Denmark vs Ireland, World Cup Play-Off 1st Leg, kick-off 7.45, RTE 2 & Sky Sports

~Rebel~

MrKingsley wrote: »

For me the problem is that by getting wins against Wales and Germany doing the same thing it validates that kind of football. Allows people to say that it is our best or only way of getting results.

I would personally rather miss out on qualification playing this brand of football.

The weeks of training camp building up to a tournament are when offensive tactics and shape can be worked on more effectively... for now, i'm more than fine with pragmatism if it allows us to beat the odds and overachieve in terms of results, if not playing style.

It is well worth noting that we're not just good at being solid, we're pretty incredible at it. Like, we're genuinely one of the best defensive teams around. It's not pretty, but there are very few tougher teams to play against.

The Talking Bread

alta stare wrote: »

You are unreal with the some of the posts you come up with. You arent the only supporter who feels pride, excitement bla bla bla but you act as if you are and anyone who mentions how they arent as (noticed i said "as") excited because the way we have been playing get shot down by you.

I watched a documentary last night about Scientology and you remind me of that guy who runs it..... A bully who shouts down anyone who does not agree with the almighty one.

We all have a right to our viewpoint as are you and many people on this forum care about and are excited, passionate about the national team it isnt reserved for you and your one dimensional views. The funny thing is tho you are allowed express your views so i think you should allow others express theirs without you shouting down at them with nonsensical replies, passive aggressive posts and indirect bullying.

Oh, will you ever f*ck off with the personal jibes.

I think the context of my post makes sense to most. Get over yourself, relax and stop attacking posters with nonsensical witherings.

My post didn't even address you nor was it in anyway a meanhearted reply so spouting faux outrage to such an extent is ridiculous

Block button.

MrKingsley

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The weeks of training camp building up to a tournament are when offensive tactics and shape can be worked on more effectively... for now, i'm more than fine with pragmatism if it allows us to beat the odds and overachieve in terms of results, if not playing style.

It is well worth noting that we're not just good at being solid, we're pretty incredible at it. Like, we're genuinely one of the best defensive teams around. It's not pretty, but there are very few tougher teams to play against.

I just dont get why a professional coaching staff cannot preach this to their players whilst also suggesting that it may be acceptable to try and play 1/2 passes.

Is it not possible for professional footballers to take a touch, and heaven forbid maybe even raise their heads, prior to trying to burst the ball when clearing it?

Sue Pa Key Pa

The Talking Bread wrote:

No joy and potentially 90 minutes away from our first WC in 16 years. No joy and we went to Cardiff and pulled out one of the most exciting results in a decade or two. No joy and we have one of the best defensive records at the moment of an Ireland team, which is part and parcel of football, you have to admit. Surely the whole occasion and potential rewards of this fixture on Tuesday can' exert a little excitement for you?

Nope, I don't enjoy the football that Ireland are playing, though I appreciate the success they achieve.

The Talking Bread

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Nope, I don't enjoy the football that Ireland are playing, though I appreciate the success they achieve.

That's exactly what I mean.

I think most fans would agree there.

alta stare

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Oh, will you ever f*ck off with the personal jibes.

I think the context of my post makes sense to most. Get over yourself, relax and stop attacking posters with nonsensical witherings.

My post didn't even address you nor was it in anyway a meanhearted reply so spouting faux outrage to such an extent is ridiculous

Block button.

block button good man.

They may make sense if you stopped being passive aggressive toward anyone who has a different viewpoint.

pjohnson

Still think we got amazingly lucky to avoid a suspension. Meyler can step in for Arter now and we almost full strength (minus Coleman & Walters who are big misses)

The Talking Bread

You should review your own posts, constantly on the defensive and taking offence to anything and everything. Anyway, I am done.

