Homophobic Comments in Work

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

Re British people: it is a fact that they normally score poorly in literacy in language skills. That anti-Irish sentiment that was pervasive in the UK 30 years ago resorting to the inference of Irish people being stupid is ironic. It's not a lazy stereotype it's a statistical irony.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

EndaHonesty

Deleted User wrote: »

That is an example of an analogy that doesn't work.

If Al Porter happened to make a joke about being gay, then it wouldn't be cool to make such a comment as it would be bringing up a stereotype that wasn't alluded to. Same as if Chris Rock was making a general joke about being black, bringing up a stereotype that wasn't mentioned would be a crass and uncalled for.

If Chris Rock was making jokes about loving fried chicken, the it would be very applicable to talk about him liking fried chicken. If Al Porter was making jokes about being sexually promiscuous and trying it on with straight men, then a 'backs to the wall' comment would be justified.

Context and intent are very important

Al Porter's whole routine revolves around him being ready to have sex with any man, gay or straight.

I've seen his act a couple of times.

It's not a stereotype. It's Al Porter making jokes about having sex with any man.

If someone makes a joke about Al Porter being liable to have sex with any man it's not a stereotypical slur.

It's a joke about a comedian's act.

Context and intent are indeed very important...

EndaHonesty

EndaHonesty wrote: »

Al Porter's whole routine revolves around him being ready to have sex with any man, gay or straight.

I've seen his act a couple of times.

It's not a stereotype. It's Al Porter making jokes about having sex with any man.

If someone makes a joke about Al Porter being liable to have sex with any man it's not a stereotypical slur.

It's a joke about a comedian's act.

Context and intent are indeed very important...

I was agreeing with you mate!

EndaHonesty

Deleted User wrote: »

I was agreeing with you mate!

Oops sorry I didn't read your post carefully enough

baby and crumble

Last warning to ALL on thread, stop with the snide remarks and emoji's. If you can't be civil, please don't post.

CPTM

cgcsb wrote: »

Hi all,
Anyway today we were discussing a well known gay celebrity who had been on site recently. One of the guys had done a health and safety induction with this celebrity. The girl says, "Oh XXXX, I d say you were showing him all that with your back to the wall". To which he replied "Oh yes, back to the wall arms around the waist." The other guy interjected and asked the girl "Is he that camp really?" to which she replied "Yes he is, but I like him anyway". Then the second lad said "oh well he's no threat to you"

Maybe this was a joke directed at that specific celebrity though? Maybe they think this celebrity is a bit too touchy-feely with people around them sometimes. Where did you get that the joke was about gay people in general and not just about that person?

Example: There's a few straight lads I know that are weird and think it's hilarious to put their arms around me in professional contexts. Like the coffee queue at work and stuff. If anyone was talking about them, I could make this same joke in some shape or form. More about them though and their tenancies, not about any minority group they might (or might not) be affiliated with.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

cgcsb wrote: »

I'm giving one of the lads and the girl (she ceased being a girl many years ago I stress)

What do you mean by this?

baby and crumble wrote: »

Do you know the meaning of the word "seduce"?

Seduce and force do not share the same meanings.

zoobizoo

Interesting point re "was it about Al or about gay people?"

If Al had just been doing what he does, as in making lewd innuendos towards straight guys, and the guys come back to the office and are all "backs against the wall", it's a lot different to a case for example, a new employee starts, they know that he is gay and they start making "backs to the wall" comments.

CreativeSen

To the OP, I would say nip this in the bud straight away. There are many ways to do it. From my own experience I found what worked best was to casually bring up the fact that I am gay. When talking about plans for the weekend or holidays etc. say that "I am going out for my partners birthday, he is turning 45" or something. Keep it subtle, don't make an issue of it.

Remember, you don't have to come out to be out! You don't owe them the deep personal conversation that you had with your mum and dad. But you do owe them the sincerity of being yourself in their company.

In my view what they said was offensive and stupid. But was it malicious? Would they have said something similar if they knew you are gay? Would they still have thought it if they knew that you are gay?

