Fitness to practice

Tom Dunne

The first ever fitness to practice session begins today:

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2017/1108/918309-teacher/

While I am involved in education, I'm not a teacher, but there is something that doesn't sit well with me on this one. I can see the merits of fitness to practice in the medical profession, when lives are at stake, but something this formal and legalistic for the teaching profession?

I'd be interested in hearing teacher's views on this one.

Wanderer78

It does seem like an easier way to blame teachers than systemic problems, be interesting to hear from the teachers themselves though.

judeboy101

The media claiming she put sellotape over their mouths, she claiming they did it themselves and blamed her.

TheDriver

I find it interesting that 1 event in a classroom has led to this (a very strange situation too). But equally, she seems to not be engaging with the council. I thought the council would be hearing of some lengthy list of issues that had been going on, that had been attempted to address and the situation had become impossible in a school e.g. teacher in staffroom all day.
A very strange 1st case for the council

derb12

TheDriver wrote: »

I find it interesting that 1 event in a classroom has led to this (a very strange situation too). But equally, she seems to not be engaging with the council. I thought the council would be hearing of some lengthy list of issues that had been going on, that had been attempted to address and the situation had become impossible in a school e.g. teacher in staffroom all day.
A very strange 1st case for the council

Yes, it seems strange for what basically amounts to a "he said / she said" situation to get to this stage. There must be more to it.

TheDriver

There was 11 in the class, seems very small

rainbowtrout

TheDriver wrote: »

I find it interesting that 1 event in a classroom has led to this (a very strange situation too). But equally, she seems to not be engaging with the council. I thought the council would be hearing of some lengthy list of issues that had been going on, that had been attempted to address and the situation had become impossible in a school e.g. teacher in staffroom all day.
A very strange 1st case for the council

Very little to go on in the report beyond a description of the incident and the TCs efforts to contact her. I wonder what the follow up was in the school and who reported the teacher.

ForestFire

1 incident led to this because of the seriousness of the claim I assume?
I am tending to side with the kids for the moment but interested to see the offical outcome.

The kids word should be easily verifiable as they are only 11 years old at the time.

Even with just 11 in the class, the simplest of "interview" techniques could be used to see if the kids story matched up to each other? Are they capable of an organised lie against a teacher? With all there stories matching up? Can they cry and be visible upset on demand to further their plot?

Even asking the parent to question the kids at home to ensure there was no fibs being told, was this requested at the time.

The fact that the teacher is not attending and has cut off every single form of contact does not look good for her. She seems to have gone to great lengths to avoid this, rather than clear her name?

Tom Dunne

ForestFire wrote: »

The fact that the teacher is not attending and has cut off every single form of contact does not look good for her. She seems to have gone to great lengths to avoid this, rather than clear her name?

I can't help but feel there are bigger issues with this particular teacher. Those are not the actions of a stable person.

This may be the only significant issue that the school could bring through the process.

Chancer3001

Why isn't there a "fitness to be taught " enquiry into certain pupils ?

Strike them off on their entitlement to education if found seriously unsuitable

ForestFire

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Why isn't there a "fitness to be taught " enquiry into certain pupils ?

Strike them off on their entitlement to education if found seriously unsuitable

I hope your not a teacher of young kids?

Every child deserve an equal change and its better to support all children with the best education that will in the long run enhance all society.

Problem children is usually as a result of external events outside the child's control, i.e. bad parenting, Social class. opportunities etc.

I believe it is much better to support people when young to avoid them failing into worse situations when they get older and rely on crime etc. to get by.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1870529/

Chancer3001

ForestFire wrote: »

I hope your not a teacher of young kids?

Every child deserve an equal change and its better to support all children with the best education that will in the long run enhance all society.

Problem children is usually as a result of external events outside the child's control, i.e. bad parenting, Social class. opportunities etc.

I believe it is much better to support people when young to avoid them failing into worse situations when they get older and rely on crime etc. to get by.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1870529/

They all do get an equal chance. Some choose to spend that chance bullying stealing fighting picking on other kids , assaulting teachers.

Some would argue removing these children from a school would allow the rest to prosper and so best suit society.

Support children when they are young, of course. But when they are 15,16,17 , if they behave in an unfit manner they shouldn't be allow keep their opportunity.

Wanderer78

Chancer3001 wrote: »

They all do get an equal chance. Some choose to spend that chance bullying stealing fighting picking on other kids , assaulting teachers.

Some would argue removing these children from a school would allow the rest to prosper and so best suit society.

Support children when they are young, of course. But when they are 15,16,17 , if they behave in an unfit manner they shouldn't be allow keep their opportunity.

so what do we do with them then?

Chancer3001

What did anybody do who left school at that age in the past ?

Get a job, learn a trade , start their own business...

If the dole is too big a lure for some, limit it for that age group

Wanderer78

Chancer3001 wrote: »

What did anybody do who left school at that age in the past ?

Get a job, learn a trade , start their own business...

If the dole is too big a lure for some, limit it for that age group

what if they find the lure of criminality a better option?

padd b1975

TheDriver wrote: »

There was 11 in the class, seems very small

Very common in rural areas.

