Teacher Shortage?

Corkgirl18

userb wrote: »

4) How are they in the STEM subjects- there was a drive for Maths teachers, what about English?

Physics teachers are low on the ground alright. Very small numbers qualifying in it each year which is not surprising since you can earn a lot more in another field if you've an interest in physics.
Chemistry and biology seem to be doing OK at the moment but I can definitely see a shortage in the next few years.

The PME is going to have a serious effect on numbers qualifying.
It is also incredibly difficult to secure full time work. I was on part time hours for my first year and was earning about €250 per week. Its very difficult to live on that.

userb

Yes agreed with Physics teaching, I think colleges themselves should ultimately look at combining the teaching degree and the BA Arts;

I agree with this part-time work thing in the post-primary this has to be looked at, I just don't know how really they could remedy that but who wants to apply for those jobs and be working them indefinitely it is ridiculous

NufcNavan

And now the Dept. of Education think the solution is to give player ratings on schools. It's like Croke Park deciding the best way to help the crisis in the intercounty game is to show up to a Leitrim game and rate them 'poor' on their website.

Postgrad10

Ooh look who's good and very good. It's like Bruton's naughty or nice list. Absolutely ridiculous.

Noveight

The 2 year PME is farcical and I don't see how it can last.

userb

I was outraged when I heard of this ratings carry on today- Is this definite?

byhookorbycrook

Ratings already occur in good/satisfactory etc on wse reports. I have no problem once there is a consistent standard among inspectors.I know of one school where they were told at feedback "standards should be higher in art" as they weren't a DEIS school (wft??) How can teachers know what standards an inspector is seeking- are all children meant to be "preforming" to some subjective pre conceived notion an individual inspector picks from the air?Or will we be so tied up in ticking boxes decided by someone in an office somewhere for every single child for every single curriculum objective that it will suck the remaining joy out of teaching and learning?

appleb

Hi. I am Deputy Principal in a special school in North County Dublin. We are looking for a teacher. Can guarantee full hour to at least Christmas but could go on all year. If anyone knows of someone, please PM me for further details!

TheDriver

Educationposts is prob your best bet

Seannew1

What is the minister's short-term solution on the lack of teachers apart from training up homemakers? Nothing seems to be occurring.

userb

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Ratings already occur in good/satisfactory etc on wse reports. I have no problem once there is a consistent standard among inspectors.I know of one school where they were told at feedback "standards should be higher in art" as they weren't a DEIS school (wft??) How can teachers know what standards an inspector is seeking- are all children meant to be "preforming" to some subjective pre conceived notion an individual inspector picks from the air?Or will we be so tied up in ticking boxes decided by someone in an office somewhere for every single child for every single curriculum objective that it will suck the remaining joy out of teaching and learning?

But I worry about a consistent standard, I've heard and seen of one inspector singing from one hymn sheet and another from another hymn sheet...
Its going to be tied up into ticking boxes and this thing will become very clinical I'm all for effective teaching-strategies etc but this I fear will be overkill

Dickie10

im in year 2 of the PME, absolute joke ! two days a week a real filling up time course for 11500.
some lectures are interesting but everyone just wants to concentrate on teaching now and getting a good mark in the inspections. im full time farming only for that i wouldnt have a penny. to be honest i will be happy if i just get my money back out of teaching over the next few years. if i got my 12k back over a couple of years i would take it now, might just sub somewhere close and farm full time. had a BA in history and geography and said i would give teaching a go love the job in fairness but you wont make money at it.!

Starkystark

userb wrote: »

I agree with this part-time work thing in the post-primary this has to be looked at, I just don't know how really they could remedy that but who wants to apply for those jobs and be working them indefinitely it is ridiculous

+1 on this! I taught in England and when I described the employment issues to teachers over there - they were in complete shock and surprise at how someone may only get a contract for 4 hours a week and these may be "job-share hours", "secondment", etc. At least over there - your hours are your hours, full stop. This should be the case over here, if you're employed - you're employed on a full time contract.

