound engineer.

Did you really have to have a dig at employment for people with disabilities? Fairly low.

Mr.S wrote: »

The point we’re trying to make is that MCD cannot and will not influence the music being played on the night, how can they be held responsible for something so subjective and totally out of their control?

Furious-Red wrote: »

No MCD did there job , they booked and promoted the gig its up to the band and their crew to make sure that the production/performance is up to scratch

bennyl10 wrote: »

You’re not entitled to a refund. At all.
The bands sound engineer didn’t do his job.

Mcd and the 3arena all did there end of the bargain

MCD took the money from the punter and have a legal obligation to provide a service that is 'fit for purpose'. How they choose to deal with the band and the crew is up to them, but if you take public money, you have to provide a service.

bennyl10

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Check out his '12 Songs' album - when you get away from the cheesy hits, there is some interesting stuff there.


True, but it is very difficult to prove either way after the fact.


Did you really have to have a dig at employment for people with disabilities? Fairly low.





MCD took the money from the punter and have a legal obligation to provide a service that is 'fit for purpose'. How they choose to deal with the band and the crew is up to them, but if you take public money, you have to provide a service.

Mcd facilitated the concert taking place, it did so. The fact that the actual act wasn’t to expectations does not mean it is fit for purpose.
The concert took place, the sound engineer is just awful at their job.

Nothing mcd could have done

AndrewJRenko

bennyl10 wrote: »

Mcd facilitated the concert taking place, it did so. The fact that the actual act wasn’t to expectations does not mean it is fit for purpose.
The concert took place, the sound engineer is just awful at their job.

Nothing mcd could have done

MCD sold tickets, taking money from punters to provide a service. If that service is not fit for purpose and of merchantable quality, that is MCDs problem. You don't get to evade your obligations under consumer law by blaming your suppliers.

'Ah sure sorry about the horse meat in the steak Mrs Benny, it was the suppliers fault. Nothing Tesco could have done'.

Does that work for you?

Outlaw Pete

Only option now is to Talk to Joe. It was in large part to his show that disgruntled fans got organised enough to complain en masse.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/mcd-to-issue-streisand-refunds-1.812782

But tbf that was entirely MCD's fault and not Babs' so not really like for like.

Can't see refunds here. Just one of those things to be taken on the chin.

You can say I'm out of touch but for me there's no real point in saying you can't go for that now.... she's gone lads, she's gone.

Sugarlumps

We we’re standing, sound was fine. Up in arms with such a short set for €80 bills with a cover thrown in. Also the merchandise sucked.

The highlight was the dude at the front railings. Accompanied with a chick with ass implants, ass got mauled.

SteM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

MCD sold tickets, taking money from punters to provide a service. If that service is not fit for purpose and of merchantable quality, that is MCDs problem. You don't get to evade your obligations under consumer law by blaming your suppliers.

'Ah sure sorry about the horse meat in the steak Mrs Benny, it was the suppliers fault. Nothing Tesco could have done'.

Does that work for you?

Lets leave the crazy about horse meat analogies aside for now.

At what point does the promoter become liable for a bad concert going experience? If the lighting setup isn't what a punter is expecting is that the promoter's fault? If the artist comes on stage and is drunk or hungover is that the promoters fault?

The band employ a sound crew to look after the sound in each venue they play. If the crew doesn't do their job then how can that be the promoters fault? The promoter doesn't the hire sound crew in this case.

As an aside, this is covered quite a well in the U2 biography that Dunphy put years ago iirc. He talks quite a bit about how U2's sound engineers would do detailed checks from all over the venue during soundcheck, even back in the early days. They wanted to make sure that their fans got the right sonic experience where ever they were in the venue.

Infoanon

As has been firmly established the sound quality was very poor - we found it half decent towards the centre of the stage but well below what you would expect.

There was sound problems at the beginning of the Hall & Oates concert in the Olympia back in '14.

Sound for the Doobies and Steely Dan was excellent last night (Monday) with the Doobies stealing the show imho.

Re the comment on the Neil Diamond concert in 3Arena - I don't recall any sound issues and remember a surprisingly good performance.

Ironically the last concert I was at that had sound issues was Jools Holland at Bord Gais when the mics failed at the end of the concert.

AndrewJRenko

SteM wrote: »

At what point does the promoter become liable for a bad concert going experience? If the lighting setup isn't what a punter is expecting is that the promoter's fault? If the artist comes on stage and is drunk or hungover is that the promoters fault?

The band employ a sound crew to look after the sound in each venue they play. If the crew doesn't do their job then how can that be the promoters fault? The promoter doesn't the hire sound crew in this case.

Follow the money.

The punter pays the local promoter.
Local promoter pays the band's manager.
The band's manager pays the band, and the sound crew.

In each of those cases, the payee is responsible to the payer for providing a decent service. In the case of the punter paying the local promoter, that is a consumer/business transaction, and consumer protection laws apply. The service must be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose.

The question of how bad it needs to get for a refund to apply is an interesting one. I can't answer that and I'd guess that you can't answer that. The only person who can answer it is a Small Claims Court judge. If I was a punter that had paid for 2 or maybe 4 tickets at €80 a pop, it could well be worth a €25 court fee to try it out.

One thing is for sure, if the local promoter finds themselves having to issue a big pile of refunds, they will be making damn sure in future that the band's sound crew is competent.

Sleeper12

Outlaw Pete wrote:

But tbf that was entirely MCD's fault and not Babs' so not really like for like.

The late Gerry Ryan got a lot of flack over that too. All week he was telling the ladies to dress up for it. "it'll be the social event of the year". As a result you had some ladies in dresses and heels instead of jeans and wellies

SteM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Follow the money.