Banjaxed82

pjohnson wrote: »

Still think we got amazingly lucky to avoid a suspension. Meyler can step in for Arter now and we almost full strength (minus Coleman & Walters who are big misses)

Wouldn't be dropping Arter on the back of the last two games. There's a decision to be made there because I don't think you can have Hendrick, Meyler and Arter in the same team for a home game you need to win.

alta stare

The Talking Bread wrote: »

You should review your own posts, constantly on the defensive and taking offence to anything and everything. Anyway, I am done.

I do with you because i see a bully who only sees his way and shouts down to people who doesnt agree.

As i said people are allowed have different viewpoints and i actually respect your viewpoint i just think you should respect other peoples and not act the way you do.

I would gladly go back talking about the football which is what we all want. Can i and others express my opinion without you questioning my passion or pride for Ireland?

pjohnson

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Wouldn't be dropping Arter on the back of the last two games. There's a decision to be made there because I don't think you can have Hendrick, Meyler and Arter in the same team for a home game you need to win.

Well the best decision would be Arter dropped. Hendrick is more likely to score than Arter and Meyler is better defensively so Arter just misses out. Unless we drop O'Dowda/Brady to push Hendrick forward.

pjohnson

Ahhh how cute a lovers tiff between alta and Bread. This kinda flirting always makes me feel warm inside xox

alta stare

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Wouldn't be dropping Arter on the back of the last two games. There's a decision to be made there because I don't think you can have Hendrick, Meyler and Arter in the same team for a home game you need to win.

To be fair to Arter i thought he played well last night so it will be a tough decision who to leave out.

noodler

pjohnson wrote: »

Well the best decision would be Arter dropped. Hendrick is more likely to score than Arter and Meyler is better defensively so Arter just misses out. Unless we drop O'Dowda/Brady to push Hendrick forward.

Thought Arter was pretty industrious last night.

He isn't an attacking midfielder, despite what some claim, but he gets about the place very well.

I am torn about the lineup, Wes from the start, hendrick again or what.

I don't think O'Dowda did enough personally to keep his place but, as others have pointed out, judging players on their attacking attributes last night means you'd give everyone a fail.

I'd have been sure Murphy would start again if the game wasn't coming so soon after last night.

pjohnson

noodler wrote: »

Thought Arter was pretty industrious last night.

He isn't an attacking midfielder, despite what some claim, but he gets about the place very well.

I am torn about the lineup, Wes from the start, hendrick again or what.

I don't think O'Dowda did enough personally to keep his place but, as others have pointed out, judging players on their attacking attributes last night means you'd give everyone a fail.

I'd have been sure Murphy would start again if the game wasn't coming so soon after last night.

Wes from the start is plain stupid. Hendrick would probably be better to try and run and keep Kvist/Delaney busy and tire them out. THEN bring on Wes. Wes wont last 90mins.

fullstop

keeponhurling wrote: »

We played well at home to Serbia.

We didn't.

the butcher

---

Randolph

---

--Christie--Duffy--Clark--Ward---

---

Arter----Meyler

---

--Brady---Hoolahan---McClean---

---

Long

---

That would be my preference but who knows at this stage.

People are forgetting how we played against Germany to beat them 1-0. Wes/Walters held up a lot of ball and lifted the constant pressure off our backs (who were hoofing the ball anywhere). Just because we play the long ball doesn't mean that Wes will be wasted. Give him the 55-60 minutes from the start, I think that will influence the rest to go out there and at least try some attacks. We need to score at this stage. Needs to be more open, risks need to be taken, if we are beat we are beat.

I mean compare this team to what we have now ->
https://www.fai.ie/ireland/match/3/2016/2014023

briany

A gif to sum up the game.

http://twitter.com/gearoidgarvey/status/929456090093367296

Banjaxed82

If Wes is being introduced from the bench it won't be because of a game plan it'll be because we're one nil down.

noodler

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

If Wes is being introduced from the bench it won't be because of a game plan it'll be because we're one nil down.

Aye - it'll be too late by then.

