Denmark vs Ireland, World Cup Play-Off 1st Leg, kick-off 7.45, RTE 2 & Sky Sports

RicketyCricket

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

St annes park would be the furthest they would end up playing if that was done.

Then there would be all this talk of moral victories etc

I'm not talking gung ho, all out attacking football but this hoofball ****e is far below what those lads are capable of.

allthedoyles

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

The plan was clearly to get a 0-0. We were never gonna risk men forward, so unless Wessi was gonna walk through them himself, his composure would have been wasted. Better saved for Tuesday.

Its true Wes is better saved for Tues . but the problem remains that its highly unlikely he will start on Tues .

Ulysses Gaze

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

That's Dunphy in a nutshell. I like him, most pundits would bore the pants off me.
But not Eamonn. He's there to start a row and when nobody bothers arguing with him he will contradict himself a few minutes later.
It's as though he thinks "well that didn't create any controversy so I'll try the opposite".

So he starts arguing with himself. It's punditry masturbation.

Even when he's wrong he's funny

Eamon Dunphy: "Look at Graeme, he won four Champions Leagues."
Graeme Souness: " Three."
Dunphy: " He won four league titles."
Souness: "Five."
Dunphy: "It's not bloody Mastermind!"

lawred2

Arghus wrote: »

I don't think the argument is that Wes is a footballing genius. He is a thirtysomething playing in The Championship.

But there's no denying that he brings something to the team when he's on the field, that, for whatever reason, no other player in the squad seems able to do. He always tries to do something creative with the ball and the other players respond and show for it, make runs etc, etc. Whatever about how good he may or not be, there's no denying that he has an influence on the team.

He doesn't do anything incredible. He just has the patience and calmness of mind to put his foot on the ball. It only takes one player to do this and it can change the tempo of a game completely.

For a midfield of premier league players, tonight was shocking stuff.

Banjaxed82

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

The plan was clearly to get a 0-0. We were never gonna risk men forward, so unless Wessi was gonna walk through them himself, his composure would have been wasted. Better saved for Tuesday.

But isn't that the point people keep missing with Wes? He doesn't walk through other teams or change the game single-handley.

Wes doesn't affect the opposition as much as he affects the Irish players around him and their own approach to the game. Wes encourages positive play and it's clear as day this is the case every time he plays.

One_Of_Shanks

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Newsflash Wes Hoolahan is an average player in his mid 30s who can't run can't track back, plays for Norwich and has low stamina (he admitted the latter himself)

If he was as good as people make out he would not be playing for Norwich.

Also Hendrick and Brady were supposed to be the next great things but yet they are superseded yet again by a fella in his mid 30s who did not even play!

I can't figure why you quoted my post when I clearly pointed out that people aren't pining for him specifically, but that he's the only fella we have who can perform the role he does.

I mean I never said he was Pele, there's hardly a need for your ground-breaking "newsflash" that he's in his mid 30's either. We all know his age.

If you really think he's "average" then hey that's fine, your opinion.

The point remains that if we are to qualify we'll need to score a goal, unless 0-0 peno's bla bla bla.

So you look to the players available and the most creative midfielder we have by a distance is Wes.
Nobody is making him out to be world class, none of our players are. But he's the single most creative midfielder we have.
And that's why people talk about him.

If Wes and Long are on the field at the same time then I'd be much more confident about us scoring a goal than if either are not playing.

And we're talking about next Tuesday here. I understand why neither started tonight.

super_furry

I just don't know how people think that a team of Championship and lower Premier League players can go out there, away from home, and take the game to a side like Denmark who have more quality all across the pitch. It'd be suicide.

fryup

i think we're all agreed it was a dreadful dreadful game of football played by two very average sides

if i was neutral i would have switched over and watched Strictly

lawred2

super_furry wrote: »

I just don't know how people think that a team of Championship and lower Premier League players can go out there, away from home, and take the game to a side like Denmark who have more quality all across the pitch. It'd be suicide.

Well we could expect the Irish team to attempt to at least keep possession of the football. Nobody would have ever asked for gung ho.

gormdubhgorm

loudnoises89 wrote: »

Well if we fail to qualify, inevitably Wes will retire at his age. Who will be Dunphys new messiah then?

