Best option for smart heating controls

flogen

Hey all.

I've currently got a relatively modern boiler (a Vokera 25A) controlled by a basic electronic timer and would like to upgrade to some smart controls/thermostat.

We're both iPhone users so would ideally like something HomeKit-compatible - and I would like to have the option of adding smart TRVs down the line.

From what I can see that leaves me with a handful of options - namely Tado and Netatmo (and maybe the Ecobee4?).

So a few questions -

Am I missing any options there - or is there a standout brand out of those two or three? Netatmo seems to be cheaper than the others but don't mind paying the bit extra to get it right from the start.

Are these things in any way easy to fit (from the point of view of someone who can change a light fitting or plug and drain/remove a rad!) or is it best to get someone in to do the job?

I already have regular TRVs - is there an easy way to see if they'd be straight-forward to swap with smart ones down the line?

bk

Netatmo (which I have) and Tado are both very good and both support Smart TRV's

The question is do you have a hot water zone and how do you control it. As that might eliminate Netatmo for you.

Tado is probably the more flexible option in terms of house homes.

flogen

bk wrote: »

Netatmo (which I have) and Tado are both very good and both support Smart TRV's

The question is do you have a hot water zone and how do you control it. As that might eliminate Netatmo for you.

Tado is probably the more flexible option in terms of house homes.

I don't have a hot water zone at the moment - it's all in one. I've been told I can add something to be able to control them separately, so would like to keep that option open, but I guess I could effectively do that with lots of TRVs (though I wouldn't be at their current price!)

Is the Netatmo more limited in terms of what kind of controls it offers?

bk

flogen wrote: »

Is the Netatmo more limited in terms of what kind of controls it offers?

Netatmo can't control a hot water zone, Tado can with the extension kit.

Now it doesn't sound like you need the HW control at the moment, but if you want to keep that option open then you should go for the Tado.

flogen

bk wrote: »

Netatmo can't control a hot water zone, Tado can with the extension kit.

Now it doesn't sound like you need the HW control at the moment, but if you want to keep that option open then you should go for the Tado.

Great, thanks. Had been leaning towards Netatmo, largely because my energy provider was offering installation etc though might look and see what's involved in setting up the Tado.

bk

Don't get me wrong Netatmo is very good, I have it myself and I'm very happy with it. But my set up is very different to the "normal" Irish setup, I don't have a hot water cylinder and never will, so it didn't come into the decision for me.

I suspect you will have to pay a good bit more to get Tado, so you'll need to think if you will need it's extra features in future or not to justify the extra cost.

enfant terrible

bk wrote: »

Don't get me wrong Netatmo is very good, I have it myself and I'm very happy with it. But my set up is very different to the "normal" Irish setup, I don't have a hot water cylinder and never will, so it didn't come into the decision for me.

I suspect you will have to pay a good bit more to get Tado, so you'll need to think if you will need it's extra features in future or not to justify the extra cost.

What changes are required to control heating your water separately if your current system cannot do this? Is it a big job?

flogen

bk wrote: »

Don't get me wrong Netatmo is very good, I have it myself and I'm very happy with it. But my set up is very different to the "normal" Irish setup, I don't have a hot water cylinder and never will, so it didn't come into the decision for me.

I suspect you will have to pay a good bit more to get Tado, so you'll need to think if you will need it's extra features in future or not to justify the extra cost.

Yeah - to be honest I'm currently at the 'how long am I planning to stay here and how much am I willing to invest in the house?' stage right now. I may never bother to do things like add the hot water only option so may not be justified.

Did you install the Netatmo yourself and if so how did you find the process? By the looks of things the Tado essentially involves swapping out the existing thermostat (or in my case, timer controls) where as the Netatmo involves changing the wiring at the boiler itself.

bk

enfant terrible wrote: »

What changes are required to control heating your water separately if your current system cannot do this? Is it a big job?

I'm not a plumber (my knowledge is more on the techie side of this), but my understanding is that a separate motorised valve is placed on the pipe that leads to your hot water cylinder, a thermometer placed on the cylinder and the motorised valve wired to the boilers controls. It basically allows you to control the hot water to the cylinder separate from the rads.

However I would double check that over on the plumbing forum, as not really my area.

flogen wrote: »

Yeah - to be honest I'm currently at the 'how long am I planning to stay here and how much am I willing to invest in the house?' stage right now. I may never bother to do things like add the hot water only option so may not be justified.

Did you install the Netatmo yourself and if so how did you find the process? By the looks of things the Tado essentially involves swapping out the existing thermostat (or in my case, timer controls) where as the Netatmo involves changing the wiring at the boiler itself.

I did, and in my case it was super simple and one of the reasons I opted for Netatmo (saved money on getting someone in to do it). For my particular case it was a super simple almost drop in replacement of my existing thermostat/programmer. It took less then 15 minutes. However note my setup didn't involve electrical cables, just control cables. More common setups in Ireland would involve wiring of electrical cables, so depending on your skills and setup, you might want to get an installer/electrician in to do it.

