Denmark vs Ireland, World Cup Play-Off 1st Leg, kick-off 7.45, RTE 2 & Sky Sports

PVA

You've all lost the plot. I've just booked a return flight to Moscow. We beat Denmark 1-0 on Tuesday, it's all done

One_Of_Shanks

Rekop dog wrote: »

I said Arsenal or Liverpool. He was standout last season too. For me his ability is so obvious it's just a matter of time.

Nah can't see it at all. He's a decent defender but not for that level.

Plus the 2 teams you chose are the worst possible ones. The issue with Liverpool and Arsenal is they both play high lines and you need a really fast recovery time and that's not his game at all.

Lovren is struggling at Liverpool and he's more mobile.

I'm not saying he's a bad defender, but no way for the two teams you mentioned.

Neamhshuntasach

I think Ireland needed an away goal tonight. Either a 0-1 win or a 1-1 draw. I don't doubt Ireland's ability to get a 0-0 at home against Denmark. They didn't look great at all. But i doubt Ireland's ability to score. Especially 2 goals if Denmark manage to score one. Hope Ireland go through. But i just don't know what is going to change where Ireland actually play football and go for it.

applehunter

Why do people want Hoolahan to fail?

Because of Eamon Dunphy,

Rikand

loudnoises89 wrote: »

Well if we fail to qualify, inevitably Wes will retire at his age. Who will be Dunphys new messiah then?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LnLLOhhi8aU

One_Of_Shanks

applehunter wrote: »

Why do people want Hoolahan to fail?

Because of Eamon Dunphy,

Yes.

LuckyLloyd

applehunter wrote: »

Why do people want Hoolahan to fail?

Because of Eamon Dunphy,

I don't want Hoolohan to fail and I don't hate Eamonn Dunphy in the slightest - but I don't want him in our starting lineup either. He's a 35 year old with genuine fitness issues from the perspective of playing 90 minutes at full bore who offers us an awful lot less than those selected from a defensive perspective. If we need it, bring him on in the last half hour. But I think wailing about his absence tonight when the three lads in the middle who started ran themselves into the ground and got the job done is weird.

GLaDOS

There's no point playing Wes if the tactic from the start is to hoof as far forward as possible.

TheCitizen

GLaDOS wrote: »

There's no point playing Wes if the tactic from the start is to hoof as far forward as possible.

I like Wes. He doesn't start for Norwich in the English second tier most of the time recently.

We can still get to Russia. Wes is unlikely to play a part in that, but there's a chance he might. Sleep well.

applehunter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't want Hoolohan to fail and I don't hate Eamonn Dunphy in the slightest - but I don't want him in our starting lineup either. He's a 35 year old with genuine fitness issues from the perspective of playing 90 minutes at full bore who offers us an awful lot less than those selected from a defensive perspective. If we need it, bring him on in the last half hour. But I think wailing about his absence tonight when the three lads in the middle who started ran themselves into the ground and got the job done is weird.

We see things differently.

Tonight probably reminded you of the glory days of Trap.

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't want Hoolohan to fail and I don't hate Eamonn Dunphy in the slightest - but I don't want him in our starting lineup either. He's a 35 year old with genuine fitness issues from the perspective of playing 90 minutes at full bore who offers us an awful lot less than those selected from a defensive perspective. If we need it, bring him on in the last half hour. But I think wailing about his absence tonight when the three lads in the middle who started ran themselves into the ground and got the job done is weird.

You can't qualify by drawing 0-0 twice. You have to score a goal at some point, even by penalty shootout. Not scoring is not getting the job done.

Ireland essentially voluntarily conceded the advantage of the away goal to Denmark tonight.

Utopia Parkway

Wes is 35 and is not even a regular for Norwich anymore. I love Wes but people have to be realistic here and not pay heed to Dunphy's shítetalk. Hopefully he gets 30 minutes in the 2nd leg and creates or scores our winner.

I'd blame others for wasting his prime years to be honest.

NIMAN

If Wes is the answer, I don't know what the question is.

pjohnson

Dunphy is the messiah again.

limnam

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

But maybe playing that kind of player tonight would have meant a worse result.

