Can you seperate the body of work from the Crime

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I think part of that issue is the statute of limitations on those crimes, and his fear that he'd be sued by the people who can no longer be prosecuted.

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Sirsok

I can no longer watch a wrestling match that Chris Benoit participates. Im sure if I put aside the fact he killed his wife and son, I would most certainly enjoy them, he was a fantastic athlete capable of putting in fantastic wrestling matches, but unfortunately I can never look passed what he did.

I was 17 at the time of the murders and it really struck a chord with me.

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The burden of proof isn't on the accused, it's on the accuser. So in essence you do have to prove it happened, although the burden of proof is lower in civil cases. I assume historical allegations would simply add to the difficulties in prosecuting. Given the history of drug issues and abuse that have plagued Feldman throughout his childhood and his adult life, I'd cut him a pass at not acting at the time.

On the back of these threads here lately, I bought his autobiography. It's hard to read, and that's before he even starts on the Hollywood issue. In fact, I put it down halfway through because it was so harrowing. If a fraction of it is true, then that poor guy deserves kudos for still being among us, and anything he did or didn't do to keep himself going is understandable. I hope this latest wave of solidarity amongst the victims of the Hollywood elite enable him to finally exorcise his demons in the most public way possible and give him some satisfaction from being a force for change.

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circadian

I remember seeing recently that Feldman has a gofundme to expose those from his past. I'd imagine you'd need to have deep pockets to take on Hollywood with something like this.

On another note, he said MJ was damaging because he'd take an interest, be good friends and was a great listener. Until he got bored of you, then you were cast aside.

Bellerstring

Seems to me that the choice to watch Spacey's movies is being removed from us.
House of Cards has been cancelled and entertainment journalists are saying that his career is over - no chance of him ever getting a gig again.

His accuser, who was 14, claims Spacey lay on top of him while drunk, 31 years ago.
Spacey has reportedly no memory of this encounter, but no matter.
It has been said.
If you're accused....you're guilty...you're fukked.

fryup

Candie wrote: »

Music seems easier to overlook, probably because I'm not looking at someones face and thinking of their crimes. It's less intrusive when you're not seeing them.

music? i don't know...this was one of my fav xmas songs, now i do not dare play it in public

Tigger

optogirl wrote: »

I used to struggle with Woody Allen because I love his films so much and now Louis CK too.....wish I'd watched his latest show on Netflix before I heard he's a creep....

what did he do?

Tsipras

What 'crime' has Spacey been convicted of?

Joeface

None , The question on the thread is more about if someone in his position was found guilty could you still look at there previous body of work and seperated it from the crime

and to answer the other question.
Woody Allen married Mia Farrow's adopted daughter , and has also been accused on more than one occassion by I think Dylan Farrow of abuse ...could have the childs name wrong .


The Marrying the Adopted Daughter was just wierd as he would have been a father figure

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Tigger

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yeah but at what age did he decide he fancied her ?
very wierd

Too Tough To Die

optogirl wrote: »

Apparentley he's fond of forcing women to watch him wan*

Not apparent at all. The girl he was rumoured to have done it to said:

Speaking to The Village Voice while promoting her upcoming New York tour, Kirkman took the opportunity to clarify her comments. “I thought people would understand the nuance of what I was saying, and they didn’t,” she said. “There are rumors out there that Louis takes his dick out at women. He has never done that to me. I never said he did, I never implied that he did. What I said was, when you hear rumors about someone, and they ask you to go on the road with them, this is what being a woman in comedy is like.”

http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/jen-kirkman-louis-ck-sexual-assault-rumors-1201878243/

optogirl

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Not apparent at all. The girl he was rumoured to have done it to said:



http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/jen-kirkman-louis-ck-sexual-assault-rumors-1201878243/

I don't think she was rumoured to be a victim - rather she said she had heard the rumours about him

greencap

optogirl wrote: »

I used to struggle with Woody Allen because I love his films so much and now Louis CK too.....wish I'd watched his latest show on Netflix before I heard he's a creep....

That's great.
No evidence, just 'I heard'.

That's all you need, a rumor.
Scumbags.

optogirl

greencap wrote: »

That's great.
No evidence, just 'I heard'.

That's all you need, a rumor.
Scumbags.

