Dooradoyle Bikelane/footpath

zulutango

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It was designed as a shared use cycle/walking path. All users are aware of this. A normal footpath along a road is not designed for bicycle users. The difference is obvious, but as usual you're just being obtuse.

Not being obtuse at all. I don't think you can point out how the shared path to UL along the riverbank has design features that make it more safe for pedestrians and cyclists to interact than a regular footpath has. You're saying it's a completely different design, but you well know, and anybody who is on it knows full well that that's just rubbish.

LB6

santino wrote: »

Hi All,

Quick update, I emailed a local Councillor asking for clarification. He kindly forwarded me an email he received from the Council which confirms 'there has been no down-grading of the cycle-lane at this location, it is just that the markings have faded over time. We will arrange shortly to have these markings renewed'.

I'm going to take the optimistic view on this one and hopes that it helps cyclists and pedestrians if and when it happens. Watch this space...

Please GOD you told him to put directional arrows on them for the ejits that cycle against the traffic on them. :-)

Mr.H

zulutango wrote: »

Not being obtuse at all. I don't think you can point out how the shared path to UL along the riverbank has design features that make it more safe for pedestrians and cyclists to interact than a regular footpath has. You're saying it's a completely different design, but you well know, and anybody who is on it knows full well that that's just rubbish.

the design means f@@k all. You shouldnt be cycling on a normal footpath!!

If you where to be pedantic you could pick out the fact that along the canal walk it mentions it is a shared space for cyclists and pedestrians which in itself is a design.

Speaking of, the cyclists out there dont seem to realise that they are not supposed to be travelling at high speeds out there because of pedestrians.

zulutango

I'm just pointing out the inconsistencies in the points put forward by others here.

Cyclists shouldn't be cycling on footpaths, but in the absence of safe roads, it is the best option. You'll regularly see cyclists cycling on the footpaths on the Shannon Bridge, for example. And you can't really blame them given how dangerous the road is since it was redesigned to enable increased traffic volumes some years ago. The sooner it is redesigned again and this time to include cycle lanes the better.

Why can't they dismount from their bicycle when they need to use the footpath? You know like walk with the bike alongside them like they're legally supposed to do? Not tear along the footpath knowing they can't be hurt by the vulnerable pedestrians. They're basically doing to us pedestrians what the motorists do to them and they get so upset about. Lots of them are complete pigs and then there's the total gimps that silently cycle up behind you. Have to laugh at the ****wits with safety gear and vis stuff when they're cowardly up on the footpath.

I challenged one gimp one day and his excuse was that the road was too dangerous for the poor dear. Why don't you alter your route or like I said walk with the bike? I'll you why: laziness. They can't be bothered walking but they don't want the negative side of cycling so they get up on the path and have the best of both worlds.

I wonder what the excuse is for the winners who break red lights and cycle the wrong way down a one way road?

zulutango

Deleted User wrote: »

They're basically doing to us pedestrians what the motorists do to them and they get so upset about.

That's not really true now is it? 15 cyclists have been killed by motorists in Ireland this year. Zero pedestrians have been killed by cyclists.

Vladimir Poontang

Thread is a pretty good example of the kind of attitudes that make this country difficult to live in at times

Mr.H

I do agree that we need safer bicycle lanes in this city and country as a whole. I also believe that not every cyclist is a bad one, just like not every driver is a bad one.

But all that aside is not excuse to cycle on a footpath. While stats are not there to show how many pedestrians are killed by cyclists, it is absolutely moronic to believe that not one pedestrian has been hit by a cyclist. So killed, may be not. Injured or hurt, yes definitely. The problem is there are no stats to back that up other than common sense.

Some might argue that a pedestrian being hurt by a cyclist is not as bad as a cyclist being killed by a driver (no matter which party is the reason for that death). Those people are selfish.

A car belongs on the road. If I think the road is too dangerous Im not going to start driving on the footpath am I??? ffs ridiculous argument. If the roads are too dangerous then dont cycle

zulutango

Mr.H wrote: »

While stats are not there to show how many pedestrians are killed by cyclists, it is absolutely moronic to believe that not one pedestrian has been hit by a cyclist. So killed, may be not. Injured or hurt, yes definitely. The problem is there are no stats to back that up other than common sense.

