Caitlyn Jenner

splinter65

If Caitlyn Jenner insists that she has always felt that she was a woman, should she not return the Decathlon Olympic Gold Medal that Bruce Jenner (now a non existent entity) won in 1976, as the Decathlon is, always has been and will continue to be an exclusively male event ( as the heptathlon is exclusively female).
And by extension, return all the sponsorship money which, perhaps fraudulently, made the now non existent Bruce Jenner a millionaire ?

thee glitz

He only declared he was a she afterwards so it shouldn't be a problem.

The_Valeyard

Its an interesting point I suppose.

But as Bruce he did win those events in full compliance with the rules. Physically a male regardless of his own personal thoughts, so id say he should keep the records and trophies.

Pherekydes

If he/she was originally a woman, competing against women, then you might have a point, but there was nothing fraudulent about his/her win in 1976. Men's events are generally 'Open'. Anyone can enter them. Women don't because they generally have no chance.

retro:electro

No. Deciding to become a woman in your later years doesn't invalidate you of everything you've ever done when you lived as a man.

thee glitz

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Physically a male 

A male in a dress is a male in a dress is a male.

whoopsadoodles

If she was a woman and beat all the men then she should get even more medals \o/

Wanderer2010

What makes my skin crawl about this person is the fact that they have not ONCE come out publicly to apologize to the family of the motorist that she killed a few years back. I know it was an accident but that man is dead and his family have nothing but a grave to visit and yet Jenner just uses the whole thing as a narcissistic excuse to flaunt how SHE feels about it and how HER life is so complicated and hard.
FFS, show a tiny bit of humility and say how sorry you are for their loss instead of turning the whole episode into another whoring reality tv photo opportunity to get more column inches. If that were me, I would be guilty for the rest of my life and if I had her money id be giving the family some compensation. Jenner only cares about herself. Disgusting human being.

Rumpy Pumpy

Do you need to have a full sex change before you can play sport in codes for that sex? Like I’d love to win an All Ireland medal for Galway, and would stand a fair chance of making the camogie team, but I don’t want to have my balls removed and my cock turned inside out to create a fanny.

splinter65

anna080 wrote: »

No. Deciding to become a woman in your later years doesn't invalidate you of everything you've ever done when you lived as a man.

But if you are now insisting that only the female part of you be recognized then you can’t really say “... but what about that time I won the Decathlon...” as was the way Bruce accumulated his fortune.

Tenigate

splinter65 wrote: »

If Caitlyn Jenner insists that she has always felt that she was a woman,

Gonna stop ya right there.

It doesn't matter what Jenner feels. And the surgery and name change don't matter either.

Jenner is a man and he won his medals fairly.

I hope that answers your question.

DEFTLEFTHAND

She has said in the past that coming out as a conservative GOP supporter in Hollywood was a lot tougher than coming out as trans.

retro:electro

splinter65 wrote: »

But if you are now insisting that only the female part of you be recognized then you can’t really say “... but what about that time I won the Decathlon...” as was the way Bruce accumulated his fortune.

The person still won it. She won it when she was male, she's now a woman. You want her to externalise her achievements and say "remember when that dude won those medals?"..
The body achieved the medals not the gender

Tenigate

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

Do you need to have a full sex change before you can play sport in codes for that sex? Like I’d love to win an All Ireland medal for Galway, and would stand a fair chance of making the camogie team, but I don’t want to have my balls removed and my cock turned inside out to create a fanny.

Not sure about GAA but in other sports athletes are no longer subject to "humiliating gender tests" (which typically meant being watched pee when taking a drugs test.. women who remained standing were disqualified on account of not being women)

Previously the definition of "woman" in addition to "pees sitting down" was "doesn't have Y chromosomes" . Now because of tireless efforts by scientists (the social science kind) we know that a woman is someone who "identifies as a woman" and to make things fairer to actual women, the fake women should have low testosterone.

So there you have it. If you want to compete as a girl, change your name to Miss Rumpy Pumpy and take drugs to reduce your testosterone levels.

wakka12

What thats so silly..shes still the same person who just identifies by a different name and gender now

super_furry

splinter65 wrote: »

If Caitlyn Jenner insists that she has always felt that she was a woman, should she not return the Decathlon Olympic Gold Medal that Bruce Jenner (now a non existent entity) won in 1976, as the Decathlon is, always has been and will continue to be an exclusively male event ( as the heptathlon is exclusively female).
And by extension, return all the sponsorship money which, perhaps fraudulently, made the now non existent Bruce Jenner a millionaire ?