Basically any other fella who the manager does not pick, does not like heading, tracking back and can only last 70 minutes

I think I have the future candidate

Jack Byrne former Manchester City future superstar and great Irish hope

http://www.the42.ie/jack-byrne-oldham-athletic-wigan-3570485-Aug2017/

He is a bit young yet only 21

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Byrne_(footballer)

So it should give Dunphy 12-13 years asking why he is not in the squad, until he bows out of punditry for good.

fryup

super_furry wrote: »

I just don't know how people think that a team of Championship and lower Premier League players can go out there, away from home, and take the game to a side like Denmark who have more quality all across the pitch. It'd be suicide.

do they?? take Eriksen and Sisto out and they were vauxhall conference like...and we weren't much better

Kermit.de.frog

fryup wrote: »

if i was neutral i would have switched over and watched Strictly

Ah don't mind what other people think.

Kermit.de.frog

It's a bit unfair to talk about Irish players at low Premier League clubs. The English players have also been struggling at upper PL level for some time.

Money has seen to it that young guys in this part of the world, who are not quite as skilled as continentals or South Americans (or are!!), barely get a look in to first team squads.

RicketyCricket

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Really? Unlike the rest of the team, Hoolahan wouldn't have been hoofing the ball away in a panic, I can guarantee you that.

That would have been progress enough.

Would he have had the ball at his feet many times tonight? It was in the air most of the time.

gormdubhgorm

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

If Wes and Long are on the field at the same time then I'd be much more confident about us scoring a goal than if either are not playing.

And we're talking about next Tuesday here. I understand why neither started tonight.

Long?

He could not hit a Dart if it was stopped at landsdowne road these days, never mind the back of the net.
His confidence is completely shot and he is a confidence player.

Banjaxed82

RicketyCricket wrote: »

Would he have had the ball at his feet many times tonight? It was in the air most of the time.

Show me a game that Wes has played where we hoofed the ball for the entire time he spent on the pitch.

limnam

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Show me a game that Wes has played where we hoofed the ball for the entire time he spent on the pitch.

I think the point is if you put wes in and it's hoofball the ball gets played over him.

e.g. pointless having him there if you're doing that

Banjaxed82

RicketyCricket wrote: »

Would he have had the ball at his feet many times tonight? It was in the air most of the time.

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Show me a game that Wes has played where we hoofed the ball for the entire time he spent on the pitch.

I'll assume you can't find a game? You know why? Cause we don't play hoof ball when Wes is on the pitch.

NIMAN

I think Eriksen showed tonight he is not a world star.

A very good player yes, but not as good as he is being hyped up to be.

Did little to nothing tonight.

limnam

NIMAN wrote: »

He's like our Messi the way some folk talk about him.

Our best decision maker in the center
Our best offensive passer of the ball
our best passer of the ball.
Best first touch
The only thing we have close to a temp dictator.

The problem is not wes, it's usually the 10 around him are ****e.

Doctor Jimbob

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

I'll assume you can't find a game? You know why? Cause we don't play hoof ball when Wes is on the pitch.

Wes played against Serbia at home, a game in which we also played some decent stuff.

What was the score of that one again?

johnpatrick81

fryup wrote: »

do they?? take Eriksen and Sisto out and they were vauxhall conference like...and we weren't much better

Yeah, the premiership winning keeper, the seville Star, champions league regulars, bundesliga stalwarts.

Pure shoite .....

Better team on paper. Favourites to best us. We drew away to them. Get a grip people!

limnam

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

I'll assume you can't find a game? You know why? Cause we don't play hoof ball when Wes is on the pitch.

That's why MON tends not to play him when he wants to play hoofball.

Is this really up for discussion ?

Doctor Jimbob

limnam wrote: »

Our best decision maker in the center
Our best offensive passer of the ball
our best passer of the ball.
Best first touch
The only thing we have close to a temp dictator.

The problem is not wes, it's usually the 10 around him are ****e.

The answer is not Wes either.

He's a good player. I like when he plays. He's not the best in the team though, and he often fades out of big games.

His abilities have reached mythical proportions on here to the extent I'm starting to wonder if we have a heap of Dunphy re-reg accounts.

One_Of_Shanks

loudnoises89 wrote: »

Well if we fail to qualify, inevitably Wes will retire at his age. Who will be Dunphys new messiah then?

