We’ve had abortions!/We haven't had abortions!

Carry

The above was the title page of the then renowned German magazine Stern in the year 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We%27ve_had_abortions!).

374 prominent and ordinary women confessed publicly that they had an abortion at a time when it was still illegal in Germany. I remember it well because I thought it was very brave of these women to admit something which was not only illegal but also strictly and morally condemned. They not only had to fear prosecution (which didn’t happen) but also being shunned by all the people who quickly climbed up their moral high horse.

It caused a shìtstorm, of course, but it also caused a necessary societal discussion. The feminists, which were at that time really fighting for basic rights (I was a bit later one of them), pushed the agenda and three years later the German parliament (women are voters too, you know) decided to legalise abortion on demand up to 12 weeks of pregnancy.

It wasn’t that easy though. The conservatives fought over the years tooth and nail against it. The current situation is more complicated but under certain circumstances (and under 12 weeks) abortion is still legal as far as I know (I live too long in Ireland to know everything what’s going on in Germany).

Long story short: I’m wondering if any woman in Ireland or more precisely here on boards would confess that she had an abortion. I’m not nosy, I still think that the more women say it out loud the more their predicament will be heard. And every abortion is a predicament that all those moralistic foetus-savers will never understand.

Boards is a small platform to start, but at least it’s a start.
So boardsistas, anyone?

Yes, I’ve had an abortion and it was a horrible and humiliating experience.

I’m not interested in the usual arguments that are discussed to death in other threads about abortion. I’m interested in experiences of women who went through this ordeal.

Fighting Tao

This will end well.

222233

Carry wrote: »

Long story short: I’m wondering if any woman in Ireland or more precisely here on boards would confess that she had an abortion. I’m not nosy, I still think that the more women say it out loud the more their predicament will be heard. And every abortion is a predicament that all those moralistic foetus-savers will never understand.

Yes, I’ve had an abortion and it was a horrible and humiliating experience.

I really like the idea behind this thread, I do think removing the "Secrecy" will remove a lot of the stigma, I often wonder if the secrecy causes more harm to people who already find themselves facing an incredibly difficult decision. (I do respect that it is a medical procedure and therefore not everyone would want to shout it from the rooftops, irrespective of the stigma that practically forbids disclosing it, just incase someone says or thinks something awful).

Thankfully I have never been in that position, but if I had to make that decision I would consider all of my options. Thanks for sharing your story, I'm just sorry you couldn't have been treated at home.

notsoyoungwan

This is something I often think about - I'm a 38 year old woman with a wide circle of friends. I don't know of anyone who has had an abortion. Statistically, surely at least one of my friends, or maybe even sisters, must have had one, but I'm not aware of it. My friends would say the same. It saddens me that someone close to me would feel they had to keep it to themselves, for fear of shame, judgement, abuse etc.

lazybones32

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

fryup

notsoyoungwan wrote: »

It saddens me that someone close to me would feel they had to keep it to themselves, for fear of shame, judgement, abuse etc.

welcome to ireland,

Fighting Tao

And it's started.

Carry

Fighting Tao wrote: »

And it's started.

The contractions?

Ulysses Gaze

Wibbs

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

So maybe we can keep the ideolgies and conspiracy theories out of it and just have a rational debate?

Hahahahhahahaha. Oh hang J, you're serious? God forbid rationality comes into things. Sadly.

Oops!

I know 3 women that have went to the UK for an abortion... 2 of them were in their early 20's and in short term relationships at the time... 10 years on they both think what might have been but do not regret the decision now as they would of not ended up where they are now, career wise and happy... The 3rd woman had one in her late 30's with a new partner after a 15 year relationship ended with her first partner whom which she had a number of children with.... That was a number of years ago and she suffers bouts of depression ever since over it.... It's a tough call... In my opinion it's down to the individuals involved and there suitation... I'm male by the way. I could hardly believe it when i found out you could have an abortion on a medical card for free in the UK... Very popular with the inner city chav youths...