Who would you have dropped for him?

I'm not suggesting he should have played.

As I said threes no point deploying him if yuo plan to have 30% pos and hoof.

Cina

dfx- wrote: »

You can't qualify by drawing 0-0 twice. You have to score a goal at some point, even by penalty shootout. Not scoring is not getting the job done.

Ireland essentially voluntarily conceded the advantage of the away goal to Denmark tonight.

I'm quite torn myself.

The thing is that most teams in the knockouts of the CL who get a 0-0 away from home in the first leg will see it as a fantastic results, so I guess we should see it as a fantastic result too, but the problem is that this is an Irish team who a) never look like scoring at home and b) have a record of conceding at home, which is a terrible combination.

Imo our best chance was to nick an away goal and get a 0-0 at home then. Ultimately now if Denmark score (which will happen if their finishing isn't as god awful as tonight), it'd take a bit of a miracle for us to get 2.

It's 1-0 on Tuesday or bust now, I think. If we take them to 0-0 at half time I'd fancy us, a bit like the Wales game.

Mokuba

dfx- wrote: »

You can't qualify by drawing 0-0 twice. You have to score a goal at some point, even by penalty shootout. Not scoring is not getting the job done.

Ireland essentially voluntarily conceded the advantage of the away goal to Denmark tonight.

Not conceding away from home is getting the job done against a team that is equal to you. This is the school of thought of many of the most high profile managers around - Mourinho, Simeone

First and foremost make sure you don't concede and if you manage to nick one on the counter, then great. If not, job done anyway.

The onus is then on you at home to be the one taking the initiative. Granted we haven't done that yet at home this campaign. But it doesn't change the fact that we did what needed to be done last night.

The away goal isn't as important as you make it out - yes they qualify if it's a score draw but after extra-time. If we draw 1-1 after 90 minutes, we have a 15 minute break to sort out our tactics and approach - and we know that we need to win in extra time. 30 minutes then to begin an all out assault on the Danish goal. That is a huge bonus and negates the importance of the away goal somewhat. Obviously not completely.

Tuesday we will need to see a more positive performance to push on and win the game.

noodler

Mokuba wrote: »

Not conceding away from home is getting the job done against a team that is equal to you. This is the school of thought of many of the most high profile managers around - Mourinho, Simeone

First and foremost make sure you don't concede and if you manage to nick one on the counter, then great. If not, job done anyway.

The onus is then on you at home to be the one taking the initiative. Granted we haven't done that yet at home this campaign. But it doesn't change the fact that we did what needed to be done last night.

The away goal isn't as important as you make it out - yes they qualify if it's a score draw but after extra-time. If we draw 1-1 after 90 minutes, we have a 15 minute break to sort out our tactics and approach - and we know that we need to win in extra time. 30 minutes then to begin an all out assault on the Danish goal. That is a huge bonus and negates the importance of the away goal somewhat. Obviously not completely.

Tuesday we will need to see a more positive performance to push on and win the game.

If it's 1-1 after 90 then there is no extra time.

Cina

noodler wrote: »

If it's 1-1 after 90 then there is no extra time.

I think he meant if it's 1-1 between 90-105 minutes then we've 15 minutes to get another? Seems badly phrased!

Father Hernandez

I think we've shot ourselves in the foot a little bit not going out to get that away goal.

If Denmark were to score early on Tuesday, we're backs against the wall which we relish but having to go and get two goals, not one is something we haven't had to do in a long time.

It comes down to Ireland getting a win or a 0-0 draw Tuesday, Denmark need a win or a score draw. Denmark have the advantage for me but I'll be praying hard

Mokuba

noodler wrote: »

If it's 1-1 after 90 then there is no extra time.

My mistake.

I stand by the remainder of my point, though.

Richard Hillman

If we switched the venues around and we drew 0-0 at home, we'd be a lot less positive than we are now. That's the situation Denmark are in. They were gutted by that result last night

Rekop dog

Father Hernandez wrote: »

I think we've shot ourselves in the foot a little bit not going out to get that away goal.