He can gladly go off after an hour if we are winning.

pjohnson

noodler wrote: »

Aye - it'll be too late by then.

He can gladly go off after an hour if we are winning.

And if we aren't and he is knackered?

Banjaxed82

pjohnson wrote: »

And if we aren't and he is knackered?

I don't really know what you want people say to this?

Why did we have a 34 year old striker up front by himself lat night?

Should we just drop Wes from the squad on Tuesday so?

Rekop dog

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Why did we have a 34 year old striker up front by himself last night

Because our options in that position are ridiculously sub par. It's miles from ideal that Murphy is probably our best choice right now.

limnam

chicorytip wrote: »

No more so than John Delaney. The sacking of Trappattoni came about largely because of critical comments by Dunphy and Giles rather than purely performance based grounds.

Nothing to do with the fact the players got to the stage where they ignored his tactics and decided to play the way they thought they should?

Losing the whole dressing room is grand, just don't upset giles and dunphy?

Get out of it.

tayto lover

I think we can get a win at home on Tuesday.
A scoreless draw away was not a bad result at all, hindsight is a great thing and many posters said we'd still be in it even if we lost 1 - 0 away. We didn't lose and we can certainly beat the Danes at home. It's a one-off now and we have home advantage with the crowd behind us.
That's a very good position to be in.

Banjaxed82

Rekop dog wrote: »

Because our options in that position are ridiculously sub par. It's miles from ideal that Murphy is probably our best choice right now.

Was it though?

When Denmark's game plan was to have their centre backs lob diagonal balls into our box, it might have made sense to use someone with legs and ideally a bit of pace to close them down and try and stifle this side of their game.

Shane Long can't hit a barn door but he could've done that job infinitely better than Murphy.

limnam

tayto lover wrote: »

I think we can get a win at home on Tuesday.
A scoreless draw away was not a bad result at all, hindsight is a great thing and many posters said we'd still be in it even if we lost 1 - 0 away. We didn't lose and we can certainly beat the Danes at home. It's a one-off now and we have home advantage with the crowd behind us.
That's a very good position to be in.

Absolutely. I stated before the game I'd take a scrappy 0-0 that's what we got.

Draw your away games try to win your home. Why suddenly doing what everyone else thinks is the right way to go about things is a tragedy is baffling.

Not getting beat by more than 1 goal would have been a decent night.

0-0 is a fantastic night.

Win one game at home against the danes for a spot in the world cup?

We'd have chewed the hang off anyone offering this pre group games.

Rekop dog

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Was it though?

When Denmark's game plan was to have their centre backs lob diagonal balls into our box, it might have made sense to use someone with legs and ideally a bit of pace to close them down and try and stifle this side of their game.

Shane Long can't hit a barn door but he could've done that job infinitely better than Murphy.

Aside from one effort in the first half that tactic didn't pay much dividend for them. We don't use a high press, and with our pretty outstanding defensive record it's hard to argue that we've done much wrong from a defensive pov.

And with regards your comparison of Wes and Murphy's age. A centre mid player generally gets through more distance over a match than any other position, Wes simply doesn't have the fitness levels to justify selection in this system.

pjohnson

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

I don't really know what you want people say to this?

Why did we have a 34 year old striker up front by himself lat night?

Should we just drop Wes from the squad on Tuesday so?

Starting a player who we know wont last 90 mins and expecting him to break down a defence before he tires seems unwise. Bringing him on when others are tired and he is still fresh seems logical.

~Rebel~

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Was it though?

When Denmark's game plan was to have their centre backs lob diagonal balls into our box, it might have made sense to use someone with legs and ideally a bit of pace to close them down and try and stifle this side of their game.

Shane Long can't hit a barn door but he could've done that job infinitely better than Murphy.