They also couldn't grasp the idea that you could be employed to teach two (or more) subjects. Most comments regarding this were how much of a logistical nightmare it must be.

userb

Attention really needs to be drawn to this, we were discussing this at school, For example "3 hours of French" advertised. The reality is the ordinary person doesn't know about this and they just assume "oh grand for them: 3 months holidays... "

PowerToWait

userb wrote: »

Attention really needs to be drawn to this, we were discussing this at school, For example "3 hours of French" advertised. The reality is the ordinary person doesn't know about this and they just assume "oh grand for them: 3 months holidays... "

3 months holidays AND they only work 3 hours a week for their gold plated pensions.
This country needs a Maggie Thatcher. Put Michael O'Leary in charge. What about those in the private sector that took a 100% pay cut?

userb

LOL

Corkgirl18

PowerToWait wrote: »

3 months holidays AND they only work 3 hours a week for their gold plated pensions.
This country needs a Maggie Thatcher. Put Michael O'Leary in charge. What about those in the private sector that took a 100% pay cut?

Yep getting little hour contracts is really ideal. Great craic trying to survive on very little money and having zero job security.
If you've a spare 12K I'm sure the teacher training colleges would take you in.

userb

Yeah you have the three months off... to do what with? With what money?

Postgrad10

Three months of poverty in which the bills pile up and then another 5-6 weeks until you get paid if you get the 2nd year of the CID or another equally rubbish contract(if you are that lucky!).

userb

Yeap

AndrewJRenko

PowerToWait wrote: »

3 months holidays AND they only work 3 hours a week for their gold plated pensions.
This country needs a Maggie Thatcher. Put Michael O'Leary in charge. What about those in the private sector that took a 100% pay cut?

Are you really that clueless? Somebody should go slap your civics teacher round a bit as they clearly failed to give you a basic education in the world around you.

For a start, anyone who is working 3 hours a week qualifies for zero pension - zero, zilch, nada, rien - nothing at all, gold plated or otherwise.

And what about those in the public and private sectors that took 100% pay cuts - what's that got to do with the current shortage of teachers?

I guess if we put MOL in charge we could just be cancelling classes for November and December when we find that he forgot to plan for holidays.

bnt

I'm pondering a switch from an IT career (30 years) in to post-primary teaching for the remainder of my working life. I have a recent B.Sc (Hons) in Structural Engineering (UCD), that includes sufficient Maths to meet the curriculum requirements for teaching that (as far as I can tell). I read about the teaching shortage in STEM areas, and so I'm thinking "maybe I can help?"

I've looked in to it, saw the 2-year PME requirement and what it costs, noted that it's full time if you include teaching time (meaning I would have to leave my paying job). I live in Dublin, renting, so there's that - standard grants don't cover a fraction of the cost of living here. I read this thread, where the message seems to be "run away! run away!" ...

So I suppose my question is: am I missing something, or should I just forget about it?

Shaungoater

England had to start paying Stem teachers in college just to meet the demands. We will have to go the same way I feel soon. Serious shortage, ten maths jobs up near me and the etb said one application between them. They are still short eight Irish teachers and have had no applicants. It's now affecting those being recruited by the JCT, with teachers not being allowed go because there are no replacements available. My local school (not etb) is short three Irish, two home Ec, two maths, a woodwork and a spa side since August.

mtoutlemonde

bnt wrote: »

I'm pondering a switch from an IT career (30 years) in to post-primary teaching for the remainder of my working life. I have a recent B.Sc (Hons) in Structural Engineering (UCD), that includes sufficient Maths to meet the curriculum requirements for teaching that (as far as I can tell). I read about the teaching shortage in STEM areas, and so I'm thinking "maybe I can help?"

I've looked in to it, saw the 2-year PME requirement and what it costs, noted that it's full time if you include teaching time (meaning I would have to leave my paying job). I live in Dublin, renting, so there's that - standard grants don't cover a fraction of the cost of living here. I read this thread, where the message seems to be "run away! run away!" ...

So I suppose my question is: am I missing something, or should I just forget about it?

Honestly I'd run. You could be surprised to hear that the Teaching Council probably wouldn't register you for maths. Engineering students have to make up credits for registration. You can check this on their website - look for list of recognised degrees and the subjects a person is permitted to teach. If it's not on the list - you have to do more credits.

There is a new Computer Science curriculum but that will not be delivered in every school for a long time and may never be in some schools due to staff and interest in subject by students/timetabling etc.

Maths teachers are in demand at the moment but it would take you three years until you qualify (I'm presuming you would be starting next September).

In terms of pay - can you take a considerable step back from what you earn at the moment? Check out the ASTI/TUI website and check out the pay scales. Remember that these scales are for 22hours which is nearly impossible for NQTs starting out - although you're in Dublin where you could pick up subbing easily enough.

Why consider teaching now? Have you been in a classroom since your school days? Could you deal with students who don't share the same passion for your subject? Could you deal with behaviour? As above regarding pay? Bits of 'hours'? I don't know if it can be done now with Garda Vetting etc. but work shadowing for a few days might open your eyes?