splinter65

fryup wrote: »

welcome to ireland,

There’s loads of things people keep to themselves and it’s nothing to do with being ashamed or afraid.
A wide range of people use porn to relax and achieve some semblance of sexual release, and are not ashamed or afraid, they just don’t think it’s a conversation topic that could be maintained
Millions of people have had plastic surgery, a spot of Botox, a tummy tuck.
And they want to keep it to themselves.
An adult has an abortion. You made the decision yourself, you went through it. It’s over now. There may or may not be emotional consequences. You live with them if there are.
It’s one of the most emotive topics in the entire world.
People who have had problems conceiving or have had children die may be extremely upset if they have overheard your discussing having had a termination, it’s a private thing.

gctest50

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

You poor thing

A bag of shopping - that's all you were worth

splinter65

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

I heard a lady on the radio who was spared being aborted because when her maternal grandmother took her pregnant mother to three different abortion clinics in the States back in the 70s, she was so revolted by the lack of hygiene ( the granny was a nurse herself) they gave up and went home.
She was too afraid her daughter would die of a sepsis.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Oops! wrote: »

Very popular with the inner city chav youths...

The fact probably don't suit your agenda, but here you go;

Abortion rates for those aged under 25 have shown some decline over the last ten years. The decline is particularly marked in the under-16 and 16-17 age groups where the rates have both halved since 2006. In particular the abortion rate in the 16-17 age group declined from a peak of 23.4 per 1,000 women in 2007, to 10.8 per 1,000 women in 2016.

The abortion rate for 18-19 year olds also declined from 33.3 per 1,000 women in 2006 to 23.0 per 1,000 women in 2016, and for those aged 20-24 the rate also declined from 32.5 per 1,000 women in 2006 to 27.0 per 1,000 women in 2016.

For women over the age of 25, abortion rates have seen marginal increases in recent years. Rates for those aged 25-29 are only slightly lower in 2016 (23.6 per 1,000 women) than 2006 (24.3 per 1,000 women), but rates have increased over the last four years, having fallen to 21.8 per 1,000 women in 2012.

Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/652083/Abortion_stats_England_Wales_2016.pdf

Vela

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

If you were never born, you wouldn't be around to care about whether you were around or not.

Canis Lupus

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

Your mom will do anything for a new pair of shoes is all I took away from that story.

lazybones32

Vela wrote: »

If you were never born, you wouldn't be around to care about whether you were around or not.

But i was born. Had i died anytime since, i wouldn't be around to care about whether i was around or not...
I prefer life though.

splinter65

lazybones32 wrote: »

But i was born. Had i died anytime since, i wouldn't be around to care about whether i was around or not...
I prefer life though.

Your dad wanted you so bad he humored a confused alcoholic woman into giving birth to you. The greatest day of your mothers life the day you were born, even though she doesn’t know that.
Your a miracle lazybones, a survivor. Enjoy every day.

Vela

lazybones32 wrote: »

But i was born. Had i died anytime since, i wouldn't be around to care about whether i was around or not...
I prefer life though.

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.

• A foetus isn't a baby.
• A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.
• A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

I thought I had an abortion once but in reality it was just a big poo

splinter65

Vela wrote: »

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.

• A foetus isn't a baby.
• A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.
• A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

Why don’t you just come straight out and tell lazybones that he/she needs to just get over the fact that his/her mother had to be bribed not to get rid of him, and that he/she owes the mother for the huge sacrifice she made?
Far too much faffing around ....

Tenigate

Carry wrote: »

I’m not interested in the usual arguments that are discussed to death in other threads about abortion. I’m interested in experiences of women who went through this ordeal.

Here ya go, sista..
https://youtu.be/wNWWVnKNK6o

I'll never forget that day as I watched in horror as a doctor dismembered and removed the baby's bloody limbs – and I had to account for all the pieces.

PandaPoo

I found out I was pregnant at 17 and my friend told me she had 2 abortions and I should have one. She hasn't a maternal bone in her body and it was the right decision for her. I didn't have an abortion, and that was the right decision for me.

