Denmark vs Ireland, World Cup Play-Off 1st Leg, kick-off 7.45, RTE 2 & Sky Sports

johnpatrick81

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

But when someone can’t see the irony of lauding one manager and hammering the other for using the same tactics, even when the former has a far greater skill set at his disposal, then that someone has lost it completely.

You obviously haven't been watching many of Man Utds games this season or are completely clueless if you believe the tactics MON is using are the same as the tactics Jose is using.

You as a Liverpool fan take issue with me a Utd fan every time you get a chance and not for the first time feel the need to bring Man Utd into every single thread regardless of what team it's about.

For somebody who obsesses about bringing them up you don't really know anything about how they are currently playing.

johnpatrick81

M!Ck^ wrote: »

You obviously haven't been watching many of Man Utds games this season or are completely clueless if you believe the tactics MON is using are the same as the tactics Jose is using.

You as a Liverpool fan take issue with me a Utd fan every time you get a chance and not for the first time feel the need to bring Man Utd into every single thread regardless of what team it's about.

For somebody who obsesses about bringing them up you don't really know anything about how they are currently playing.

It’s the second time I brought it up. Both times with you. Both in relation to you being delighted with Jose parking the bus at Anfield, yet hammering O’Neill for doing the same.

It’s the perfect comparison. Yet you can’t get your head around it cos “club football is entirely different”

Yes, it’s different, in that O Neill has a far poorer squad to choose from. Which only strengthens my point.

You’re a disgrace of an Ireland “fan”, and if we pull off what would be one of our great achievements tomorrow, you don’t deserve to take any pride or pleasure in it.

johnpatrick81

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

It’s the second time I brought it up. Both times with you. Both in relation to you being delighted with Jose parking the bus at Anfield, yet hammering O’Neill for doing the same.

It’s the perfect comparison. Yet you can’t get your head around it cos “club football is entirely different”

Yes, it’s different, in that O Neill has a far poorer squad to choose from. Which only strengthens my point.

You’re a disgrace of an Ireland “fan”, and if we pull off what would be one of our great achievements tomorrow, you don’t deserve to take any pride or pleasure in it.

Really, quote me where I said I was delighted?

And no it's not a perfect comparison at all.
It's actually dreadful comparison considering again it seems you haven't watched how Man Utd play and our approach each game individually.

MON plays the same way in nearly every game home or away regardless of the opposition.

Georgia were made look like Brazil, and was one of the worst most embarrassing performances in recent memory.

And even if a pragmatic approach is used it can still contain some sort of constructive football again regardless of technical ability. That midfield was more than capable of creating something (anything, even 4 passes maybe?) within a 90 minute period.
But they were simply told not to do so.

Oh an LOL at your last ranty bit in the post

johnpatrick81

Part of you probably hopes we don’t get through tomorrow, just so you don’t look like such an idiot on an Internet forum. Go on, admit it.

Pathetic. LMAO

LuckyLloyd

Play every game the same?

Nah

Approach to Serbia at home was different to Wales and Denmark away Chief.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Play every game nearly the same?

Nah

Approach to Serbia at home was different to Wales and Denmark away Chief.

Nah

You forgot a bit

Also, into context the position we got ourselves in because of said **** approach in the previous game

Bridge93

I know we were utter muck against them but if I hear that we made Georgia ‘look like brazil’ one more time I’ll throw my phone out the window.

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

I know we were utter muck against them but if I hear that we made Georgia ‘look like brazil’ one more time I’ll throw my phone out the window.

You may have read it I suspect.
I can repeat it for you though in a more constructive manner.

We handed the ball to Georgia in nearly every opportunity and had absolutely no plan tactically to play the ball whatsoever as MON believes we are not good enough to play constructive football against a team ranked 107 in the world.

johnpatrick81

26/04/15 Arsenal 0 Chelsea 0
16/08/15 City 3 Chelsea 0
29/11/15 Spurs 0 Chelsea 0
17/10/16 Liverpool 0 United 0
23/10/16 Chelsea 4 United 0
27/04/17 City 0 United 0
07/05/17 Arsenal 2 United 0
14/05/17 Spurs 2 United 1
14/10/17 Liverpool 0 United 0

At least O Neill releases the handbrake on his bus from time to time :pac:

Far better results against bigger teams too.