I'm not saying I 100% know what has gone on. I said I struggled, not that I've burned my DVDS. In Woody Allen's case, the marrying of his wife's daughter is a bit of a red flag coupled with the accusations of his son. Who are you calling a scumbag? I answered a question ffs.

meeeeh

I wouldn't watch programmes that are based on personality of the creep. So people like Saville are out. But Spacey is still an excellent actor, Polanski still great director and I would have no problem watching any of their stuff. I'm also not looking up to sportsmen for moral guidance. As long as tgeir transgressions are not to performance enhancing drugs.

greencap

optogirl wrote: »

I'm not saying I 100% know what has gone on. I said I struggled, not that I've burned my DVDS. In Woody Allen's case, the marrying of his wife's daughter is a bit of a red flag coupled with the accusations of his son. Who are you calling a scumbag? I answered a question ffs.

You. Perpetuating baseless rumors.
That's what you are doing isn't it. Calling people creeps on the grounds of absolutely zero evidence.

'I heard'.

wawaman

siblers wrote: »

What has Louis been up to?

Jedward, Westlife, Boyzone. Heinous crimes

optogirl

greencap wrote: »

You. Perpetuating baseless rumors.
That's what you are doing isn't it. Calling people creeps on the grounds of absolutely zero evidence.

'I heard'.

I'm discussing the question asked in the thread& the various other posters points - I said I heard he's a creep. That is what I heard. You calling me a scumbag is fine though eh?

eviltimeban

Woody Allen is an issue for me, not that I can't watch or enjoy his works, but because people usually just think "oh he's a pedo". I'm very dubious about the claims from Dylan Farrow and Ronan Farrow, as they happened to come out at exactly the same time as the Soon-Yi Previn stuff came out. Almost like the Farrows wanted to get some kind of revenge.

Dylan Farrow was questioned about it and couldn't answer anything remotely.

The fact that Woody Allen is still married to Soon-Yi, who is now 47, is interesting. People seem to forget that. She herself says she never considered him a father figure, just her "mom's boyfriend".

So I'll continue to watch and enjoy his books and writing.

I reckon I'll be the same with Spacey. He wouldn't have been my favourite actor, but I've enjoyed his work, recently with Baby Driver. I've just ordered that movie on DVD and will happily sit down and watch it. What Kevin Spacey did / didn't do to one guy in the 80s has no relevance to me or my life now. If he had a string of accusations from loads of 14 year olds, then that's different. If he was a bit of a sex pest with adult men, well that's his personal life.

greencap

optogirl wrote: »

I'm discussing the question asked in the thread& the various other posters points - I said I heard he's a creep. That is what I heard. You calling me a scumbag is fine though eh?

just cause something is the topic of conversation doesn't give you a carte blanche to infer someone is a creep.

lets discuss rape.

i used to like optogirls da, but then i heard he raped a girl.

what...whats the problem.... im only discussing rape.

lets discuss theft.

i used to leave my office at 5, but then i heard optogirl is a compulsive thief.

what .... whats the problem ..... im only discussing theft.

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optogirl

greencap wrote: »

just cause something is the topic of conversation doesn't give you a carte blanche to infer someone is a creep.

lets discuss rape.

i used to like optogirls da, but then i heard he raped a girl.

what...whats the problem.... im only discussing rape.

lets discuss theft.

i used to leave my office at 5, but then i heard optogirl is a compulsive thief.

what .... whats the problem ..... im only discussing theft.

In fairness my opinion of my Da probably would change if I heard he raped a girl. If rumours were swirling around the office that I was a compulsive thief then I would face them. I didn't pluck his name out of the air, nor did I say he was guilty of anything. There are any amount of threads regarding famous people & what we all think of them. If I said I heard Twink was a cun* would you be so disgusted?

greencap

optogirl wrote: »

In fairness my opinion of my Da probably would change if I heard he raped a girl. If rumours were swirling around the office that I was a compulsive thief then I would face them. I didn't pluck his name out of the air, nor did I say he was guilty of anything. There are any amount of threads regarding famous people & what we all think of them. If I said I heard Twink was a cun* would you be so disgusted?

But your da did rape a girl.

I mean I don't have any evidence or anything, but I did hear it, and now you've heard it. So it must be true.

Like Xenu.

sbsquarepants

optogirl wrote: »

Wasn't Del Naja cleared?