Chancer3001

That's what the guards and our justice system are for. Unfortunately some people do indeed turn to criminality.

If they're so lured by criminality then mollycoddling them while they fight and steal their way through school probably isn't going to help.

Chancer3001

padd b1975 wrote: »

Very common in rural areas.

I believe the 11 in a class was due to it being a learning support class. Not a mainstream class

Wanderer78

Chancer3001 wrote: »

That's what the guards and our justice system are for. Unfortunately some people do indeed turn to criminality.

If they're so lured by criminality then mollycoddling them while they fight and steal their way through school probably isn't going to help.

so effectively, we should just create 'reactive systems' for social issues that may actually be preventable by creating 'proactive ones'!

Vronsky

I've seen this on the news tonight and to be fair this allegation is on the low end of the scale - given some of the abuses teachers have been guilty of.

At the very most, I would have thought a bollocking from the principal would have been an appropriate sanction, not hauling the teacher before a teaching council to potentially take away her livelihood.

Chancer3001

Wanderer78 wrote: »

so effectively, we should just create 'reactive systems' for social issues that may actually be preventable by creating 'proactive ones'!

No. The 10 or 12 years of schooling beforehand would have been the proactive approach.

If interventions then , disciplining , Molly coddling , mentoring, different approaches from different teachers, parents meetings with teachers and principals hasnt worked in that time... then they shouldn't be allowed to continue.

Just as a teacher who isn't for for the classroom can be told to leave forever , exact same should happen for a student

Wanderer78

Chancer3001 wrote: »

No. The 10 or 12 years of schooling beforehand would have been the proactive approach.

If interventions then , disciplining , Molly coddling , mentoring, different approaches from different teachers, parents meetings with teachers and principals hasnt worked in that time... then they shouldn't be allowed to continue.

Just as a teacher who isn't for for the classroom can be told to leave forever , exact same should happen for a student

again, what do we do with them then, their issues dont just go away? its also important to note, our educational system can and does exasperates complex issues within some.

ForestFire

Chancer3001 wrote: »

They all do get an equal chance. Some choose to spend that chance bullying stealing fighting picking on other kids , assaulting teachers.

Some would argue removing these children from a school would allow the rest to prosper and so best suit society.

Support children when they are young, of course. But when they are 15,16,17 , if they behave in an unfit manner they shouldn't be allow keep their opportunity.

Okay At this age then maybe stonger action and importantly support for teachers is required, which im sure is lacking and left to each teacher to deal with which is unfair to teacher and other pupils.

I'm not saying it's easy or fair for teachers or the other pupils but there has to be a better method than banning them from education.

We should never give up to try to help support and turn someone's fortunes around, but I also understand the support for this is required and at older ages cannot happen in the normal classroom.

trihead

ForestFire wrote: »

The fact that the teacher is not attending and has cut off every single form of contact does not look good for her. She seems to have gone to great lengths to avoid this, rather than clear her name?

I thought the very same but I read online in one of the reports (could be untrue) she had since left the profession so that might give a different angle.

I agree with some of the posters above its a very strange first case - its a great story for the tabloids and the news!! the first case was always going to attract the media but this is a dream come thru for the papers tommorrow!!

I think this type of case shouldn't have come this far... unless 'they' wanted to make an example of this particular teacher.

wirelessdude01

Kitkat1995 wrote:

Why do you have to have 50 posts and be a member of boards.ie for three months, just to express an opinion and share your thoughts with other people?

Chancer3001 wrote:

I believe the 11 in a class was due to it being a learning support class. Not a mainstream class

Massive learning support class so.

Chancer3001

Wanderer78 wrote: »

again, what do we do with them then, their issues dont just go away? its also important to note, our educational system can and does exasperates complex issues within some.

Again, they get a job, star a business , learn a trade... Some added responsibility, freedom from the classroom, they can live at home with mammy and play PlayStation if that's what they want...

But if they're not fit for the class room they shouldn't be there

Chancer3001

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Massive learning support class so.

Yeah. Big but not that much above average.

She was travelling school to school in the area

Noveight

Sellotaping the mouths of students sounds like the peak of a full blown breakdown. Unbelievable really.

Wanderer78

Chancer3001 wrote: »

Again, they get a job, star a business , learn a trade... Some added responsibility, freedom from the classroom, they can live at home with mammy and play PlayStation if that's what they want...

But if they're not fit for the class room they shouldn't be there

what if they dont have the skills to do these type of things? so effectively, we should just give up on these kids, and kids with certain issues, should be excluded from our educational system? what benefits would this have on society as a whole?

ForestFire

Chancer3001 wrote: »

But if they're not fit for the class room they shouldn't be there

I really think you need to specify that you are talking about post junior cert kids to avoid confusion? (Even if you mentioned once in previous post)

Because people can take your post up to mean any age child.

Tom Dunne

Vronsky wrote: »

At the very most, I would have thought a bollocking from the principal would have been an appropriate sanction, not hauling the teacher before a teaching council to potentially take away her livelihood.

Yes, because that is a constructive, progressive and transparent disciplinary process.