Maybe you should redirect your negative energy elsewhere muck, it’s time we got behind the national team rather than making petty pot shots at them.

Bridge93

M!Ck^ wrote: »

You may have read it I suspect.
I can repeat it for you though in a more constructive manner.

We handed the ball to Georgia in nearly every opportunity and had absolutely no plan tactically to play the ball whatsoever as MON believes we are not good enough to play constructive football against a team ranked 107 in the world.

No I’ve heard it repeatedly here, at work, at training, Facebook, etc.

I agree. And that made our performance vile. But Georgia were still poor enough to be unable to beat us playing our worst in years, at home. Not exactly Brazil

johnpatrick81

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

26/04/15 Arsenal 0 Chelsea 0
16/08/15 City 3 Chelsea 0
29/11/15 Spurs 0 Chelsea 0
17/10/16 Liverpool 0 United 0
23/10/16 Chelsea 4 United 0
27/04/17 City 0 United 0
07/05/17 Arsenal 2 United 0
14/05/17 Spurs 2 United 1
14/10/17 Liverpool 0 United 0

At least O Neill releases the handbrake on his bus from time to time :pac:

Far better results against bigger teams too.

Maybe you should redirect your negative energy elsewhere muck, it’s time we got behind the national team rather than making petty pot shots at them.

This is a football forum, I will discuss what I believe to be major issues with MON from a managerial perspective which is impacting the team negatively.

Go start a blog if you don't want to be challenged on it.

And regardless of what happens tomorrow night I will still question said tactics whatever the outcome.

I felt this team was good enough to win the group outright considering how it all played out and the great position we got ourselves into at a certain stage in the group.

Petty pot shots in bold I'd suspect. Hypocrisy in the same post.

Bridge93

Bridge93 wrote: »

No I’ve heard it repeatedly here, at work, at training, Facebook, etc.

I agree. And that made our performance vile. But Georgia were still poor enough to be unable to beat us playing our worst in years, at home. Not exactly Brazil

It boiled down to tactics why we played this way and that is the core issue with most of the games we have played within the group and on Saturday night.

Were Denmark any better?
Were they beatable on Saturday?
IMO they most certainly were

pjohnson

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Part of you probably hopes we don’t get through tomorrow, just so you don’t look like such an idiot on an Internet forum. Go on, admit it.

Pathetic. LMAO

Theres plenty who would be sick to their stomach if we qualify. They'll still whinge regardless but wont get half as many thanks and be bigger laughing stocks.

Rekop dog

M!Ck^ wrote: »

It boiled down to tactics why we played this way and that is the core issue with most of the games we have played within the group and on Saturday night.

Were Denmark any better?
Were they beatable on Saturday?
IMO they most certainly were

We by and large nullified their attacking threats Saturday. Watch them against more open sides in previous matches, they're well able to expose sides if given the space.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Had we been more positive on Saturday we're naturally opening ourselves up more defensively and moving away from our biggest strength.
Suddenly the *beatable* Denmark will look far less beatable. You seem to fail to get your head around this concept or are either delusional about the talent level in our squad against technically superior sides, it's one or the other.

Rekop dog

Rekop dog wrote: »

We by and large nullified their attacking threats Saturday. Watch them against more open sides in previous matches, they're well able to expose sides if given the space.

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Had we been more positive on Saturday we're naturally opening ourselves up more defensively and moving away from our biggest strength.
Suddenly the *beatable* Denmark will look far less beatable. You seem to fail to get your head around this concept or are either delusional about the talent level in our squad against technically superior sides, it's one or the other.

You fail to consider you can play football in a pragmatic manner and still attempt to play some form of constructive football.
If this is acceptable to you then so be it. It's not acceptable for me.

pjohnson

pjohnson wrote: »

Theres plenty who would be sick to their stomach if we qualify. They'll still whinge regardless but wont get half as many thanks and be bigger laughing stocks.