You can help influence how they act in the short term, you can only help influence how they think in the long term. They may have an unconscious bias and you have a great opportunity to shape their view of people like us. Should you have to do this, no, you should not. But we all still have to do this.

Ultimately, you want to succeed in your job and be accepted for being a great engineer. Be a great gay engineer!

daithi84

If there were derogatory comments made about a race instead of an orientation we wouldn't even be having this conversation, the comments would just be universally labelled inappropriate for the workplace.

jcd5971

baby and crumble wrote:

Joking about the liklihood of rape is NOT "banter". How hard is that to fathom?

Depends on the situation, the parties involved, lots of variables really.

What you say is not banter I could easily consider banter.

I'd agree it's not a workplace appropriate conversation though.

Annasopra

jcd5971 wrote: »

Depends on the situation, the parties involved, lots of variables really.

What you say is not banter I could easily consider banter.

I'd agree it's not a workplace appropriate conversation though.

I dont think it depends on anything at all.

cgcsb

All the ifs and buts and context in the world is just verbal gymnastics for 'phobes. Its wrong end of.

jcd5971

Joeytheparrot wrote:

I dont think it depends on anything at all.

cgcsb wrote:

All the ifs and buts and context in the world is just verbal gymnastics for 'phobes. Its wrong end of.

Personally i agree with you both and as I said it has no place in work.

But my point is that who are any of us to say what is and is not banter inside a group. Obviously this is in work so it's not appropriate, but perhaps these olleagues have a close knit bond forged over many years and their "banter" runs a little of colour. Perhaps they were too comfortable in each other's company and the personal/professional behaviour has bled together.

Then again maybe the are just horrible people.

EndaHonesty

cgcsb wrote: »

All the ifs and buts and context in the world is just verbal gymnastics for 'phobes. Its wrong end of.

So everyone who disagrees with you on this matter is a homophobe?!

cgcsb

EndaHonesty wrote: »

So everyone who disagrees with you on this matter is a homophobe?!

Well yea more less.

EndaHonesty

cgcsb wrote: »

Well yea more less.

Now that really is an offensive comment...

Lock the thread it's pointless engaging with this kind of ignorance.

famagusta

The OP should just grow up, end of!

Tenigate

famagusta wrote: »

The OP should just grow up, end of!

I'm inclined to agree. He could do with a bit more resilience. While he found the comments offensive, most would not.

Sleeper12

I'm not gay but I'm anything but homophobic. I totally support gay rights and same sex marriage.

If your colleagues don't know that you are gay then they aren't trying to offend you. I'm sure if you told them you were gay they would be more sensitive. At least I hope they would.

I can't speak for your female colleague but men tend to say stupid things when they are alone. Anything from dropping the soap in the shower to the ball & chain or she who must be obeyed.

Maybe in years to come we will stop the stupid jokes and using terms like shirt lifters. Having said that there's still fools in most pubs trying to tell Nigre jokes or calling them oil riggers

Dr Turk Turkelton

Right I have got a little bit confused reading this thread but as far as I can understand:
Op works in an office with Al Porter and Chris Rock
Al made a joke that he wants to bang Chris as Chris was eating fried chicken while Al was walking with his back to a wall
Op has taken offence with both of them and is moving to an oil rig.

Have I got this all right?

Tenigate

@Dr Turk Turkelton

You left out the bit about it being bigger than a bread bin.

December2012

I wouldn’t like to hear any comments like that. I’m not lesbian and I don’t tahe offence easy. I just think the generalizing statements and old fashioned banter is crass and unfunny and yep, can be offensive even if it doesn’t refer to me.

However I’m not always in a position to make a stand, Work is one of those situations (thankfully I’m not in that position much any more), but I usually say something like “I don’t find that funny”.

Shuts them up.

Sorry you had to hear that OP.

Annasopra

baby and crumble wrote: »

Mod note: Can I just remind people to read the charter before posting.

This thread is not about whether or not a gay person has the right to be offended or upset by comments that reference homosexuality in a negative manner.

Please refrain for telling people how they should or shouldn't feel, based on how YOU feel.

baby and crumble wrote: »

Enough with the snide remarks and sweeping generalities folks.

baby and crumble wrote: »

Last warning to ALL on thread, stop with the snide remarks and emoji's. If you can't be civil, please don't post.

