Unpopular GAA opinion - MOD Note #426

Martina1991

theoneeyedman wrote:

Then Barrett should have been nominated at 6 not at corner back. These Mayo backs got the awards based on their attacking and not their defence, plus a fair smattering of pity voting.

It's amazing how the All Stars has only become a "pity award" since Keegan won POTY last year.

Dublin won 7 all stars and YPOTY yet all headlines are dominated by complaints from Dublin fans (not the team).

I don't understand why people feel the need to dump on the achievements of others to make themselves feel better.

Bonniedog

cyrils foxpit wrote: »

that makes Eoin Kellys stats look even better, when you consider for most of Kellys career he was part of the worst Tipp Team in a generation compared to Shefflin being in what is considered the greatest side of all time !!!

Shefflin was one of the reasons Kilkenny were so good! Only beaten by Tipp in 2010 because he was injured.

MfMan

Bonniedog wrote: »

Henry has scoring average of 7.5 per game to Kelly's 6.3.

I believe that answers your question!

8 compared to 6.7 in championship.

Ring's championship average was 4.7. And of course Henry won more AIs and played more games. Difficult to see how his status could be questioned.

What are stats from play?

castletownman

I concur with previous mentions of hurling, and I would add another point about it.

It's "traditionalists" are very fussy when it comes to right conditions the game should be played in.

Sure you can't play hurling under the lights.

Sure you can't play hurling on the heavy sod in January or February.

Sure you can't play hurling if the grass is too long.

Sure you can't play hurling championship midweek-not fair on lads.

It's this insular mindset why the local championships in Wexford won't be run off in line with the new time-frame changes.

The traditionalists too aren't averse to condone wild pulls and borderline assault. "That's hurling sure. Different back in my day"

Then again, I cannot think of many Jim McGuinness/Jim Gavin/Pat Gilroy-like figures in the hurling world. Fellas with a zen-like demeanour on the sideline, military-precision attention to detail, an innate ability to inspire his panel, and capable of being articulate in interviews with the media (not to mention successful careers away from the sport too). The hurling fraternity are bit more "agricultural" in comparison.

MayoAreMagic

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Then Barrett should have been nominated at 6 not at corner back. These Mayo backs got the awards based on their attacking and not their defence, plus a fair smattering of pity voting.

Well there are no corner back nominations. It is just defenders. Id agree he should have gotten no.6 though. But id imagine he was shunted in there to make room for dublin players in the defence - the unwritten rule of the ai winners needing the most all stars must be upheld, and the next best corner back was probably harrison.
That isnt a criticism of dublin, but instead the guys giving out the all stars. There is kind of a balancing act that goes on where certain quotas need to be filled.
Colm cavanagh probably got one on the back of the same thing, as all i can remember him doing this year is being not quite as bad as thr rest of the tyrone players against dublin, and then sticking his boot into a dublin player.. both feely and parsons done far more both against dublin and in midfield in general

cms88

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Then Barrett should have been nominated at 6 not at corner back. These Mayo backs got the awards based on their attacking and not their defence, plus a fair smattering of pity voting.

The same can be said for James McCarty, Philly McMahon and Jack McCaffrey
IMO very much this is the case with Jack McCaffrey

cms88

Martina1991 wrote: »

It's amazing how the All Stars has only become a "pity award" since Keegan won POTY last year.

Dublin won 7 all stars and YPOTY yet all headlines are dominated by complaints from Dublin fans (not the team).

I don't understand why people feel the need to dump on the achievements of others to make themselves feel better.

Same with how the keeper All-Star doesn't matter now all of the sudden.

