We’ve had abortions!/We haven't had abortions!

MrPudding

January wrote: »

There are of course avenues you could take if you really wanted to know if you had other offspring out there. Hiring a private investigator would be one.

Would it even need a PI? Would Facebook and some simple maths not suffice?

MrP

January

MrPudding wrote: »

Would it even need a PI? Would Facebook and some simple maths not suffice?

MrP

Yeah it might do, that's assuming his ex has FB in the first instance though really. If she doesn't it's a bit harder.

If it were me I'd simply call the grand mother and ask her out straight, I'd tell her I planned to see a solicitor to get it sorted anyway if she didn't tell the truth so it would make it easier on all involved if she just told me straight out.

DickSwiveller

Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »

My wife, with whom I've had 4 kids had an abortion in her early 20's.
Her mother is English so it was no bother going bag shopping in Liverpool for a few days.
I was found it reassuring that there wouldn't be a seconds debate if any of our kids had shown an abnormality.
I don't understand why any logical intelligent person in this day an age would proceed with a pregnancy which could leave to a life of hardship.

Going by your logic, if abortion was legal in Ireland in the 1930's there would be no children born in Ireland.

Carry

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Going by your logic, if abortion was legal in Ireland in the 1930's there would be no children born in Ireland.

You're in the wrong thread.

.......

This post has been deleted.

January

Btw the topic in the pregnancy forum is about how the 8th amendment effects maternity care not abortion.

LirW

January wrote: »

Btw the topic in the pregnancy forum is about how the 8th amendment effects maternity care not abortion.

Which I think is an incredibly underrated topic. Some of the stories there are absolutely humiliating and I can't get my head around the fact that the bad early pregnancy care in Ireland is directly linked to the 8th won't be picked up as a topic in the debate.

January

LirW wrote: »

Which I think is an incredibly underrated topic. Some of the stories there are absolutely humiliating and I can't get my head around the fact that the bad early pregnancy care in Ireland is directly linked to the 8th won't be picked up as a topic in the debate.

It's a topic the anti choice side refuse to discuss so it's not something that gets much airtime. Which is unfortunate because as we know the 8th is so much more than abortion.

LirW

It was quite a shock from me to go through the system here when I had my first back home. I had care of a proper gynaecologist on a 3-4 week base, GP exam and since every gyn needs to have a good Ultrasound machine I had an ultrasound from my very first appointment on, free of charge. Miscarriages are so closely monitored, blood is, everything is and if you lose your child in week 7, so be it, you'll get treatment straight away in the hospital the same or the next day without question after diagnosing the death of the embryo. Every woman has the right to the same care covered under a "mother child pass" where it's mandatory to attend if you want child benefit.

No woman should go through the distress of bad care, which, in early pregnancy, has the 8th as the main factor. That is sickening.

LadyMacBeth_

LirW wrote: »

It was quite a shock from me to go through the system here when I had my first back home. I had care of a proper gynaecologist on a 3-4 week base, GP exam and since every gyn needs to have a good Ultrasound machine I had an ultrasound from my very first appointment on, free of charge. Miscarriages are so closely monitored, blood is, everything is and if you lose your child in week 7, so be it, you'll get treatment straight away in the hospital the same or the next day without question after diagnosing the death of the embryo. Every woman has the right to the same care covered under a "mother child pass" where it's mandatory to attend if you want child benefit.

No woman should go through the distress of bad care, which, in early pregnancy, has the 8th as the main factor. That is sickening.

Sorry, can I ask how the 8th amendment affects early pregnancy care? I'm actually just curious, I believe in repealing the 8th by the way.

SusieBlue

LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »

Sorry, can I ask how the 8th amendment affects early pregnancy care? I'm actually just curious, I believe in repealing the 8th by the way.

There's a thread over in Pregnancy and Parenting about it, it's a real eye opener.

Mod note:Apologies, WhiteRoses, but it's best if this discussion takes place in the particular forum.

Buford

Buford T. Justice XIX

LadyMacBeth_ wrote: »

Sorry, can I ask how the 8th amendment affects early pregnancy care? I'm actually just curious, I believe in repealing the 8th by the way.

Mod Note:Sorry, LadyMacBeth, it's best if that discussion takes place in the aforementioned forum, please.

Also, folks, please desist from taking the discussion off topic. Discussion of other threads belongs in those threads and will only serve to close this discussion down.