I know a woman who has had 3 abortions, and 2 other women who have had 1. Only 1 of them has ever expressed a slight regret now that she is struggling to conceive and is in her mid 30s.

uch

From a fella's perspective, I fully understand and support your point of view, I was in the situation when I was about 18, lovely girl, good relationship, but the accident happened, I had no preference either way, but she was a career girl and it would have ruined it for her, she chose termination and I stood by her 100%, it was an awful affair in Brighton altogether, we moved on and split up as many kids do, but I regularly think of what might have been, then I think of the problems I've had with illegal substances and gargle and think what kind of life would the child have had, in hindsight, it was the right decision, but it doesn't make it any easier, Never a day goes by when I don't think about it, but at the same time I don't regret a thing

Carry wrote: »

The above was the title page of the then renowned German magazine Stern in the year 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We%27ve_had_abortions!).

374 prominent and ordinary women confessed publicly that they had an abortion at a time when it was still illegal in Germany. I remember it well because I thought it was very brave of these women to admit something which was not only illegal but also strictly and morally condemned. They not only had to fear prosecution (which didn’t happen) but also being shunned by all the people who quickly climbed up their moral high horse.

It caused a shìtstorm, of course, but it also caused a necessary societal discussion. The feminists, which were at that time really fighting for basic rights (I was a bit later one of them), pushed the agenda and three years later the German parliament (women are voters too, you know) decided to legalise abortion on demand up to 12 weeks of pregnancy.

It wasn’t that easy though. The conservatives fought over the years tooth and nail against it. The current situation is more complicated but under certain circumstances (and under 12 weeks) abortion is still legal as far as I know (I live too long in Ireland to know everything what’s going on in Germany).

Long story short: I’m wondering if any woman in Ireland or more precisely here on boards would confess that she had an abortion. I’m not nosy, I still think that the more women say it out loud the more their predicament will be heard. And every abortion is a predicament that all those moralistic foetus-savers will never understand.

Boards is a small platform to start, but at least it’s a start.
So boardsistas, anyone?

Yes, I’ve had an abortion and it was a horrible and humiliating experience.

I’m not interested in the usual arguments that are discussed to death in other threads about abortion. I’m interested in experiences of women who went through this ordeal.

Ave Sodalis

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

Can I add another point of view on this, especially considering the final line?

I don't know if my mother ever considered aborting me. However, I would have (if I had any sort of consciousness or awareness afterward) completely understood if she did. Yes, I like the fact I am alive obviously. I don't wish to be dead, or to not have been born. That doesn't change the fact that I made my mother's life very difficult by being born. Being a single teenage mother in the early 90s was not easy. For example, she had to leave school, she often went hungry at the end of the week to feed me because she didn't have enough money, she had to fend off bible wielding high horses that came to take me from her etc. Now I mean it all worked out in the end, but why on earth would I wish that sort of life on anyone I claim to care about? She was barely more than a child herself and she had to sacrifice so much.

lazybones32

Vela wrote: »

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.

• A foetus isn't a baby.
• A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.
• A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

When a human female is impregnated, which species is she reproducing?

ANXIOUS

Vela wrote: »

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.

• A foetus isn't a baby.
• A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.
• A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

It all comes down to personal opinion and I think for people to try and generalize it that way is wrong.

Not necessarily only in the context of abortion but also in others contexts in particular miscarriages. I am reading a harrowing thread elsewhere about family's trying to get miscarriages at 25 weeks registered. Which I fully understand and support.

But we can't have one branch of the government recognizing this and another not.

Carry

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

I'm sorry to hear that, lazybones. It must hurt to hear that you are only alive because of a shopping trip . Of course you are glad to be alive, but you see, in this thread it's not about you or the babies, it's about the women who struggle to make a difficult decision.

Does anyone ever think about the women?

Did you ask your mother why she didn't want a child? Did you ask her about her circumstances, and her feelings? Did you ask yourself why she needs to get drunk? Did you ask yourself what your being alive did to her life?

If you care about life so much, please try to care about your mother's life, too, and try to put yourself in her shoes.

Nitrogan

How much is an abortion ?