It's possible that was an option, but one you can only really use in one of the matches... that much running is next to impossible twice in 4 days. Perhaps Murphy was chosen for leg one in the game we weren't really setting out to win, so that in the game we do need to win, Long can be up there disrupting their tactics and helping us win the ball higher up the field.

pjohnson

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Was it though?

When Denmark's game plan was to have their centre backs lob diagonal balls into our box, it might have made sense to use someone with legs and ideally a bit of pace to close them down and try and stifle this side of their game.

Shane Long can't hit a barn door but he could've done that job infinitely better than Murphy.

So you want our lone striker to focus on preventing the opposition attacking rather than scoring himself?

Banjaxed82

pjohnson wrote: »

So you want our lone striker to focus on preventing the opposition attacking rather than scoring himself?

If it fundamentally alters how the opposition approach the game, then yes.

BorneTobyWilde

NIMAN wrote: »

If Wes is the answer, I don't know what the question is.

What is the first name of the director of A NightMare On Elm Street .

Banjaxed82

pjohnson wrote: »

Starting a player who we know wont last 90 mins and expecting him to break down a defence before he tires seems unwise. Bringing him on when others are tired and he is still fresh seems logical.

Incidentally, that Denmark defence isnt going to take any genius to break it down.

~Rebel~

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Incidentally, that Denmark defence isnt going to take any genius to break it down.

Indeed... they really didn't look great when under any pressure. Would love us to shoot out of the blocks in search of an early one (which we've a pretty decent record of), and then look to hit them on the break for a second.

TheCitizen

chicorytip wrote: »

No more so than John Delaney. The sacking of Trappattoni came about largely because of critical comments by Dunphy and Giles rather than purely performance based grounds.

Nonsense. The FAI got rid of Trap when it became clear that he was no longer capable of getting the team qualified or even compete for qualification. Qualifying brings in revenue. The FAI don’t give a shít what Dunphy and Brady says or about the style of play so long as the Avila is full and Ireland are competing for qualification.

limnam

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Incidentally, that Denmark defence isnt going to take any genius to break it down.

You can't just take a "defense" in a vacuum.

In order to get at them.

If you're not going route 1. You need to move players.
To move players you need.

Good passers of the ball.
Players with a good touch in tight spaces.
Creative players who can see the right passes.
Players with intelligent movement between the lines.
A team who regularly play this way.
A team who are confident in playing this way and it's encouraged.

We don't really have any of this.

This is why Wes as good as he is not the answer, because all the other elements to make use of Wes don't exist.

Someone else made the point about managers in the past who didn't use him are the real problem when at some points in his career we had players with the intelligence to make use of him. It's a shame.

In order to get the job done tuesday we don't need a sudden huge change where we try to go out and be all expansive.

We need to be rock solid and contain.
Try to control a bit with more with some prolonged periods of possession.
We don't need to be fancy with it, just keep it, pass it move nice and simple. something we failed to do so many times it also prevents us from getting knackered after 30 mins and going into last ditch tackles for an hour.

Hope we get a break or two and we can take any chance or any mistake gets punished.

1st part of the job was done last night.
It was a great result.
Now we just need to execute part 2 in a way a fairly limited team with limited options can.

Banjaxed82

limnam wrote: »

You can't just take a "defense" in a vacuum.

In order to get at them.

If you're not going route 1. You need to move players.
To move players you need.

Good passers of the ball.
Players with a good touch in tight spaces.
Creative players who can see the right passes.
Players with intelligent movement between the lines.
A team who regularly play this way.
A team who are confident in playing this way and it's encouraged.

We don't really have any of this.

This is why Wes as good as he is not the answer, because all the other elements to make use of Wes don't exist.

Someone else made the point about managers in the past who didn't use him are the real problem when at some points in his career we had players with the intelligence to make use of him. It's a shame.

In order to get the job done tuesday we don't need a sudden huge change where we try to go out and be all expansive.