Thanks in advance,

Buford T. Justice

Ann84

I almost had an abortion...
In fact, that same pregnancy almost ended in adoption, and despite all attempts to not become a parent, I still ended up one and I have had many regrets.

This is the honest truth.
At 20 I had an unplanned pregnancy, found out when heading into my final year in college. I had been taking the pill for 5 years at that stage and had been in a long term relationship with no issues... 4 months into a college fling, and I got pregnant. Both of us gutted, neither of us wanting to become parents.
He reacted badly, dumped me and wanted nothing to do with me, told me if I kept it I was on my own. I didn’t want to be pregnant, I was heartbroken, I didn’t want to become a mom, I wanted to travel, start a career, meet someone and do it right... I didn’t have family support (nore did I want it!)
So, I went to London with himself if tow - one of the worst 18 hours of my life, having to travel to England with a man who hates you and is just making sure you have a termination is HORRIBLE! So, get to the clinic - he stands outside fuming that he is there and the more upset I get, the more annoyed he got.
I go in, the nurse was so nice, asked me who I was there with, asked me if he wanted it - I said no and she calmly said that I was just too visibly upset to continue, she knew I was Irish (she had an Irish accent too!) and told me to go for a walk and come back in an hour if I still wanted to go through with it, so I left and walked out to “I knew you wouldn’t do it”
I couldn’t go through with it, I wanted to because the alternative was worse but I couldn’t and it was the worst feeling coming home with the Dad stewing - knowing that I was going to continue the pregnancy.
But I still didn’t want to be a parent, so started down the route of adoption, suffered very bad from depression throughout the pregnancy but got some pre-adoptive counseling. I had a plan, Dad was out after not going through with termination - he agreed with adoption as wanted nothing to do it.
I am not able to properly explain the social judgement, being publicly pregnant in college and on the street was awful, I still remember...
Had the baby, left hospital 2 days later with baby going to pre-adoptive foster care, it was horrific emotionally and physically. I saw baby for 1 hour each week, was working to find parents, in my final year of college and then...
Dads mom decides she’ll adopt baby - I don’t want baby to be raised by Dads mom because I wanted to give it parents who were more stable than her, it had been my choice (or so I thought as he walked during pregnancy)
3 months of court fighting for my chosen adoptive route to be told i take baby or baby goes to Paternal gran - hardest decision of my life to take baby home - suffered severe post-natel depression, handing baby back from foster mom at almost 6 months...
I thought I had done the right thing for me not having a termination, thinking I could put baby for adoption only to find I had no say at the end of it all... gutted.
I am a parent now for many years, I did not want to become a parent then. I have struggled a lot over the years but life has turned out good, am married, I buried my contempt for baby dad and we successfully share parent however, I have felt regret many many times over the years.
I love my child but I wish I had never had an unwanted pregnancy - it was a no win.
My now husband wants to try for a baby and it has sent me into a complete emotional breakdown and am in counseling to try to deal with my fear based on my previous experience.

Some of my views based on my experience and some of those of friends who have had terminations:
- Crisis pregnancy is a lose lose/ win win depending on the individual
- Adoption is NOT a simple alternative/ answer
- Irish women should not have to travel to England to access abortion
- Ireland’s needs better support/ counseling services
- I am a tough cookie, I cannot imagine a softer soul dealing with an unplanned pregnancy - it is very difficult so I take a sympathetic view
- People who do not have abortions have regrets too
- It works out for some - an unexpected pregnancy has been the making of some people but not for all
- I had financial support, my life now would be entirely different had I not finished college and fallen into the single parent poverty trap

And finally, no I don’t believe I would have gone through with the termination had I been able to access in Ireland (I have been asked this!) I may have reconsidered had I know adoption would not have worked out - I love my child but it wasn’t my choice to become a parent and that crisis pregnancy has had lasting emotional and psychological effects which are still impacting my life.

I am massively sympathetic to any woman who finds herself unhappily pregnant (irrelevant of reason) because it can be extremely difficult and I just can’t judge/ decide for them based on my experience. Thanks for reading...