The reason he bangs on about him is because he's the only player Ireland have who can collect the ball and get his head up and play a creative intricate pass and do it consistently.
Giles talks about him in similar fashion, Brady too.
There's a reason why former footballers like to see a creative player in a team.
You need one.

So yeah your question is a good one. But rather than being sarky about it I'd be worried.
If the answer is nobody and the end result is years of hoof ball then the jokes on us eh?

Banjaxed82

NIMAN wrote: »

I think Eriksen showed tonight he is not a world star.

A very good player yes, but not as good as he is being hyped up to be.

No, I think it shows the Denmark system of lobbing long balls and not utilizing their only world class player, as absolute shocking tactics.

Rekop dog

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Wes played against Serbia at home, a game in which we also played some decent stuff.

What was the score of that one again?

I think this is where most fans struggle. He most definitely adds to the attractiveness of our style, but people don't realise the effort level required to keep clean sheets in games like tonight. What he gives us does not make up for what he takes away in terms of work rate in centre midfield. It's something thats beyond the comprehension of basics.

limnam

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

His abilities have reached mythical proportions on here to the extent I'm starting to wonder if we have a heap of Dunphy re-reg accounts.

Because he's the only player of that type we have.

NIMAN

I think we need to decide if we want results or entertainment?

That was utter muck tonight, but if Tue is the same but we get to Russia, will anyone care?

MON is all about results. His football is prehistoric but it can often get the results needed. He doesn't do entertainment.

Banjaxed82

Rekop dog wrote: »

I think this is where most fans struggle. He most definitely adds to the attractiveness of our style, but people don't realise the effort level required to keep clean sheets in games like tonight. What he gives us does not make up for what he takes away in terms of work rate in centre midfield. It's something thats beyond the comprehension of basics.

So this one game (serbia) is why any positives that Wes brings should be negated?

One_Of_Shanks

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Long?

He could not hit a Dart if it was stopped at landsdowne road these days, never mind the back of the net.
His confidence is completely shot and he is a confidence player.

Yeah he's going through a bad spell but again I'd say he has to start on Tuesday.
It's a given.

Jesus, sometimes you'd swear Martin O Neill had a tonne of options.

Doctor Jimbob

limnam wrote: »

Because he's the only player of that type we have.

But maybe playing that kind of player tonight would have meant a worse result.

Who would you have dropped for him?

One_Of_Shanks

limnam wrote: »

Because he's the only player of that type we have.

Exactly.

It's scary how people can't feckin grasp that.

micks

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

I can't figure why you quoted my post when I clearly pointed out that people aren't pining for him specifically, but that he's the only fella we have who can perform the role he does.

I mean I never said he was Pele, there's hardly a need for your ground-breaking "newsflash" that he's in his mid 30's either. We all know his age.

If you really think he's "average" then hey that's fine, your opinion.

The point remains that if we are to qualify we'll need to score a goal, unless 0-0 peno's bla bla bla.

So you look to the players available and the most creative midfielder we have by a distance is Wes.
Nobody is making him out to be world class, none of our players are. But he's the single most creative midfielder we have.
And that's why people talk about him.

If Wes and Long are on the field at the same time then I'd be much more confident about us scoring a goal than if either are not playing.

And we're talking about next Tuesday here. I understand why neither started tonight.

How is he?

RicketyCricket

NIMAN wrote: »

I think we need to decide if we want results or entertainment?

That was utter muck tonight, but if Tue is the same but we get to Russia, will anyone care?

MON is all about results. His football is prehistoric but it can often get the results needed. He doesn't do entertainment.

True, but he needs to be able to see when a game is there for the taking. It was tonight. It was against Georgia and Austria but he chose the safety first option.
It will bite us in the ass eventualy.

One_Of_Shanks

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

But maybe playing that kind of player tonight would have meant a worse result.

Who would you have dropped for him?

Tuesday. Not tonight. The aim tonight was 0-0 it seems so fully understandable.

Even Tuesday I'd say last 30 mins most likely.

NIMAN

My big fear for Tue is a Danish goal.

We wouldn't get 2.

I don't think a 0-0 away from home in a tie where away goals count is a great result as many think it is.

One_Of_Shanks

micks wrote: »

How is he?

You don't think he is?
Name a CM available to Ireland who is more creative than Wes then?