I'd say it's moronic to imply that anybody has suggested this.

Mr.H wrote: »

Some might argue that a pedestrian being hurt by a cyclist is not as bad as a cyclist being killed by a driver (no matter which party is the reason for that death). Those people are selfish.

Those people are not selfish. They are correct. To suggest that a car or truck will likely do more damage to a cyclist than the damage a cyclist will do to a pedestrian has nothing at all to do with selfishness. It's a fact.

Mr.H wrote: »

A car belongs on the road. If I think the road is too dangerous Im not going to start driving on the footpath am I??? ffs ridiculous argument.

Yes, that is indeed a ridiculous argument. How'd you come up with that one?

Mr.H wrote: »

If the roads are too dangerous then dont cycle

That's quite a backward approach. Given that there are so many positives for society in getting more people cycling a more sensible approach is to make dangerous roads safer.

Mr.H

zulutango wrote: »

I'd say it's moronic to imply that anybody has suggested this.

Yet you dont think it matters that a pedestrian could be hurt by someone wrongfully cycling on the footpath

Let me ask you this. What scale of "hurt" do you think a little child would suffer by some idiot cycling fast on the footpath??

zulutango wrote: »

Those people are not selfish. They are correct. To suggest that a car or truck will likely do more damage to a cyclist than the damage a cyclist will do to a pedestrian has nothing at all to do with selfishness. It's a fact.

Yes they are selfish

You have missed the point of what I said. Doing any damage is a bad thing. Cycling on the footpath and putting pedestrians in danger is the mindset of selfish morons.

zulutango wrote: »

Yes, that is indeed a ridiculous argument. How'd you come up with that one?

The argument that I implied is ridiculous is the one you are trying to start.

zulutango wrote: »

That's quite a backward approach. Given that there are so many positives for society in getting more people cycling a more sensible approach is to make dangerous roads safer.

Maybe making cyclists take a cycle test might go a long way toward your ideal but until people using the road actually know the rules then I dont think they belong there either. Before you give the usual "most cyclist drive as well" rubbish, not all do. The 16 year old at work cycles every day to work. He wouldnt have a notion of the rules of the road. In fact he has been knocked off his bike twice while going through a solid red light.

Sensible approaches would be everyone using the road actually knowing how to do so. Also the fact that they will know they are not allowed to use the footpath. But I am sure you already knew that part..........................

LimerickCity

Cycling on a footpath is illegal. Any parent who encourages their children to cycle on a footpath is breaking the law.

zulutango

Mr.H wrote: »

Let me ask you this. What scale of "hurt" do you think a little child would suffer by some idiot cycling fast on the footpath??

What scale of hurt do you think an idiot would suffer when hit by a little child cycling on the footpath?

Mc Love

Pedestrian crossings arent bicycle crossings, I've seen maybe one cyclist dismount and walk across, out of the hundreds I've seen that cycle across and then continue their journey on the road!

Pedestrian footpaths are just that - for pedestrians, if there is no cycle lane, then cyclists should use the road, regardless of how dangerous it is, and isnt a motorway, then they should be perfectly competent to cycle on the road, if not, then they shouldnt cycle, simple as.

Mr.H

zulutango wrote: »

What scale of hurt do you think an idiot would suffer when hit by a little child cycling on the footpath?

you tell me? your the one that thinks its ok.

Im not talking about a 3 year old girl with stabilisers on her bike ffs. Im talking about grown adults who are scared of the road so they cycle at full speed on a footpath where THEY ARE THE DANGER to pedestrians.

Its not just kids who are fragile by the way. Not everyone is sturdy and able to take a hit from some selfish moron on a bike.

This is the last response to you on this matter though unless you actually start debating with actual sense instead of coming across like someone looking for attention.

Mc Love

Mr.H wrote: »

you tell me? your the one that thinks its ok.

Im not talking about a 3 year old girl with stabilisers on her bike ffs. Im talking about grown adults who are scared of the road so they cycle at full speed on a footpath where THEY ARE THE DANGER to pedestrians.

