Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Now that is true. This is what I’ve been saying all along and I’m delighted you agree. This discussion is happening and things are changing. LON and her peers are moving that conversation forward and helping shape it by pushing their issues. It’s a shame there aren’t more men’s groups out there pushing their issues like the rape law re men being the one not ones who can rape.

Consent classes will happen because government agencies tend to follow the feminist mandate. Our Academia/universities are following the same way as the US where we're seeing quotas to put in more women than men in the name of "equality".

LON is just an expression of this movement. An extreme expression by Irish standards. If we were in the US, her equivalent would be one of those foaming in the mouth man haters who live in a trailer park.

This bugs me. You’re able to acknowledge that the feminists are pushing the issues and pushing governments to implement their lobbying objectives. But when I say they’re winning posters can’t seem to figure out what I’m talking about.

I don’t have to like gender quotas to credit them with successfully lobbying to get their objectives implemented.

Deleted User wrote: »

That law is a national disgrace and would be ripe for campaigning, awareness raising and eventually legal change. But we’ll have to wait for LON and her peers to bring it up because they’re aren’t any men’s issues campaigners who have a platform and readership of LON.

She’s such an eejit with her awareness raising and social influence and her multimedia platforms. I wish there were some men’s issues campaigners who were as big an eejit as her.

The law isn't a criminal disgrace. Most of it anyway. Sentencing is a disgrace, and that's an issue across the board. Although I also do find the attitude to sentencing for false rape claims to be a disgrace.....

And you could drop the sarcasm... you're not very good at it. (Neither am I, btw.)

Oh grand. I think the rape law is a disgrace. You disagree. I think the fact that only a man can rape and a man can’t be raped by a woman, is a disgrace. It’s a terrible law and should be changed in my opinion.

It undermines the whole concept of consent if only men can commit a crime related to consent.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pretty sweeping statement there, considering you know very little about the posters here. Many of us could actually be active in the area of Men's rights, or have genuine interest in rape laws. After all, they're issues that could affect us directly.. But then that's not the point of your statement. It's continuing the dismissal of male opinions on subjects that feminists feel they should have total say over.

So who here is campaigning on men’s rights issue?

That question is not directed at you personally. Anybody here who campaigns on men’s rights issues feel free to pipe up.

Keep in mind that LON is routinely assumed to not care at all about feminist issues in he developing world simply because she doesn’t actively tweet about it.

I’ll be holding the guys on this thread to the same standard. If you don’t actively campaign for men’s rights then you simply don’t care and have no interest.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's cherry picking depending on the current argument. That's all.

It’s really not.

It makes sense to lump a particular feminist in with other feminists she agrees with.

It doesn’t make sense to lump a feminist in with other feminists she disagrees with.

Feminists are like any other group. They have commonalities and differences. It’s not a case of them either agreeing on every point or disagreeing on every point. There’s a middle ground.

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

So who here is campaigning on men’s rights issue?

That question is not directed at you personally. Anybody here who campaigns on men’s rights issues feel free to pipe up.

Keep in mind that LON is routinely assumed to not care at all about feminist issues in he developing world simply because she doesn’t actively tweet about it.

I’ll be holding the guys on this thread to the same standard. If you don’t actively campaign for men’s rights then you simply don’t care and have no interest.

Em, surely be the same standard would simply be tweeting about it or posting here. After all, all LON does is flap her gums and/or write click bait nonsense articles. LON is making a career and money out of the tripe she writes, hardly a campaigner of womens rights.

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

Em, surely be the same standard would simply be tweeting about it or posting here. After all, all LON does is flap her gums and/or write click bait nonsense articles. LON is making a career and money out of the tripe she writes, hardly a campaigner of womens rights.

Except anytime someone comes onto this thread and says “why is everyone getting so worked up, she’s just a columnist” they’re shouted down and told she’s super influential etc.

Which is it?

LLMMLL

In fact you yourself seem to think she has influence:

givyjoe wrote:

Girls, and boys, are influenced by all sorts of folks and things, lots of which are even of lower profile than LON. If you really think she hasn't influenced anyone with her views, you're either being extremely naive or willfully ignorant. Stating otherwise, is literally sticking your head in the sand.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

The guys on this thread don’t care about ... ...All they want to do is nitpick LON.

This is a thread about LON, isn't it?

JohnMc1

Deleted User wrote: »

That would be the MGTOW guys then (although MGTOW isn't a mens rights movement as such)? Or the more extreme Mens rights movements that came from bad marriage divorces, and child settlement cases?