If Denmark were to score early on Tuesday, we're backs against the wall which we relish but having to go and get two goals, not one is something we haven't had to do in a long time.

It comes down to Ireland getting a win or a 0-0 draw Tuesday, Denmark need a win or a score draw. Denmark have the advantage for me but I'll be praying hard

Denmark always had the advantage though by being much better than us.

Any sort of opening up last night would have left us more vulnerable and their creative players would have looked far better than they did in the end.

I expect much of the same on Tuesday and still think it's by far our best approach for qualification.

nice_guy80

We know exactly how Denmark are going to play. Long diagonal balls to try and get their wingers in behind our full backs.
We need two mobile strikers to cut out these long balls. ie not Murphy

fryup

Laois_Man wrote: »

Their away results in qualifying


Poland 3–2 Denmark
Romania 0–0 Denmark
Kazakhstan 1–3 Denmark
Armenia 1–4 Denmark
Montenegro 0–1 Denmark

Just out of interest

oh oh :cool:

niallo27

Richard Hillman wrote: »

If we switched the venues around and we drew 0-0 at home, we'd be a lot less positive than we are now. That's the situation Denmark are in. They were gutted by that result last night

Great point man. It's very true. We are far too negative as fans.

dubrov

Odds imply we are about 45% to qualify now while we were only 40% before last night.

So the result was good for us but only marginally.
Still loads of work to do in the second leg

sReq | uTeK

I don't get what all the cafuffle is about. Stop thinking of this as a 2 legged game. The 0-0 has done away with that.

At the start of the campaign if Ireland were offered a one off home game against Denmark in which they HAD to win to qualify for the world cup you'd have taken the hand off the chap offering it.

Rekop dog

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I don't get what all the cafuffle is about. Stop thinking of this as a 2 legged game. The 0-0 has done away with that.

At the start of the campaign if Ireland were offered a one off home game against Denmark in which they HAD to win to qualify for the world cup you'd have taken the hand off the chap offering it.

Especially given the fact we were 4th seeds.

Zico !

In the old days a 0-0 away from home would be celebrated -Way ott the criticism we are getting for the hoof ball that got us in this position in the first place.

briany

keeponhurling wrote: »

It wasn't sarcastic. We played really well and were unlucky to lose. And even though we lost, our midfield played very well.

Main point was that MON might try something different, and it's not impossible that Meyler and Wes could start.

If Ireland put on a more positive display on Tuesday and still lose or score draw, it will console absolutely no-one.

If Ireland put on a turgid display of anti-football, and somehow eek out the win, it will be party time.

And that's not to say it can only be one or the other. It's really more just to illustrate which one people are going to place more stock in.

So, O'Neill could start Hoolahan and Meyler on Tuesday, but he'll probably have that Serbia game on his mind. Thinking about what went wrong with it and wanting to ensure the same mistakes were not repeated.

So, what this adds up to, for lovers of the Beautiful Game, is that Ireland's approach on Tuesday will likely be one of pragmatism once again. But if any of ye were in O'Neill's shoes, looking at a game where conceding a single goal spells disaster, wouldn't you be the same way?

KaiserGunner

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

I don't get what all the cafuffle is about. Stop thinking of this as a 2 legged game. The 0-0 has done away with that.

At the start of the campaign if Ireland were offered a one off home game against Denmark in which they HAD to win to qualify for the world cup you'd have taken the hand off the chap offering it.

Yeah very true, however we don’t technically have to win to qualify. A 0-0 and penalties can do. This will effect the mentality of the team on Tuesday. If it was a must win game we would have to go gung ho, but we won’t. It’s going to be another cagey affair. We will play exactly the same as last night and hope to nick it from a set piece or counter.
If Denmark score, then the game plan is out the window and we will actually have to go for it.

Sue Pa Key Pa

briany wrote:

If Ireland put on a turgid display of anti-football, and somehow eek out the win, it will be party time.

That's the crux of the issue. Do we want to qualify by the skin of our teeth, go to the finals, have a party, get 3 scoreless draws and come home undefeated or do we want to watch a game of football the way it should be played.

