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Once in a Lifetime....for now
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hillsiderunner wrote: »Be very careful I'd say.
When it's going on that long, it makes you wonder about bone stress, especially with the days of rest improving it ..... if it's an early stress reaction I think it's very very hard for a physio to diagnose it (but a week or 10days off might be enough to sort it out).
However, it's only my past experience suggesting that, I have no expertise myself! (just many physio appointments :rolleyes:)
Thanks for the advice.
I was very worried about bone stress/ fracture initially but less so now. I can feel the tender point on the tendon. However I have decided to pay heed to the advice of 2 wise women and will do my few miles tomorrow on grass and trail in the Phoenix Park rather than risk a possibly too fast road run. :pac: 0 -
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El CabaIIo wrote: »Grass is your friend, don't be afraid to work some more into your training even when you don't have any niggles. It builds strength, works your stability muscles and is alot lower impact than the roads. I remember a few years back, Ger Hartmann(recognised as one of the best physical therapist in the world) recommendating that most should do 80% of their running on softer surfaces like grass and trails etc. Look at the kenyans, most if not all of their running is done on dirt roads, Mo Farah's old coach Alberto Salazar has all of his athletes do a mixture of runs from trails, treadmill, track and road and underwater even when they are fully healthy. It's much harder to pick up overuse injuries when you vary surfaces and the benefits are pretty much identical in performance. Might be something to consider going forward.
For going forward, totally agree. It's good for developing a range of muscles etc in lower leg and foot.
For Skyblue now, he should be careful of too much grass, as I think you're more likely to work those peroneals and related tendons on grass, because of the uneven surface. Main advantage on Sunday I think was keeping him slower.
Given the downgrade to a niggle, hoping our debate is irrelevant 0 -
hillsiderunner wrote: »For going forward, totally agree. It's good for developing a range of muscles etc in lower leg and foot.
For Skyblue now, he should be careful of too much grass, as I think you're more likely to work those peroneals and related tendons on grass, because of the uneven surface. Main advantage on Sunday I think was keeping him slower.
Given the downgrade to a niggle, hoping our debate is irrelevant
Ah I love a bit of debate! I think running on flat pitches or the 15 acres in the Park is grand at any time as it is a very even surface. For now I will avoid some of the trickier trails.0 -
hillsiderunner wrote: »For going forward, totally agree. It's good for developing a range of muscles etc in lower leg and foot.
For Skyblue now, he should be careful of too much grass, as I think you're more likely to work those peroneals and related tendons on grass, because of the uneven surface. Main advantage on Sunday I think was keeping him slower.
Given the downgrade to a niggle, hoping our debate is irrelevant
I thought it was it was the tendon on top of the foot near the ankle that connects to the top of toes no? The extensor hallucis tendon?
On top of the foot would be more for flexion up and down of the foot(a heel striker or forefoot injury) than stability muscles like the peroneals which keep the ankle stable which would pronation based. I still think grass is the way forward whichever one though as the impact is what causes a rapid jarring motion for either upon impact where the foot has nowhere to go. If I punch a concrete wall with perfect technique, I still break my hand and wrist. if I punch a lawn with sloppy technique, I'm probably going to be better off.
A little like that crash joke you hear, It wasn't the speed that hurt, it was the sudden stop.0 -
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Delighted to hear the injury has been downgraded S, hopefully eventually one day you will realise the niggle has disappeared altogether
I've had a lot of troubles with the Peroneals this year and last year when the mileage increased during marathon training so i'm very interested in the discussion going on here at the moment. I wonder would running on a running track occasionally be wise? Would it off set some of the load on the joints compared to the road without adding the extra load that grass/trail might add?0 -
Delighted to hear the injury has been downgraded S, hopefully eventually one day you will realise the niggle has disappeared altogether
I've had a lot of troubles with the Peroneals this year and last year when the mileage increased during marathon training so i'm very interested in the discussion going on here at the moment. I wonder would running on a running track occasionally be wise? Would it off set some of the load on the joints compared to the road without adding the extra load that grass/trail might add?
Maybe a treadmill would help? Gentler than tarmac underfoot (sorry ... :rolleyes:)
That routine by Gary Crowley would be helpful to do when you have peroneals+ niggles causing trouble I think - obviously at a more advanced stage you need to be seeing the physio.0 -
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The fact that I have had no issues after the last couple of runs leaves me in a dilemma as to what to do next. A) Continue with very slow runs on grass,
Go normal easy pace on grass, C) Very slow on roads, or D) Consider myself healed and resume normal training? 0 -
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I ended up going with the multiple pitches option! Time passed quickly but it was only 3 miles. :-))
It might be worth toddling over to Albert College Park. Infinitely more variety for the same space with the warren of paths and trees etc. A subtle difference but it might keep you sane 0 -
December 17th-23rd
Monday 17th: 3.1 miles @ 9:41. Av HR 127. A very cautious run on the grass pitches in my local park. I took it particularly handy for a couple of reasons. Firstly that it was a recovery run after my longest run of 8.4 miles in over 6 weeks. It was also the first time I did consecutive days since pre DCM.
Tuesday 18th: 5.2 miles @ 10.02. Av HR 127. A really fun run with J. A recovery run for her after an 18 miler in her Donadea training. Ankle deep puddles and stodgy muck all the way...brilliant!
Thursday 20th: 6.3 miles @ 8:47. Av HR 145. Getting brave!
....or stupid! A bit of Fartlek running and some strides in Albert College. Really enjoyable to stretch the legs even if it was only for short bursts. Still no reaction from the foot so confidence increasing as a result.
Saturday 22nd: 2.9 miles @ 9:31 HR 132. 3.1 miles @ 8:16 HR 145. We were down in Wexford at a wedding on the Friday so took the chance to do the Parkrun there. To say I was feeling a bit rough was an understatement after drinking more than my share at the wedding. A mix of numerous pints of Guinness, a few red wines, prosecco and many G&Ts (old school, none of those big glasses filled with fruit and a herb garden!) wasn't ideal prep. J wanted to do it as a moderate run so I just tagged along. Tough on the drag, freewheeling on the downhill...flat bits were non existent really.
Sunday 23rd: 10 miles @ 8:37 HR 141. Longest run since DCM. Also the fastest. Made a mess of it. Decided not to look at the watch for the first few miles and ran them too fast for my current fitness level. Then when I did notice the pace I decided to hold it for the rest of the run. Loop was on local roads, all concrete! :rolleyes:
So the first real step up for me. Did back to back days twice, had a 5 run week, did some speed work, did a Parkrun at a faster than easy pace and did my longest run in 2 months. The result? Predictably enough there was a bit of inflammation on Sunday night and Monday. Also had some stiffness in muscles that hadn't been pushed for 7 weeks. I'll do the logical thing after 3 weeks of increasing miles (even if it was from a tiny starting point) and make next week somewhat of a step back week. Better to be taking 2 steps forward and 1 back rather than vice versa I suppose!
At this point Raheny 5 and Trim 10 have been abandoned from my plans. I'll decide on Bohermeen shortly as I have little motivation around the idea of doing it unless I have gotten a half decent block of training done. I don't have much interest in toddling around in 1:40 or 1:45 unless I have someone to pace for the day.0 -
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