Its not just kids who are fragile by the way. Not everyone is sturdy and able to take a hit from some selfish moron on a bike.

This is the last response to you on this matter though unless you actually start debating with actual sense instead of coming across like someone looking for attention.

It's not funny but getting a wheel driven into the back of your leg/ankle from any bike is sore!

Mr.H

Mc Love wrote: »

It's not funny but getting a wheel driven into the back of your leg/ankle from any bike is sore!

More than sore for some people

zulutango

Mr.H wrote: »

you tell me? your the one that thinks its ok.

Im not talking about a 3 year old girl with stabilisers on her bike ffs. Im talking about grown adults who are scared of the road so they cycle at full speed on a footpath where THEY ARE THE DANGER to pedestrians.

Its not just kids who are fragile by the way. Not everyone is sturdy and able to take a hit from some selfish moron on a bike.

This is the last response to you on this matter though unless you actually start debating with actual sense instead of coming across like someone looking for attention.

I never once said it was ok. In fact, I said it wasn't but you blithely ignored because it didn't fit with your anti-cycling rhetoric. I pointed out that the danger presented to pedestrians by cyclists on footpaths is not in the same league as the danger cyclists face on the roads. It is stupid to suggest otherwise. People cycling on paths really isn't a big problem. People getting killed or seriously injured while cycling is a big problem.

The real issue is that we have dangerous roads. 15 cyclists have been killed this year. They were competent, experienced cyclists cycling legally and doing everything right. The grown up, rational response to that shouldn't be to say that cyclists are the problem. It should be to make the roads safer for cyclists.

Mc Love

zulutango wrote: »

I never once said it was ok. In fact, I said it wasn't but you blithely ignored because it didn't fit with your anti-cycling rhetoric. I pointed out that the danger presented to pedestrians by cyclists on footpaths is not in the same league as the danger cyclists face on the roads. It is stupid to suggest otherwise. People cycling on paths really isn't a big problem. People getting killed or seriously injured while cycling is a big problem.

The real issue is that we have dangerous roads. 15 cyclists have been killed this year. They were competent, experienced cyclists cycling legally and doing everything right. The grown up, rational response to that shouldn't be to say that cyclists are the problem. It should be to make the roads safer for cyclists.

While it is unfortunate that those competent cyclists died, it is the same for motorbikes, its part of the risk you take not being in a cage while cycling. Just because a road is dangerous doesnt mean its perfectly acceptable to cycle on footpaths. If there's room on the footpath I'll always make sure there is room for them to pass but if there isnt, I'm not going to get out of their way if they dont have the courtesy to dismount or stop to let me pass.

Mr.H

zulutango wrote: »

I never once said it was ok. In fact, I said it wasn't but you blithely ignored because it didn't fit with your anti-cycling rhetoric.

just read the next part.............

zulutango wrote: »

I pointed out that the danger presented to pedestrians by cyclists on footpaths is not in the same league as the danger cyclists face on the roads. It is stupid to suggest otherwise. People cycling on paths really isn't a big problem. People getting killed or seriously injured while cycling is a big problem.

You also said "in the absence of safe roads its the best option".

This is saying that it is ok. You are saying that it is ok.

zulutango wrote: »

The real issue is that we have dangerous roads. 15 cyclists have been killed this year. They were competent, experienced cyclists cycling legally and doing everything right. The grown up, rational response to that shouldn't be to say that cyclists are the problem. It should be to make the roads safer for cyclists.

Ok here is a logical debate that I will actually give you credit for. Lets stay off the subject of footpaths because obviously you see nothing wrong with it and I do.

Yes roads have become very dangerous for cyclists. I think we do need to make the roads safer. We need to get to the bottom of why so many cyclists have been killed. Its a sensitive subject so Im not going to talk about any actual incidents.

If it was up to me I would take a 5 pronged approach to easing the danger.

