Unpopular GAA opinion - MOD Note #426

Patser

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am a Dub that is starting to think that spitting Dublin in two might not be such a bad idea.

1) It will stop the culchies whinging
2) A Northside v Southside All-Ireland final might not be the worst thing!

I draw the line at splitting Dublin in three though!

I'm a Dub and think combining some of the smaller counties to give them a better selection pool, while decreasing fixture congestion mightn't be a bad idea.

So for example Tipp and Waterford footballers, Clare and Limerick, Sligo and Leitrim, Down and Antrim - teams that with a slight boost might challenge for a provincial title while giving the real quality players in the tiny counties a chance at recognition too.

Counties that haven't won a provincial in a generation or so, so combining the likes of Louth, Westmeath, Longford, Wicklow, Kildare, Carlow, Wexford, Laois and Offaly (and if it wasn't for that freaky goal fest in 2010 Meath, oh and Kilkenny can shag right off) might provide a challenge.

MayoAreMagic

Patser wrote: »

I'm a Dub and think combining some of the smaller counties to give them a better selection pool, while decreasing fixture congestion mightn't be a bad idea.

So for example Tipp and Waterford footballers, Clare and Limerick, Sligo and Leitrim, Down and Antrim - teams that with a slight boost might challenge for a provincial title while giving the real quality players in the tiny counties a chance at recognition too.

Counties that haven't won a provincial in a generation or so, so combining the likes of Louth, Westmeath, Longford, Wicklow, Kildare, Carlow, Wexford, Laois and Offaly (and if it wasn't for that freaky goal fest in 2010 Meath, oh and Kilkenny can shag right off) might provide a challenge.

Id imagine the logical thing would be a combination of both. i.e. two dublin teams, sligo/leitrim, longford/westmeath, carlow/waterford/kilkenny, laois/offaly. In fairness that could probably be implemented in the morning too.

nice_guy80

you simply cannot compare Dublin and Mayo

Mayo haven't won an AI

dobman88

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Mayo haven't won an AI

As much as I admire your attempted troll and I love winding up the Mayo fans as much as anyone. That's just not true. Mayo have won the all Ireland.

Unlucky.

Bonniedog

dobman88 wrote: »

As much as I admire your attempted troll and I love winding up the Mayo fans as much as anyone. That's just not true. Mayo have won the all Ireland.

Unlucky.

I do enjoy jousting with MAM. Other Mayo posters like Seligheit - if I spelt that right! - are among the best posters on GAA forums.

Mayo are one of best teams of last 20 years. Fact that they keep coming back is admirable. Won't stop me screaming at AOS and Cillian, but I do admire them.

When they are all old men, like me!, they wont remember the medals or the defeats, they will recall that they crowed on a fence.

ThunbergsAreGo

Bonniedog wrote: »

I do enjoy jousting with MAM. Other Mayo posters like Seligheit - if I spelt that right! - are among the best posters on GAA forums.

Mayo are one of best teams of last 20 years. Fact that they keep coming back is admirable. Won't stop me screaming at AOS and Cillian, but I do admire them.

When they are all old men, like me!, they wont remember the medals or the defeats, they will recall that they crowed on a fence.

Agree, I do constantly think they are a Nazi sympathizer due to misreading his or her username :pac:

bucketybuck

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So you watch Wicklow club matches?
Ah stop will ya. Vincents are all Ireland winners and were clear favourites in the game. 1-16 on in fact. End of story.

I was chatting a guy last Saturday, he happened to be a trainer for some Kildare club beaten in a final recently, or maybe it was beaten in a Leinster championship game, I don't know, I'm not from around here so it didn't register.

His words? "Rathnew are going to do them." He basically said that they were a shower of ***** and would be a damn tough nut to crack, and that Vincents were going to get a shock.

That was before the game, so is it really so hard to understand that people who knew both teams and who followed the competitions saw the result coming even if the bookies didn't?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

bucketybuck

There is many a club team caught out by that sort of thinking.

kilns

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

O'Shea goes missing in the big games - has he ever scored in an All-Ireland final?

He does, as does Connolly. That is my point.