LirW

Jesus christ Ann84, that was a tough read

moco

I was 24 and living in London. Met an Irish guy over there in the summer and was seeing him for about 6 weeks before he went back to uni in Sligo. We only ever had sex once and that was the night he was leaving. I liked him and we kept in touch a little bit after he went back but we lost contact. Then I found out I was pregnant. All my life I’ve never been ambitious, never really wanted anything other than to be a mother, but in that moment I knew I couldn’t have the baby. I was broke, in debt, behind on my rent and had a ****ty paid job. I just couldn’t go back to my parents pregnant either. I was always made to feel like a bit of a problem child and I felt like I’d have been proving them right.

I looked into getting a termination on the internet and went to the gp the next morning. How it worked was someone wanting an abortion had to get 2 doctors to sign it off. One being the GP and the other was the doctor at the Marie Stopes clinic. The GP had no hesitation signing it off. I’d already broken down crying in the waiting room when the receptionist said she had no appointments. I was feeling suicidal. I had no money to go private so getting the termination through the NHS meant waiting for 2 weeks. It was the longest most surreal 2 weeks going to work as normal, while my body was starting to feel different. Part of me was wondering if a cot would fit in my studio flat. I tried calling the dad but his UK phone had been cut off at that stage so I couldn’t get in touch with him. These were the days before Facebook etc. I don’t even know if I’d have spoken if he had answered. I was so confused.

Because it was so early in the pregnancy I was able to have a medical termination. On the Wednesday I went and took some pills at the clinic then on the Friday I had to go back and take some more that would start a miscarriage. There were a load of people with graphic pictures of aborted foetuses outside the clinic shouting as I walked in which was awful, but I felt like I deserved it. I was 8 weeks and 5 days pregnant on the day of the termination.

For a long time afterwards I felt very vulnerable and lost. I went out drinking a lot because I didn’t want to stay at home alone. I felt like I had done something that would put a black mark against me forever. I had been totally anti-abortion and never thought in a million years that it was something I would do. A few weeks after my best friend rang me to say she was pregnant. She had just got married and was delighted. I found that really hard to handle because our babies would have been the exact same age. Then I thought it would have just highlighted how her child would have 2 parents and would have everything, and mine would have nothing and we’d be scraping by.

A few years later the father got in touch on Bebo and then Facebook. He used to try and get me to meet up, but even though I liked him it would have been too strange and I’d have always had to keep the abortion a secret so I never did.

I’m married now and have a beautiful baby daughter. We had a lot of trouble conceiving (nothing to do with me or the termination) but I did always wonder if it was punishment for what I did. I don’t actually regret the abortion, but at the same time I don’t know if I’d do it again if I could go back in time.

RabbleRouser2k

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

I've spent a few days wondering whether to post here or not and after a bit of discussion with my OH decided to eventually. I will, of course, deny ever having posted here in future:)

I was struggling with a particular subject in final year in college when I decided to ask one of the assigned post-grad mentors for help in getting to grips with the subject as she was doing her post-grad in this subject. Anyway, after a few tutoring sessions, I suddenly understood a particular concept and all the rest fell into place. I thanked her and would often have a chat with her when our paths crossed in college or socially afterwards.

I eventually accepted an offer of a post-grad in the Dept she was studying in and we started a relationship later, nothing serious but enjoyable for as long as it would last. She was a few years older than me and was due to finish when she became pregnant, which was quite a shock to both of us. After much discussion we decided to have the child, with me accepting a job offer and her finishing her post-grad and deciding what to do afterwards.

I arrived at her flat one morning to give her a lift into college and met the landlord at the door, telling me she had moved out the night before, with no telling me. I rang her home and her mother told me she decided to go to England to finish writing up her thesis and stay with family over there after having a termination.

I was shocked, tbh, as she had vehemently argued in favour of keeping the child even though it would be extremely difficult for both of us. Her mother also told me she didn't want to hear from me again, which I accepted but with a heavy heart.

Life moved on, I met my OH and married and we had a child and I would occasionally see my ex at conferences and just nod hello in passing and walk on, that was the limit of our contact to that point. One day, in the local town, I was walking out of a shop with the eldest lad, about 6 months old, in my arms when my ex and her mother walked past. I nodded hello and was walking away when she said, 'Your second?', smirked and walked away.

This was the first time I had any indication that she had had anything other than a termination and I was in a daze for a good while afterwards. To this day, I have no idea whether I have an older child out there somewhere and no way of ever finding out unless they show up on my doorstep some day.

