Are we ready for a terrorist attack?

Stephen Strange

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Does anyone know how many ambulances are active in Dublin at the one time? Last time I read about this i'm fairly certain the number was 4 for the whole 4 local authorities. Not 100% on it but I remember being very surprised by the figure (and worried in terms of a major incident)

Last I heard there were 13 Dublin Fire Brigade Ambulances, plus whatever amount of National Ambulance Service ambulances. Add in that all dfb firefighters are also paramedics, so can respond in fire engines to administer aid.

Edit: Google tells me its 12 dfb ambulances, with 20 total.

Mint Sauce

No. People say we should be well prepared, what with the IRA and the Troubles. But todays terrorists are a new bred, and dont give two hoots about your creed, colour, or background. The IRA, as Patrick Keilty once put it, were the gentleman bomber. They told you were the bomb was, and their main aim was disruption. Today, its death and destruction.

Harry Palmr

ToddyDoody wrote: »

Once the damage is done, then we'll be ready.

For example, we'll stockpile the salt the next Winter if a deep freeze occurs this Winter.

The salt for the big winter of 2011 is still in warehouses I expect.

Berserker

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The salt for the big winter of 2011 is still in warehouses I expect.

Are those iodine tablets still knocking about?

HONKEY TONK

For people saying we are not prepared. What exactly are you expecting In preparation?

Sam Quentin

Well if a terrorist just stands there after ploughing into dozens of people in a lorry waving 2 fake guns around... Then I'm sure the Irish Gardaí will be ready for that. All across the World people like the 2 guys you speak about go on the run some are captured there and then,some hours later maybe days.. And some are never found.... So like you know,, is anyone ever prepared????

XsApollo

Veda Purring Stepbrother wrote: »

The most dangerous weapon is the ignorance of the public.

Are you calling me ignorant? :-)

branie2

XsApollo wrote: »

Are you calling me ignorant? :-)

All right! All right! Calm down! Calm down!

weldoninhio

sugarman wrote: »

You have to laugh at the people complaining about how we're unprepared because it took the AGS 7hrs to catch one lad.

Well, take the Barcelona attacks for one



4 whole days. Same situation, 1 lad escapes hundreds of armed police from the middle of the city center, who unlike here were actively patrolling the main street of the city at the time of the incident.

The question isn't "Are we ready to catch a terrorist straight away if there is an attack here" though. So your post is pointless. The question is are we ready for an attack.

I don't think we are. Using Dublin as an example. If it was even a small attack, the hospitals would be over-run, the city would grind to a halt, creating bottlenecks of people which could potentially be secondary targets. If there is a crash on a main road in the city centre it causes chaos.

Zebra3

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Yup, we’ve a long history of ignoring state terrorism against Irish citizens.

Oh, the state didn't ignore terrorism against Irish citizens, it colluded in it.

AGS did a great job in rounding up women for the RC church's gulags.

All with the support of the terrorists running FF, FG and Labour.

donegaLroad

Muahahaha wrote: »

These guys are our first line of defence against any terrorist attack which is far more likely now to come from a lone wolf with a gun

A lone wolf with a van, you mean.. that ups the ante a bit for the bad guys.

jmayo

super_furry wrote: »

You can't be 'ready' for a terrorist attack especially the likes where someone drives a vehicle into a crowd but I think people are massively underestimating the level of anti-terrorism expertise in this country.

What fooking expertise has our Garda or Army in dealing with islamic terrorism ?
Are they even the ones monitoring Clnskeagh ?
I would say No.
We are no doubt relying on the Americans and Brits to fill us in on some of our islamic guests, just like we rely on the Brits to intercept an aerial threat.
And as I and others have stated we might have been good at dealing with our own home grown terrorists in the 70s, 80s and 90s but a lot of that human knowledge has been lost due to retirement.

But nevermind the intelligence, we are not in any way prepared for an actual attack.
How long will it take armed Gardaí to arrive on scene, nevermind the hogwash about the ARW.
How long was it before Garda arrived at the hotel shootup ?

And then as someone else mentioned do we even have the medical personnel and equipment to deal with possibly a hundred odd casualties at any one time ?

