D&D Subforum / Pen & Paper RPG Discussion Thread

Banjo

Fourier was very specific. The character will not get XP for the dungeon if they do not encounter a hazard. You can't clear the dungeon, leave all the gold, go back to the town to pick up waifs and strays, then go in and loot and expect the level 1s to come out level 5s.

(This is why we needed the Sleigh - Bandy didn't want to go back, OG/Elin couldn't benenfit from it and none of the rest of the characters have a believable motivation for wanting to recover the body of Vergedain's avatar. And also, CHRISTMAS!!!)

Necro

sKeith wrote: »

fourier explained it way early on. they xp for the dungeons gets higher each time, and the xp from the dungeon will be enough to bring the player up to 1 level lower than the rest of the party.

They have to complete at least one challenge within the complex though.

So for example, Molly, Robyn's and OldGoat's new characters joined us down the pit.

We left so they get nada.

We stay, go visit The Judge, they get a portion of XP.

Would be lowered a bit for us as well though as it's only a certain amount of XP per dungeon...

sKeith

as a example

XP: 47600

was shared betewwn 5 people from last dungeon, molly or og had a character ready, and 4 introed that character before we left dungeon, that character would have gotten around 1/6 of that, lets say 7000xp. see what level that'd bring most classes up to.

sKeith

Fourier wrote: »

Great. Cast now is:

Necrominus
Lord TSC
Banjo (Fighter)
Mollyb60 (Thief)
OldGoat
The Soup King (Halfling)
Digital Solitude (Cleric)

We actually have as many players as classes so we could have one each (missing Magic-User, Dwarf and Elf). However pick what you want, doesn't matter if we have two of one of them.

Character Death:
As I mentioned 1st edition is quite lethal, so there is a good chance your character will die. "Back in the day" there were several ways of dealing with this. My preference is to get you playing again as quick as possible. Hence if your character dies, I won't be going the route of having you wait till we get back to town to meet your new character in the tavern. I'm going to go with two options:

Your new character turns up in the dungeon. e.g. he came to the dungeon the day before and got trapped in a vampire's crypt and hey look poor old Greg's armour fits him perfectly.
Or if you hire retainers (I'll get to them in detail later) who are specialists you pick up in town, they pick up their employers gear realising it's time to get that dungeon treasure themselves.

Some find this not as realistic as the "wait until the next tavern" approach, e.g. why would a guy you employed commit his life to finding the treasure/what are the odds of finding another adventurer. However to my mind D&D is not a game with a serious tone (unlike let's say Vampire: The Masquerade), I mean the monsters include a T Rex (p.100) and an Owl Bear (p.91). I'd just prefer to get you playing again. And the threat of dying drives most of the game, so I don't want to remove it.
Also, I mean the retainers did agree to go into the dungeon, they must be kind of brave.

The biggest problem of course, is the loss of levels. However if you take a Cleric at level 6, to get him to level 7 takes 25,000 XP. However that's also the amount needed to go from Level 1 to Level 6. So if I send the party off to a dungeon that gets you that much XP and you die, but your new character survives to the end, they'll get 25,000. So at the end they'll be back at their old level, just one behind the rest of the party and in the next adventure they'll probably catch up. So at max you're one level behind at the end of an adventure. The XP system is designed like this on purpose. This also means dying at Level 1 is grand (nothing to lose), so you can get use to the lethality and being careful at this level.

As for your equipment, armour and weapons, well it'll be on the body of your old character, so you just need to pick it up. (Although it might have gotten caught up in a spider's web etc just for a bit of a challenge).

How does this sound to all of you?

Note: Given the above danger in 1st edition you tend not to go as deep into the character's backstory as in later editions.

.

sKeith

oh, i may have misinterpreted, u enter dungeon at lvl 1, but if you survive the dungeon in weakling state, afterwards, you get the XP to bring you 1 lvl behind everybody else

OldGoat

No shortcuts, it makes the challenge of the game too easy. One of the most interesting aspects of the gameplay is how the party will work with members of differing levels.

Also it gives Molly, Robyn and I an opportunity to sidequest and develop our characters a bit.
#TeamDayWalkers

sKeith

Banjo wrote: »

Fourier was very specific. The character will not get XP for the dungeon if they do not encounter a hazard. You can't clear the dungeon, leave all the gold, go back to the town to pick up waifs and strays, then go in and loot and expect the level 1s to come out level 5s.

(This is why we needed the Sleigh - Bandy didn't want to go back, OG/Elin couldn't benenfit from it and none of the rest of the characters have a believable motivation for wanting to recover the body of Vergedain's avatar. And also, CHRISTMAS!!!)

in tis example, the person who exits the dungeon with no gold gets 0 XP for the dungeon. GP translates to XP on completion of dungeon, you dont get XP for what isnt brought out.

Mollyb60

The problem is that there won't be (we hope) much danger if we get back to the dwarf city. Unless the hoarde follows us down there and attacks. So there won't be much chance for us to gain much XP unless we deliberately go looking for it. I'm sure Four will have a plan for this though.

I'm gonna be a thief again FWIW.