I hadn't realized Ireland qualifying for a major tournament or not qualifying is all ultimately about thanks and laughs on an Internet forum.

I will be bitterly disappointed if we fail to qualify and I will be delighted if we do come tomorrow night.

Not sure why that goes hand in hand in trying to constructively discuss the issues on hand on said internet forum in a thread about the Irish national team.

Some lads on hear tend to get aggressive and quite honestly petty if they can't hack the fact someone doesn't agree with them.

TheCitizen

M!Ck^ wrote: »

If someone feels the need to bring Man Utd into a near every conversation about the Republic of Ireland thread then I think they are loosing it a bit.

In particular when that team are second in the league and have the second highest goal difference in said league they must be doing something more than backs to the wall every game to achieve said points and goals.

So you’re going to have a go at MON and his Ireland team for being overly cautious/pragmatic but then get prickly as a Man Yoo fan if someone accuses your team manager Mourinho of being the same with far more expensive players. LOL

johnpatrick81

Some of us just get tired of reading the same pot shots at our manager when he’s doing a damn fine job with limited resources.

Calling getting a 0-0 on Saturday “lucky” is just plain disrespectful and wrong.

Save your muck til after the game and try and get behind the team for a change.

Rekop dog

M!Ck^ wrote: »

You fail to consider you can play football in a pragmatic manner and still attempt to play some form of constructive football.
If this is acceptable to you then so be it. It's not acceptable for me.

We've beaten teams such as Germany, Italy, Bosnia, Austria and Wales all with better playing pools than us (some ridiculously better) playing with this *unacceptable* style. We've comparatively dropped points against worse sides than us very seldom. But anyway we've been here before, there's no changing your mind.

Rekop dog

Rekop dog wrote: »

We've beaten teams such as Germany, Italy, Bosnia, Austria and Wales all with better playing pools than us (some ridiculously better) playing with this *unacceptable* style. We've comparatively dropped points against worse sides than us very seldom. But anyway we've been here before, there's no changing your mind.

Same goes for you.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

So you’re going to have a go at MON and his Ireland team for being overly cautious/pragmatic but then get prickly as a Man Yoo fan if someone accuses your team manager Mourinho of being the same with far more expensive players. LOL

Really? When did this happen? People are entitled to engage and say whatever they want about Jose and Man Utd. But again, don't expect not to be challenged on it.

johnpatrick81

People can call the result on Saturday lucky, but they will be challenged.

~Rebel~

I think we can probably all agree that with our players, we could play a better brand of football. But the question always remains, would it be as effective.

There seems to be a clear set of rules the players have to follow, and chief amongst them is 'no risks'. We give them nothing easy around our goal, even if its to the detriment of our own build up play. The pass back to Randolph, followed by the inevitable punt up the field is annoying to watch, but does that certainty throughout the team make us more solid and consistent? Does introducing an element of 'case by case' without the appropriate amount of preparation time on the training field introduce uncertainty?

I dont know the answer, but it's an important thing to consider when critiquing our play.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I think we can probably all agree that with our players, we could play a better brand of football. But the question always remains, would it be as effective.

There seems to be a clear set of rules the players have to follow, and chief amongst them is 'no risks'. We give them nothing, even if its to the detriment of our own build up play. The pass back to Randolph, followed by the inevitable punt up the field is annoying to watch, but does that certainty throughout the team make us more solid and consistent? Does introducing an element of 'case by case' without the appropriate amount of preparation time o the training field introduce uncertainty?

I dont know the answer, but it's an important thing to consider when critiquing our play.

Good post, and still considers both sides of the debate.
I've always said you can play defensively and chose against who and exactly how.
I have an issue in the archaic approach MON uses to do so. Others don't.

Arghus

I think Mick is being fair enough in his criticisms of O' Neill's style of play. The fact that he supports United has got nothing to do with it - that's just petty whataboutery.

If we qualify I will be utterly delighted, but we play utterly atrocious soul sapping football, let's not pretend otherwise.

limnam

~Rebel~ wrote: »

I think we can probably all agree that with our players, we could play a better brand of football. But the question always remains, would it be as effective.