• Investigate accidents and publish the details to make people aware of what actually happened. If the driver was in the wrong, drivers will hopefully learn. If the cyclist was in the wrong, hopefully cyclists will learn.
• cyclist license. If you wanna cycle on the road then get a license. A lot of places are talking about this now. Los Angeles and parts of the UK are bringing one in. Poland already have a similar system. Germany and France are talking about introducing one. ensuring everyone on the road knows how to use the road will go a long way to making it safer.
• Punish Cyclists who break the law. Three strikes. You go through a red light, cycle on a footpath or pedestrian crossing, not wear adequate safety equipment or cycle the wrong way down a one way road. These would all result in fines. But if you have any three of these against you in a certain period (I would say 28 days) then the bike is impounded and sold at auction.
• Punish drivers who break the law and are aggressive on the road. I know its hard to catch but if a driver is being aggressive towards a cyclist they should be punished. Also when drivers get 10 penalty points (for this purpose it doesnt matter if your points have been cleared after two years. When you get your 10th ever point then this is you) they should have to resit a rules of the road test. If they get 20 they should have to do the actual driving test again.
• Start a drivers education style system in schools. Replace religion and teach kids as young as 10/11 the basis of road safety. When they reach 15 start to teach them how to drive. Make them do their drivers test in school. Doesnt need to be a leaving cert subject or anything but do it in school.

I feel like this would go a long way to making roads safer for everyone

zulutango

Unfortunate that 15 cyclists died ... but part of the risk. Are you suggesting that it's an acceptable number of deaths? If you are not suggesting that, then what do you propose should be done about it? Ban cycling perhaps?

Cookiemunster

I'd like to point out that cyclists can and have killed pedestrians. It may not happen often, but it happens.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/14/cyclist-charlie-alliston-killed-pedestrian-blamed-crash-kim-briggs-court-told

zulutango

Mr.H wrote: »

Ok here is a logical debate that I will actually give you credit for. Lets stay off the subject of footpaths because obviously you see nothing wrong with it and I do.

Yes roads have become very dangerous for cyclists. I think we do need to make the roads safer. We need to get to the bottom of why so many cyclists have been killed. Its a sensitive subject so Im not going to talk about any actual incidents.

If it was up to me I would take a 5 pronged approach to easing the danger.

• Investigate accidents and publish the details to make people aware of what actually happened. If the driver was in the wrong, drivers will hopefully learn. If the cyclist was in the wrong, hopefully cyclists will learn.
• cyclist license. If you wanna cycle on the road then get a license. A lot of places are talking about this now. Los Angeles and parts of the UK are bringing one in. Poland already have a similar system. Germany and France are talking about introducing one. ensuring everyone on the road knows how to use the road will go a long way to making it safer.
• Punish Cyclists who break the law. Three strikes. You go through a red light, cycle on a footpath or pedestrian crossing, not wear adequate safety equipment or cycle the wrong way down a one way road. These would all result in fines. But if you have any three of these against you in a certain period (I would say 28 days) then the bike is impounded and sold at auction.
• Punish drivers who break the law and are aggressive on the road. I know its hard to catch but if a driver is being aggressive towards a cyclist they should be punished. Also when drivers get 10 penalty points (for this purpose it doesnt matter if your points have been cleared after two years. When you get your 10th ever point then this is you) they should have to resit a rules of the road test. If they get 20 they should have to do the actual driving test again.
• Start a drivers education style system in schools. Replace religion and teach kids as young as 10/11 the basis of road safety. When they reach 15 start to teach them how to drive. Make them do their drivers test in school. Doesnt need to be a leaving cert subject or anything but do it in school.

I feel like this would go a long way to making roads safer for everyone

Would you support a reduction in speed limits on roads that are dangerous for cycling?
Would you agree with increased investment in cycle lanes?
Would you agree to motorists undertaking a certain number of hours cycling as part of their driving test so that they understand the vulnerability of cyclists?

Mc Love

zulutango wrote: »

Unfortunate that 15 cyclists died ... but part of the risk. Are you suggesting that it's an acceptable number of deaths? If you are not suggesting that, then what do you propose should be done about it? Ban cycling perhaps?

Never said its acceptable but its the risk you take when on a motorcycle/bicycyle. You're not offered the same level of protection you get from a car. Car's are only one part of the problem, a friend of mine was seriously injured cycling on the road when a dog ran out in front of him. There's other things out there that can cause harm to cyclists too though.