The punter pays the local promoter.
Local promoter pays the band's manager.
The band's manager pays the band, and the sound crew.

In each of those cases, the payee is responsible to the payer for providing a decent service. In the case of the punter paying the local promoter, that is a consumer/business transaction, and consumer protection laws apply. The service must be of merchantable quality and fit for purpose.

The question of how bad it needs to get for a refund to apply is an interesting one. I can't answer that and I'd guess that you can't answer that. The only person who can answer it is a Small Claims Court judge. If I was a punter that had paid for 2 or maybe 4 tickets at €80 a pop, it could well be worth a €25 court fee to try it out.

One thing is for sure, if the local promoter finds themselves having to issue a big pile of refunds, they will be making damn sure in future that the band's sound crew is competent.

No, I can't and I never claimed I could. You don't need a small claims judge - you've figured it out already -

MCD sold tickets, taking money from punters to provide a service. If that service is not fit for purpose and of merchantable quality, that is MCDs problem.

By all means let people think they should go to small claims court, you should front them all the money if you're so certain that you're correct that bad sound quality at a gig is a promoter's fault.

Sleeper12

AndrewJRenko wrote:

Follow the money.

Not a penny will be refunded.
Quality of sound is subjective. Plenty of posters felt sound was good. I have not seen a single newspaper pick up on the sound quality story. Their own reporter and photographers don't seem to have noticed

I'm not saying that the sound wasn't bad but trying to prove that is impossible

ionapaul

I got a refund for a gig in the O2 before via the ol' small claims court route - if the promoter thinks there is a chance they will lose I imagine you'll just get a refund ahead of the scheduled court date, as I did. Just add that it wasn't a sound issue in my case, more an overall subpar experience...

peneau

"Plenty of posters felt sound was good"

If anyone at this concert thought the sound was good then they must be tone deaf. I was in section M middle and the sound was awful a dreadful mix, a bit like being at your mates party using his cheap Waltham (1970's 3 in 1 ) stereo cranked up to breaking point Daryl Hall's vocals were almost inaudible in all of this

bullpost

chicorytip wrote: »

Neil Diamond makes an atrocious noise anyway regardless of the quality of the sound system it's directed through.

I thought he made a beautiful noise ?

Zardoz

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I have not seen a single newspaper pick up on the sound quality story. Their own reporter and photographers don't seem to have noticed

The newspaper reviews are always positive,they are basically written by the promoter in return for advertising .

Sleeper12

Zardoz wrote:

The newspaper reviews are always positive,they are basically written by the promoter in return for advertising .

That's not true at all. It makes no difference to the promoter if a rock journalist says that an act of were bad or if the sound was bad. Neil young & crazy horse got terrible reviews. The sound is called into question for every Croke Park gig.
About 45 percent of Bob Dylan showstoppers get terrible reviews.

mickserwillo

100 percent the bands fault. If I remember correctly Robbie Williams left the stage because of bad sound and returned to the country to give a free gig. The professionalism of Hall and Oates has to be questioned. Daryl Hall was quite aware of the sound issue from early on and continued on without giving a fiddlers for the audience. If I knew there was a problem with sound and being the biggest selling pop duo of all time I'd have stopped the show and walked off. Apparently the bluesfest provided the sound engineer. I was smack bang in the middle in the first tier of seats where I have seen multiple acts this year and the sound was absolutely perfect for other acts. There were far too few speakers to cope with the venue in my opinion, I have seen Depeche Mode there multiple times and will see them again this November and I can guarantee the sound will be 100 percent as always. This is by far the worst gig ive seen in years of attending that arena. Absolutely shocking for such a big selling Artist. Ill finish by saying no chance of a refund because MCD are muppets.

smalltalk

I was also in the m section and can confirm that the sound was every bit as bad as the one of the previous posters stated. The sound at some points in the show became just a garbled din ,it wasnt good quality sound or bad quality sound just a din!
We don't go to many gigs and we enjoyed the ocassion overall (love H and O)but I was disappointed with the sound.
I would expect that the technology exists to project nearly pefect sound for any venue also did they not do a sound check or is that old fashioned?

blackwarrior

Just wanted to add my piece.  Three rows back, standing in front of John Oates all night.  Sound on vocals was awful.  While DH isn't a great vocalist, I'm entitled to hear him.  The mic at his piano was only marginally better and overall the sound was completely unacceptable.  I could hear every note Oates played - no problem with that, but Hall was completely dominated by everything else, particularly guitar.  

I'm from Limerick so a night like this costs €160 for 2 tickets, €120 for hotel and another €60+ for food.  That's not much change out of €400 for a concert.  Some night out.  I've emailed MCD but I'm not even expecting a reply.

AndrewJRenko

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Not a penny will be refunded.
Quality of sound is subjective. Plenty of posters felt sound was good. I have not seen a single newspaper pick up on the sound quality story. Their own reporter and photographers don't seem to have noticed

I'm not saying that the sound wasn't bad but trying to prove that is impossible

It would certainly be very difficult to prove. It is not quite subjective, but it is very difficult to prove after the fact.

SteM wrote: »

No, I can't and I never claimed I could. You don't need a small claims judge - you've figured it out already -

By all means let people think they should go to small claims court, you should front them all the money if you're so certain that you're correct that bad sound quality at a gig is a promoter's fault.

I am quite certain that bad sound quality at a gig is the promoter's responsibility.

I am very uncertain about whether a Small Claims Court case would succeed, because of the lack of known precedents and the difficulties in proving the quality either way.

Outlaw Pete

At least the sax sounded fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeAWcdTYmo8

mickserwillo

That sounded as bad as it did on the night. Great vid by the way. The only thing that sounded great was Gandalf on sax