Fairytale of New York?

retro:electro

I think they should ban Last Christmas. “I gave you my heart but the very next day you gave it away”. It’s insensitive to those awaiting heart transplants.

pleas advice

A good heart these days is hard to find

bnt

retro:electro wrote: »

I hate this song with an inherent passion. It literally fills me with rage.

I mostly managed to avoid this "song" in previous years, but this year they've put Christmas radio on in the office, and now I hate it with a passion too. I'm not really offended by the content, not even the way it seems to celebrate substance abuse and skangerish behaviour. No, I hate it because it's a crappy song all round. The words are doggerel, the singers' voices are harsh, the music is hackneyed cliche straight out of some Dublin tourist trap. :mad:

nthclare

bnt wrote: »

I mostly managed to avoid this "song" in previous years, but this year they've put Christmas radio on in the office, and now I hate it with a passion too. I'm not really offended by the content, not even the way it seems to celebrate substance abuse and skangerish behaviour. No, I hate it because it's a crappy song all round. The words are doggerel, the singers' voices are harsh, the music is hackneyed cliche straight out of some Dublin tourist trap. :mad:

Isn't it based in New York ?

seamus

Meta-offence is the new offence.

Whereas people used to talk about things that were actually outrageous, now we're being outraged by people's outrage. Outrage is outrageous.

It's a bit like Gogglebox really; we're being entertained by watching other people being entertained.

Which is all nice and convenient for the elites of course, since while people are going crazy over something absolutely minor that some nobody has said online, they can do serious things like abuse human rights and invade countries.

And rather than talk about the actual things that are happening, people are arguing over the fact that someone said something about it that they disagree with.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

bnt wrote: »

I mostly managed to avoid this "song" in previous years, but this year they've put Christmas radio on in the office, and now I hate it with a passion too. I'm not really offended by the content, not even the way it seems to celebrate substance abuse and skangerish behaviour.

It doesn't "celebrate" substance abuse -- quite the opposite, in fact. It shows how a couple's lives have been crushed by alcoholism and drug addiction, leading to lost youth and ruined dreams.

retro:electro

Let’s just say it’s not something you’d sing at your wedding.

Franz Von Peppercorn

retro:electro wrote: »

I think they should ban Last Christmas. “I gave you my heart but the very next day you gave it away”. It’s insensitive to those awaiting heart transplants.

Ive always wondered why this group of people meet every year for Christmas. And why wait a year to give your heart away to someone special? You could get up a partner at any time in the year and bring him or her to the Christmas meetup and say “screw you and your dumping me one day after we got together, I’ve got a new lover now so there! (and I’m not weird thinking about this for a year)”.

Plus how does he know there will even be someone special at the party? It’s a big risk.

Because this is confusing I think Last Christmas should be banned.

Franz Von Peppercorn

retro:electro wrote: »

Let’s just say it’s not something you’d sing at your wedding.

Or any Christmas song.

Franz Von Peppercorn

bnt wrote: »

I mostly managed to avoid this "song" in previous years, but this year they've put Christmas radio on in the office, and now I hate it with a passion too. I'm not really offended by the content, not even the way it seems to celebrate substance abuse and skangerish behaviour. No, I hate it because it's a crappy song all round. The words are doggerel, the singers' voices are harsh, the music is hackneyed cliche straight out of some Dublin tourist trap. :mad:

That’s the incorrect opinion on a great song.

Badly Drunk Boy

retro:electro wrote: »

I think they should ban Last Christmas. “I gave you my heart but the very next day you gave it away”. It’s insensitive to those awaiting heart transplants.

You misquoted the song there. It should be “I gev you my heart but the very next day you gev it away”.

Deebles McBeebles

https://socceronsunday.com/article/keane-and-scholes-christmas-duet-slammed-as-transphobic/

sightband

bnt wrote: »

I mostly managed to avoid this "song" in previous years, but this year they've put Christmas radio on in the office, and now I hate it with a passion too. I'm not really offended by the content, not even the way it seems to celebrate substance abuse and skangerish behaviour. No, I hate it because it's a crappy song all round. The words are doggerel, the singers' voices are harsh, the music is hackneyed cliche straight out of some Dublin tourist trap. :mad:

Any thoughts on Ronan Keating’s version then? A vast improvement?