Certain other sidtes are full, especially Dubs, people like that. People who more than likely have never seen a game outode of a Dublin championship games in their lifes

ThunbergsAreGo

The All Stars are not a true reflection the year at all and are way too influenced by the media what happens in the last three games of a season to be relevant (league is forgotten about altogether)

13/15 from the AI Finalists (one of which didnt make it to the league final, failed to win their province and beat a single D1 team on the way to the final) is completely incorrect and unbalanced

Getting to the final does not mean you have all the best players in all the positions and players from lesser counties should represented more

If Kerry had beaten Mayo the first day by a single point, we would likely have seen 5 Kerry players in the All Star Team

brocbrocach

People from football dominated counties thinking their opinions on hurling are useful.

kilns

The case was made that Clarke won the goalkeeper award because he made lots of saves and saved Mayo's bacon in two games and Cluxton did not get it because he didnt get as much action. Mayo  played less division 1 teams than Dublin also in their run.  This would indicate that one of the defences was much poorer than the other.  However the "poorer" defence received 66% of the all stars up for grabs in defence.  Logically it does not make sense, does it?

dobman88

This Mayo team isn't as good as people are making out. If they were as good as people say, they would have won their all Ireland by now.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

The case was made that Clarke won the goalkeeper award because he made lots of saves and saved Mayo's bacon in two games and Cluxton did not get it because he didnt get as much action. Mayo played less division 1 teams than Dublin also in their run. This would indicate that one of the defences was much poorer than the other. However the "poorer" defence received 66% of the all stars up for grabs in defence. Logically it does not make sense, does it?

Mayo played more games and played Kerry twice. If Cluxton and co had done the same he'd have gotten a few more chances to make saves and his defence would have had more work to do, I don't think that can be denied.
Mayo defend man for man, so they will concede more chances, but their defenders will also stand out more. For example Barrett's turnovers in the final. If that was 2-3 guys crowding out one man, it is viewed quite different, and rightly so in my book. Individual excellence like what barrett displayed should be rewarded with individual awards.

I can spin that around for you - James McCarthy was being lauded for an all star ad mf, yet the same James McCarthy was in midfield when Mayo won pretty much every kickout for an entire half. Most of these were won by tom parsons, who didn't get an all star. He was changed to wing back and played better, but Parsons should get the all star at mf, correct? Logically it doesn't make sense, right?


Anyway, back to the opinions..

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

The case was made that Clarke won the goalkeeper award because he made lots of saves and saved Mayo's bacon in two games and Cluxton did not get it because he didnt get as much action. Mayo played less division 1 teams than Dublin also in their run. This would indicate that one of the defences was much poorer than the other. However the "poorer" defence received 66% of the all stars up for grabs in defence. Logically it does not make sense, does it?

Mayo played more games and played Kerry twice. If Cluxton and co had done the same he'd have gotten a few more chances to make saves and his defence would have had more work to do, I don't think that can be denied.
Mayo defend man for man, so they will concede more chances, but their defenders will also stand out more. For example Barrett's turnovers in the final. If that was 2-3 guys crowding out one man, it is viewed quite different, and rightly so in my book. Individual excellence like what barrett displayed should be rewarded with individual awards.

I can spin that around for you - James McCarthy was being lauded for an all star ad mf, yet the same James McCarthy was in midfield when Mayo won pretty much every kickout for an entire half. Most of these were won by tom parsons, who didn't get an all star. He was changed to wing back and played better, but Parsons should get the all star at mf, correct? Logically it doesn't make sense, right?


Anyway, back to the opinions..

Ha ha you are hiliarous. Again if Mayo man for man in defence were so good how come Clarke got so much action?
An All star should be considered over a whole season and you highlight one half of football for James McCarthy but neglect to mention the rest of his season and the fact he was the best player on the pitch in the second half.

blanch152

dobman88 wrote: »

This Mayo team isn't as good as people are making out. If they were as good as people say, they would have won their all Ireland by now.

I disagree, I do believe that in any other era this Mayo team would have won a couple of All-Irelands.

Unfortunately for them, they have come up against the greatest team to play the game.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

Ha ha you are hiliarous. Again if Mayo man for man in defence were so good how come Clarke got so much action?
An All star should be considered over a whole season and you highlight one half of football for James McCarthy but neglect to mention the rest of his season and the fact he was the best player on the pitch in the second half.

I just explained the first part.
Re mccarthy, he had a great second half alright, but he did so from wing back... Again, how can he get an all star in midfield, going off your above logic? Similarly you are finding fault with the mayo defenders, yet barrett was the best player on the pitch in the final, in the same way you are arguing in favour of mccarthy. You are contradicting yourself completely man.