BTW Netatmo is compatible with the electrically wired setups too, I just didn't need it in my particular case.

flogen

bk wrote: »

BTW Netatmo is compatible with the electrically wired setups too, I just didn't need it in my particular case.

Ah thanks - hadn't realised the Netatmo could be wired. Think I could handle a straight swap with the existing timer but am a bit uneasy about cracking open the boiler itself (even though the end result is probably much the same in terms of wiring)

bk

flogen wrote: »

Ah thanks - hadn't realised the Netatmo could be wired. Think I could handle a straight swap with the existing timer but am a bit uneasy about cracking open the boiler itself (even though the end result is probably much the same in terms of wiring)

It comes with a separate extension unit that you can put next to the boiler and power it from the boiler. The actual Thermostat is then wireless (runs on batteries) and can be moved around. You should check the install manual, but if you do it this way, I think most people would need an installer.

In my case I was able to just wire the thermostat as a replacement for the old one, which was also battery operated. But my setup is more likely what is common in mainland Europe, rather then UK/Ireland setup.

rom

flogen wrote: »

Hey all.

I've currently got a relatively modern boiler (a Vokera 25A) controlled by a basic electronic timer and would like to upgrade to some smart controls/thermostat.

We're both iPhone users so would ideally like something HomeKit-compatible - and I would like to have the option of adding smart TRVs down the line.

From what I can see that leaves me with a handful of options - namely Tado and Netatmo (and maybe the Ecobee4?).

So a few questions -

Am I missing any options there - or is there a standout brand out of those two or three? Netatmo seems to be cheaper than the others but don't mind paying the bit extra to get it right from the start.

Are these things in any way easy to fit (from the point of view of someone who can change a light fitting or plug and drain/remove a rad!) or is it best to get someone in to do the job?

I already have regular TRVs - is there an easy way to see if they'd be straight-forward to swap with smart ones down the line?

Have the same boiler ( from research its a pile of junk ) I am using two nests for it. Happy enough with it.

lordgoat

Rather than start a new thread I am going to jump in here (hope that's ok)

Recently moved into new house (second hand build). The heating and hot water is all in one. There's a physical valve you can turn to switch the rads off and just heat the hot water.

Boiler I have is a Vaillant ecotec 630 with a very basic on wall timer (the time is on a 24 dial and physically click the sections in to mark each hour)

I *think* my best option as the setup is right now is a Tado/Netamo with TRV's on the rads?

Would love some feedback, thanks

flogen

bk wrote: »

It comes with a separate extension unit that you can put next to the boiler and power it from the boiler. The actual Thermostat is then wireless (runs on batteries) and can be moved around. You should check the install manual, but if you do it this way, I think most people would need an installer.

In my case I was able to just wire the thermostat as a replacement for the old one, which was also battery operated. But my setup is more likely what is common in mainland Europe, rather then UK/Ireland setup.

I’ve much the same myself - timer in the living room that’s wired directly into the boiler.

My only (minor) reservation about the Netatmo is that it recommends taping up the now spare power supply wiring and leaving it to the side, where as the Tado has a blank slot that you can wire it into. Probably no big deal but the latter feels a little bit less amateur.

rom wrote: »

Have the same boiler ( from research its a pile of junk ) I am using two nests for it. Happy enough with it.

Don’t tell me that - I only got it last year!

wexfordman2

lordgoat wrote: »

Rather than start a new thread I am going to jump in here (hope that's ok)

Recently moved into new house (second hand build). The heating and hot water is all in one. There's a physical valve you can turn to switch the rads off and just heat the hot water.

Boiler I have is a Vaillant ecotec 630 with a very basic on wall timer (the time is on a 24 dial and physically click the sections in to mark each hour)

I *think* my best option as the setup is right now is a Tado/Netamo with TRV's on the rads?

Would love some feedback, thanks

Seems to me that the manual valve can be replaced by an automatic one, and that gives you a two zone system handy enough.

A single nest would do this then, but you need to look at his this would be wired, as the wiring for the automatics valve and the control for the boiler have to be in the same place for both if them to be controlled from the single nest heat link

lordgoat

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Seems to me that the manual valve can be replaced by an automatic one, and that gives you a two zone system handy enough.

A single nest would do this then, but you need to look at his this would be wired, as the wiring for the automatics valve and the control for the boiler have to be in the same place for both if them to be controlled from the single nest heat link

Thanks dude. The valve is in the hotpress and currently the boiler (and time control are a good bit away). Think I'll be stuck with everything as is until after christmas. Still broke after buying the place!

That said if there was a good deal...

squishey

Have something similar in terms of setup (gas combi boiler and single zone radiator) and ended up going with Heat Genius. Can start with basic option to control heating on/off or by schedule and add trvs and extra sensors as needed.

lordgoat

squishey wrote: »

Have something similar in terms of setup (gas combi boiler and single zone radiator) and ended up going with Heat Genius. Can start with basic option to control heating on/off or by schedule and add trvs and extra sensors as needed.

Thanks squish! Happy with the set up? Easy to install?