I dunno how anyone can get so upset about a song.

Mint Sauce

Israel Breezy Yankee wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/entertainment/music/ed-power-time-has-come-to-relocate-fairytale-of-new-york-to-that-dark-room-reserved-for-things-that-were-once-acceptable-but-no-longer-are-37606629.html

What a condescending git.

Also, there was 30-plus years to get offended to this extent - why only now?

Such a disingenuous bandwagon. Same with folk who had 28 years to get offended by Apu in The Simpsons but didn't even think about it until someone said to.

I understand gay men finding the term horrible to listen to, and wanting just the word blanked out - but it's the people who aren't gay, didn't care about the word in that song for years, and are now suddenly bothered by it who I find pathetic.

I love too how rap with horrendously violence-glorifying and misogynistic content, while not gonna get played on the radio, is otherwise ok because it's "hip hop culture".

The same as where an ad, or TV show might get half a dozen complants, this fact gets publicised a week later, now it has 100+ complants.

Its now become that people want you to be offended, even where there is nothing to be offended about.

sightband

Thing that I don’t get is the use of the word ****** when she is referring to her partner or ex partner. How can she be calling him a homosexual?

Scott Tenorman

I can see why gay people would be offended by this and would have no issue with the word being beeped out

*shrugs*

Greyfox

Scott Tenorman wrote: »

I can see why gay people would be offended by this and would have no issue with the word being beeped out

Are we going to also beep out the N word in every film and song it appears in? For me the beep it's childish stuff and effects what is by far and away the greatest Christmas song ever

Mint Sauce

Being played on Xmas FM as we speak, and not sensored. Lets hope they get some cop on, and now unban Its Cold Outside.

valoren

If you wrote a book and looked to describe a character in it as a low life dick then an author can use swear words, slurs and stereotypes to convey to the reader that this person is a low life dick. Such is the case with FTONY. As McGowan himself points out in his statement. These are not nice people. They are portrayed as low life's and the offending words are cherry picked to convey as much. If people are singing this song in a pub and putting particular relish behind the offensive lyrics in question then that is not the fault of the author or in this case lyricist. They completely miss the point of the lyric. As for the song itself, it's a case of familiarity breeding contempt for me. You don't hear it from one end of the year to the other and when it get's initially played you realise how good a song it actually is and then it get's played ad nauseum and you find yourself flinching when you hear the opening bars play. Too much of a good thing in a way.

Sonics2k

Greyfox wrote: »

Are we going to also beep out the N word in every film and song it appears in? For me the beep it's childish stuff and effects what is by far and away the greatest Christmas song ever

We do beep the N word in songs played before the watershed. And most radio stations already censor this F word in Fairytale of New York before the watershed, it's been happening for decades.

bnt

sightband wrote: »

I dunno how anyone can get so upset about a song.

Upset might be overstating it, but show me someone who never gets a bit annoyed at anything, and I'll show you someone who doesn't care. I care about music, and I'm certainly not going to apologise for that. :rolleyes:

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

It's funny how people always go after "Fairytale of New York" when Dire Straits' Grammy-winning "Money for Nothing" contains the word faggot not once, but three times.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

sightband wrote: »

I dunno how anyone can get so upset about a song.

It's not about the song. It's about the censorship of artistic expression.

retro:electro

The controversy has been ongoing for years. It’s not a new thing.

The song attracted attention from the start due to some of the language used in its second verse, where MacGowan's character refers to MacColl's character as "an old slut on junk" (heroin), and MacColl responds with a tirade that includes the words "******" and "arse".