Necro

Mollyb60 wrote: »

The problem is that there won't be (we hope) much danger if we get back to the dwarf city. Unless the hoarde follows us down there and attacks. So there won't be much chance for us to gain much XP unless we deliberately go looking for it. I'm sure Four will have a plan for this though.

I'm gonna be a thief again FWIW.

Are you in prison currently? You might have valuable information and we have to break you out :pac::pac::pac:

Mollyb60

Hmm I had planned to start having just escaped from prison but with my manacles still attached. Perhaps that would be better though. I have no clue what would motivate the group to attempt to break me out though!

OldGoat

Necrominus wrote: »

Are you in prison currently? You might have valuable information and we have to break you out :pac::pac::pac:

Just cos someone is wearing manacles doesn't mean they are in prison.
...
Stop judging me! It's...a foible.

Necro

Mollyb60 wrote: »

Hmm I had planned to start having just escaped from prison but with my manacles still attached. Perhaps that would be better though. I have no clue what would motivate the group to attempt to break me out though!

Leave that to Four, I'm sure he can come up with some reason....

Fourier

Okay, I'm going to introduce the new characters and start Act II.

Elin is being kept in ghost form for now, but you guys won't know what happened afterward. Always better to keep a possible plot thread.

Necro

Levels of excitement increasing....

Fourier

sKeith wrote: »

I think we need to do more wilderness encounters, we jumped straight from one end boss to the next by taking the dragon ride. i'd like more of the multiple baddies like the first wilderness encounter, and guess we probably missed a good few by skipping over it. oh, and loving every second of it anyways.

This is a good point sKeith. I've taken it into account. You guys went from brutal to brutal over the last few nights. Wilderness can break up and serve to highlight the high tension situations.

Fourier

Banjo wrote: »

The lethality felt extreme - someone nearly died every night we put any serious time in. But it was ****ing awesome. I wouldn't ramp it up. Especially as we're down 2 heads and og has to start again. As the plot takes us away from Sanderjarn, we need Bandylegs to require less maintenance.

Dungeonwise, we tend not to explore much before we lose limbs and run away. I don't think bigger is an option - it's more work for you but it will never see the light of day

I've made a few changes to the bigger dungeons, so they have low danger exploratory sections and high danger areas. Not that ye'll know which is which!

And don't worry about the work for me, it's half the fun!

Mollyb60

Fourier wrote: »

Okay, I'm going to introduce the new characters and start Act II.

Elin is being kept in ghost form for now, but you guys won't know what happened afterward. Always better to keep a possible plot thread.

Yay! So shall I add my new character to the Character sheet thread or do you want me to hang on and keep playing Elin? Or should I multitask?

Fourier

Mollyb60 wrote: »

Yay! So shall I add my new character to the Character sheet thread or do you want me to hang on and keep playing Elin? Or should I multitask?

New character, Elin will work her foul schemes in the background for now.

Fourier

Regarding summary posts, they're easy to do. Would you like them at the start of a scene or every day or so?

Necro

Fourier wrote: »

Regarding summary posts, they're easy to do. Would you like them at the start of a scene or every day or so?

I suppose anytime a major event happens might be best to post an update in the aftermath?

robyntmorton

In this, I’d say that you are better off with a longer summary at the top of the scene, with a shorter status update each day or 2, near bullet pointed of who is where, doing what, and any serious points that have changed.

OldGoat

Fourier wrote: »

Regarding summary posts, they're easy to do. Would you like them at the start of a scene or every day or so?

Start of each act. Just as a placeholder.

Banjo

Necrominus wrote: »

Would be lowered a bit for us as well though as it's only a certain amount of XP per dungeon...

This bit really pisses me off.
Moy and Othegre tend to be on the bottom end of the scale. It's fair in so far as the big earners are the guys doing massive damage to the bad guys, but then.... that's what they're for! They're fighters! In terms of contributing, we can heal - so can Bandy. We can turn undead - so can Bandy. We can do a pitiful amount of damage - Bandy is a ****ing beast with a pool of hit points so deep you can drown an undead demigod in it. So I sometimes feel like I'm just along for the ride. And bear in mind, I can fly and control wolf packs with my mind, have a couple of tricks I haven't shown you yet (or do I? heh heh heh) and turn into a cloud under extreme duress. Moy has a stick. Must be driving Digi nuts!

(it may be down to Ekbard's propensity to strip to his underpants and carry more treasure out, but I want my rant!)

I'm sure it balances - I think Clerics get an easier ride in terms of XP required to level up, and like Magic Users they become more powerful over time (if not as stupidly powerful as MUs!) but it rankles occasionally when you see the likes of Ekbard and Xanthea cleaving endless files of baddies in two with their multiple attacks and blocks, and levelling up to get more bonuses to those attacks.