I watched the game again to view with less emotions.

There's no reason we can't play the way MON wants us to play _and_ play that well.

Just look at the dane's. People said they also played hoofball. A lot of their so called "hoofs" were beautifully weighted "long" balls into thier player in space and in fact this created their best chance of the game.

They also played the ball around nicely from the back and had some nice exchanges outside our box.

So for me it's not about not playing hoofball it's about "hoofing" at the right time into the right space and work to create the "hoof" opportunity. Denmark did this a lot.

We can play well, be effective, be tight AND pass the ball AND hoof the ball at the same time.

Why we don't do it I'e no idea.

I can't imagine MON and keane saying just lash it up there when no one has any hope of winning the ball for it to come straight back it doesn't make any sense. But I also can't see the players deciding to do this off thier own back's eithier.

So does the keeper do it as no one shows for the ball?

I'm not sure as I saw at least once the defender coming and been ignored.

Do the defenders do it because there's no one bar wes willing to come towards them and take responsibility?

TheCitizen

Arghus wrote: »

I think Mick is being fair enough in his criticisms of O' Neill's style of play. The fact that he supports United has got nothing to do with it - that's just petty whataboutery.

If we qualify I will be utterly delighted, but we play utterly atrocious soul sapping football, let's not pretend otherwise.

Sometimes we’re overly cautious, sometimes we’re inexplicaply flat like the home game v Austria. However on other occasions we can play a bit, like v Sweden, Italy, France, Bosnia. We’re hoping for a Bosnia type attitude and performance tomorrow night where we take the intitiative. I think that’s the best way to beat the negative Danish side under Hareide.

As regards Mourinho, sometimes they play expansive football, sometimes they’re happy to dig in for a 0-0 draw and fire long balls at Lukaku leaving him totally isolated. Mick there is happy to criticize MON and Ireland for negative football but gets all defensive when questioned about Mourinho when he deploys similar tactics. It’s fair game when he’s pulled up for that .

noodler

Arghus wrote: »

I think Mick is being fair enough in his criticisms of O' Neill's style of play. The fact that he supports United has got nothing to do with it - that's just petty whataboutery.

If we qualify I will be utterly delighted, but we play utterly atrocious soul sapping football, let's not pretend otherwise.

Aye.

Article in the Times today about this.

We no longer (or shouldn't at least) at being called a defensive or physical side because it's never been as true.


The idea some don't want us to qualify is nonsense.

Arghus

TheCitizen wrote: »

Sometimes we’re overly cautious, sometimes we’re inexplicaply flat like the home game v Austria. However on other occasions we can play a bit, like v Sweden, Italy, France, Bosnia. We’re hoping for a Bosnia type attitude and performance tomorrow night where we take the intitiative. I think that’s the best way to beat the negative Danish side under Hareide.

As regards Mourinho, sometimes they play expansive football, sometimes they’re happy to dig in for a 0-0 draw and fire long balls at Lukaku leaving him totally isolated. Mick there is happy to criticize MON and Ireland for negative football but gets all defensive when questioned about Mourinho when he deploys similar tactics. It’s fair game when he’s pulled up for that .

Well I don't support United and I hate Mourinho and I agree completely with what Mick has to say about O'Neill's Ireland. People should deal with the substance of what he's saying: not just go trawling through his post history, when what Mourinho does or doesn't do has literally zero relevance in discussions about Ireland.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Sometimes we’re overly cautious, sometimes we’re inexplicaply flat like the home game v Austria. However on other occasions we can play a bit, like v Sweden, Italy, France, Bosnia. We’re hoping for a Bosnia type attitude and performance tomorrow night where we take the intitiative. I think that’s the best way to beat the negative Danish side under Hareide.

As regards Mourinho, sometimes they play expansive football, sometimes they’re happy to dig in for a 0-0 draw and fire long balls at Lukaku leaving him totally isolated. Mick there is happy to criticize MON and Ireland for negative football but gets all defensive when questioned about Mourinho when he deploys similar tactics. It’s fair game when he’s pulled up for that .