MGTOW isn't a Women hating group. Its " The System is against us so we're not going to participate in it."

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

This bugs me. You’re able to acknowledge that the feminists are pushing the issues and pushing governments to implement their lobbying objectives. But when I say they’re winning posters can’t seem to figure out what I’m talking about.

Because there's a difference. You attribute the forward movement to people like LON, who is a feminist. The change in Government and public perception is being driven by the feminist movement overall, and also normal social change. Now, LON just happens to be a feminist that makes sweeping statements about men in a very negative manner. Which is why I wouldn't be so quick paint her as a positive influence on the situation.

You previously said LON was winning attention, and now you're saying Feminism is winning attention for the issues. To me, they are different forces.

I don’t have to like gender quotas to credit them with successfully lobbying to get their objectives implemented.

Have they? The quotas are still relatively new to the various systems, and we've yet to see the effects. We could just as easily see a diminished form of womens status in workplaces due to negative reactions and the demand for numbers rather than genuine skill/knowledge.

Either way, IMO the quotas are sexist, and a genuine movement away from actual equality.

Oh grand. I think the rape law is a disgrace. You disagree. I think the fact that only a man can rape and a man can’t be raped by a woman, is a disgrace. It’s a terrible law and should be changed in my opinion.

It undermines the whole concept of consent if only men can commit a crime related to consent.

Different thread. Not getting into this one.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

So who here is campaigning on men’s rights issue?

That question is not directed at you personally. Anybody here who campaigns on men’s rights issues feel free to pipe up.

There's a thread on the Gentlemen's forum, and many of the posters here, contribute there.

Keep in mind that LON is routinely assumed to not care at all about feminist issues in he developing world simply because she doesn’t actively tweet about it.

Dunno. My only concern about LON is when she makes sweeping negative remarks about the male gender.

I’ll be holding the guys on this thread to the same standard. If you don’t actively campaign for men’s rights then you simply don’t care and have no interest.

Your holding us up to whatever standards means very little considering the type of posting you've contributed so far to this thread. You've shown strong feminist attitudes, along with the same kind of statements that LON makes about men. So... your holding us up to some kind of standard means squat.

JohnMc1 wrote: »

MGTOW isn't a Women hating group. Its " The System is against us so we're not going to participate in it."

Their forums spend the whole time talking/complaining about women.. so they're hardly going their own way. In any case, I'm not an admirer of their 'creed'.

TheAnalyst_

JohnMc1 wrote: »

MGTOW isn't a Women hating group. Its " The System is against us so we're not going to participate in it."

It absolutely is.

LLMMLL

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a thread on the Gentlemen's forum, and many of the posters here, contribute there.

They really don't. The highest anti-feminist contributors on this thread such as:

RabbleRouser2k,
givyjoe,
Omackeral,
freshpopcorn,
yourself,
CQD,
tipp_gunner,
OutlawPete,
Dakota Brave Carrot

NONE of you make any significant contribution to the Men's rights thread.

The only ones who post there with any frequency are Wibbs, Zulu and py2006.

So by the standards you guys apply to LON lets call a spade a spade. None of ye give a toss about Men's Rights, unless you can use it to bash feminists.

Your holding us up to whatever standards means very little considering the type of posting you've contributed so far to this thread. You've shown strong feminist attitudes, along with the same kind of statements that LON makes about men. So... your holding us up to some kind of standard means squat.

I'm just using your own standards. Not you specifically, I don't think you peddle the nonsense that LON doesnt care about women in third world countries, or shes a racist because she doesn't tweet about issues in those countries. But its a very common stick to beat her with on this thread. And by these guys standards none of them care about men's rights at all.

Omackeral

LLMMLL wrote: »

They really don't. The highest anti-feminist contributors on this thread such as:

Omackeral

Name-checked, what an honour! I abhor whatever the hell passes for ''feminism'' in Ireland today. Women of today largely have it the same as men do, and thank fcuk for that. Feminism in 2018 is a poisonous, vitriolic word and brings nothing but derision and division. What rights have ladies not got today that men do? I've found myself asking that before but never really get much back on it. 1st wave feminists were genuine heroes/heroines, to be held in high regard. Nowadays, anybody who overtly identifies as a feminist in their Twitter or FB bio is generally a pain in the hole.

