Ground rent

sflynn6

I am currently buying out the ground rent on my property and Ive been informed by the property registration office that the price of buying it out is going to DOUBLE from the 1st of January 2018. A lot of houses in the Dublin 15 area have this ground rent, its usually a bill that comes in twice yearly of around 20 euro. Anyway I just wanted to make people aware of the change coming down the tracks:mad:

Zaph

I'm shocked that ground rent is still a thing. I remember my parents buying theirs out in the 70s because there was a big push for people to do so at the time, but maybe that was just the residents association where they live pushing people to do it. It's such an antiquated notion, some government should have brought in legislation years ago to abolish it.

amtc

My parents tried to buy theirs out in 1970s...but the underlying issue was that the land was owned by Lord Lucan and he couldn't be found!

sflynn6

Yes a lot of people did buy them out in the 70's but a lot didn't as well. There was a court case about it around 1978 where it was decided it was to be a fixed charge yearly that could not be changed. But now this new legislation has come along. I'm trying to let people know that have not bought it out that this is on the way. A lot of houses in the Blanch / Castleknock area are effected by this. I think it will be a big issue when people realise whats happening. Ive seen no publicity around this whatsoever.

sflynn6

Tell your parents to try again and to contact the property office in the four courts- they will talk them through the process.

Markcheese

What's the story if you haven't paid in years? Do you have or get an equivalent of squatters rights..

Sleeper12

I thought they outlawed ground rent in the 90s. I forget how it went. I think they had to sell it to you for a ridiculously low price. Two years ground rent or something like that

Sleeper12

Markcheese wrote:

What's the story if you haven't paid in years? Do you have or get an equivalent of squatters rights..

It has to be paid in full at the time of selling the house or transfer ownership in the case of a death

sflynn6

if you have not paid in years they can only charge you 6 years of arrears, so if you are not paying them at the moment just continue not to pay. They charge you the 6 years when you decide to buy them out - plus 26 times the annual ground rent. That has been up to now under the 1978 legislation. After the 1st of january 2018 it will all be approx. double to buy it out.

K.Flyer

Some ground rent clauses were worded "... xx amount per annum If Demanded", which meant that if they didn't come looking for it you didn't fall into arrears. So the wording in the title deeds need to be examined carefully.

sflynn6

It does not have to be paid in full when transferring ownership and can be transferred to new owners. Ground rent is typically for 500 years - a small annual fee. But when selling it may effect the sale price. A property would be sold on as leasehold instead of freehold. Im trying to highlight here that the government seems to be allowing a situation that these owners of the leases can just double the price. And that people who want to buy it out have a window before the 1st of Jan to buy it out. T he process is straight forward- The property registration authority in the four courts negotiate on peoples behalf and you get the deal as above - instead of just paying them.

sflynn6

K.Flyer wrote: »

Some ground rent clauses were worded "... xx amount per annum If Demanded", which meant that if they didn't come looking for it you didn't fall into arrears. So the wording in the title deeds need to be examined carefully.

yes but if you don't pay they can only ever demand 6yrs arrears anyway if that makes sense

K.Flyer

sflynn6 wrote: »

yes but if you don't pay they can only ever demand 6yrs arrears anyway if that makes sense

It does, in your scenario the payment is expected and demanded, if you don't pay the max they can go back for arrears is 6 years.
In the scenario I described, in the title deed it said "if demanded" which meant that if payment is not asked for, then they don't get it, and no arrears would build up.

sflynn6

K.Flyer wrote: »

It does, in your scenario the payment is expected and demanded, if you don't pay the max they can go back for arrears is 6 years.
In the scenario I described, in the title deed it said "if demanded" which meant that if payment is not asked for, then they don't get it, and no arrears would build up.

OK.... I've never seen one of these agreements that says "if demanded" but I'm sure that these agreements were drawn up in various ways and written differently by different solicitors acting on behalf of the barony or estate.
But regardless I'm just trying to let people know that the price of buying them out is about to double.

Sleeper12

I always thought that the building company who built the estate was the ground landlord?

It wouldn't be the first time that I was wrong but I remember thinking that as the ground rent was being done away with the building companies started set up management companies instead. I'm my mind ground rent almost became management fees

sflynn6

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I always thought that the building company who built the estate was the ground landlord?

It wouldn't be the first time that I was wrong but I remember thinking that as the ground rent was being done away with the building companies started set up management companies instead. I'm my mind ground rent almost became management fees

Well no. The origin of ground rent was in the British aristocracy. In Ireland it was a legacy of the absentee landlord system. So for example my one originated in the Barony of Castleknock. The big difference is that a management company will at least provide some service but with a ground rent you receive absolutely nothing.
But a cap was put on what they could charge ( which is now changing) and I think that in this country they cannot introduce new ground rents and that is probably why they moved to this new management company model.