Again you haven't been watching Jose's man utd if you believe he uses the same approach MON does. And to note it continues to be other posters bringing in Utd into the debate.

I never once said it's not fair game, I couldn't give a toss if you challange me on whatever you like.
Some assumption I'm getting defensive? I will stand by opinions, woop di doo!

However I never once called anyone an idiot or deluded like the manner of some posters did here getting completely worked up because they can't hack that I don't agree with them.

rizzodun

aaaand unfollow.....

TheCitizen

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Again you haven't been watching Jose's man utd if you believe he uses the same approach MON does. And to note it continues to be other posters brining I'm Utd into the debate.

I never once said it's not fair game, I couldn't give a toss if you challange me on whatever you like.
Some assumption I'm getting defensive? I will stand by opinions, woop di doo!

However I never once called anyone an idiot or deluded like the manner of some posters did here getting completely worked up because they can't hack that I don't agree with them.

I watched the match v Liverpool. Mourinho instructed his side to frustrate Liverpool and it worked. For the plan to work to perfection he was hoping Klopp would gamble at a certain point which would lead to an opportunity for Man U to hit them on the break. Klopp and Liverpool didn’t gamble, largely maintained their original shape and the game ended in a stalemate.

Arghus

And are people being serious in suggesting that because Ireland are defence first that's there's some similarity in style with Mourinho's United? One of those teams might be defensive, but the other plays complete cave-man stuff. There's simply no comparison and people making it are being ridiculous.

Effective cave- man stuff, in results terms: I'll fully admit that, but Ireland are so bad with the ball it beggars belief!

rizzodun

rizzodun wrote: »

aaaand unfollow.....

Why not just unfollow? Why post and tell us?

johnpatrick81

Some absolute muck being posted. Name the last limited team who play sexy football!

In recent memory, Greece, Iceland, Northern Ireland all spring to mind. Limited teams playing to their strengths, in a not dis-similar way to MON’s approach.

Mick was called out because he was stating the 0-0 Saturday was pure luck. Utter rubbish.

I’m using the United analogy because he had a great time lauding it over Liverpool fans yet on the same hand he repeatedly slates MON for using the same approach, giving Jose a free pass.

It’s just tiresome and also seems petty and personal towards MON when he calls results lucky.

Anyone would swear he wanted Ireland to lose if you read his repeated negative posts about MON.

Change the record.

We’d all have loved playing tiki taki around our defense on Saturday playing into Denmark’s hands.

Muck.

TheCitizen

Arghus wrote: »

And are people being serious in suggesting that because Ireland are defence first that's there's some similarity in style with Mourinho's United? One of those teams might be defensive, but the other plays complete cave-man stuff. There's simply no comparison and people making it are being ridiculous.

Effective cave- man stuff, in results terms: I'll fully admit that, but Ireland are so bad with the ball it beggars belief!

I’d imagine when you say caveman stuff it would be stuff like when you leave your striker isolated up front and launch balls at him, usually giving up possession. That’s exactly what Man U did v Liverpool. Did you watch the game?

Arghus

TheCitizen wrote: »

I’d imagine when you say caveman stuff it would be stuff like when you leave your striker isolated up front and launch balls at him, usually giving up possession. That’s exactly what Man U did v Liverpool. Did you watch the game?

Ah will you stop: are you for real?

United may have played defensively and showed little creatively, in the game you mentioned, but Ireland - on the ball - are many, many rungs below even that: they can not string more than four passes together! I have seen League of Ireland teams with more composure in possession! To say that because both are defensive, therefore they are exactly the same is pure nonsense.

johnpatrick81

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

Some absolute muck being posted. Name the last limited team who play sexy football!

In recent memory, Greece, Iceland, Northern Ireland all spring to mind. Limited teams playing to their strengths, in a not dis-similar way to MON’s approach.

Mick was called out because he was stating the 0-0 Saturday was pure luck. Utter rubbish.

I’m using the United analogy because he had a great time lauding it over Liverpool fans yet on the same hand he repeatedly slates MON for using the same approach, giving Jose a free pass.