Why does this matter so much to you?

The Backwards Man

If my aunt had balls she could play snooker.

server down

anna080 wrote: »

The person still won it. She won it when she was male, she's now a woman. You want her to externalise her achievements and say "remember when that dude won those medals?"..
The body achieved the medals not the gender

This distinction between body and gender is beginning to feel quasi religious.

splinter65

Tenigate wrote: »

Gonna stop ya right there.

It doesn't matter what Jenner feels. And the surgery and name change don't matter either.

Jenner is a man and he won his medals fairly.

I hope that answers your question.

Hmmm.. won his medals fairly at the time, now appears to be asking for a history rewrite.
Agree though Bruce Jenner is a man and Caitlyn Jenner is a figment if an imagination I suspect is befuddled by the side effects of much steroid abuse back in the day.
Just my opinion.

Mod-Banned

Ken.

Mod-thread reopened. As per the charter any transphobia of any kind is forbidden. I will be keeping a close eye on this thread.

A Little Pony

anna080 wrote: »

splinter65 wrote: »

But if you are now insisting that only the female part of you be recognized then you can’t really say “... but what about that time I won the Decathlon...” as was the way Bruce accumulated his fortune.

The person still won it. She won it when she was male, she's now a woman. You want her to externalise her achievements and say "remember when that dude won those medals?"..
The body achieved the medals not the gender

Really?

Autochange

I see some people got warnings and bans for various reasons regarding jenners gender.

The way i see it is if you are born a man you are a man. Surgery, medication and anything else humans come up with cannot change what nature has designed. Jenner may think, sound, act and on some levels look like a woman but by design can never be one.

This is not transphobia as the mod mentioned previously this is accepting humans cannot change natures design.

retro:electro

A Little Pony wrote: »

Really?

What?

super_furry

Autochange wrote: »

The way i see it is if you are born a man you are a man. Surgery, medication and anything else humans come up with cannot change what nature has designed. Jenner may think, sound, act and on some levels look like a woman but by design can never be one.

Meanwhile other people disagree with you.

Irish Guitarist

It's politically incorrect to say this but this kind of thing seems unfair as fuck.

https://thewest.com.au/sport/weightlifting/transgender-weight-lifter-wins-female-title-bc-5365529663001

Ultimate Seduction

Did he/she feel like a woman when he/she was shooting sperm into his wife with his penis??

Tenigate

Every cell in his body has a Y chromosome, apart from some of his sperm cells

sonofenoch

anna080 wrote: »

No. Deciding to become a woman in your later years doesn't invalidate you of everything you've ever done when you lived as a man.

What about if it was done for the sole purpose of a bloody reality tv show .......which it was, I don't buy all the other bull****

The_Valeyard

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

It's politically incorrect to say this but this kind of thing seems unfair as fuck.

https://thewest.com.au/sport/weightlifting/transgender-weight-lifter-wins-female-title-bc-5365529663001

Yeah, i honestly do not know how I feel about that.

retro:electro

sonofenoch wrote: »

What about if it was done for the sole purpose of a bloody reality tv show .......which it was, I don't buy all the other bull****

Yep. Chop of my misters and change genders all for my tv show you guys. Gotta get those ratings!
:rolleyes:

suicide_circus

Sorry but no. I will not participate in this charade. The Caitlin Jenner saga will be judged by history as a saga of ghoulish fascination into a deeply crass and unpleasant family.

The_Valeyard

suicide_circus wrote: »

Sorry but no. I will not participate in this charade. The Caitlin Jenner saga will be judged by history as a saga of ghoulish fascination into a deeply crass and unpleasant family.

And road safety issues.

The_Valeyard

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Yeah, i honestly do not know how I feel about that.

Yeah, a weight lifter named Laurel Hubbard wins a female weight lifting title.

Sounds mundane until you realise this 'Sheila' (as an Aussie might say) was formerly known as Gavin, is built like a fat rugby player and weighs close to 140kgs.

I know exactly how I feel about that. It's a total sham and shouldn't have been allowed. It's unsporting, plain and simple. You need no other reason to object. A sham of an athlete taking advantage of an absolutely unfair physical edge over the other competitors.

As for Caitlyn Jenner, that's a whole other train wreck that's hard to look away from, even when it's clear to see it's going to be a bloody big mess.

Hammer89

anna080 wrote: »

The person still won it. She won it when she was male, she's now a woman. You want her to externalise her achievements and say "remember when that dude won those medals?"..
The body achieved the medals not the gender

This.