Have you considered adult education? You don't need a teaching qualification for this? You could also do this in the evening while holding your current role?

Anyway I hope I've given you a few things to think about before taking a change in life. On the upside, teaching is a fantastic job - I love it everyday but it has been a long slog but I don't regret it.

bnt

Thanks for that. I did check the website - that's why I thought I could teach Maths, based on the number and types of Maths courses in my degree.

I forgot to mention that I'm originally from the UK, and when you look at what they're offering there, how they're actively trying to encourage people in to the field, the local situation looks even worse. Normally they have a 3 year residence requirement on funding for study, but I get the impression they might waive that since I'm in the EU and teaching is in demand.

I'm only considering my options at this time, no more than that. This thread makes it sound like I'm an idiot for considering teaching, which is sad: it should be respectable and be a viable option for a career change, not bogged down in red tape.

mtoutlemonde

bnt wrote: »

Thanks for that. I did check the website - that's why I thought I could teach Maths, based on the number and types of Maths courses in my degree.

I forgot to mention that I'm originally from the UK, and when you look at what they're offering there, how they're actively trying to encourage people in to the field, the local situation looks even worse. Normally they have a 3 year residence requirement on funding for study, but I get the impression they might waive that since I'm in the EU and teaching is in demand.

I'm only considering my options at this time, no more than that. This thread makes it sound like I'm an idiot for considering teaching, which is sad: it should be respectable and be a viable option for a career change, not bogged down in red tape.

Did you specifically look up your degree and the subject(s) listed beside it say Maths?? If not, you will have to get your qualifications assessed for registration. The Teaching Council is an extremely difficult organisation to deal with and they are very strict strict regarding qualifications.

The reason the UK offer that is there is an even bigger demand for teachers - anyone in teaching will have a burnout after five years.

I think working in Tesco is looked upon better than teaching in this country. The media are always ready to blacken our teachers and schools. Everyone thinks its a handy number and anyone can do it.

By all means enter the profession if you want to but its good to know what's ahead of you. Best of luck.

r93kaey5p2izun

There are many reports in England suggesting bursaries are ineffective and may exacerbate the problem. The subjects that attract the largest bursaries - Maths, Physics and Languages, have higher drop out rates from the profession than other subjects within the first few years post qualification. 60% of Teach First graduates have left teaching within 5 years.

England has all these desperate schemes to attract and retain teachers but it's not working. Almost one third of NQTs in schools in 2010 had left by 2015. And in 2016 8% of teachers left the profession for reasons other than retirement.

We are just realising now that we are already on this same path. And it looks like our government will follow a similar, failed formula to be seen to address the problems while continuing to import failed policies and initiatives just as England makes moves to abandon them.

I couldn't personally recommend teaching as a career option to new entrants - not to anyone who needs to support themselves in the GDA. Not unless they are already comfortably established in terms of secure accommodation, can rely on being supported by another family member, are happy to struggle on due to aspirational ideas about teaching as a vocation, or have no alternatives due to poor qualifications. I enjoy teaching day to day in the classroom but these rewards do not outweigh the negatives for me and with every indication this is only set to disimprove further, I'm already in the process of moving out of the profession.

PowerToWait

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Are you really that clueless? Somebody should go slap your civics teacher round a bit as they clearly failed to give you a basic education in the world around you.

For a start, anyone who is working 3 hours a week qualifies for zero pension - zero, zilch, nada, rien - nothing at all, gold plated or otherwise.

And what about those in the public and private sectors that took 100% pay cuts - what's that got to do with the current shortage of teachers?

I guess if we put MOL in charge we could just be cancelling classes for November and December when we find that he forgot to plan for holidays.

I felt sure the irony in my post was blatant. It's possible I didn't use enough cliche.

I hold the teaching profession in the highest regard and furthermore I think the treatment of teachers by successive governments, and this government in particular, to be shameful.

AndrewJRenko

PowerToWait wrote: »

I felt sure the irony in my post was blatant. It's possible I didn't use enough cliche.

I hold the teaching profession in the highest regard and furthermore I think the treatment of teachers by successive governments, and this government in particular, to be shameful.

Apologies, it can be hard to tell these days.

Seannew1

Just heard Bruton on radio attributing the shortage of subs to the increased amount of permanent posts and career breaks; is this man actually for serious?? surely a vote of no confidence needs to be lodged against this individual......