Didnt Connolly come on at half time in the All Ireland and was the most influencal player in the second half and probably the reason they won, that is not going missing

dirtyden

Patser wrote: »

I'm a Dub and think combining some of the smaller counties to give them a better selection pool, while decreasing fixture congestion mightn't be a bad idea.

So for example Tipp and Waterford footballers, Clare and Limerick, Sligo and Leitrim, Down and Antrim - teams that with a slight boost might challenge for a provincial title while giving the real quality players in the tiny counties a chance at recognition too.

Counties that haven't won a provincial in a generation or so, so combining the likes of Louth, Westmeath, Longford, Wicklow, Kildare, Carlow, Wexford, Laois and Offaly (and if it wasn't for that freaky goal fest in 2010 Meath, oh and Kilkenny can shag right off) might provide a challenge.

This might be unpopular but how about the suggestion of leaving everything well alone and not constantly tinkering with what works.

The current Dublin team is exceptional. As was the Kerry team of late 70s early 80s and in hurling the KK team of the 2000s etc. Why don't we celebrate their excellence rather than whinging about it. I am from Tipp and seeing KK winning every year was somewhat hard to take but still had to be admired.

MayoAreMagic

kilns wrote: »

Didnt Connolly come on at half time in the All Ireland and was the most influencal player in the second half and probably the reason they won, that is not going missing

Well for starters, he was neither the most influential player, nor the reason they won. I'm not trying to take away from him, he made a difference when he came on alright, but those two statements are just inaccurate.

The thing is, depending on what is being discussed, it was McCarthy who won Dublin the AI, then it's Rock, then it's Cluxton, it is quite disingenuous.

We are seeing the same disingenuous bs now where people are trying to claim that 'people in the know' knew rathnew were going to win. FFS, pull the other one.
The attitude seems to be basically say anything rather than simply admit, the frankly very fair assessment, that Connolly can be hit and miss at times, no more than a lot of players around at the minute, Aidan O'Shea included.

You aren't betraying the cause by being objective now and again.

ThunbergsAreGo

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well for starters, he was neither the most influential player, nor the reason they won. I'm not trying to take away from him, he made a difference when he came on alright, but those two statements are just inaccurate.

The thing is, depending on what is being discussed, it was McCarthy who won Dublin the AI, then it's Rock, then it's Cluxton, it is quite disingenuous.

We are seeing the same disingenuous bs now where people are trying to claim that 'people in the know' knew rathnew were going to win. FFS, pull the other one.
The attitude seems to be basically say anything rather than simply admit, the frankly very fair assessment, that Connolly can be hit and miss at times, no more than a lot of players around at the minute, Aidan O'Shea included.

You aren't betraying the cause by being objective now and again.

We all know it was David Clarke that won Dublin the AI:P:P:P

I do think Connolly is overrated as well, a great moments footballer but not a great footballer

MayoAreMagic

dirtyden wrote: »

The current Dublin team is exceptional. As was the Kerry team of late 70s early 80s and in hurling the KK team of the 2000s etc. Why don't we celebrate their excellence rather than whinging about it. I am from Tipp and seeing KK winning every year was somewhat hard to take but still had to be admired.

The only thing with that is, Kilkenny and Dublin are not the same. Kilkenny have below average resources. There is nothing they are doing as regards development that most other counties cannot repeat to the letter and, if they are good enough, repeat the feat. They have chosen to forego football completely in the quest for hurling success, people may not agree with that idea, but we should realise that we can all do the same if we so wish.

With Dublin, there are provinces that cant repeat their roadmap, never mind counties.. Therein lies the problem. How can someone else hope to compete with them consistently?

MayoAreMagic

naughtb4 wrote: »

I do think Connolly is overrated as well, a great moments footballer but not a great footballer

Funny, that is pretty much exactly the assessment I gave at the start, in line with the thread topic, and it ended up with 3 pages of sh*te about mayo.

It isn't me that is ruining these threads...

bucketybuck

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It isn't me that is ruining these threads...

It really is.

MayoAreMagic

bucketybuck wrote: »

It really is.

It isn't. It is people who attack the county of a person who makes a relevant post on a thread.