When the song was performed on Top of the Pops on its initial release, it was customary for acts to mime to the studio track. The BBC insisted that MacColl's singing of "arse" be replaced with the less offensive "ass", (although as she mimed the word, MacColl slapped the relevant part of her body). The subsequent pronunciation of "last" was also changed to rhyme.

Upon the song's 1991 release, MacColl changed the lyrics further during a live performance on Top of the Pops in January 1992 to, "You're cheap and you're haggard."

When Katie Melua performed the song with The Pogues on CD:UK in December 2005, ITV censored her singing the word "arse", yet left in "******" despite the word being generally deemed more offensive by this time.

BBC Radio 1 reverses "******" ruling hours after initial ban
On 18 December 2007, BBC Radio 1 edited the words "******" and "slut" from the track to "avoid offence". MacColl's mother, Jean, called the ban "too ridiculous", while The Pogues said they found it "amusing." The BBC said, "We are playing an edited version because some members of the audience might find it offensive".[16] Later that evening Radio 1 backed down and said that after a day of criticism from listeners, the band, and MacColl's mother, they had reversed the decision.[17] The unedited version was then played later on that day. Other BBC radio stations, including the traditionally more conservative Radio 2, had continued to play the original version throughout this period, the ban having applied to Radio 1 only. The MTV channels in the UK also removed and scrambled the words "slut", "******" and "arse" from the song.

Gimme A Pound

sightband wrote: »

Thing that I don’t get is the use of the word ****** when she is referring to her partner or ex partner. How can she be calling him a homosexual?

The word is often thrown at heterosexual men as an insult. Like "pussy".

razorblunt

If we're calling for censorship on the N word in movies following on from this, then please be aware that every Quentin Tarantino film will now only be 32 minutes long.
I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, I'm just saying to be aware.

Lux23

Greyfox wrote: »

Are we going to also beep out the N word in every film and song it appears in? For me the beep it's childish stuff and effects what is by far and away the greatest Christmas song ever

The N-word is beeped on the radio or on the music TV channels a lot. And I've heard censored versions of Fairytale as well. Having said that, I think Shane McGowan's explanation made sense.

sightband

Israel Breezy Yankee wrote: »

The word is often thrown at heterosexual men as an insult. Like "pussy".

Yes, between men usually. Not between couples or ex couples to one another in my opinion. It sounds daft. Calling someone a pussy is not comparable, that suggests someone weak or cowardly.

Scott Tenorman

Greyfox wrote: »

Are we going to also beep out the N word in every film and song it appears in? For me the beep it's childish stuff and effects what is by far and away the greatest Christmas song ever

I don't know.
I'm commenting on the topic of thread not engaging in whataboutery

Sir Oxman

sightband wrote: »

Thing that I don’t get is the use of the word ****** when she is referring to her partner or ex partner. How can she be calling him a homosexual?

Indeed.

Poor Uncle Tom

sightband wrote: »

Thing that I don’t get is the use of the word ****** when she is referring to her partner or ex partner. How can she be calling him a homosexual?

It was widely used as a derogatory term for anyone who you thought did you wrong, very similar to calling someone a knacker now.... not everyone did it but it was common.

Icemancometh

Yusuf Embarrassed Rodeo wrote: »

It's funny how people always go after "Fairytale of New York" when Dire Straits' Grammy-winning "Money for Nothing" contains the word faggot not once, but three times.

I haven't heard that song in the radio in years, without the second verse being omitted entirely.

sightband

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

It was widely used as a derogatory term for anyone who you thought did you wrong, very similar to calling someone a knacker now.... not everyone did it but it was common.

was it? where? I grew up in the 70's (in a sh*tehole of an area) and the song was written in 80's. I have never heard it used as anything other than a homophobic insult. I have also googled the sh*te out of the word and anything other than it being a very homophobic insult and directly related to this.

a knacker and tinker, i agree but calling someone a f*ggot for me has only had one meaning.

Steve F

I have to say this......
FONY is overrated and overplayed

IMHO it's not even a good Christmas song. BTW is there an NYPD Choir?

Greg Lake's "I believe in Father Christmas" Now that's what I call a proper Christmas song!

