Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

RabbleRouser2k

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

It's about Conor McGregor and it's written by Sean Moncrieff...

God, I remember when he was on The End, making tons of politically incorrect jokes...
Now he's virtue signalling.

Gone down the Matt cooper route - afraid to rock the boat or say anything that might get some windbag on twitter offended (and media claiming it’s lots when it’s a handful) - saw what happened to Hook and now hitching their wagon to these loons

DavidLyons_

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Have people seen the latest man-shaming bullsh!t from the Irish Times?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/sean-moncrieff-men-need-to-be-saved-from-themselves-1.3458256

"Men need to be saved from themselves"

Ehhhh, I'm doing ok for myself, personally, thanks for the offer though

Deary me. That is nonsense of the highest order. Some elements of the media are just a joke.

Don't think the likes of Moncreiff and Blindboy will ever be spokesmen for the vast majority of males, thankfully.

Gravelly

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Ummm...you do know Kevin Clash, the puppeteer and original voice of Elmo, is an alleged sexual predator, right? (He's gay, and it's alleged he had relationships with minors, all male).

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/final-sex-abuse-lawsuit-elmo-713746

The reason the cases were struck out were due to a number of issues, including statute of limitations. There was never a case of 'he's innocent/ he's guilty' more a case of 'the victims left it too late'.

Elmo's a bad example to use even as a joke.

Yeah, cos everyone knew about that :rolleyes:

The J Stands for Jay

Omackeral wrote: »

Are you a young man? Because if you are, you need feminism. That's how Blindboy tells it and he is woke AF.

Imagine a woke Alex Ferguson.

Ulysses Gaze

McGaggs wrote: »

Imagine a woke Alex Ferguson.

mzungu

New thread title is a win.

Gravelly

mzungu wrote: »

New thread title is a win.

But Louise would never have anything to do with America, America = Trump, and we all know Trump is a whitesupremicistrapetalkingevildictator.

Except book royalties, obviously, they're ok.

johnnyskeleton

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Have people seen the latest man-shaming bullsh!t from the Irish Times?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/sean-moncrieff-men-need-to-be-saved-from-themselves-1.3458256

"Men need to be saved from themselves"

Ehhhh, I'm doing ok for myself, personally, thanks for the offer though

I agree with you. The short version of that article is that men should be women, and that anyone saying men should be women should stop pretending that there's an attack on masculinity!

I also think that his examples of bad role models is wrong. Conor McGregor is a working class lad who is now a multi millionaire. He got there by putting his health and life on the line, absolute single minded dedication to his sport, incredible self awareness and awareness of how to work the publicity circuit, taking on fights against much bigger opponents without a thought for his own safety. Now that he is a multi millionaire he looks after his mother, his girlfriend and his son. He even takes time out of his busy training to help out his sister who is also trying to get into the celebrity world.

People criticise him because he has a bit of swagger to him, because he has made some off colour comments and because he is currently accused of committing a very trivial criminal damage/assault.

I'm not a big fan of McGregor and I don't like the UFC, but as a role model I can clearly see that he is showing people that they should take no nonsense, be themselves, show dedication and hard work towards their goals/passions, and ultimately be very respectful of your family. That makes him a very good role model.

johnnyskeleton

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of McGregor and I don't like the UFC, but as a role model I can clearly see that he is showing people that they should take no nonsense, be themselves, show dedication and hard work towards their goals/passions, and ultimately be very respectful of your family. That makes him a very good role model.

Agreed... I can't stand him myself... but he managed to succeed very well without receiving handouts. There is this fear of hard work and commitment these days. As if they're almost dirty words. Anyone who makes themselves a success is a threat, because it suggests that the rest of us who just complain are really lazy gits.

Icemancometh

Deleted User wrote: »

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I'm not a big fan of McGregor and I don't like the UFC, but as a role model I can clearly see that he is showing people that they should take no nonsense, be themselves, show dedication and hard work towards their goals/passions, and ultimately be very respectful of your family. That makes him a very good role model.

Agreed... I can't stand him myself... but he managed to succeed very well without receiving handouts. There is this fear of hard work and commitment these days. As if they're almost dirty words. Anyone who makes themselves a success is a threat, because it suggests that the rest of us who just complain are really lazy gits.

Wasn't he on the dole for ages when he was training?

Omackeral

MikeyTaylor wrote: »

Guys can we just pick a title for this thread and stick to it please?