I'l be the one to get back to the topic

I dont think cluxton had all that good a year this year and that clarke was actually well ahead of him

kilns

You explained because Mayo played more games against inferior opposition to who Dublin faced. Again if they went man to man how come their opponents scored lots of goals and forced Clarke into lots of saves. I would deem that poor defending.

If you were going into the final again and had a choice of clarke or cluxton. Hands down you would pick Cluxton

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

You explained because Mayo played more games against inferior opposition to who Dublin faced. Again if they went man to man how come their opponents scored lots of goals and forced Clarke into lots of saves. I would deem that poor defending.

If you were going into the final again and had a choice of clarke or cluxton. Hands down you would pick Cluxton

Why do you feel the need to reword my explanation?

If i was going into the final again id choose clarke tbh, because he had a better game. Mayo would probably have lost by a hatful had we kicked away as much as cluxton did in that first half.

Anyway, back to the topic

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

You explained because Mayo played more games against inferior opposition to who Dublin faced. Again if they went man to man how come their opponents scored lots of goals and forced Clarke into lots of saves. I would deem that poor defending.

If you were going into the final again and had a choice of clarke or cluxton. Hands down you would pick Cluxton

Why do you feel the need to reword my explanation?

If i was going into the final again id choose clarke tbh, because he had a better game. Mayo would probably have lost by a hatful had we kicked away as much as cluxton did in that first half.

Anyway, back to the topic

Fact is Cluxton would not have kicked that ball over the sideline he would have found a Dublin player. Its called clutch

By the way. Going into the final what Dublin player would you pick ahead of Mayo player if you could?

Bonniedog

kilns wrote: »

Fact is Cluxton would not have kicked that ball over the sideline he would have found a Dublin player. Its called clutch

By the way. Going into the final what Dublin player would you pick ahead of Mayo player if you could?

Video shows three Mayo players making intelligent runs to the left and in front of Clarke but he chose to fire the ball towards the sideline where there were two Dublin players.

The Greg Norman of goalkeeping

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

Fact is Cluxton would not have kicked that ball over the sideline he would have found a Dublin player. Its called clutch

By the way. Going into the final what Dublin player would you pick ahead of Mayo player if you could?

But surely all the kickouts in the first half were equally as 'clutch'? I dont really rate that kind of after the fact critiquing to be honest with you. Like if mayo rattle two goals off those kicks in the first, do they now become clutch kicks?

If you look at the thing objectively you will see that there was a common thread on the day - the wind into the davin end. It held up cluxtons kickouts and gave rock trouble in the first half, and it got under clarkes kickout and gave o'connor similar issues to rock in the second half.

Re the dublin players mccarthy, fenton, kilkenny, connolly mannion.
Not realy the place for this discussion though.

Jaden

Unpopular Opinion?

The biggest issue with funding in the GAA, is that the organisation itself can't trust the vast majority of requesters not to piss anything they get away. Financial mismanagement is endemic to the point where it is considered the norm. This is one of, if not the primary hindrance to development of our national games.

TrueGael

Jaden wrote: »

Unpopular Opinion?

The biggest issue with funding in the GAA, is that the organisation itself can't trust the vast majority of requesters not to piss anything they get away. Financial mismanagement is endemic to the point where it is considered the norm. This is one of, if not the primary hindrance to development of our national games.

You're right, should just give Dublin 99% of the funding and create a Globetrotters type Juggernaut team winning the next 50 AI's , can't trust those thick culchies

Fr Tod Umptious

Mehapoy wrote: »

Gaelic football is a made up bastardised version of soccer and rugby, made up only to entice the rural soccer and rugby teams into gaelic games...was a pity it was ever invented as we may have had decent soccer and rugby teams...hurling is an actual games with solid roots in the country

I agree that football is a made up game to differentiate itself from soccer and rugby.

One of the oldest clubs in the country is Laune Rangers in Killorglin Co. Kerry.

Football was brought to Killorglin by two Dublin school teachers.
The best athletes in the town at the time played rugby but converted to football.

It does not bother me if Gaelic games have lessened our ability to compete internationally at other sports, just because a sport is local does not mean it is a lesser sport.