The_Valeyard

I wonder will be eventually head towards gender-less sports, instead it will be weight / muscle or speed class.

Noel82

The body achieved the medals not the gender

What about in cases like this?

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/27/us/texas-transgender-wrestler-trnd-hold/index.html

"Transgender boy wins girls' wrestling championship in Texas"

Do you think it's fair to the girls competing?

Tenigate

Hammer89 wrote: »

This.

Nope. The man achieved the medals. Because being male was a key criteria. Perhaps the only one. It was not a unisex race and women, whether at an advantage or not, would not have been allowed to compete.

Well done Mr Jenner!

Tenigate

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I wonder will be eventually head towards gender-less sports, instead it will be weight / muscle or speed class.

It was. Women traditionally did not compete, except maybe in chariot racing where their weight would give them an advantage.

Women categories allow women to compete, despite their physical disadvantages. By compromising womens' athletics, you are barring real women from sports.

ceadaoin.

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I wonder will be eventually head towards gender-less sports, instead it will be weight / muscle or speed class.

Even at the same weight, a male would have an advantage over a female in pretty much every physical sport. The way it is now (segregated by biological sex) has allowed women to compete on a level playing field and achieve success in their own right and it should stay that way.

AllForIt

Jenner has done much for the cause of transgender people....but she hasn't done much for the reputation of women drivers.

Hammer89

Tenigate wrote: »

Nope. The man achieved the medals. Because being male was a key criteria. Perhaps the only one. It was not a unisex race and women, whether at an advantage or not, would not have been allowed to compete.

Well done Mr Jenner!

Sorry Anna he's won me over.

MadDog76

splinter65 wrote: »

If Caitlyn Jenner insists that she has always felt that she was a woman, should she not return the Decathlon Olympic Gold Medal that Bruce Jenner (now a non existent entity) won in 1976, as the Decathlon is, always has been and will continue to be an exclusively male event ( as the heptathlon is exclusively female).
And by extension, return all the sponsorship money which, perhaps fraudulently, made the now non existent Bruce Jenner a millionaire ?

No because, despite how he "felt", Bruce Jenner is/was a man.

MadDog76

Autochange wrote: »

I see some people got warnings and bans for various reasons regarding jenners gender.

The way i see it is if you are born a man you are a man. Surgery, medication and anything else humans come up with cannot change what nature has designed. Jenner may think, sound, act and on some levels look like a woman but by design can never be one.

This is not transphobia as the mod mentioned previously this is accepting humans cannot change natures design.

The most irritating (and ridiculous!!) aspect of the whole "gender fluid" phenomenon is the fact that anybody who doesn't conform to popular opinion, ie. dare to have their own opinion, is regarded as "whateverphobic" ........ if we can't give our honest opinions on a discussion forum then what's the point in having said discussion forum at all???

RobertKK

Caitlyn Jenner came across very well on the Late Late show, and is doing no one any harm.

Live and let live, it is easy to judge other people, and people who judge others usually hate it when they get judged.

bodice ripper

I do not think it is at all fair for transwomen to compete in women's sports. The advantage is clear.

traveller0101

Honest question, is it transphobia to refer to Bruce/Caitlyn as he/she?

Omackeral

I've asked before if Jenner's kids say "mom" or "dad". Cos both are equally as strange to me. If it's mom, you're kinda saying it's not your dad, if you say dad you're calling a woman your dad. Have I got that right?

DavidLyons_

This person is such a vacuous, self-absorbed, attention seeking narcissist that they are impossible to take at face value. The cause of genuine trans people is set back by assh*les like this.

RobbingBandit

Anthropomorphic weasel.

arayess

The perversion isn't trans ( I couldn't give a hoot what consenting adults do although I think trans is a bit messed up ) but the demand that we all must dance to this tune and change to suit others for fear of being ostracised or worse banned from AH :pac:
fcuk them all.

suicide_circus

arayess wrote: »

The perversion isn't trans ( I couldn't give a hoot what consenting adults do although I think trans is a bit messed up ) but the demand that we all must dance to this tune and change to suit others for fear of being ostracised or worse banned from AH :pac:
fcuk them all.

Do what the hell you want with your body and I will treat you with respect and dignity but don't even attempt to tell me to ignore biology. I'm not buying what you're selling. Gender Dysphoria must be difficult to live with (40% suicide rate) but I'm not obliged to celebrate it.