I'm at an age and health now where succession planning is becoming important for my family but, tbh, I have no idea how many children to provide for. There is no formula or legislation out there to help us decide what to do so we made provision for a child that we don't know exists or not.

I see the current rallying cry of 'My body, my choice!' and, while I agree, I also despair. The logical direction of that catch cry is a progression in removing all rights to children from men but, concurrently, assigning all the responsibilities for provision for any child being born to the father of that child. I don't think it's not overly unfair to say that assigning all the responsibilities and none of the rights to the father is tyranny. I may not have an older child at all or they may show up on my deathbed or afterwards and cause absolute pandemonium, I may never know:(

I despair at what I perceive to be a continuing removal of a fathers rights to even know that his child exists and I cannot vote for that. There is no easy choice in the forthcoming referendum. Certainly, a woman should have a right to decide on having a child or not but there also has to be some consideration to the other parent also.

Where to draw that line, I have no idea but probably around the point where both sides are equally incensed.

Forgive me for the length of the post but it has been over 20 years being written. I'm not looking for sympathy or an argument here, just putting my experience forward as a reasonable, I hope, reason why I will be opposing the referendum.

Understandable, for definite, even if we may disagree, I can understand.

There's been some discussion in other countries and certain US states regarding fathers being informed about their children-this has become a hot topic issue. Some US states (I don't know if it applies to all) allow dad's know the location of their kids, or if they were a dad without their knowledge-and to know where the kid is.

The reason it's become a hot topic is because women who've been raped or underwent artificial insemination often find that their rapist or donor is entitled to know where their children are. Now for someone who donated sperm this may not be a problem, for those who were raped...the last thing they want is their rapist back in their lives. But because of biology, and essentially a legal loophole that doesn't cover every circumstance, it happens.

RDM_83 again

January wrote: »

Considering 0.2% of abortions are carried out after 20 weeks and most are for ffa and threat to mothers life then it's a very small amount we are talking about here.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Tigger wrote: »

its not its leading and logical
so at what number of weeks should it no longer be up to the mother

Well in the UK it is allowed up to 24 weeks. less than 2% of all abortions occur after 20 weeks and are almost always for medical reasons. That cut off point seems to work ok. I think it's safe to say that there wouldnt be an epidemic of women terminating late stage pregnancies on a whim even without the limit

Every single thread on this topic this line gets trotted out, the thing is there is no proof at all that most late term abortions in the UK are for medical reasons and the best indications I have seen is that the most common cause is social reasons.

If there is any substance to the claim please post it as I have posted this response a bunch of times and it's always ignored (and since boards.ie is now a pile of muck on mobile I can't requote myself so have had to type it out again :-/ ).

Here is a link to a bpass survey highlights backing up my point, the figure for serious medical problems is 1/3, and this is by bpas who campaign on a pro-choice outlook.

https://www.bpas.org/media/2027/late-abortion-report-v02.pdf

Yes this reply is snarky and possibly inappropriate to the thread but this is idea is always put forward without any damn proof! And it's a pain in the ass finding links each time.

Annasopra

blarrah wrote: »

I cant provide statistics on the regret-level of the population of Ireland for those who have gone through abortion.

But neither can you.

Actually there are a number of studies showing low levels of regret

http://time.com/3956781/women-abortion-regret-reproductive-health/

http://www.contraceptionjournal.org/article/S0010-7824(16)30410-3/abstract

GritBiscuit

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Every single thread on this topic this line gets trotted out, the thing is there is no proof at all that most late term abortions in the UK are for medical reasons and the best indications I have seen is that the most common cause is social reasons.

Late term abortion is an emotively charged term and thus has been used interchangeably to describe an abortion merely out-with the first trimester or one beyond certain viability (at 27 weeks). In the UK since the introduction of the Abortion Act 1967, abortion can only be carried out after 24 weeks if there is risk to the mother's life of fetal abnormality. The study you refer to is discussing the circumstances around why abortions are sought from 20-24 weeks, which would be between zero viability and on the very cusp of possible healthy viability.

The latest government statistics for England & Wales suggest that in 2015 while 8% of abortions are carried out were after 20 weeks, only 0.1% were carried out after 24 weeks.

gctest50

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Every single thread on this topic this line gets trotted out, the thing is there is no proof at all that most late term abortions in the UK are for medical reasons and the best indications I have seen is that the most common cause is social reasons.