(horrific question for a lot of people)

The economics aren't the issue now but I'd just like to know how much someone spends on going to a clinic in the UK etc. must be near 600-700?

The_Valeyard

We need to abort this thread and have a megathread..

Carry

The_Valeyard wrote: »

We need to abort this thread and have a megathread..

No.

The_Valeyard

Carry wrote: »

No.

Yes.

maxsmum

My sister had a termination because the baby had Down Syndrome. That's controversial here, but she told me in countries where they test routinely 100% of women do the same.
It cost her all in all with the test etc about a grand. She stayed overnight in UK.

LirW

My mother told me that she had an abortion when I was around 9.
She's was a single mother of two girls (our dad wasn't around, he became an alcoholic after I was born) at that point and had a coil fitted, money was really tight and we struggled so much.
She was briefly dating a guy but it was difficult and she found out she was pregnant despite being on birth control.
Since it was oh so tough as it was she decided she can't feed another child and couldn't put more struggle on me and my sister. She decided against the child.

I don't judge her in the slightest, I think it was the right decision, because we had it tough, she had birth control, got pregnant nontheless. Sometimes life is a real bitch. And it was humiliating for her, especially the activists that assaulted her in front of the clinic.

GritBiscuit

Nitrogan wrote: »

How much is an abortion ?

(horrific question for a lot of people)

The economics aren't the issue now but I'd just like to know how much someone spends on going to a clinic in the UK etc. must be near 600-700?

Depends on the treatment/gestation of pregnancy but ranges from around €500 up to around €1700 - not including travel and accommodation. The Abortion Support Network gives multiple supports and can sometimes help out with costs for those in financial hardship.

CalamariFritti

Although I do have an opinion about it I'm not really interested getting involved in any kind of abortion debate. However, there is an argument being brought up which I'm struggling with from a logical angle.

People who found out that their own abortion was on the cards once for example (I am probably one of them, my older sister was still born). Or people who know someone with a disability so severe they're not even sentient. And they're grateful for their own or that other person's existence. And of course they are.

But isn't it it that only our self awareness allows us to have such thoughts in the first place? So if you had never been or never reached sentience your argument would have never existed, but probably someone else's would exist instead of you. Who is now grateful for their existence instead of you and since you've never been you might as well conclude that this someone else person is in fact you. And the moment this 'someone else' is their argument is inherently stronger than anyone's who only potentially was.

I don't know I think I'm making a hash of this, philosophical arguments are obviously not my strong point, but it probably comes down what 'being' actually is. Maybe someone who spent more time thinking about this and better able to articulate it can help me out here.

Neon_Lights

No I drive a Ford not aborsh

RhubarbCrumble

A friend of mine contemplated it a couple of years ago and asked me if I'd go to the UK with her. I said yes but she decided against it in the end and had the baby. She loves her child but she's still with the child's father and it's not the best relationship. Her own Dad is great though. Right from the start she got amazing support from him.

uck51js9zml2yt

Vela wrote: »

Ummm, I don't think you get it.

You said that "babies" would like to live too.

• A foetus isn't a baby.
• A foetus can't miss a life it hasn't been born into.
• A foetus doesn't care whether it's born or not, because it's a foetus.

If you knew you were going to die now, you'd want to live, because you've experienced life. That's a totally different scenario to a foetus being aborted.

A foetus has a heartbeat. That heartbeat can stop. It's alive.
It reacts to stimuli. It's alive. Abortion removes that life.

On a more philosophical note. You've had interactions with people which I assume on the most part they have benefited from ( I assume) how much poorer would those lives have been without you existing.
It's a wonderful life!

dinorebel

Fighting Tao wrote: »

This will end well.

Unlike the pregnancy.

splinter65

Carry wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear that, lazybones. It must hurt to hear that you are only alive because of a shopping trip . Of course you are glad to be alive, but you see, in this thread it's not about you or the babies, it's about the women who struggle to make a difficult decision.

Does anyone ever think about the women?

Did you ask your mother why she didn't want a child? Did you ask her about her circumstances, and her feelings? Did you ask yourself why she needs to get drunk? Did you ask yourself what your being alive did to her life?