It is people who try to push garbage defences like, for example, that a team at 1-16 on, on a provincial stage, weren't really strong favourites for people 'in the know', rather than just accept the frankly infinitely more plausible alternative that a team didn't play well and got turned over...

It is people who tell themselves that they are winding others up, but are actually just being a bit of a gobsh*te in general and spoiling a potentially good topic...

dobman88

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It isn't. It is people who attack the county of a person who makes a relevant post on a thread.

It is people who try to push garbage defences like, for example, that a team at 1-16 on, on a provincial stage, weren't really strong favourites for people 'in the know', rather than just accept the frankly infinitely more plausible alternative that a team didn't play well and got turned over...

It is people who tell themselves that they are winding others up, but are actually just being a bit of a gobsh*te in general and spoiling a potentially good topic...

You're the only one bringing up the same thing over and over. It's like you're arguing with yourself at this point

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It isn't. It is people who attack the county of a person who makes a relevant post on a thread.

It is people who try to push garbage defences like, for example, that a team at 1-16 on, on a provincial stage, weren't really strong favourites for people 'in the know', rather than just accept the frankly infinitely more plausible alternative that a team didn't play well and got turned over...

It is people who tell themselves that they are winding others up, but are actually just being a bit of a gobsh*te in general and spoiling a potentially good topic...

If you are referring to me regards Rathnew, I asked PT from Wicklow the day before whether he thought Rathnew had a chance. Only time I recall Vinnies hammering a team out the gate was Castlebar and they were only 4/5 as far as I can recall

Most other club games at this stage are close.

MayoAreMagic

dobman88 wrote: »

You're the only one bringing up the same thing over and over. It's like you're arguing with yourself at this point

What thing?

I agreed with another poster that connolly was maybe a bit over rated. I added that there were similarities in oshea in the way thet dp great things trather than being great players.. Someone since made the same point.

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

If you are referring to me regards Rathnew, I asked PT from Wicklow the day before whether he thought Rathnew had a chance. Only time I recall Vinnies hammering a team out the gate was Castlebar and they were only 4/5 as far as I can recall

Most other club games at this stage are close.

No they arent in fact. At this stage you more often than not get a number of comfortable wins where champions from stronger counties play champions from weaker counties, depending on the draw.
You are trying to rewrite reality here..

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

No they arent in fact. At this stage you more often than not get a number of comfortable wins where champions from stronger counties play champions from weaker counties, depending on the draw.
You are trying to rewrite reality here..

When Vinnies last won the AI, they beat Ballymun after a replay in Dublin SFC - their toughest game; Lomans by 2 points, Summerhill by 4, Portlaoise by 3, Ballinderry by 4.

Only hammering they handed out was in final to Castlebar.

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

When Vinnies last won the AI, they beat Ballymun after a replay in Dublin SFC - their toughest game; Lomans by 2 points, Summerhill by 4, Portlaoise by 3, Ballinderry by 4.

Only hammering they handed out was in final to Castlebar.

So the entire history of the competition for every team is defined by how st vincents run went in one specific year is what you are arguing...

Its kinda like saying Leicester city won the league once, therefore underdogs always win the league.

Bonniedog

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So the entire history of the competition for every team is defined by how st vincents run went in one specific year is what you are arguing...

Its kinda like saying Leicester city won the league once, therefore underdogs always win the league.

Club is far more level than inter county because you only have 2/3 major inter county players on even the strongest teams. Vinnies have one. Slaughtneil beat Vins last year and Derry wouldn't last 15 minutes with Dublin. Likewise Brigids beat Ballymun with 5 Dubs players, Corofin beat Vinnies three years ago. Dubs v Galway? Well, we don't need to go there, do we!

Its completely different competition. Carlow and Wicklow clubs have always been strong wheras county teams are normally bottom division. Don't have time to be doing stats but I think you will find that there have been fair few "shocks" over the years and most games are close outside of county.

MayoAreMagic

Bonniedog wrote: »

Club is far more level than inter county because you only have 2/3 major inter county players on even the strongest teams. Vinnies have one. Slaughtneil beat Vins last year and Derry wouldn't last 15 minutes with Dublin. Likewise Brigids beat Ballymun with 5 Dubs players, Corofin beat Vinnies three years ago. Dubs v Galway? Well, we don't need to go there, do we!