Still doesnt make it right that you can cycle on a path, when there's a road there.

zulutango wrote: »

Would you support a reduction in speed limits on roads that are dangerous for cycling? No
Would you agree with increased investment in cycle lanes? Yes
Would you agree to motorists undertaking a certain number of hours cycling as part of their driving test so that they understand the vulnerability of cyclists? God no - why would you do that?

I would agree that maybe a licence is needed to use a bicycle on roads.

LimerickCity

Cycling on the footpath is illegal. 
Anyone on here suggesting that a member of he public, be it an adult or a child should use the footpath for cycling is an idiot.

LimerickCity

Mc Love wrote: »

zulutango wrote: »

Unfortunate that 15 cyclists died ... but part of the risk. Are you suggesting that it's an acceptable number of deaths? If you are not suggesting that, then what do you propose should be done about it? Ban cycling perhaps?

Never said its acceptable but its the risk you take when on a motorcycle/bicycyle. You're not offered the same level of protection you get from a car. Car's are only one part of the problem, a friend of mine was seriously injured cycling on the road when a dog ran out in front of him. There's other things out there that can cause harm to cyclists too though.

Still doesnt make it right that you can cycle on a path, when there's a road there.

zulutango wrote: »

Would you support a reduction in speed limits on roads that are dangerous for cycling? No
Would you agree with increased investment in cycle lanes? Yes
Would you agree to motorists undertaking a certain number of hours cycling as part of their driving test so that they understand the vulnerability of cyclists? God no - why would you do that?

I would agree that maybe a licence is needed to use a bicycle on roads.

The majority of people driving most likely have as much experience as the majority of cyclists on the road. A large number of motorists also cycle as an activity.
Maybe when the bicycle license comes in we can have driving as part of their cycling test so that they understand the vulnerability of motorists.

zulutango

Mc Love wrote: »

Would you agree to motorists undertaking a certain number of hours cycling as part of their driving test so that they understand the vulnerability of cyclists? God no - why would you do that?

The clue is in the question.

here's some more reading for you - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2012/aug/06/cycling-lessons-driving-licence

zulutango

On the issue of introducing a bicycle license, we'd be up there with such progressive countries as Zimbabwe if we did that. Nice idea lads - http://road.cc/content/news/205652-zimbabwe-introduces-bicycle-licensing-12-months-jail-those-who-dont-pay

Other jurisdictions have tried it and all have abandoned it.

Cookiemunster

zulutango wrote: »

Would you support a reduction in speed limits on roads that are dangerous for cycling?
Would you agree with increased investment in cycle lanes?
Would you agree to motorists undertaking a certain number of hours cycling as part of their driving test so that they understand the vulnerability of cyclists?

In 2016 (the last year that full figures have been released for) 10 cyclists (not 15) were killed on Irish roads. That compares to 81 drivers, 38 passengers, 35 pedestrians and 22 motorcyclists. http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Road-Safety/Our-Research/Deaths-injuries-on-Irish-roads/

Every death is one too many, but 10 is a very small number and you are totally over reacting to the dangers from motorists.
What are your suggestions to make roads safer for motorists, pedestrians and motorcyclists? Ban cars maybe?

amcalester

Mr.H wrote: »

just read the next part.............

• cyclist license. If you wanna cycle on the road then get a license. A lot of places are talking about this now. Los Angeles and parts of the UK are bringing one in. Poland already have a similar system. Germany and France are talking about introducing one. ensuring everyone on the road knows how to use the road will go a long way to making it safer.
  

I feel like this would go a long way to making roads safer for everyone

Any evidence for this? I can find opinion pieces suggesting this but nothing to say licences are being introduced in LA or the UK.

In some countries children are not allowed cycle on the road unless a certain age, have passed a test or both but I don't think any of the countries you have listed require adults to have a licence (or are seriously thinking about introducing one).

FWIW I don't think people should cycle on footpaths.

Mc Love

Cookiemunster wrote: »

What are your suggestions to make roads safer for motorists, pedestrians and motorcyclists? Ban cars maybe?

Going from their agenda on here, maybe thats the solution.