We need to be rock solid and contain.
Try to control a bit with more with some prolonged periods of possession.
We don't need to be fancy with it, just keep it, pass it move nice and simple. something we failed to do so many times it also prevents us from getting knackered after 30 mins and going into last ditch tackles for an hour.

Hope we get a break or two and we can take any chance or any mistake gets punished.

1st part of the job was done last night.
It was a great result.
Now we just need to execute part 2 in a way a fairly limited team with limited options can.

There defence is no great skakes. We've scored against better defences in the last couple of years. That was my point.

There is more than one long ball way of skinning this Danish cat.

noodler

Rekop dog wrote: »

Wes simply doesn't have the fitness levels to justify selection in this system.

Except versus Sweden.

Except versus Austria.

Except versus Moldova.

Gizmo55

alta stare wrote: »

My god some of ye on here are unreal. Blinkered is not a word for ye.

A 0-0 here is to the advantage of the Danes. All they need to do is score 1 in Dublin that is of course going off our home record. So i am not being daft. We are playing a dangerous game which will be found out soon.

I’m saying we could have easily lost that 1-0 or 2-0. You’re right of course saying they only need to score one and we’re in the sh1t, I’m just saying things could have been much worse.

Banjaxed82

Ireland's current home form will go out the window. Tuesday will be a cup final. Everything that went before it in both results and performance will give you no frame of reference for what Tuesday will bring.

limnam

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Ireland's current home form will go out the window. Tuesday will be a cup final. Everything that went before it in both results and performance will give you no frame of reference for what Tuesday will bring.

What won't change is:

Our squad.
The ability of the players in the squad.
The line up options open to MON
The tactical and formation options open to MON.
MON's managerial style.

The only thing that's really going to throw up any surprises is an early goal for the dane's

You can pretty much write the commentary minute for minute otherwise.

alta stare

Gizmo55 wrote: »

I’m saying we could have easily lost that 1-0 or 2-0. You’re right of course saying they only need to score one and we’re in the sh1t, I’m just saying things could have been much worse.

Yeah they could of been i just wish i had the confidence in the team that they will score a couple of goals in Dublin. Unfortunately they have proven they struggle at home. Btw im not looking to be negative i really wish and hope we win on tuesday.

I used to be really positive about the Ireland team but this campign moreso than the last has me at the point where watching Ireland throw away good position after good position is making me loose my already scarce hair even quicker than expected.

Arghus

We'll only know after Tuesday if 0-0 away from home was a good result.

limnam

Arghus wrote: »

We'll only know after Tuesday if 0-0 away from home was a good result.

No.

It's good a result.

What happens on Tuesday doesn't change the fact.

briany

Yeah, you can pat yourself for keeping a game scoreless at half time, but if the score ends up 0-2 at full time, nobody will care about that. A two legged playoff is much the same way. The score after the first leg will be resigned to little more than a statistic; a question on Know Your Sport 2035.

limnam

briany wrote: »

Yeah, you can pat yourself for keeping a game scoreless at half time, but if the score ends up 0-2 at full time, nobody will care about that. A two legged playoff is much the same way. The score after the first leg will be resigned to little more than a statistic; a question on Know Your Sport 2035.

No.

Your view is simplistic and results based.

Doing the "right" thing is always right regardless of the outcome.

Alfa Quadrifoglio

Bottom line we need to win on Tuesday, if Denmark score we will be in trouble. We wont change our style too much so dont be surprised if it is settled on penalties. Crowd will play a huge role and can be the 12th man. Wont be pretty but I cannot wait, great drama coming up!

munsterlegend

Eriksen is again the danger and will have more space on Tuesday night. I think the Danes lack a bit of pace at the back and Long will start on Tuesday night with Wes held in reserve for the second half. I think we'll get plenty chances hopefully we can take them.

AllGunsBlazing

munsterlegend wrote: »

Eriksen is again the danger and will have more space on Tuesday night.

Only if he creates it for himself. Tactically, O'Neill will approach this exactly the same way as Copenhagen.