Its completely different competition. Carlow and Wicklow clubs have always been strong wheras county teams are normally bottom division. Don't have time to be doing stats but I think you will find that there have been fair few "shocks" over the years and most games are close outside of county.

But the level of a club team isn't solely defined by how many intercounty players they have - castlebar had nobody starting the AI final for example..
You are talking about counties, yet it isn't of any relevance because we know the level of these club teams in their own right.

However, I will give you a comparison from intercounty. Kerry are expected to win munster by dishing out a hammering or two along the way, as are Dublin in leinster in fact. However, if one year, Tipperary give Kerry a good game of it, then so do cork in the final, they wont have hammered anyone that year. But, that one specific year doesn't now mean that hammerings don't take place in munster or indeed leinster, as you are trying to suggest here. It is in fact more of an exception than the new rule.

It is very rare that you don't get a few good beatings at this point in the competition. I could go rooting out results, but I wont bother because we all know this to be true. You just don't want to admit it, because admit that and then you have to admit that Vincents, and thus Connolly didn't turn up on a big occasions. So you go through all this convoluted stuff again and again. Jesus man, every team loses a game they were expected to win now and again, and no player is good all the time. It is comical that you go to these lengths rather than accept even that.

gormdubhgorm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

you simply cannot compare Dublin and Mayo

Mayo haven't won an AI

dobman88 wrote: »

As much as I admire your attempted troll and I love winding up the Mayo fans as much as anyone. That's just not true. Mayo have won the all Ireland.

Unlucky.

If he added 'in colour' it would have worked well

dobman88

Is this an unpopular opinion thread or a threada about random club football with a Dublin mayo sideshow........ again

nice_guy80

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

dirtyden wrote: »

The current Dublin team is exceptional. As was the Kerry team of late 70s early 80s and in hurling the KK team of the 2000s etc. Why don't we celebrate their excellence rather than whinging about it. I am from Tipp and seeing KK winning every year was somewhat hard to take but still had to be admired.

The only thing with that is, Kilkenny and Dublin are not the same. Kilkenny have below average resources. There is nothing they are doing as regards development that most other counties cannot repeat to the letter and, if they are good enough, repeat the feat. They have chosen to forego football completely in the quest for hurling success, people may not agree with that idea, but we should realise that we can all do the same if we so wish.

With Dublin, there are provinces that cant repeat their roadmap, never mind counties.. Therein lies the problem. How can someone else hope to compete with them consistently?

more club football played in Kilkenny than there is hurling in most football counties eg Mayo, Donegal, Kerry

Bonniedog

dobman88 wrote: »

Is this an unpopular opinion thread or a threada about random club football with a Dublin mayo sideshow........ again

There are a lot of recidivists, including myself, on this thread

Stoner

Bonniedog wrote:

recidivists

Poxy Trinity heads!

Bonniedog

Roysh!

MayoAreMagic

nice_guy80 wrote: »

more club football played in Kilkenny than there is hurling in most football counties eg Mayo, Donegal, Kerry

Debateable, but even if that is true, what difference does it make to the point? Whatever the exact split is, the majority of counties could copy it to the letter.
That was the point being made.

Martina1991

nice_guy80 wrote:

more club football played in Kilkenny than there is hurling in most football counties eg Mayo, Donegal, Kerry

Kerry competed for the Liam McCarthy in 2016.
Mayo won the Nicky Rackard in 2016.

Hurling is taken seriously in "football" counties.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

nice_guy80 wrote: »

more club football played in Kilkenny than there is hurling in most football counties eg Mayo, Donegal, Kerry

That is a complete lie. Hurling is far more popular in Mayo than football is in Kilkenny, there are numerous villages where it is the more popular code. Kerry isn't even close, there's a region of north Kerry where people play little else!

Fr Tod Umptious

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

That is a complete lie. Hurling is far more popular in Mayo than football is in Kilkenny, there are numerous villages where it is the more popular code. Kerry isn't even close, there's a region of north Kerry where people play little else!

For the first time a Mayo team have won a Connacht championship in hurling.

Toreen winning the intermediate this year.