FionnK86 wrote: »

Money speaks.

Everyone wants a slice of the pie, would rather see healthcare and the nurses get the pay they deserve then pump money into the FCA.

Who said the FCA ?
Queue one of the sacred cows, the nurses.
You forgot the firemen.
I do notice that Gardare no longer referenced as one of the sacred cows, might it have something to do with fact they are seen as inept and corrupt ?

topper75

Deleted User wrote: »

I mean, we've dealt with terrorism for... what... 50 years? I'm pretty certain we're used to it.

I think you maybe referring to a centrally orchestrated campaign of advance warning bombs and security forces targetting.

I think the terrorism of today that the OP fears is more lone wolf ideological-inspired attacks on random urban civilian targets where the MO focuses on maximum human casualties.

TLDR - no, we are not ready.

kippy

jmayo wrote: »

What fooking expertise has our Garda or Army in dealing with islamic terrorism ?
Are they even the ones monitoring Clnskeagh ?
I would say No.
We are no doubt relying on the Americans and Brits to fill us in on some of our islamic guests, just like we rely on the Brits to intercept an aerial threat.
And as I and others have stated we might have been good at dealing with our own home grown terrorists in the 70s, 80s and 90s but a lot of that human knowledge has been lost due to retirement.

But nevermind the intelligence, we are not in any way prepared for an actual attack.
How long will it take armed Gardaí to arrive on scene, nevermind the hogwash about the ARW.
How long was it before Garda arrived at the hotel shootup ?

And then as someone else mentioned do we even have the medical personnel and equipment to deal with possibly a hundred odd casualties at any one time ?



Who said the FCA ?
Queue one of the sacred cows, the nurses.
You forgot the firemen.
I do notice that Gardare no longer referenced as one of the sacred cows, might it have something to do with fact they are seen as inept and corrupt ?

How do you suggest the country gets ready then?

Sue Pa Key Pa

We're not prepared for an inch of snow when it is forecast a week in advance, let alone a terror attack

Barry Badrinath

While I do agree that we may not be ready for all scenarios, the State security services are not as useless as you like to make out. It doesnt matter how well trained or equipped we are, the response time and medical treatment are the main issues that need to be addressed.

jmayo wrote: »

What fooking expertise has our Garda or Army in dealing with islamic terrorism ?

Islamic terrorism is a misnomer, terrorism is terrorism. The same responses are applied.

Tbh, the bog standard Irish soldier is equipped and trained to deal with this type of scenario. Its what they train to do from day 1.

Everything from conventional, guerilla and asymetric warfare, small and large scale offensive and defensive combat operations, CBRN training, public order (riot control), counter IED training, medical training (military first responder to include battlefield first aid), cultural awareness, urban warfare, unarmed combat, weapon capability identification and appropriate use of force needed in any given situation. Plus a whole lot more. Thats just the basics for Infantry guys, not including any specialist or Corps training.

Most people like to make jokes and laugh at the Defence Forces and thats fine, sure they dont do anything for you so its understandable.

Overseas service is also a big joke to people. To us, you may train for 6 months for any scenario in an overseas operational environment. It has its cushy days and it has its busy days. The main thing is, you are trained, you are equipped and you are ready to face whatever it is you will be required to face but its all centered around aggressive armed threats.

We spend our time in the Balkans, Africa and the Middle East. Islamists, fundamentalists, rebels, bandits, warlords, war criminals......you name it.

We have experienced soldiers on standby around the country 24/7/365. Ones that have the capability and knowledge to react to these events. The request just has to go in and the DF can assist AGS.

Will it happen? Probably not.

jmayo wrote: »

Are they even the ones monitoring Clnskeagh ?
I would say No

Just because you do not have any knowledge on AGS operations does not make the above true. You asked and answered your own question with little or no knowledge, worst way to try and win your own argument.

jmayo wrote: »

We are no doubt relying on the Americans and Brits to fill us in on some of our islamic guests, just like we rely on the Brits to intercept an aerial threat.