Rugby, soccer and cricket are popular internationally because the British were the most influential nation on earth at the time they were becoming codeified

ArielAtom

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

kilns wrote: »

Ha ha you are hiliarous. Again if Mayo man for man in defence were so good how come Clarke got so much action?
An All star should be considered over a whole season and you highlight one half of football for James McCarthy but neglect to mention the rest of his season and the fact he was the best player on the pitch in the second half.

I just explained the first part.
Re mccarthy, he had a great second half alright, but he did so from wing back... Again, how can he get an all star in midfield, going off your above logic? Similarly you are finding fault with the mayo defenders, yet barrett was the best player on the pitch in the final, in the same way you are arguing in favour of mccarthy. You are contradicting yourself completely man.

I'l be the one to get back to the topic

I dont think cluxton had all that good a year this year and that clarke was actually well ahead of him

As someone who gets it wrong occasionally, where did Barrett play, was it corner back or centre half back? I can't remember

Jaden

TrueGael wrote: »

You're right, should just give Dublin 99% of the funding and create a Globetrotters type Juggernaut team winning the next 50 AI's , can't trust those thick culchies

No mention made of location or level of the endemic issue, yet you have made it a Dublin Vs Culchie thing (your words).

100% Troll with a chip on his shoulder confirmed.

cms88

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I agree that football is a made up game to differentiate itself from soccer and rugby.

One of the oldest clubs in the country is Laune Rangers in Killorglin Co. Kerry.

Football was brought to Killorglin by two Dublin school teachers.
The best athletes in the town at the time played rugby but converted to football.

It does not bother me if Gaelic games have lessened our ability to compete internationally at other sports, just because a sport is local does not mean it is a lesser sport.

Rugby, soccer and cricket are popular internationally because the British were the most influential nation on earth at the time they were becoming codeified

Surely every sport is ''made up'' no? Then again most hurling fans probably think hurling just appeared

Diabhal Beag

The sideline cut over the bar should still be worth two points. It's a fantastic skill and I believe we'd see less wides from a sideline if it was given more value. There's no better point than a sideline over the bar.

Fr Tod Umptious

cms88 wrote: »

Surely every sport is ''made up'' no? Then again most hurling fans probably think hurling just appeared

That is of course true, but in relation to football I have heard that the game was "invented" as a Irish football game.

What infulence "caid" had on it's early rules and playing style I don't know, and I'd love to find some sources about that.

Bonniedog

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I agree that football is a made up game to differentiate itself from soccer and rugby.

Yes, but it is not you see.

Codified rugby and the wendyball only date to the 1870s. Didn't exist here outside of Brit garrisons until 1880s, after the GAA was formed. Gaelic football is based on much older game, cáid.

That game was strong in Kerry, north county Dublin, Meath ...... didn't lick it off the stones!

There are lots of sources about the origin of the game. Only ones who claim it to be bastardization of wendyball are bitter oul FAI heads who cant cope with failure :-)

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why do you feel the need to reword my explanation?

If i was going into the final again id choose clarke tbh, because he had a better game. Mayo would probably have lost by a hatful had we kicked away as much as cluxton did in that first half.

Anyway, back to the topic

This shows how little you understand how the All-Ireland was actually won.

Cluxton's kick-out success over the whole game was higher than Clarke's. Throughout the game, Clarke handed over possession to Dublin, making sure that Mayo could never get a run on them.

When it came to the crucial kick-out in injury time, Clarke choked and kicked it over the sideline when there were five Mayo men free with one Dublin marker between them. Cluxton was coolness personified when Dublin played keepball.

The fact that my unpopular opinion that Clarke will always choke has generated such a response only proves that it hits a nerve and is therefore more true than you think.

Hammer Archer

OK lads let's not rehash this for the millionth time in the millionth thread. It's been done to death.
This can be an interesting thread without it descending into another argument about this year's All-Ireland final.

Bonniedog

But its great crack!

OK, point taken. I have never rubbed anyone's defeat in their face. I hope!

TrueGael

Jaden wrote: »

No mention made of location or level of the endemic issue, yet you have made it a Dublin Vs Culchie thing (your words).