Wake me up when a Kilkenny team win any provincial championship in football.

manofwisdom

Bonniedog wrote: »

Club is far more level than inter county because you only have 2/3 major inter county players on even the strongest teams. Vinnies have one. Slaughtneil beat Vins last year and Derry wouldn't last 15 minutes with Dublin. Likewise Brigids beat Ballymun with 5 Dubs players, Corofin beat Vinnies three years ago. Dubs v Galway? Well, we don't need to go there, do we!

Its completely different competition. Carlow and Wicklow clubs have always been strong wheras county teams are normally bottom division. Don't have time to be doing stats but I think you will find that there have been fair few "shocks" over the years and most games are close outside of county.

Different competition alright but like county level a few teams are dominating now. In Connacht its between Castlebar,Corofin last few years, Crossmaglen were the top dogs in Ulster now Slaughtneill has taken up that mantle, Dr Crokes are ahead of rest in Munster. St Vincents or whatever club beat them in Dublin were likewise in Leinster until last Sunday as before that St Vincents had not been beaten in Leinster club football since 1981. A run of 18 matches in 5 campaigns, basically, when they're in it, they win it.

CrabRevolution

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

That is a complete lie. Hurling is far more popular in Mayo than football is in Kilkenny, there are numerous villages where it is the more popular code. Kerry isn't even close, there's a region of north Kerry where people play little else!

I wish that were true. There are only 3 hurling clubs in Mayo, and 21 football clubs in Kilkenny.

If you picked a random man in Kilkenny, and a random lad from Mayo, the Kilkenny lad is more likely to play football than the Mayo lad is to play hurling.

theoneeyedman

There will be a big split in the GAA, especially on the football side in the next 10 years.
The constant agenda of elitism driven by Croke Park will end up with about 10 or 12 teams competing for the All Ireland title. You'll have 2 from Dublin, possibly 2 or 3 from Leinster, 2 from Munster, maybe 3 each from Ulster and Connacht, and maybe another one or 2 depending on finance/resources etc.
This will either happen through the GAA themselves, or some outside source, like a new media company (eg broadband, phone company). These players will no longer play club football. Players will get paid, maybe not full time but.... You'll have an AFL type thing, 10 or 12 teams with say the top 6 playing off.

Bonniedog

If that happens it will be the end of it. Club proves that any team that does the proper preparation can compete with the alleged "elite." No reason county teams can not do the same.

StupidLikeAFox

theoneeyedman wrote: »

There will be a big split in the GAA, especially on the football side in the next 10 years.
The constant agenda of elitism driven by Croke Park will end up with about 10 or 12 teams competing for the All Ireland title. You'll have 2 from Dublin, possibly 2 or 3 from Leinster, 2 from Munster, maybe 3 each from Ulster and Connacht, and maybe another one or 2 depending on finance/resources etc.
This will either happen through the GAA themselves, or some outside source, like a new media company (eg broadband, phone company). These players will no longer play club football. Players will get paid, maybe not full time but.... You'll have an AFL type thing, 10 or 12 teams with say the top 6 playing off.

Don't know how you came to that idea but I think you are completely wrong. From a politics perspective it would be a nightmare, imagine telling 32 county board chairmen that 20 of you will lose your jobs, that there is going to be no more Kildare/Laois/Carlow, just the East Midlands Rangers. Not a hope!

Also, the whole "split Dublin in two" argument doesn't have near as much support as its given credit for. A lot of these drastic restructuring ideas are often thrown out when there is plainly no appetite for it. Its always thrown out as a glib response to something, and Colm ORourke mentioned on the Sunday Game this year and people went mad over it again. But it has never been seriously considered or proposed by the GAA and there is zero real appetite for it from any county. Its handy for a pundit to grab a few headlines but thats it.

Another is the A championship and B championship - none of the weaker counties ever want this. Carlow were happy to play the Dubs this year and have their chance to give them a rattle.

zetecescort

there should be a Junior, Intermediate and Senior All Ireland. if every county championship in the country is played this way I can never understand why Intercounty isn't. If the weaker sides want to play the big teams they should have to earn it, win your way up to senior

blanch152

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

So the entire history of the competition for every team is defined by how st vincents run went in one specific year is what you are arguing...