I'm very proud to support the National team, but watching them play at the moment brings me no joy and I love my football

briany

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

That's the crux of the issue. Do we want to qualify by the skin of our teeth, go to the finals, have a party, get 3 scoreless draws and come home undefeated or do we want to watch a game of football the way it should be played.

I'm very proud to support the National team, but watching them play at the moment brings me no joy and I love my football

Ireland got 4 draws (in normal time) and a loss at Italia '90, and that is still held up as the halcyon days of the team.

It is what it is, but debates about the Irish team's performance are largely framed around the result and probably always will be.

alta stare

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

I'm very proud to support the National team, but watching them play at the moment brings me no joy and I love my football

I agree with this 100%. Unfortunately on here you can get jumped on for expressing an opinion like that.

OldMrBrennan83

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gormdubhgorm

RicketyCricket wrote: »

I'd never start Wes. Fitness would be an issue for a start. We must be the only country that hopes for the talent of a 35 year old to swing things our way. Does anyone think O'Neill and Keane will send the players out to express themselves and play as they can? No chance. Defend, defend, defend and hope to **** we stick away a chance from a set piece.

Off the top of my I can only think of one top class international player of recent times where age was an irrelevance. Andrea Pirlo! But he was a freak of nature.

Hoolahan is no Pirlo plus Pirlo never had to run!

This thread has shown me the power that the RTE panel still extol over a large number of people.
I suppose if you repeat something often enough it becomes fact.

I would say if Hoolahan lived in Ireland he would never get any peace!
Dunphy would be hiding in his bed for a start!

gormdubhgorm

briany wrote: »

Ireland got 4 draws (in normal time) and a loss at Italia '90, and that is still held up as the halcyon days of the team.

It is what it is, but debates about the Irish team's performance are largely framed around the result and probably always will be.

International football is not league football where crowds want to be entertained every week.

By its nature international football is completely results based.

Managers have little time with the players so play the simplest tactics which let less glamorous nations punch above thier weight.
.

I think some people on here would like us to be like the Dutch easy on the eye but underachieving massively.

Whereas BOTH NI and Ireland are not easy the eye but are massive overachievers.

The Talking Bread

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

That's the crux of the issue. Do we want to qualify by the skin of our teeth, go to the finals, have a party, get 3 scoreless draws and come home undefeated or do we want to watch a game of football the way it should be played.

I'm very proud to support the National team, but watching them play at the moment brings me no joy and I love my football

No joy and potentially 90 minutes away from our first WC in 16 years. No joy and we went to Cardiff and pulled out one of the most exciting results in a decade or two. No joy and we have one of the best defensive records at the moment of an Ireland team, which is part and parcel of football, you have to admit.
Surely the whole occasion and potential rewards of this fixture on Tuesday can' exert a little excitement for you?

We went out to play on a less cautious platform against Serbia and lost, we played with half as much possession against Wales, Germany and even Austria and won.

MON and the players know what they have to do now, they know there is no second chances.

Surely you can muster a bit of excitement for the occasion. Ireland being in a WC next Summer potentially and I think with a bit of tweeking (Hoolahan, Long and Meyler in for Arter, O'Dowda and Murphy) we are favourites, personally.


I am not saying you are any less a fan, or that you are obliged to have joy but I am bewildered that passionate Irish fans can't muster a bit of excitement and, indeed pride that we are in this situation now.

gormdubhgorm

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I have no problem with people not likely the football it is sh*te to watch.
What annoys me is that people seem to be deluded into thinking the players are there to play a more attractive style of football.

Also MON will go down as the second most successful manager in Irish history if he qualifies for the WC.

MON will be badly missed when he is gone after the likes of Dunphy laud the new manager..... then stick the knife in and twist.

briany

In an odd way, if I were the Danish coach, I'd maybe look into allowing the Irish to score early on in the game. It is statistically provable that Ireland have a massive mental block in trying to hold on to a lead scored any time within the first 45 minutes. And a score draw would do Denmark, so yeah.

I know this won't happen, but I'd still have reasonable confidence of it working as a tactic.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Some people on here seem to think by being more positive and holding onto the ball equates to getting worse results.