Cleared of what? What have I missed?

Wasn't there also a rumour going around that he was banksy at one stage?

Hercule Poirot

I grew up listening to the auld fellas' Gary Glitter cassettes, used to love his music but once everything about him came out I couldn't listen to them anymore without feeling a sense of weirdness or being a little creeped out - lines like "You wanna be in my gang" took on a whole new meaning and to answer your question I couldn't separate his music from his actions, I probably started to over analyse his lyrics and just felt disgusted

I think it's easier with directors like Polanski because you see their work and not the person so much

Regarding Spacey though - I can't understand why his career is over - a story has been told, an allegation made but there is absolutely no evidence that he did anything. I'm not saying the guy is lying but talk about cancelling his show/his career being over because someone made an allegation that may or may not be true and definitely can't be proved after this length of time shouldn't be the catalyst for his downfall - if others came forward with similar allegations then yes his career should be on hold but at the moment he is innocent, end of story really

optogirl

greencap wrote: »

But your da did rape a girl.

I mean I don't have any evidence or anything, but I did hear it, and now you've heard it. So it must be true.

Like Xenu.

Except that you didn't hear that.....and there certainly weren't articles in newspapers & online media about my Dad, or others in his industry saying they heard about it too.

It seems strange to me that you have singled me out when there are posters all through the thread mentioning things that none of us have proof for....and your creating a scenario in which my Dad is/is rumoured to be a rapist is really quite troubling.

greencap

optogirl wrote: »

Except that you didn't hear that.....and there certainly weren't articles in newspapers & online media about my Dad, or others in his industry saying they heard about it too.

It seems strange to me that you have singled me out when there are posters all through the thread mentioning things that none of us have proof for....and your creating a scenario in which my Dad is/is rumoured to be a rapist is really quite troubling.

so if theres online media articles it would be true?

buzzfeed had an article, case closed.

eviltimeban

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

Regarding Spacey though - I can't understand why his career is over - a story has been told, an allegation made but there is absolutely no evidence that he did anything. I'm not saying the guy is lying but talk about cancelling his show/his career being over because someone made an allegation that may or may not be true and definitely can't be proved after this length of time shouldn't be the catalyst for his downfall - if others came forward with similar allegations then yes his career should be on hold but at the moment he is innocent, end of story really

It's just networks panicking. They'd be pilloried in the media if they went forward with more involvement, same with the Emmy award that was cancelled.

Saying that, everyone thought Mel Gibson was done for. Now they're talking about Lethal Weapon 5.

Three more men have now come forward with accusations - men - and they've pretty much said he was a frisky bastard. So he liked to hit on men. He hasn't been accused of rape or assault.

optogirl

greencap wrote: »

so if theres online media articles it would be true?

buzzfeed had an article, case closed.

I did not say it was true. I said I heard he is a creep. That is what I read. I've also heard that Twink is a thundering Cun*. Neither of those things may be true but they do influence what I think when I think of them. I've never been on buzzfeed in my life. I followed this one and sought out articles about it because I'm a fan.

greencap

optogirl wrote: »

I did not say it was true. I said I heard he is a creep. That is what I read. I've also heard that Twink is a thundering Cun*. Neither of those things may be true but they do influence what I think when I think of them. I've never been on buzzfeed in my life. I followed this one and sought out articles about it because I'm a fan.

so your perception of someone was significantly altered on the grounds of absolutely nothing but baseless online rumor.

optogirl

greencap wrote: »

so your perception of someone was significantly altered on the grounds of absolutely nothing but baseless online rumor.

influenced, as I said, not significantly altered.

splinter65

Tigger wrote: »

what did he do?

Married his wife’s adopted daughter 40 odd years younger than him.
Not exactly the romance of the century.

hatrickpatrick

optogirl wrote: »

influenced, as I said, not significantly altered.

Even influenced is proof enough that individuals involved in allegations shouldn't be named unless and until they are convicted of those allegations.

Apparently the right to one's good name no longer exists in the era of the internet, which is a real shame. Those rights were created for a reason.

greencap

optogirl wrote: »

influenced, as I said, not significantly altered.

well if only slightly influenced then I was wrong and apolgise.

the thing is theres a whole lot of airheads out there who take scant baseless indirect accusations with absolutely no merit to them other than some media hipsters jealous politically driven bitchy inferences, to be something of substance.

im sure thats not your case though.

optogirl

greencap wrote: »

well if only slightly influenced then I was wrong and apolgise.

the thing is theres a whole lot of airheads out there who take scant baseless indirect accusations with absolutely no merit to them other than some media hipsters jealous politically driven bitchy inferences, to be something of substance.

im sure thats not your case though.