Then again, we're alive and Xanthea's not so I guess that balances too

robyntmorton

I never got multiple attacks, and I was only a lv 2 with 6 hp when I died, so it’s not all sunshine and flowers for fighters :P

Necro

Banjo wrote: »

This bit really pisses me off.
Moy and Othegre tend to be on the bottom end of the scale. It's fair in so far as the big earners are the guys doing massive damage to the bad guys, but then.... that's what they're for! They're fighters! In terms of contributing, we can heal - so can Bandy. We can turn undead - so can Bandy. We can do a pitiful amount of damage - Bandy is a ****ing beast with a pool of hit points so deep you can drown an undead demigod in it. So I sometimes feel like I'm just along for the ride. And bear in mind, I can fly and control wolf packs with my mind, have a couple of tricks I haven't shown you yet (or do I? heh heh heh) and turn into a cloud under extreme duress. Moy has a stick. Must be driving Digi nuts!

(it may be down to Ekbard's propensity to strip to his underpants and carry more treasure out, but I want my rant!)

I'm sure it balances - I think Clerics get an easier ride in terms of XP required to level up, and like Magic Users they become more powerful over time (if not as stupidly powerful as MUs!) but it rankles occasionally when you see the likes of Ekbard and Xanthea cleaving endless files of baddies in two with their multiple attacks and blocks, and levelling up to get more bonuses to those attacks.

Then again, we're alive and Xanthea's not so I guess that balances too

I meant it lowered the pool with extra players added. Didn't mean to annoy you :(

I am a beast though. A robotic, dwarven beast.

Ekbard is the mofo who cleaves people in half.

I think Four said though a lot of my XP comes primarily from story related stuff as opposed to battle. That's the way it levels out imo.

Fourier

Banjo wrote: »

This bit really pisses me off.
Moy and Othegre tend to be on the bottom end of the scale. It's fair in so far as the big earners are the guys doing massive damage to the bad guys, but then.... that's what they're for! They're fighters! In terms of contributing, we can heal - so can Bandy. We can turn undead - so can Bandy. We can do a pitiful amount of damage - Bandy is a ****ing beast with a pool of hit points so deep you can drown an undead demigod in it. So I sometimes feel like I'm just along for the ride. And bear in mind, I can fly and control wolf packs with my mind, have a couple of tricks I haven't shown you yet (or do I? heh heh heh) and turn into a cloud under extreme duress. Moy has a stick. Must be driving Digi nuts!

Bandy has one major restriction as a Cleric. He can only use the non-destructive spells. I would look into the "reversed" spells available to you. For example "Cure Light Wounds" can be inverted to "Cause Light Wounds". There are several such spells.

See p.19 of the rules, Clerics benefit even more from reverse spells than MUs and Elves. Reverse spells get more powerful as the levels increase. Eventually you probably won't physically fight.

See spells with (reversible) beside them. Bandy does not have access to these reversed versions.

Banjo

Necrominus wrote: »

I meant it lowered the pool with extra players added. Didn't mean to annoy you :(

It's not you, didn't mean to give that impression, its when you see the XP table and think
"I killed a ****ing god and died and was reborn and scored a tonne of loot out of the evilist IKEA flat pack ever built. Saeros got a free rocket cycle. Why are we getting the same XP???"
It's childish, and it's selfish, and it's narrow minded, and it's ungrateful and I'm starting to see how much of myself has bled into my character

Fourier wrote: »

Bandy has one major restriction as a Cleric. He can only use the non-destructive spells. I would look into the "reversed" spells available to you. For example "Cure Light Wounds" can be inverted to "Cause Light Wounds". There are several such spells.

See p.19 of the rules, Clerics benefit even more from reverse spells than MUs and Elves. Reverse spells get more powerful as the levels increase. Eventually you probably won't physically fight.

See spells with (reversible) beside them. Bandy does not have access to these reversed versions.

I was looking at that last night actually, but I was trying to figure out whether or not I should be permitted to do that.... and then I realised that I haven't really been following my religious doctrine particularly well since I turned.. which is great from a character development point of view but I'm worrying now that I might not be able to switch back...

Anyway, sorry for the moan, it's not really a complaint, more just a letting off of pent up pressure. In many ways I've gotten off a lot better than the others and I do appreciate it. Deep down. Like, really deep. It's in there somewhere.

Mollyb60

Yeah I don't necessarily think you get all your XP from fighting or kills. I think any sort of experience that moves the story forward or your character learning new things gets you XP.

Banjo

Mollyb60 wrote: »

Yeah I don't necessarily think you get all your XP from fighting or kills. I think any sort of experience that moves the story forward or your character learning new things gets you XP.

Sorry, I promise I'll stop now.
Just on this point : I don't want to know where XP comes from. As it is, knowing I need to load up with treasure to get XP means that at the end of a dungeon my character gets put on pause and I start thinking "how do I maximise what I can carry out of here" and it becomes a spreadsheet puzzle. The less I know about earning XP, the less I can do to deliberately earn XP. And while that might frustrate me at the end of a chapter, i'll have a lot more fun for the rest of hte chapter.

Fourier

Banjo wrote: »

I was looking at that last night actually, but I was trying to figure out whether or not I should be permitted to do that.... and then I realised that I haven't really been following my religious doctrine particularly well since I turned.. which is great from a character development point of view but I'm worrying now that I might not be able to switch back...

Well you're currently half-vamp half-cleric, if you'd prefer to drop the faith you can go full Vamp.

I've yet to give Othegre and Moy their special stuff, too busy last night.