I voted YES to Repeal because I believe that the 8th was one of the very last legal barricades left that held our sisters, mothers, daughters in contempt and shame. Staunchly advocated it and wore a badge for same and highlighted it quite often across various media, both verbal and literary. Delighted to see it pass. I'm for equality. That's it.

Aaahhh...

I'm only taking the p1ss..

Outlaw Pete

LLMMLL wrote: »

I’ll be holding the guys on this thread to the same standard. If you don’t actively campaign for men’s rights then you simply don’t care and have no interest.

You're comparing apples and melons.

People challenging the vast majority of LON's nonsense about patriarchal oppression and rape culture don't have to be campaigning for men's rights to give their complaints credence as they have sweet FA to do with one another. They are separate issues.

LLMMLL

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

You're comparing apples and melons.

People challenging the vast majority of LON's nonsense about patriarchal oppression and rape culture don't have to be campaigning for men's rights to give their complaints credence as they have sweet FA to do with one another. They are separate issues.

I’m not saying you have to care about or get involved in men’s rights. I’m saying you don’t care about and are not involved in men’s rights, contrary to what another poster says about you guys also contributing to the men’s rights thread.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I’m not saying you have to care about or get involved in men’s rights. I’m saying you don’t care about and are not involved in men’s rights, contrary to what another poster says about you guys also contributing to the men’s rights thread.

And why is your judgement of us (and it is a judgement) of value?

I do find it ironic that you're the only poster holding up other boards users to their own personal standard.... :rolleyes:

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And why is your judgement of us (and it is a judgement) of value?

I do find it ironic that you're the only poster holding up other boards users to their own personal standard.... :rolleyes:

What’s the issue with holding people to their own standards?

It’s not my judgement it’s their own. If LON not tweeting about an issue means she doesn’t care (or is a racist as has been suggested) then surely the fact that pretty much none of the main contributors to this thread comment on men’s rights means they just don’t care.

Outlaw Pete

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah. LON is having these discussions on national newspapers, Tv, radio, books and stage productions. Of course she has social influence. Posting on boards is good, but it’s not the same as LON’s platform. She’s in a position to really impact the public debate and contribute her ideas to it. Posting on boards is good but it’s hardly comparable to LON’s platform.

LOL. You're saying Louise's platform is greater than posting on Boards? Yeah, who said it wasn't? :P

Look, LON and the feminists get things done. They lobby successfully you acknowledged that in your post above. Arguing against them is grand but it isn’t the same as actually agitating FOR changes you want.

Of course it's not the same, who is saying it is? You appear to be arguing with yourself.

As I said above the biggest problem and the first issue id like to see addressed is the law that only recognises men as capable of rape.

Seems to be something which you feel strong about, so what have you done thus far about it?

But instead we’re discussing consent and how to revamp the sex education. That’s directly because of the work LON and her peers are doing to push for consent education.

Yes, but again, don't see anyone suggesting that isn't the case. You seem to think if people disagree with her then that somehow means they think she isn't having the effect she desires to, but that's far from the case. Unfortunately she may very well have an negative effect, and along with the NWCI, influence some legislative change in the area of consent. Is that what you're looking for someone to concede? Well, there you go. Doesn't make her right though.

The feminists picked that battlefield, and they are achieving their victory. It’s impossible to deny. It’s actually happening right now.

Again with this battlefield nonsense. You might not realise it but you are actually making a case for LON just using consent as a way of getting at men when you speak this way.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

What’s the issue with holding people to their own standards?

Holding people to their own standards>?

Hmm... well, I'm not describing the female or male genders in any sweeping negative remarks or encouraging negative stereotypes. Which tends to be many of the objections against LON's remarks.

If your judgment call on posters here was really about holding people to their own standards (and not yours), then it would be related to what they've been posting about or arguing against. And you would need to pay attention to what they write.

The regular posters to this thread in criticism of LON are consistent in what they write about feminism or men's rights. For myself, I point out the hypocrisy involved in Domestic Abuse where men are automatically assumed to be aggressor in spite of evidence otherwise... just as I regularly take up against those who claim to pursue equality, but only campaign for women's rights. I also tend to resist this encouragement for the sainthood of victimhood which many feminists seem to want for all women.

It’s not my judgement it’s their own. If LON not tweeting about an issue means she doesn’t care (or is a racist as has been suggested) then surely the fact that pretty much none of the main contributors to this thread comment on men’s rights means they just don’t care.

huh? I've read that paragraph four times, and I still can't figure out what you're trying to say.... but from what I can understand.... you do realise that only some posters have commented on what LON doesn't talk about vs what she tends to focus on. I haven't. Neither have a number of other 'main' contributors... I guess it's just easier to lump us all together irrespective of what we've actually posted to the thread.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Holding people to their own standards>?