Guess what, maybe just maybe they'd have been BETTER.

Wales home Draw>Win, Serbia away Draw>Win, Georgia Away Draw>Win.

Then you're not having to even play a play off.

You don't have to be a shambles at the back if you want to have an attacking threat. In fact by controlling a ball you're more likely to avoid having to defend.

Putting 11 men behind the ball and kicking it straight back leads to either:
A. Draw
B. Loss

Having a go at a team can lead to
A. Winning
B. Draw
C. Losing

The fact that we're seldom doing option A playing the first way would lead me to believe it's not a good tactic.. you'll only rob a team like Wales/Germany once in a blue moon like that.

chicorytip

gormdubhgorm wrote:

This thread has shown me the power that the RTE panel still extol over a large number of people. I suppose if you repeat something often enough it becomes fact.

No more so than John Delaney. The sacking of Trappattoni came about largely because of critical comments by Dunphy and Giles rather than purely performance based grounds.

noodler

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

This thread has shown me the power that the RTE panel still extol over a large number of people.
I suppose if you repeat something often enough it becomes fact.

I would say if Hoolahan lived in Ireland he would never get any peace!
Dunphy would be hiding in his bed for a start!

Mental stuff.

This isn't hypothetical.

Look.and what Hoolahan had tangibly contributed in the last 18 months.


Its been repeated ad verbatim but four vital contributions to goals in big games.

~Rebel~

Would like us to still remain solid, but allow just a bit more room for attacking. Having more than one player as an out-ball (which really means no out-ball as one guy will be swarmed).

Hoping for;

---

Randolph
Christie--Duffy--Clark--Ward

---

Meyler

---

Hendrick--Arter
---Brady

---

McClean

---

Long


Feels like a bit of balance there, where we could still sit back and be solid if needed, but could also push up and play a bit of ball if the opportunity is there.

Wes as an option in the last half hour. Really wish we had Maguire on the bench though. He's really the only centre forward we have with that bit extra about him who could create something from nothing, even if untested internationally.

OldMrBrennan83

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~Rebel~

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

We have a habit of losing when he doesn't play though. He gets through an awful lot of work, even if he doesn't get on the ball and play as much as he's capable of. But if we're in a position where we need to score, i'd rather him be there.

MrKingsley

gilberto_eire wrote: »

Some people on here seem to think by being more positive and holding onto the ball equates to getting worse results.

Guess what, maybe just maybe they'd have been BETTER.

Wales home Draw>Win, Serbia away Draw>Win, Georgia Away Draw>Win.

Then you're not having to even play a play off.

You don't have to be a shambles at the back if you want to have an attacking threat. In fact by controlling a ball you're more likely to avoid having to defend.

Putting 11 men behind the ball and kicking it straight back leads to either:
A. Draw
B. Loss

Having a go at a team can lead to
A. Winning
B. Draw
C. Losing

The fact that we're seldom doing option A playing the first way would lead me to believe it's not a good tactic.. you'll only rob a team like Wales/Germany once in a blue moon like that.

For me the problem is that by getting wins against Wales and Germany doing the same thing it validates that kind of football. Allows people to say that it is our best or only way of getting results.

I would personally rather miss out on qualification playing this brand of football.

alta stare

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I am not saying you are any less a fan, or that you are obliged to have joy but I am bewildered that passionate Irish fans can't muster a bit of excitement and, indeed pride that we are in this situation now.

You are unreal with the some of the posts you come up with. You arent the only supporter who feels pride, excitement bla bla bla but you act as if you are and anyone who mentions how they arent as (noticed i said "as") excited because the way we have been playing get shot down by you.

I watched a documentary last night about Scientology and you remind me of that guy who runs it..... A bully who shouts down anyone who does not agree with the almighty one.

We all have a right to our viewpoint as are you and many people on this forum care about and are excited, passionate about the national team it isnt reserved for you and your one dimensional views. The funny thing is tho you are allowed express your views so i think you should allow others express theirs without you shouting down at them with nonsensical replies, passive aggressive posts and indirect bullying.