If there is any substance to the claim please post it as I have posted this response a bunch of times and it's always ignored (and since boards.ie is now a pile of muck on mobile I can't requote myself so have had to type it out again :-/ ).

Here is a link to a bpass survey highlights backing up my point, the figure for serious medical problems is 1/3, and this is by bpas who campaign on a pro-choice outlook.

https://www.bpas.org/media/2027/late-abortion-report-v02.pdf

Yes this reply is snarky and possibly inappropriate to the thread but this is idea is always put forward without any damn proof! And it's a pain in the ass finding links each time.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Here is a link to a bpass survey highlights backing up my point,

nope

they are talking up to the legal limit of 24 weeks :

........ performed after 20 weeks (and before the legal limit of 24 weeks) has remained stable, accounting for between 1 to 2% of all terminations performed.........

https://www.bpas.org/media/2027/late-abortion-report-v02.pdf


17 of the 28 the women were not aware of their pregnancy until shortly before presenting at BPAS.
Reasons for later recognition include contraceptive use and irregular periods.
These women were not delayed in accessing services by a third party.
They were unable to begin the decision-making process earlier because they did not know they had a decision to make.

RDM_83 again

Too the two replies to my post.

January says that 0.2% of abortions are carried out after 20 weeks , this is incorrect even according to one of the replies.
Taking 2-8% as the figure for post 20 weeks procedures and post 24 weeks as 0.2% then for post 20% abortion the majority are "social" even with every one post 24 weeks being "medical".

Ceadaion also references the post 20 weeks and also mentions the 24 week cut off so is refering to terminations within that period.

I am not sure if this is a deliberate tactic by those strongly pro-choice but I don't think it's too much to ask for people to actually read the posts I quoted!

The idea that most later term abortions happen for medical reasons appears to be an article of faith for some pro-choice people that's not based on evidence but hey its the right opinion so it doesn't matter :-/

Anyway some links please that contradict my statement about post 20 weeks abortions (I expect silence though or ignoring the time frames mentioned in both posts I quoted to shift the goal posts).

eviltwin

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Too the two replies to my post.

January says that 0.2% of abortions are carried out after 20 weeks , this is incorrect even according to one of the replies.
Taking 2-8% as the figure for post 20 weeks procedures and post 24 weeks as 0.2% then for post 20% abortion the majority are "social" even with every one post 24 weeks being "medical".

Ceadaion also references the post 20 weeks and also mentions the 24 week cut off so is refering to terminations within that period.

I am not sure if this is a deliberate tactic by those strongly pro-choice but I don't think it's too much to ask for people to actually read the posts I quoted!

The idea that most later term abortions happen for medical reasons appears to be an article of faith for some pro-choice people that's not based on evidence but hey its the right opinion so it doesn't matter :-/

Anyway some links please that contradict my statement about post 20 weeks abortions (I expect silence though or ignoring the time frames mentioned in both posts I quoted to shift the goal posts).

Why are you even bringing the topic of late term abortion into this thread in the first place?

SusieBlue

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Too the two replies to my post.

January says that 0.2% of abortions are carried out after 20 weeks , this is incorrect even according to one of the replies.
Taking 2-8% as the figure for post 20 weeks procedures and post 24 weeks as 0.2% then for post 20% abortion the majority are "social" even with every one post 24 weeks being "medical".

Ceadaion also references the post 20 weeks and also mentions the 24 week cut off so is refering to terminations within that period.

I am not sure if this is a deliberate tactic by those strongly pro-choice but I don't think it's too much to ask for people to actually read the posts I quoted!

The idea that most later term abortions happen for medical reasons appears to be an article of faith for some pro-choice people that's not based on evidence but hey its the right opinion so it doesn't matter :-/

Anyway some links please that contradict my statement about post 20 weeks abortions (I expect silence though or ignoring the time frames mentioned in both posts I quoted to shift the goal posts).

Why can you not trust and respect Irish women (and couples) to make the best decision they can, for themselves, taking into account their own particular circumstances?

How does it actually directly affect you if a woman 50 miles away who is on her own, financially unstable, no support, crap circumstances etc. decides to terminate a pregnancy?

Why do you think your morals and opinions are superior to another person having the ability to control what happens their body, and how their life pans out?

What kind of people do you associate with to say you think hundreds of women around the country will suddenly go about willy nilly getting late term abortions because they can't be bothered to be pregnant? Is it a case that you have family/friends who you believe would do such things?