Thats called information sharing...quite standard. The door swings both ways. Air defence? We dont have it because the Defence budget is remarkably low. To procure, train and maintain capable air assets would cost a substantial amount of money. Empty your pockets there jmayo. Also the UK are defending their own airspace, tactically, it makes sense to also secure ours.

jmayo wrote: »

And as I and others have stated we might have been good at dealing with our own home grown terrorists in the 70s, 80s and 90s but a lot of that human knowledge has been lost due to retirement.

Not true. Knowledge doesnt just evaporate. It is passed down by lessons learned, evolving training and syllabus.

jmayo wrote: »

But nevermind the intelligence, we are not in any way prepared for an actual attack.

Depends on the attack type, location and appropriate response needed. Again, you have no operational knowledge or experience of these things. Your ignorance again does not prove your argument to be true.

jmayo wrote: »

How long will it take armed Gardaí to arrive on scene, nevermind the hogwash about the ARW.
How long was it before Garda arrived at the hotel shootup ?

How long is a piece of string argument. Again, lessons have been learned about AGS response times. Theres nothing to say that they wont be 1 minute or 20 minutes away the next time. Depends where it happens.

The only solution is to have 200,000 extra armed AGS pers standing at every corner in Ireland.

Also, the response times in the UK have been good because they ARE ready but thats because they have been hit more than once and their Govt is proactive...not like ours.

It should also be noted that members of the SAS were in police uniforms responding to some of these attacks.

jmayo wrote: »

And then as someone else mentioned do we even have the medical personnel and equipment to deal with possibly a hundred odd casualties at any one time ?

100% agree here.

jmayo

Forgive me for being sceptical.

No matter how you swing it, islamist terrorism is a whole different threat to our usual homegrown variety.
Chances are you can get a republican or loyalist terrorist to surrender, but what are the chances of getting an islamist who wants to seek martyrdom and his 72 virgins to actually surrender ?
They also use the most mundane of items to stage devastating attacks.

We have recently learned that a lot of the stats from the AGS were pure fiction.
We have over last few years learned that there was corruption, or at least very favourable treatment for those connected to AGS members, and a wholesale organised targeting of anyone that whistle blew on the practices.

We have also had a number of high profile cases that have made our Gardand justice service look like inept muppets.

We also learned that it appears our Air corps didn't have the staff to operate certain services at night.
Also I have come across a totally inflated arrogant opinion of themselves from that arm of the DF which would not inspire confidence.

I can not speak for the Army as I have never had any real dealing with them, except having knowledge from ex servicemen who were in the very frontline in the fight against terrorists in the distant past.

So forgive me for doubting how rosey a picture you paint of our capabilities.

You laud the overseas operations carried out by the DF, and I will admit they have been quite good and successful.

But they are for the vast majority of cases in a peace keeping role and not in an offensive confrontational role.
That would be a concern.

And if you look back at my posting history you will find somewhere in a debate I disagreed with idea of ever purchasing aircraft suitable for intercept roles and proposed a bigger and more advanced helicopter arm.
There is no way in hell we could finance advanced fighter aircraft either in straight up purchase or ongoing operations.

I would argue most of the issues with the state of DF are down to finance and how poorly funded it has been for decades.
Maybe if there is a major attack then someone in government will get their finger out of their ar** and finally do something about it.

As for Kippy's question on ideas on how to deal with it.

First off immediate deportation of any visitor (migrant, refugee, immigrant) propagating ultra islamist views or having links to islamist organisations.
No importation of any individual of unknown and unverifiable providence.

Expansion of Air Corp and AGS helicopter service.
Expansion of ARW with dedicated air support.
Not sure if this is there at moment ?
Perhaps our latest knowledgeable poster can clarify ?

Expansion of AGS ARU units.
Expansion of paramedics and ambulances.
Expansion of Medevac capabilites with dedicated non military type aircraft based strategically around the country and not just one in Athlone.

All of this though is a bit wasted unless we sort our A&E and emergency response capabilities.
It is not much use if our security services respond in a timely manner, but half the victims are stuck on trolleys in all already overcrowded A&E with not enough staff or ambulances cannot return to scene because they have nowhere to drop patients.