Do you like the new thread title?



I swear I didn't PM the Mod...

Icemancometh

Icemancometh wrote: »

Wasn't he on the dole for ages when he was training?

Can't say being of the dole and aiming to go off it later bothers me much. I'm more bothered by the people who go on the dole, and stay on it.

Th funny thing I found about the Dole was that it was so geared towards people who were on it for a long time. I went on the dole for a few months after I returned to Ireland, received 119 euro for a few week, and got off it as quickly as possible. But all the initiatives and work placements really focused on people who were on welfare for at least a year. Nothing for newcomers. [I'm stuck in my hometown due my parents illnesses, and there aren't many jobs here. In the end, I studied and started freelancing to make an income. Not everyone gets a useful amount from welfare.]

In any case, I don't mind people using the dole to better themselves. God knows, we all pay enough on those people who never do.

Grayson

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I agree with you. The short version of that article is that men should be women, and that anyone saying men should be women should stop pretending that there's an attack on masculinity!

I also think that his examples of bad role models is wrong. Conor McGregor is a working class lad who is now a multi millionaire. He got there by putting his health and life on the line, absolute single minded dedication to his sport, incredible self awareness and awareness of how to work the publicity circuit, taking on fights against much bigger opponents without a thought for his own safety. Now that he is a multi millionaire he looks after his mother, his girlfriend and his son. He even takes time out of his busy training to help out his sister who is also trying to get into the celebrity world.

People criticise him because he has a bit of swagger to him, because he has made some off colour comments and because he is currently accused of committing a very trivial criminal damage/assault.

I'm not a big fan of McGregor and I don't like the UFC, but as a role model I can clearly see that he is showing people that they should take no nonsense, be themselves, show dedication and hard work towards their goals/passions, and ultimately be very respectful of your family. That makes him a very good role model.

I don't think McGregor is a good role model. Sure he's a multi millionaire but that's not enough. We can all name loads of people who were working class, worked hard and became a success. And not all of them would be decent people.

Smashing up a bus filled with people automatically nullifies his ability to be a suitable role model. It's not something that young people should aspire to. It's not the behavior that a suitable role model should project.

professore

Grayson wrote: »

I don't think McGregor is a good role model. Sure he's a multi millionaire but that's not enough. We can all name loads of people who were working class, worked hard and became a success. And not all of them would be decent people.

Smashing up a bus filled with people automatically nullifies his ability to be a suitable role model. It's not something that young people should aspire to. It's not the behavior that a suitable role model should project.

Just about every role model you can hold up has flaws - many have very serious flaws. McGregor's are just amplified because lots of people want to see him fail. I would still argue his merits far outweigh his flaws.

Case in point, the recent rugby rape trial. If McGregor had been on trial he would have had very few defenders on here, unlike Jackson et al.

upandcumming

professore wrote: »

Case in point, the recent rugby rape trial. If McGregor had been on trial he would have had very few defenders on here, unlike Jackson et al.

While I agree with you, please don't.

Grayson

professore wrote: »

Just about every role model you can hold up has flaws - many have very serious flaws. McGregor's are just amplified because lots of people want to see him fail. I would still argue his merits far outweigh his flaws.

Case in point, the recent rugby rape trial. If McGregor had been on trial he would have had very few defenders on here, unlike Jackson et al.

He flaws are amplified because he trashed a bus with people inside. People who got cut with glass. That's not because people want to see him fail, that's because of his own actions. And those actions aren't excusable.
Neither of us can say for certain how much support he would have gotten in a rape trail but I think his fans probably would have been just as loyal as the rugby players fans who supported the players. I see no evidence to suggest otherwise.

johnnyskeleton

Grayson wrote: »

It's not something that young people should aspire to. It's not the behavior that a suitable role model should project.

Ah it is

Outlaw Pete

Grayson wrote: »

I don't think McGregor is a good role model.

Sometimes he's not so bad......


https://twitter.com/thenotoriousmma/status/784065673207111680

upandcumming

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Sometimes he's not so bad......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJHUbtR0yI8

xtal191

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Have people seen the latest man-shaming bullsh!t from the Irish Times?

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/sean-moncrieff-men-need-to-be-saved-from-themselves-1.3458256

"Men need to be saved from themselves"

Ehhhh, I'm doing ok for myself, personally, thanks for the offer though

RabbleRouser2k

Icemancometh wrote: »

Wasn't he on the dole for ages when he was training?