RDM_83 again

eviltwin wrote: »

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Too the two replies to my post.

January says that 0.2% of abortions are carried out after 20 weeks , this is incorrect even according to one of the replies.
Taking 2-8% as the figure for post 20 weeks procedures and post 24 weeks as 0.2% then for post 20% abortion the majority are "social" even with every one post 24 weeks being "medical".

Ceadaion also references the post 20 weeks and also mentions the 24 week cut off so is refering to terminations within that period.

I am not sure if this is a deliberate tactic by those strongly pro-choice but I don't think it's too much to ask for people to actually read the posts I quoted!

The idea that most later term abortions happen for medical reasons appears to be an article of faith for some pro-choice people that's not based on evidence but hey its the right opinion so it doesn't matter :-/

Anyway some links please that contradict my statement about post 20 weeks abortions (I expect silence though or ignoring the time frames mentioned in both posts I quoted to shift the goal posts).

Why are you even bringing the topic of late term abortion into this thread in the first place?

And why are you only saying that to my post now when it was fine to talk about later term abortions earlier when misinformation was used to make late term abortions seem more palatable.
If you had called out the pro-choice posters I quoted earlier it would seem a lot less like dismissing the evidence as it is negative to your views

Boom_Bap

I've updated the title of this thread so that it's not just experiences from a single side. All experiences with abortion are welcome in this thread.

eviltwin

RDM_83 again wrote: »

And why are you only saying that to my post now when it was fine to talk about later term abortions earlier when misinformation was used to make late term abortions seem more palatable.
If you had called out the pro-choice posters I quoted earlier it would seem a lot less like dismissing the evidence as it is negative to your views

I saw a mod post earlier in the thread directing posters to other threads for debate on the rights and wrongs of abortion. I don't see why its in here too. Its a hard thing to discuss even on a message board like this, I am finding the various stories very informative and they are giving me lots of food for thought. I would hate to see anyone who has a story, especially those who have had a late term abortion, put off from posting because of the judgement from those who are anti abortion.

January

I've been using old statistics, if you want updated ones of all the abortions performed in 2016 in England (185,596), 3,033 of them were past 20 weeks. That gives a figure of 1.63% of abortions past 20 weeks. I'll hold my hands up here but 1.63% is not a big number.

PeterParker957

I wouldn't have one myself - at least I don't think I would - but I am moved by the stories here on both sides from both male and female.

I'm not so much pro-choice as I don't believe anyone feels like the decision they made is a "choice" as such - but I am definitely pro - it's the decision of you and the other party if involved and whatever you decide, you live with - and we cannot and should not judge.

Bless you all for sharing - I really don't think I could go through what some of you have.

Carry

RDM 83 again, I'm sorry to hear that you still suffer from your late term abortion. I can understand that you are strictly against it. But I don't think it's good to turn your anguish against all those people in this thread (and elsewhere). Why don't you tell us what your experience with abortion is?
Thank you for participating.



I probbaly got it all wrong. :rolleyes:

pilly

I've had 2 abortions and this is probably the only time I've admitted that out loud.

The 1st was when my youngest (and third) child was 3 months old, I had almost died having her, lost 8 pints of blood and suffered horrific pain, never again was I going through that. Didn't hesitate, booked it, got the flight, went, told no-one except my husband. Went alone because he had to mind the kids. Didn't realise I was going to be knocked out and have a very painful operation. At that time they wouldn't allow you to take the abortion pill if you didn't live in the country, don't really remember why.

I don't regret if for a minute, myself and my husband split up 9 months later because he had been cheating on me ever since I was pregnant with my daughter. The only thought in my head at that time was "thank god I haven't got another child to look after as well".

I asked doctors if I could be sterilised at that stage, answer was "no, you're too young". In other words "you're still a baby machine". Watching the Handmaids Tale recently reminded me of that. It's like fertile women serve one purpose only.

2nd one was about 10 years later, was having casual relationship with someone, using both coil and condoms, still happened. Again I didn't hesitate. Again I had to go through the pain of an operation, (don't really know why this time, it was very early). Anyway, no regrets except for I did confide in a friend this time because I didn't have a close enough relationship with the man to gain any comfort from him (he did provide half the money after I'd emailed him the receipts).

She completely turned on me and said and did some vicious things to me and about me.