It’s just tiresome and also seems petty and personal towards MON when he calls results lucky.

Anyone would swear he wanted Ireland to lose if you read his repeated negative posts about MON.

Change the record.

We’d all have loved playing tiki taki around our defense on Saturday playing into Denmark’s hands.

Muck.

All those teams you listed actually play some form of progressive football. Iceland are a joy to watch to note.
And Michael O' Neils NI can be argued actually play a better style of football than we do currently. And only for a dreadful decision they could have qualified out of group containing Germany, Czech Republic, Northern Ireland and Norway.
The result can most definatly be considered lucky given that only for some great saves we should have lost.
Oh and you keep saying I have been lauding it over Liverpool fans and never once have provided any evidence. Again ultimately nothing got to do with MON and his approach to football. What Jose does in certain games is not the same as what MON does in the majority.
And last but not least, your posting is borderline childish if you believe I want Ireland to lose.
I will continue to call out MON if he uses these archaic tactics. Get over it.
I've never once said we should play tiki taki football either. Playing the basics every now and then and not continuously hoofing aimless balls from the back / keeper is not that hard of a task.

johnpatrick81

You responded to any debate regarding Jose’s use of tactics (the same tactics you seem to want MON murdered for utilizing btw) with “top of the league” and call me childish? You did get a full two hours out of that.

Northern Ireland playing expansive football eh? We’ll leave it there so Roisin, that’s a wrap! :pac:

TheCitizen

Arghus wrote: »

Ah will you stop: are you for real?

United may have played defensively and showed little creatively, in the game you mentioned, but Ireland - on the ball - are many, many rungs below even that: they can not string more than four passes together! I have seen League of Ireland teams with more composure in possession! To say that because both are defensive, therefore they are exactly the same is pure nonsense.

In the Liverpool match they simply launched long balls at Lukaku and left him isolated, that's what happened. They were quite happy to do that hoping Liverpool would gamble and leave them opportunities to counter attack. They did that with a very expensively assembled side.

Did you watch the Liverpool v Man U game recently or not, are you for real?

NIMAN

Utd and Liverpool fans, take it outside >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

pjohnson

NIMAN wrote: »

Utd and Liverpool fans, take it outside >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

God no let them stay here dickswinging and we can start a thread for the second leg.

johnpatrick81

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

You responded to any debate regarding Jose’s use of tactics (the same tactics you seem to want MON murdered for utilizing btw) with “top of the league” and call me childish? You did get a full two hours out of that.

Northern Ireland playing expansive football eh? We’ll leave it there so Roisin, that’s a wrap! :pac:

They are not the same. You haven't been watching Man Utd bar the Liverpool game it seems.
Yes, it's childish to suggest I want the team to lose.
Also, Man Utd are second in the league not first.
So you think Northern Ireland use the same tactics ROI do?

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

Utd and Liverpool fans, take it outside >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I didn't bring Utd into this at all thanks.

NIMAN

Well someone did. I didn't say any one person did.

Kermit.de.frog

Denmark not practicing for penos because they say they won't need them.

johnpatrick81

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Denmark not practicing for penos because they say they won't need them.

They were rattled after the game bigtime. Hopefully they’ll come out all guns blazing as that would fall right into O’Neill’s trap.

Arghus

I couldn't care less about Jose or United and I don't know or care about what Mick has to say about it, but I completely agree with him about O' Neill's approach.

Can people get their brain around the fact that we are talking about Ireland here?

johnpatrick81

Northern Ireland were thrilling alright. Think they had their first shot on target towards the end of the first half.....IN THE SECOND LEG

Arghus

TheCitizen wrote: »

In the Liverpool match they simply launched long balls at Lukaku and left him isolated, that's what happened. They were quite happy to do that hoping Liverpool would gamble and leave them opportunities to counter attack. They did that with a very expensively assembled side.

Did you watch the Liverpool v Man U game recently or not, are you for real?

So I can't criticise O'Neill's style of football because a totally different team, under a different manager, played defensively in another match this year?

That makes sense.