So was JK Rowling...and before she became a virtue signalling dope, she was someone to aspire to.

I'd imagine nearly everyone has been on it at some point. It's harsh going. He also trained as a plumber or electrician, so he has a trade to fall back on.
Seems only Leo V. has a major problem with people being on it-didn't understand the crappy situations and circumstances that get people on it. (Not everyone is trying to defraud the system).

Grayson wrote: »

I don't think McGregor is a good role model. Sure he's a multi millionaire but that's not enough. We can all name loads of people who were working class, worked hard and became a success. And not all of them would be decent people.

Smashing up a bus filled with people automatically nullifies his ability to be a suitable role model. It's not something that young people should aspire to. It's not the behavior that a suitable role model should project.

There's always a disturbingly greater sense of scrutiny on working class people done good, by the media. There's this call to 'be less toxic masculinity'-not realising that 'controlled masculinity' is how these guys make a success of life.
Al Porter's from a posh neighbourhood-and is getting defended left and right for his molestation accusations by high profile individuals.
McGregor did something stupid, and will probably get a conviction from it-but is he being held to the same level of scrutiny as Al Porter? Nope.

I won't defend McGregor-it was a dumb thing to do. But to call this 'toxic masculinity', as Moncrieff implies, is to be a ridiculous idiot.

'toxic masculinity', meh. There are degrees of stupidity with both genders. God knows, I've done idiotic things in my life even after I reached my *cough* mature side of 30. I'm, thankfully, in my 40s now and only do idiotic things in countries where people don't speak english, and can't post to western Social media.

When are we going to hear about Toxic femininity? I mean, I've seen some horrendous behavior (I'd never even consider doing drunk, stoned or tripping) by women who were perfectly sober when they did it. Why is it that women get such a free pass for their behavior, and there's no collective guilt applied for the actions of a "few"...?

I do think we need to start spreading the idea of Toxic femininity, if only to show women/feminists just how unjust the whole concept is, and how open the concept is to abuse.

mzungu

Deleted User wrote: »

'toxic masculinity', meh. There are degrees of stupidity with both genders. God knows, I've done idiotic things in my life even after I reached my *cough* mature side of 30. I'm, thankfully, in my 40s now and only do idiotic things in countries where people don't speak english, and can't post to western Social media.

When are we going to hear about Toxic femininity? I mean, I've seen some horrendous behavior (I'd never even consider doing drunk, stoned or tripping) by women who were perfectly sober when they did it. Why is it that women get such a free pass for their behavior, and there's no collective guilt applied for the actions of a "few"...?

I do think we need to start spreading the idea of Toxic femininity, if only to show women/feminists just how unjust the whole concept is, and how open the concept is to abuse.

I would have to disagree here. It's always a bad idea to fight eejitry with eejitry. Plus, the narrative du jour in the media (opinion columnists and some radio commentators etc) is "toxic masculinity" as a go-to for everything from murder to jaywalking. The media have latched onto this from the US and it sells. It will go out of fashion sooner or later.

I think (hope) most people realise that it is a BS term and are able to spot the no-so subtle stoking of the gender wars fire when it gets trotted out.

RabbleRouser2k

Deleted User wrote: »

'toxic masculinity', meh. There are degrees of stupidity with both genders. God knows, I've done idiotic things in my life even after I reached my *cough* mature side of 30. I'm, thankfully, in my 40s now and only do idiotic things in countries where people don't speak english, and can't post to western Social media.

When are we going to hear about Toxic femininity? I mean, I've seen some horrendous behavior (I'd never even consider doing drunk, stoned or tripping) by women who were perfectly sober when they did it. Why is it that women get such a free pass for their behavior, and there's no collective guilt applied for the actions of a "few"...?

I do think we need to start spreading the idea of Toxic femininity, if only to show women/feminists just how unjust the whole concept is, and how open the concept is to abuse.

I had to laugh at the usual suspects going crazy because Kanye says he supports Trump, then Chance the rapper supporting him...
The usual sjw's were going crazy because a 'black man' had a different opinion to the sjw norms. Or maybe Kanye sees thru the dumb ideology.
Cue craziness and 'it was a bad day on twitter, a bad day in America'. As well as articles like 'the Kardashian's cannot control Kanye'... It reeks of slavery, and 'you better get your slave under control, Kim'...seriously ugly.