I have handed a few cards and bans out.

NO MORE ABUSING THE OP.
NO MORE BACK SEAT MODDING.
NO MORE SNIDE REMARKS

Goodshape

A lot of posters here don't realise how difficult it can be to come out to a new group. It's nerve-wracking.

Sure almost everyone has no problem with gays these days but 'almost everyone' isn't everyone and 'no problem' can have various definitions when you pick it apart. Apparently there's even some who still make "bums against the wall" jokes as if it's no big deal!

That's a bad situation when it's a new bunch of potential friends in a casual setting, but maybe you just don't make friends with the ones sharing the homophobic jokes and get on with life.

In a work environment though, you need to see how this isn't acceptable at all. It's not a question of taking offense too easily or not, or even an issue of big HR controlled PC-friendly corporation vs a small office. Homophobic, sexist, racist, etc., "banter" is something you should learn to do without. I mean, you know it's wrong, so why take such glee in being a prick? (Sorry.. I mean, being "edgy").


OP, I'm not sure what the right answer is. I'd probably end up letting this one slide and drop a "my boyfriend...", "this guy I'm seeing...", "Last week in the George...", Or something similar into casual conversation some day soon enough. That's my usual coming out strategy . When that ice is broken you might find it easier next time to say "hey, that's not on" and/or they'll just cop on themselves and might learn to be more respectful now that they've a real live gay in the office

Good luck! I bloody hate having to come out to new colleagues at the best of times!

Annasopra

Goodshape wrote: »

A lot of posters here don't realise how difficult it can be to come out to a new group. It's nerve-wracking.

Sure almost everyone has no problem with gays these days but 'almost everyone' isn't everyone and 'no problem' can have various definitions when you pick it apart. Apparently there's even some who still make "bums against the wall" jokes as if it's no big deal!

That's a bad situation when it's a new bunch of potential friends in a casual setting, but maybe you just don't make friends with the ones sharing the homophobic jokes and get on with life.

In a work environment though, you need to see how this isn't acceptable at all. It's not a question of taking offense too easily or not, or even an issue of big HR controlled PC-friendly corporation vs a small office. Homophobic, sexist, racist, etc., "banter" is something you should learn to do without. I mean, you know it's wrong, so why take such glee in being a prick? (Sorry.. I mean, being "edgy").


OP, I'm not sure what the right answer is. I'd probably end up letting this one slide and drop a "my boyfriend...", "this guy I'm seeing...", "Last week in the George...", Or something similar into casual conversation some day soon enough. That's my usual coming out strategy . When that ice is broken you might find it easier next time to say "hey, that's not on" and/or they'll just cop on themselves and might learn to be more respectful now that they've a real live gay in the office

Good luck! I bloody hate having to come out to new colleagues at the best of times!

Thanks yeah - a lot of this thread has been LGBT people been talked at and not listened to.

clemop

OP I've been a manager for many years and this type of behaviour isn't acceptable, despite some people declaring it 'banter'. The motivation of the people making the comments is irrelevant - they're inappropriate for a work environment and you've every right to be offended, just as you would if the comments were sectarian, racist etc. If this occurs again I'd deal with this straightaway, politely but publicly, and say "Sorry guys, I don't think these comments are appropriate. I'm gay myself and I find them offensive." Difficult I know but if you don't deal with it immediately it becomes more difficult to call it out later. It may well be people are innocently making a joke but once you call it out, they'll be embarrassed and it won't happen again. If it turns out they weren't making a joke then f**k them, bring it to HR and make as much noise as you can.

wordofwarning

OP you have worked there for a year and this appears to be the only 'homophobic' remark said. Sure you can fire off an email to HR. Which will likely alienate the office, who will be ultra conservative about what they say around you for fear of you firing off an email.

IMO if you have an issue with what is said, say it to your co-workers. Involving HR seems a bit extra. Also HR's loyalty is with the company and not you. They don't have your best interests.