100% Troll with a chip on his shoulder confirmed.

Own up to your opinion you implied the thicko muck savages from the country wouldn't know what to do with the money, don't hide from what you were trying to say we thickos understand loud and clear

ProudDUB

TrueGael wrote: »

Own up to your opinion you implied the thicko muck savages from the country wouldn't know what to do with the money, don't hide from what you were trying to say we thickos understand loud and clear

Or maybe he was thinking about reports like those commissioned by the Leinster Council in the article below.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/revealed-damning-report-exposes-glaring-inadequacies-in-gaa-spending-and-player-development-34844507.html

It doesn't exactly paint the financial governance of certain counties in a good light, when they got their hands on serious amounts of dosh.

But if that massive chip on your shoulder makes you want to turn this into something about thicko muck savages, knock yourself out.

Stoner

Cork GAA supporters secretly like football. The game is suppressed there because two counties that they have a significant rivalry with, Kerry and The Capital win a lot of titles.

On top of that Kerry and Dublin are not successful in hurling. So my unpopular opinion is that in part, Cork people suppress football and discount it as a game because they hate being beaten by Kerry and the odd time when they play Dublin. When beaten they say sure it's all about the hurling anyway, very little mention if that in 2010 when they won the AI.
They are still good Hurlers all the same, but they've had great footballers and football teams fed from a great tradition of football that is sadly dying.

independent11

Stop providing support to weaker hurling counties, financial or otherwise. They’ve been weak for 100+ years and will be in 100 years time as well.

All Ireland hurling should be a Super 8 of the elite hurling counties only. Play all games in Croke Park. County hurlers should no longer play for clubs as too much conflict. Let the club championships go ahead during the summer into the All Ireland club championship and play that final as a curtain raiser to the PGA* World Series Senior Hurling Final.

* Professional Gaelic Association

pmurphy00

1. Too many scores from frees greatly reduce both hurling and football as a spectacle. particularly hurling as they can be scored from so far out.

2. they'll need a shot clock like basketball(maybe 2 mins) otherwise football is just a boring hand passing game played in a big field with 15 runners.

3. too much emphasis is on winning in GAA.
The kerry v mayo semi final was a very poor spectacle to drive 200 odd miles to, even allowing for a kery defeat. Eventually as the spectacle diminishes it'll effect attendances and even interest.

4. allowing the game to flow.
the game has rules, the ref should apply them to the best of his ability.
if the rules are wrong congress should change them.

5. the entire rte panel should be ovehauled

Bonniedog

Full house at league final last year, 54,000 this year..... hardly a sign of diminishing attendances!

gammygils

There should be a fairer system for All-Ireland ticket allocation.
They should be made available to those who support their County all season long & not to the "Croke Park only" brigade
And most definitely not to neutrals who just want a day out!

BonnieSituation

gammygils wrote: »

There should be a fairer system for All-Ireland ticket allocation.
They should be made available to those who support their County all season long & not to the "Croke Park only" brigade
And most definitely not to neutrals who just want a day out!

https://www.seasontickets.ie/

THEY ARE!

PARlance

gammygils wrote: »

There should be a fairer system for All-Ireland ticket allocation.
They should be made available to those who support their County all season long & not to the "Croke Park only" brigade
And most definitely not to neutrals who just want a day out!

It's probably the fairest/most just system for a big event that I've ever come across. Most loyal supporters (those lucky enough to be in the schemes).are guaranteed tickets. Clubs are given responsibility to allocate to their members.

It's not perfect, nothing is. There will be lots of corporate etc, demand will always be far greater than supply and someone's annoying American girlfriend will always manage to get one... but it's an excellent way to handle tickets.

Martina1991

Nepotism is still alive and well and hurts many counties at underage level.

A cousin of mine was on the county minor team a few years ago. Played up until the Connacht final.
A club mate of his with county board connections came back from injury and took his spot on the team.

My cousin lost all interest and just played soccer instead.

MayoAreMagic

Martina1991 wrote: »

Nepotism is still alive and well and hurts many counties at underage level.

A cousin of mine was on the county minor team a few years ago. Played up until the Connacht final.
A club mate of his with county board connections came back from injury and took his spot on the team.