I always get annoyed with the claims of 'well, can't be reckless anymore, too old for that'...and to me it's like 'uh, no, we're given a little spark of madness, we have to hold onto that'. So do crazy crap. Be crazy, be happy-just never hurt anyone.

I remember there was all this talk, years ago, of 'ladette'-the term dissipated, but the actions remained. You'd see women drunk, hammered, and completely intoxicated-walking down the streets. Even girls were just overdoing it entirely. And even now, I've seen it-women who binge drink, are hungover the next day, and then throw on the sunglasses and drive to work.
Guys are less reckless in that respect, from my experiences. Our 'toxicity' is to us alone-the 'muppets' are an abhorrence, not a regular thing.

mzungu

I don't understand the appeal of Kanye West. Just do not get it.

RabbleRouser2k

mzungu wrote: »

I don't understand the appeal of Kanye West. Just do not get it.

There's your next topic title-'does Louise O'Neill understand the appeal of Kanye West and will it help Laura Whitmore to break America?'

Ulysses Gaze

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

There's your next topic title-'does Louise O'Neill understand the appeal of Kanye West and will it help Laura Whitmore to break America?'

Does Louise O'Neill think Kanye is a Woke Bae?

Does she watch the Kardashians?

Does she think they're appropriate role models for today's wimmins?

CatFromHue

mzungu wrote: »

I don't understand the appeal of Kanye West. Just do not get it.

As a person I don't care, equally I don't care about most musicians personalities.

As a musician he has made some brilliant songs, really really good stuff.

He does seem like a head the ball but equally All of the Lights and Jesus Walks are fantastic songs so I dunno

mzungu

mzungu wrote: »

I would have to disagree here. It's always a bad idea to fight eejitry with eejitry. Plus, the narrative du jour in the media (opinion columnists and some radio commentators etc) is "toxic masculinity" as a go-to for everything from murder to jaywalking. The media have latched onto this from the US and it sells. It will go out of fashion sooner or later.

I think (hope) most people realise that it is a BS term and are able to spot the no-so subtle stoking of the gender wars fire when it gets trotted out.

I dunno. The toxic masculinity thing kinda fits with the current craze about psychology "definitions". I know it's not one but a lot of people don't seem to.

The reason I am annoyed about it, is that we've recently had our review period at the local community center where we do the educational courses for minorities in our area. We've been having a lot of trouble recently with break-ins, theft, aggressive behavior etc. Most of the minorities involved in the trouble are late-teens and early 20s from the Traveller community or some migrants, and of both genders, although the more aggressive behavior is coming from the female students. So.. we had a series of meetings from the Gardai, our wonderful government rep, a few 'concerned' parents from the neighborhood (with the appropriate amount of influence/money), and the reps from our local funding committee. Oh, and our local expert shrink on teen psychology. Yup. Awesome. Just fills my evenings with daffodils.

The vast majority of those involved in any official capacity are female. The few males present were the parents or teachers. And the term "toxic masculinity" was bandied around like it was a certain factor in the students behavior. Didn't matter that the majority of the trouble was coming from the females, most of the meeting was taken up talking about the negative behavior (all relatively minor) of the male students.

Naturally, being the annoying, experienced and well-traveled person that I am, I objected pointing out the facts, and was politely ignored by most involved. Although our lovely shrink (also female) was very happy to point out the qualifications she had in passing judgement over men she'd never actually met, but quite content to glorify in the praise from the other females in the room. Edit: I should add... that the result of the meeting was the withdrawal of services (evening time access removed, and they would be monitored at all times) for most of the male students, and nothing beyond a stern talking to the female students. Apparently, the female students were being influenced by the males. Right. There's logic in there somewhere if you search hard enough. And this was passed easily by the committee. Breathe. daffodils. Breathe.

Look. I get it. Matching Feminists with the myriad of sexist terms they've created over the last decade is foolish, but some of these terms are being accepted by more than social media fiends. There were a number of the women at the meeting who were highly-educated and I'd thought previously as being very intelligent people. And before anyone suggest this was a focus on Travellers... it wasn't. We have adult literacy classes for all social backgrounds, and have received trouble from a variety of backgrounds.

Some of these terms need to be addressed or they will be accepted into common language without any opposition. And as my favorite expression states:

"Language structures consciousness". We are deeply influenced by the words/phrases we use (or hear) and what we, ourselves, believe them to mean.