"The peal of a bell,that Christmas tree smell,eyes full of tinsel and fire"
and
"I believe in Father Christmas,I looked to the skies with excited eyes.I woke with a yawn at the first light of dawn,saw him and blew his disguise"
Far superior and not an Arse or f*ggot in sight

whisky_galore

sightband wrote: »

Thing that I don’t get is the use of the word ****** when she is referring to her partner or ex partner. How can she be calling him a homosexual?

Accusing him of not being interested in her anymore, he's more fond of the drink. Brewers droop perhaps, who knows or cares it just rhymes with maggot.

nthclare

sightband wrote: »

was it? where? I grew up in the 70's (in a sh*tehole of an area) and the song was written in 80's. I have never heard it used as anything other than a homophobic insult. I have also googled the sh*te out of the word and anything other than it being a very homophobic insult and directly related to this.

a knacker and tinker, i agree but calling someone a f*ggot for me has only had one meaning.

I remember my grandfather going out collecting faggets, I think they were small stick's for the fire or something.

tuxy

It was still spelt fagg0t and the meaning is a bundle of sticks.

Steve F

F*ggots are a meat dish also....

Laois_Man

I see US television is leaving out the rude bits too!

They're no craic!!

Saoirse Ronan BTW, nice job - reasonably decent singer!

But Fallon does a mean Shane!

fryup

Saoirse pain in the arse Ronan

jeeze that all we need

FTA69

fryup wrote: »

Saoirse pain in the arse Ronan

jeeze that all we need

Funnily enough I’d a load of pints with her five years ago and she’s actually sound out.

As for FONY, I can see why some stations would bleep out the word - they do the same for “n*gger” or “b*tch” or any other sort of word that would be considered a slur or a swear word.

That having been said, as McGowan himself pointed out, the person is a character in a song and that’s how they spoke. There’s literally nothing more to it.

People need to log off and calm down if they think is an important societal issue.

limnam

Steve F wrote: »

IMHO it's not even a good Christmas song. BTW is there an NYPD Choir?

A "christmas" song. A subject based on an overweight bearded old man flying around the globe in a night delivering presents to the worlds good children


and you're concerned there's no NYPD choir.

nthclare

Stick's and stones might break my bone's but names will never hurt me....

Unless you're a snowflake or something.....

sligojoek

Steve F wrote: »

I have to say this......
FONY is overrated and overplayed

IMHO it's not even a good Christmas song. BTW is there an NYPD Choir?

Greg Lake's "I believe in Father Christmas" Now that's what I call a proper Christmas song!

"The peal of a bell,that Christmas tree smell,eyes full of tinsel and fire"
and
"I believe in Father Christmas,I looked to the skies with excited eyes.I woke with a yawn at the first light of dawn,saw him and blew his disguise"
Far superior and not an Arse or f*ggot in sight

No. But there is a thing called poetic licence.

Steve F

sligojoek wrote: »

No. But there is a thing called poetic licence.

Steve F

limnam wrote: »

A "christmas" song. A subject based on an overweight bearded old man flying around the globe in a night delivering presents to the worlds good children


and you're concerned there's no NYPD choir.

Wait a second!! What are you trying to say??? Surely you can't mean????
:eek:

xi5yvm0owc1s2b

Steve F wrote: »

BTW is there an NYPD Choir?

There is not, but there is an NYPD pipe & drums band.

Steve F

Yusuf Embarrassed Rodeo wrote: »

There is not, but there is an NYPD pipe & drums band.

Try making that fit the tune

super_furry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daAG5JfNNFQ

I don't know what everyone's complaining about anyway. If you listen to it closely, it clearly says ‘you’re cheap and you’re haggard’ rather than ‘you cheap lousy ******’. I can’t believe you’ve all got yourself into such a state over an obvious mishearing.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Mincer was another one we'd hear in the midlands back in the day.

I don't think I've ever heard that used outside of Ireland.

The Irish are a fierce race of people for inventing insults.