Should a corporate environment be tolerant of all? Yes. Should it be an ultra-safe space where everyone needs to think long and hard about everything they say to ensure they don't offend everyone? IMO absolutely not.

Tasteless remarks are made in the most tolerant companies all the time. Whether it is a regular thing is a real issue

Annasopra

In a workplace that I once worked in a colleague photoshopped a penis onto a picture of my face and emailed it around. I was sorry I didnt report it at the time as it was clearly a breach of equality laws.

Jokes like this are more of a grey area though, however if the jokes were directed at you OP or about you then HR would have to step in as this could be found to be harassment and a breach of the employment equality acts.

I think - there have been some good suggestions in here and here are a few options I would consider

1 Pull them aside 1 by 1 and say - I felt uncomfortable with those remarks
2 Come out to them nonchalantly - My boyfriend said X the other day
3 Say nothing - if it happens again - Join the converstaion and tell them you dont like it because you are gay

If you did Option 1,2 or 3 of course and these "jokes" continued - I would at that stage complain to HR. I wouldnt personally complain to HR right now.

Annasopra

wordofwarning wrote: »

OP you have worked there for a year and this appears to be the only 'homophobic' remark said.

In this office....

Not sure why you are using '.....' to suggest there was no homophobia though. "Backs to the wall" is clearly a homophobic remark suggesting all gay men are sex attackers.

listermint

There is a certain amount of irony here where the OP deems it phobic for anyone to disagree with his view point. He found a situation where he felt offended by others due to a joke about his person or being but then the OP goes on to make his own offensive remark later on in the thread about the intelligence of British people and dressing it up as some statistical analysis.

I guess my point is one person's offense is always another persons joke. Everyone has their own insecurities or things they take lightly or don't take. Lightly and it's ironic that the OP here isn't immune to offending people themselves.


The thread is like a personal request for a cocoon but not be subject to the same standards themselves.


That's how it appears.

Sleeper12

Joeytheparrot wrote:

Not sure why you are using '.....' to suggest there was no homophobia though. "Backs to the wall" is clearly a homophobic remark suggesting all gay men are sex attackers.

Definition of homophobia. :irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

I think their comments aren't tasteful but I don't think homophobic. Most men talk like this at some point. Many have gay friends so not homophobic. I know guys that might make comments like this yet voted for same sex marriage.

EndaHonesty

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

In this office....

Not sure why you are using '.....' to suggest there was no homophobia though. "Backs to the wall" is clearly a homophobic remark suggesting all gay men are sex attackers.

They were talking about a specific person. It's not homophobia.

Annasopra

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Definition of homophobia. :irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals.

I think their comments aren't tasteful but I don't think homophobic. Most men talk like this at some point. Many have gay friends so not homophobic. I know guys that might make comments like this yet voted for same sex marriage.

How patronising.... Telling LGBT people what homophobia is. "Backs to the walls" is a homophobic comment. It is complete and utter absurd nonsense to suggest it isn't.

Annasopra

EndaHonesty wrote: »

They were talking about a specific person. It's not homophobia.

This is just utter absurd bullshít. "Backs to the wall" is a homophobic comment. End. Of. Story.

Manion

A work place is not a pub, we have to be there. I bit of empathy towards colleague goes a long way.

listermint

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

How patronising.... Telling LGBT people what homophobia is. "Backs to the walls" is a homophobic comment. It is complete and utter absurd nonsense to suggest it isn't.

But hasn't panty bliss said he is homophobic?

Where is the line drawn.

Its poor humor, but the mad part is one gay persons poor humor is another gay person's joke.

Everyone is different and has different notions of offense. Blanket think doesn't really work.

I guess we don't know of these folks would have made the comment if they were aware the OP is gay just like they may not have made a red haired joke if there was a red haired person sitting over the partition.

EndaHonesty

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This is just utter absurd bullsh "Backs to the wall" is a homophobic comment. End. Of. Story.

You're a mod on this forum and you're behaving like this?!

Wind. Your. Neck. In.

eviltwin

Could this be more of a dig at the man himself rather than the entire gay community?

Annasopra

Closed. Thread just being continuously trolled and forum charter continuously broken.