I hope it isn't. I don't consider myself an airhead but then, of course I don't. I'm not mentioning LCK in the hope to fuel the rumour, it was in the context of being able to separate him, the man, from him, the artist.

loyatemu

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Cleared of what? What have I missed?

Wasn't there also a rumour going around that he was banksy at one stage?

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2003/apr/11/artsfeatures.popandrock

Tigger

splinter65 wrote: »

Married his wife’s adopted daughter 40 odd years younger than him.
Not exactly the romance of the century.

no not wierdo woody
louis ck

joe stodge

kunst nugget wrote: »

Would you be able to listen to a Lostprophets album?

eh, no.

Hercule Poirot

loyatemu wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2003/apr/11/artsfeatures.popandrock

This is a prime example of the age we live in - stories being leaked to the press, regardless of the actual facts, and people being tried by the media - unless he was charged Del Naja's name shouldn't have been anywhere the media

titan18

RiderOnTheStorm wrote:

It does depend on the crime. Would I go to a viewing of Hitler's paintings? No Will I ever watch a Rolf Harris show again? No If there were genuine medical breakthroughs because of Nazi experiments on concentration camp inmates? No thanks. Watch a Weinstein produced film with Kevin Spacey? Sure...

A lot of hypothermia treatments were created by Nazi's after they tortured people. Also, no Volkswagens, rockets, Adidas, Pumas or Hugo Boss for you then

eviltimeban

splinter65 wrote: »

Married his wife’s adopted daughter 40 odd years younger than him.
Not exactly the romance of the century.

Woody and Mia Farrow were never married. Nor did they live together.

mohawk

kunst nugget wrote: »

Would you be able to listen to a Lostprophets album?

I had an album from them when I was a teenager. The thought of ever listening to them again :mad: no way. What he did cannot be looked past and he has been convicted.


Kevin Spacey always enjoyed him as an actor - I can still watch his stuff I think. If something else comes out then I will reassess.

cloudatlas

I was really looking forward to reading a thread on Kevin Spacey because I wanted to see how the attitudes differed on here when it was male sexual assault as opposed to the 'metoo' thread on here where it has been roundly seen as a negative thing for women speak out using the hash tag, but it's really interesting that there is no thread bar this one.

ArnoldJRimmer

Have about an episode and a half left of the latest season of House of Cards, I'll look past his transgressions until that's done

Capt'n Midnight

titan18 wrote: »

A lot of hypothermia treatments were created by Nazi's after they tortured people. Also, no Volkswagens, rockets, Adidas, Pumas or Hugo Boss for you then

What hypothermia treatments ??

The "research" was unscientific. So any results were meaningless.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199005173222006#t=article

In summary, the basic information essential for documenting an orderly experimental protocol and evaluating the results is not provided. We know enough, however, to conclude that the methods of study were clearly defective.

...
On analysis, the Dachau hypothermia study has all the ingredients of a scientific fraud, and rejection of the data on purely scientific grounds is inevitable.

In an attempt to please Himmler by proving that the growth of the Aryan population could be accelerated through an extension of the childbearing age, Rascher made it known that his wife had given birth to three children in quick succession after turning 48 years old. During her fourth "pregnancy," Mrs. Rascher was arrested for attempting to kidnap an infant. The ensuing investigation disclosed that the other three Rascher children had not been born to Mrs. Rascher but had been bought or abducted. Himmler felt betrayed, and in April 1944 his protégé was arrested. Besides complicity in the kidnapping, Dr. Rascher was accused of financial irregularities, the murder of a German assistant, and scientific fraud. Dr. and Mrs. Rascher were subsequently executed, presumably on Himmler's orders.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

Have about an episode and a half left of the latest season of House of Cards, I'll look past his transgressions until that's done

A man of prinicples, I see!

Ipso

I didn't get a chance to read the whole thread, but was the bible mentioned?
It supposedly forms the basis of many people morality but it's full of ugly stuff.