I now know it's because she was single and childless and envious but that didn't make it easier at the time.

I still to this day have never told anyone else about these abortions because I can do without the judgement. Everyone is entitled to their own view and opinion on anything, what they're not entitled to do is force those views down my throat.

I don't regret either of them. My children had a great quality of life because I didn't have the expense and stress of 2 more children and I've had a good life also. Win/Win.

Pilly that's an awful lot of trauma to go through Very difficult birth, the decision to have an abortion, your husband cheating, and then being faced with the decision again.

I'm curious about your last sentence. "Win Win".
It just seems kind of out of place or something in light of what you've been through. It's not my intention to offend I'm just trying to understand.

Apologies Pilly. You don't need to help me understand anything. It's for me to figure out my position in all of this.

pilly

What I mean by that is my children benefited from my decisions and so did I, I don't see any loser in the scenarios I described and certainly don't see myself as a victim.

May be a cold approach but I often look at families living in dire poverty and still continuing to have children and I think it's irresponsible.

Someone posted earlier thar something like 50 million more people would be around if it wasn't for abortion.

In my view a world with 50 million more people in it would be even worse than the dire situation we're in now.

Billy86

lazybones32 wrote: »

Being one of those "moralistic foetus savers that will never understand", who is also a male, i will briefly share my story.

In the October bank holiday weekend 2003, i met my drunken mother in a bar where she decided to confess to me - and those within earshot - that when she learned she was pregnant with me, she made plans to abort me. My dad had to bribe her to not kill me by taking her shopping in Dublin for a weekend.

Thanks to my dad, i'm alive.

So yeah, that's my experience and i'm so glad to be alive. I'm sure the other babies would like to live too, but fcuk them, right?

And what if your mother was raped at 17 by a family member, wasn't ready for parenthood at all, couldn't cope with the pressure, was completely cut off from the family because of the shame her being raped brought on them, wound up having to give birth to you but got depressed and involved in drinking and later heroin during the pregnancy. You got born with a degenerative disease that left you brain damaged and with a life expectancy of under 30 years of age all of which will be stuck in a wheelchair, and your mother tried to hide you from the outside world or keep you off the social services 'radar' resulting in your getting no education, no assistance or training for your special needs, huge levels of neglect, malnutrition and obscenely unsanitary health hazards around the house. Your mother continued to deteriorate into a mess who barely knows who or where she was at any given time, and then eventually when you were about 10 years old she overdosed, dead in her own 20s, leaving you stuck in the house completely stranded until eventually found by fortune before you died, all doing considerable further damage to your physical, mental and emotional condition. Now you're just entering your teens but the combination of all the factors to this point in your life mean doctors estimate there's no way you'll see your 18th birthday, or probably even your 16th, and you spend nearly all day every day fantasising about suicide just to end the misery that is all you've ever known and will ever know. The "beautiful, beautiful gift of life" can also be the complete fucking destruction of it.

I work admin in social services and deal with a lot of the stuff from cases etc, that is one of only a whole lot of similar ones I've come across in a short period of time.

Why not just fuck rape victims again, right?

January

pilly wrote: »

What I mean by that is my children benefited from my decisions and so did I, I don't see any loser in the scenarios I described and certainly don't see myself as a victim.

May be a cold approach but I often look at families living in dire poverty and still continuing to have children and I think it's irresponsible.

Someone posted earlier thar something like 50 million more people would be around if it wasn't for abortion.

In my view a world with 50 million more people in it would be even worse than the dire situation we're in now.

My aunt said something to me after I revealed my abortion to her something like 'yeah but you wouldn't do it again, right?'

No questions asked, if I found myself pregnant again (and let's not forget here I'm not a 'hussy', I'm using contraception and in a monogamous relationship) I'd be having another abortion. It's not a cold approach, it's not using abortion as contraception, it's taking responsibility for my family planning.

MrPudding

Deleted User wrote: »

Apologies Pilly. You don't need to help me understand anything. It's for me to figure out my position in all of this.

What I took from it was it was win/win in the sense that she, and her children, have a better life than they would have, had there been two extra kids.

Sorry if I got that wrong Pilly.

MrP

eviltwin

January wrote: »

My aunt said something to me after I revealed my abortion to her something like 'yeah but you wouldn't do it again, right?'