My cousin lost all interest and just played soccer instead.

In fairness, knockbacks happen, right or wrong. His mistake was giving up.



Another unpopular opinion.

1. The GAA would be better served playing far more meaningful games outside croke park. The atmosphere is much better, and the towns could really do with the finances it would generate.

2. Full time sweepers shoudnt get all stars, as there is no sweeper position on the team. Some might say it isn't fair, but then a sweeper taking the place of a player who genuinely excelled in the position is even less fair as far as I can see.

bruschi

Martina1991 wrote: »

Nepotism is still alive and well and hurts many counties at underage level.

A cousin of mine was on the county minor team a few years ago. Played up until the Connacht final.
A club mate of his with county board connections came back from injury and took his spot on the team.

My cousin lost all interest and just played soccer instead.

my unpopular opinion:

that former GAA players or relations who go on about the way they were mistreated and end up giving up the game because of some spurious reason or more often alleged cronyism, when in fact in the majority of cases they just were never really that motivated or pushed to make it.

A player who played county minor who gives up the game entirely because "a county board connected player took his spot" does not make any sense to me. And I never believe that county minor management have any influence put on them from county board connections to play players or that it has any bearing whatsoever on picking a team.

Martina1991

bruschi wrote: »

my unpopular opinion:

that former GAA players or relations who go on about the way they were mistreated and end up giving up the game because of some spurious reason or more often alleged cronyism, when in fact in the majority of cases they just were never really that motivated or pushed to make it.

A player who played county minor who gives up the game entirely because "a county board connected player took his spot" does not make any sense to me. And I never believe that county minor management have any influence put on them from county board connections to play players or that it has any bearing whatsoever on picking a team.

In the example I gave it wasn't a question of lack of motivation.
I know for a fact my cousin was completely committed.
But a player who didn't train or play up until that point walks on to the team?

If you had put a lot of time, dedication and work into something would you not be disheartened to have it taken away.

jr86

PARlance wrote: »

and someone's annoying American girlfriend will always manage to get one...

Haha game me a good laugh, so true

Fully agree with the overall sentiments though

Jaden

TrueGael wrote: »

Own up to your opinion you implied the thicko muck savages from the country wouldn't know what to do with the money, don't hide from what you were trying to say we thickos understand loud and clear

Again, I have implied nothing. This grasping at straws to incite some imaginary idealogical divide between Rural and Urban is of no benefit to anyone.

However, if it makes you feel better to either self-depreciate, or to engage in name calling to others, may I suggest the latter rather than the former? It is the lesser of two evils. Jackeen, West-Brit, Dirty-Dub - anything you like, fire away. We Danes are made of sterner stuff, we can handle it. Words are wind, my friend.

But not for one moment will it change the fact that a superior footballing team won the 2011 All-Ireland Final. (It *is* an unpopular opinion thread, and I suspect this particular opinion will strike close to home with you).

bruschi

Martina1991 wrote: »

In the example I gave it wasn't a question of lack of motivation.
I know for a fact my cousin was completely committed.
But a player who didn't train or play up until that point walks on to the team?

If you had put a lot of time, dedication and work into something would you not be disheartened to have it taken away.

of course you would be disheartened. I doubt you will find anyone anywhere in any sport where that hasnt happened.

My point being that it is being blamed on a player getting the spot because of county board connections. I do not believe that.

The fact that he gives up the sport entirely because of one set back. That doesnt show any motivation.

And there are no details of the player who didnt train up to that point. He could have been injured, he could have been on school teams, he could have been on the team the year previous and was missing up to that point. There are various legitimate reasons as to why he came back. I also doubt he never trained at all and just walked onto the team.

There is a huge difference between being disheartened and to just quitting on a sport altogether. Its as if it wouldnt happen in any other sport. Maybe he just likes soccer more.

ThunbergsAreGo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

https://www.seasontickets.ie/

THEY ARE!

Usually in Shiite seats Row B for the 2016 final

BonnieSituation

naughtb4 wrote: »

Usually in Shiite seats Row B for the 2016 final

Now that's a different conversation from a
301 Row J Seat 1 resident 2017.