If you care about life so much, please try to care about your mother's life, too, and try to put yourself in her shoes.

Probably might have discussed things more with his/her mother if she hadn’t been so keen to remind him/herthat she only allowed him to live because she got a shopping spree out of it.
Just maybe this mother is just not a very nice person? It does happen.

_Dara_

dinorebel wrote: »

Unlike the pregnancy.

If the woman wants it to end in abortion then it’s ending well.

suicide_circus

I know one girl who "took the boat". It's was both the right choice at the time and something she'll never get over...A horrible no win situation really.

A Little Pony

Carry wrote: »

The above was the title page of the then renowned German magazine Stern in the year 1971 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We%27ve_had_abortions!).

374 prominent and ordinary women confessed publicly that they had an abortion at a time when it was still illegal in Germany. I remember it well because I thought it was very brave of these women to admit something which was not only illegal but also strictly and morally condemned. They not only had to fear prosecution (which didn’t happen) but also being shunned by all the people who quickly climbed up their moral high horse.

It caused a shìtstorm, of course, but it also caused a necessary societal discussion. The feminists, which were at that time really fighting for basic rights (I was a bit later one of them), pushed the agenda and three years later the German parliament (women are voters too, you know) decided to legalise abortion on demand up to 12 weeks of pregnancy.

It wasn’t that easy though. The conservatives fought over the years tooth and nail against it. The current situation is more complicated but under certain circumstances (and under 12 weeks) abortion is still legal as far as I know (I live too long in Ireland to know everything what’s going on in Germany).

Long story short: I’m wondering if any woman in Ireland or more precisely here on boards would confess that she had an abortion. I’m not nosy, I still think that the more women say it out loud the more their predicament will be heard. And every abortion is a predicament that all those moralistic foetus-savers will never understand.

Boards is a small platform to start, but at least it’s a start.
So boardsistas, anyone?

Yes, I’ve had an abortion and it was a horrible and humiliating experience.

I’m not interested in the usual arguments that are discussed to death in other threads about abortion. I’m interested in experiences of women who went through this ordeal.

Why would you think making a thread like this isn't going to get people who disagree with abortion? It's a very decisive and polarizing subject. It makes the gay marriage debates look like a picnic. People are very passionate about it.

_Dara_

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why would you think making a thread like this isn't going to get people who disagree with abortion? It's a very decisive and polarizing subject. It makes the gay marriage debates look like a picnic. People are very passionate about it.

The OP probably wanted to approach it from a different angle, hearing from women who have been through it. The other threads are more theoretical. She explicitly lays out what she hopes for the thread to achieve.

eviltwin

I had an abortion nine years ago. I was in my 30's and married, we already had a child. I'm very open about it, only one person I know had an issue with it. Everyone else we know, including his elderly mam and my holy Joe relatives didn't care. It's harder to push the image that those having abortions are evil baby killers when you know them as nice, decent people which we are. It was the best decision for us and I don't feel any regret or shame. I know it doesn't reflect on my character. It's not something I think about outside this debate. Would I do it again if I could go back? Absolutely.

Tenigate

_Dara_ wrote: »

She explicitly lays out what she hopes for the thread to achieve.

Seems like she (or he) is trying to create an echo chamber and is pushing a liberal agenda.

One More Toy

Just my 2 cents

Abortions remind me of chemo (of which i am unfortunately very familiar)

No body in a million years would go down the route willingly; both horrible experiences but necessary

The pro-life loons (read: Iona) think that every woman in ireland will open their legs on a friday night and not wear a condom. Ridiculous. But the right wing media have thrown fuel on this fire


Abortions for all, minature irish flags for some I say

Tenigate

One More Toy wrote: »

The pro-life loons (read: Iona) think that every woman in ireland will open their legs on a friday night and not wear a condom.

Not sure what kind of women you associate with but that's not how condoms work

One More Toy

Tenigate wrote: »

Not sure what kind of women you associate with but that's not how condoms work

Hi Cora!