No questions asked, if I found myself pregnant again (and let's not forget here I'm not a 'hussy', I'm using contraception and in a monogamous relationship) I'd be having another abortion. It's not a cold approach, it's not using abortion as contraception, it's taking responsibility for my family planning.

I find people are more put out by my lack of regret than the abortion itself.

I wouldn't want to go through it again but like you, I'm in a place where physically and mentally I'm done so if we were unlucky enough to have a contraception fail I'd definitely have another abortion and I couldn't give a sh!t if that offends people. I'm the one who has to deal with the reality of another child, not them.

January

eviltwin wrote: »

I find people are more put out by my lack of regret than the abortion itself.

I wouldn't want to go through it again but like you, I'm in a place where physically and mentally I'm done so if we were unlucky enough to have a contraception fail I'd definitely have another abortion and I couldn't give a sh!t if that offends people. I'm the one who has to deal with the reality of another child, not them.

Yeah, it wasn't something I ever wanted to experience and it's not something I'd like to experience again.

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SusieBlue

Crea wrote: »

A childlike and under developed state is not autism. Autism is sometimes diagnosed in people with a severe developmental delay but the symptoms you describe have nothing to do with autism.
Please remember that when talking about eliminating autism we are also talking about eliminating the highly intelligent or creative people too.

I'm only speaking of my own experience. Those are his symptoms and autism is his condition. He also has global developmental delay, which I should have mentioned originally.
I'm not suggesting we eliminate all people with autism at all, especially seeing as many of those with the milder form lead very 'normal' lives. I'm not suggesting we test prenatal for it either. It isn't even about autism.
I'm simply appreciating the struggle my parents and family have gone through to bring him up and respecting the fact that not everyone would be able to do the same.
You have totally missed the spirit of my post but I stand by everything I said.

end of the road

....... wrote: »

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neither of those are relevant to the discussion. there is a difference between preventing a life and taking one. abortion is taking a life, taking the pill and contraception prevents it in the first place.

gctest50

end of the road wrote: »

neither of those are relevant to the discussion. there is a difference between preventing a life and taking one. abortion is taking a life, taking the pill and contraception prevents it in the first place.

how about the morning after pill ?


like you were asked ?

....... wrote: »

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Are you against the morning after pill? .......

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January

end of the road wrote: »

neither of those are relevant to the discussion. there is a difference between preventing a life and taking one. abortion is taking a life, taking the pill and contraception prevents it in the first place.

Contraception is not 100% effective.

eviltwin

How about people mind their own fcuking business? If you aren't going to be involved in raising and paying for any potential offspring you don't get a say.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Mod note: This thread is discussing peoples experiences of abortion and reasons why they had and didn't have abortions!

Now, any other items can be discussed elsewhere, the morals, statistics and other issues pertaining to abortion will start collecting cards, which, luckily, I have just received a whole new deck of and am starting to look for people to play with:rolleyes:

Take it elsewhere, folks, this is the final warning on this, resist the temptation!

Thanks in advance,

Buford T. Justice

Carry

It might sound a bit cheesy, but I'm immensely proud of all the people who came out so far with their stories about abortion or being confronted with the question of abortion or not.
It's enormously illuminating to read so many different experiences.

I honestly didn't expect it when I started the thread.

And thanks to the mods for keeping the thread on track.

05eaftqbrs9jlh

Three women I know of & one in my family has had an abortion. They were for a huge variety of reasons and all enormously traumatic experiences. I was practically the only person any of them told.

Two of my male friends were with women who accidentally became pregnant and had abortions very early in their pregnancy because they felt it was the wrong time/person/couldn't support the child.

Just as a side note, I'm not even particularly vocal about my support for repeal in my social circles, I'd advocate for it like anyone else and I guess I did a gig in support of the cause but I wouldn't personally have an abortion or anything. I think these various people told me this "secret" (which most didn't even tell their actual family members) because I'm not judgemental. I listened, said I was sorry and then felt sorry about it. What I was the most sorry about was that they felt it was a huge shame and secret. The fact that they felt they had to justify themselves to anyone, all because of idiotic, flawed, busybody's ideas.

Permabear

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Electric Sheep

eviltwin wrote: »

I find people are more put out by my lack of regret than the abortion itself.

That's because you are not keeping to the "script" - you are supposed to say it was terribly traumatic and you have been scarred forever, even though most women who have had an abortion felt relief rather than grief.