Banjaxed82

I think O'Dowda will be dropped for Wes on Tuesday.

Meyler is back from suspension, but seriously to expect Meyler, Hendrick and Arter in the same team...at home...needing a win?

I don't think Meyler is getting back in. Whether O'Dowda keeps his place, I don't know, but who ever plays will have to have some offensive leaning.

Rekop dog

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

So this one game (serbia) is why any positives that Wes brings should be negated?

A 35 year old at a very poor championship side is not going to offer nearly enough, he doesn't have anywhere close to the engine required to justify
selection.

micks

One_Of_Shanks wrote: »

You don't think he is?
Name a CM available to Ireland who is more creative than Wes then?

we can spend forever asking Questions

Explain how he is the most creative player?

forget what Dunphy thinks

Show me the stats that prove over the last 10 years that Wes is Ireland's most creative player?


Simple

RicketyCricket

Rekop dog wrote: »

A 35 year old at a very poor championship side is not going to offer nearly enough, he doesn't have anywhere close to the engine required to justify
selection.

I'd never start Wes. Fitness would be an issue for a start. We must be the only country that hopes for the talent of a 35 year old to swing things our way. Does anyone think O'Neill and Keane will send the players out to express themselves and play as they can? No chance. Defend, defend, defend and hope to **** we stick away a chance from a set piece.

NIMAN

micks wrote: »

we can spend forever asking Questions

Explain how he is the most creative player?

forget what Dunphy thinks

Show me the stats that prove over the last 10 years that Wes is Ireland's most creative player?


Simple

Are there any stats for Wes?
How many goals, assists has he?

Rekop dog

Shane Duffy continues to have a season of distinction. I was met with criticism when I said he's destined for a career at top level but with every standout performance I see form him I become more certain.

noodler

Rekop dog wrote: »

Shane Duffy continues to have a season of distinction. I was met with criticism when I said he's destined for a career at top level but with every standout performance I see form him I become more certain.

Well if you are still maintaining he will get a move United or Liverpool then I say you will rightly still be criticised!

Let. Him try and get a half season in the EPL done first.

noodler

NIMAN wrote: »

Are there any stats for Wes?
How many goals, assists has he?

Goal against Sweden.

Assist against Italy.

Assist against Austria.

Assist against Moldova.


Thats a pretty impressive and tangible contribution over a dozen games tbh. He wouldn't even have played that often in the period.

Banjaxed82

noodler wrote: »

Goal against Sweden.

Assist against Italy.

Assist against Austria.

Assist against Moldova.


Thats a pretty impressive and tangible contribution over a dozen games tbh. He wouldn't even have played that often in the period.

But we lost to Serbia, so enough of these facts you're spewing.

Rekop dog

noodler wrote: »

Well if you are still maintaining he will get a move United or Liverpool then I say you will rightly still be criticised!

Let. Him try and get a half season in the EPL done first.

I said Arsenal or Liverpool. He was standout last season too. For me his ability is so obvious it's just a matter of time.

matrim

RicketyCricket wrote: »

Does anyone think O'Neill and Keane will send the players out to express themselves and play as they can? No chance. Defend, defend, defend and hope to **** we stick away a chance from a set piece.

This is the problem. The players are told to play hoofball and hope for the set piece. One of the best examples of this that I can remember was, Randolph had the ball and slowing down the play. One danish player ran up to him to force him to hurry it up, there were 4 Irish defenders spread across the back line and all other danish players near or within their half. Instead of taking the time to play a simple ball to an Irish defender, Randolph booted it up the pitch and we lost it. Similar things happened multiple times from different players, which indicates a decision from higher up.

One_Of_Shanks

micks wrote: »

we can spend forever asking Questions

Explain how he is the most creative player?

forget what Dunphy thinks

Show me the stats that prove over the last 10 years that Wes is Ireland's most creative player?


Simple

Dunno what you're sniffing but you've just suggested I go and start researching statistics over ten years to humour you?

Are you well?

Yeah sure you go do the research and show me that he's NOT a creative mid.

How about that?

Jesus, you get some funny stuff on here but that takes the biscuit.

Look, it's easy enough to figure out if you're honest about it, we are more creative when he is on the field than when he's not.

If you disagree then fine, life continues etc.