Its kinda like saying Leicester city won the league once, therefore underdogs always win the league.

Actually, you could look at it another way. Lots of competition years are defined by a Mayo team losing in the final, whether it is club or inter-county.

Kerrydude1981

zetecescort wrote: »

there should be a Junior, Intermediate and Senior All Ireland. if every county championship in the country is played this way I can never understand why Intercounty isn't. If the weaker sides want to play the big teams they should have to earn it, win your way up to senior

They have it in Ladies football,the Camoige has different grades as well and it works well,you win your way up

Hurling has the different tier competitions as well but when something gets mentioned about having something similar in football,then its shot down straight away.

theoneeyedman

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Don't know how you came to that idea but I think you are completely wrong. From a politics perspective it would be a nightmare, imagine telling 32 county board chairmen that 20 of you will lose your jobs, that there is going to be no more Kildare/Laois/Carlow, just the East Midlands Rangers. Not a hope!

Also, the whole "split Dublin in two" argument doesn't have near as much support as its given credit for. A lot of these drastic restructuring ideas are often thrown out when there is plainly no appetite for it. Its always thrown out as a glib response to something, and Colm ORourke mentioned on the Sunday Game this year and people went mad over it again. But it has never been seriously considered or proposed by the GAA and there is zero real appetite for it from any county. Its handy for a pundit to grab a few headlines but thats it.

Another is the A championship and B championship - none of the weaker counties ever want this. Carlow were happy to play the Dubs this year and have their chance to give them a rattle.

Oh, it will eventually happen.
If policy from HQ keeps going as at present, you will have the elite pi55ed off because they haven't enough games, a TV or media company looking to expand its market, and an apathetic audience with only 3 or 4 competitors IC games per year.
It's happened in every single sport, NFL, soccer, cricket, rugby, both union and league.... They all said it would never happen, but it did.

cms88

zetecescort wrote: »

there should be a Junior, Intermediate and Senior All Ireland. if every county championship in the country is played this way I can never understand why Intercounty isn't. If the weaker sides want to play the big teams they should have to earn it, win your way up to senior

But that's not ''fair'' and nowaday everyone has to be treated the same...

But seriously this is one thing that annoys me. The argument they make is they dont train all year to play in a B championship, yet they will to be hammered year in year out.

People try to use Carlow this year as an example for not have other grades. But what did Carlow really do? Played 5 games and the only ones they won were against Div 4 teams.

In fact i feel this scene of entitlement is why football is in a poor place at the moment. The ''weaker'' teams don't bother making a effort and just want things changed around to make it easiler for them.

TrueGael

Also, the whole "split Dublin in two" argument doesn't have near as much support as its given credit for. A lot of these drastic restructuring ideas are often thrown out when there is plainly no appetite for it.

Wrong


https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/quinn-hints-dublin-split-is-fait-accompli-1.1047394

It was obvious in 2002 before the millions of euro came, that Dublin was way too big to only have 1 thing and the last 15 years have certainly bone out that way

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

TrueGael

Patww79 wrote: »

Still won't happen though.

When the attendances of the GAA's Golden goose continue to plummet, you better believe something will happen

Why do you think they invented the Super 8 concoction????

MayoAreMagic

blanch152 wrote: »

Actually, you could look at it another way. Lots of competition years are defined by a Mayo team losing in the final, whether it is club or inter-county.

To be honest, if your year is defined by a Mayo team losing a game, it says more about you than anything else.
In reality, when you compete at the top table every year, you are going to have final losses along the way. Every team bar 1 loses at some stage. If you are consistently making finals at all grades, then your levels are consistently excellent. That is something to be applauded, but in the parochial world of the gaa, people cant see the reality due to their own biases.

Similarly, if you asked a person who follows sport, who had never heard of gaa, about a team needing 10 times the resources of everyone else and government handouts on top of that, while playing every meaningful game at home to win anything, they would probably consider them a bit pathetic truth be told.

doc_17

Casement Park Project. It’s ridiculous in th era of Brexit that the GAA are pumping huge money into a project given they don’t know if there’ll be a hard border or not. Renovate Clones instead.