Hmm... well, I'm not describing the female or male genders in any sweeping negative remarks or encouraging negative stereotypes. Which tends to be many of the objections against LON's remarks.

If your judgment call on posters here was really about holding people to their own standards (and not yours), then it would be related to what they've been posting about or arguing against. And you would need to pay attention to what they write.

The regular posters to this thread in criticism of LON are consistent in what they write about feminism or men's rights. For myself, I point out the hypocrisy involved in Domestic Abuse where men are automatically assumed to be aggressor in spite of evidence otherwise... just as I regularly take up against those who claim to pursue equality, but only campaign for women's rights. I also tend to resist this encouragement for the sainthood of victimhood which many feminists seem to want for all women.



huh? I've read that paragraph four times, and I still can't figure out what you're trying to say.... but from what I can understand.... you do realise that only some posters have commented on what LON doesn't talk about vs what she tends to focus on. I haven't. Neither have a number of other 'main' contributors... I guess it's just easier to lump us all together irrespective of what we've actually posted to the thread.

I actually stated that I wasn’t including you as one of those who had levelled that particular critique at LON. However nearly every one of the main posters I listed earlier have either criticised her for this or thanked a post that criticised her for it. It seems a popular idea on this thread. I’m not sure you’ve any insight into the other main posters at all. You earlier claimed they were active in the men’s rights thread which couldn’t be further from the truth.

So I gather then that you think the criticism of LON that she doesn’t tweet regularly about issues in the developing world meaning she doesn’t care about these issues is unfounded?

Yeah_Right

LLMMLL wrote: »

They really don't. The highest anti-feminist contributors on this thread such as:

RabbleRouser2k,
givyjoe,
Omackeral,
freshpopcorn,
yourself,
CQD,
tipp_gunner,
OutlawPete,
Dakota Brave Carrot

NONE of you make any significant contribution to the Men's rights thread.

The only ones who post there with any frequency are Wibbs, Zulu and py2006.

So by the standards you guys apply to LON lets call a spade a spade. None of ye give a toss about Men's Rights, unless you can use it to bash feminists.

Damn. I didn't make the list of anti-feminists. Could you ask LON what I need to do or say to make the list?

El_Duderino 09

LLMMLL wrote: »

So who here is campaigning on men’s rights issue?

That question is not directed at you personally. Anybody here who campaigns on men’s rights issues feel free to pipe up.

Keep in mind that LON is routinely assumed to not care at all about feminist issues in he developing world simply because she doesn’t actively tweet about it.

I’ll be holding the guys on this thread to the same standard. If you don’t actively campaign for men’s rights then you simply don’t care and have no interest.

In the last year I’ve attended a fundraising event for men’s charity Mankind and an event promoting men’s health.

That’s not a lot but I expect it’s 2 more men’s issues events than the vast majority of the anti feminism posters have attended.

Mr. Incognito

This thread is a cluster ****.

It's literally people refuting points and LLMMLL then making a series of stawman or quoting out of context fallacies which are then refuted before she moves onto the next one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quoting_out_of_context

So you believe that because LON is wearing red socks that she's in favour of abortion.

*Rabble about abortion*.

Oh, I see you used Rabble there.

So you mean that because rabble is a form of caveman rock you think LON is a caveman hating troll.


And people fall for this stupidity.

Look. It's clearly just a self absorbed twit leading you around by the nose to talk about herself.

Can you all just go away and let this thread die.

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

They really don't. The highest anti-feminist contributors on this thread such as:

RabbleRouser2k,
givyjoe,
Omackeral,
freshpopcorn,
yourself,
CQD,
tipp_gunner,
OutlawPete,
Dakota Brave Carrot

NONE of you make any significant contribution to the Men's rights thread.

The only ones who post there with any frequency are Wibbs, Zulu and py2006.

So by the standards you guys apply to LON lets call a spade a spade. None of ye give a toss about Men's Rights, unless you can use it to bash feminists.





I'm just using your own standards. Not you specifically, I don't think you peddle the nonsense that LON doesnt care about women in third world countries, or shes a racist because she doesn't tweet about issues in those countries. But its a very common stick to beat her with on this thread. And by these guys standards none of them care about men's rights at all.

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-feminist. I'm anti-bull****/anti-hypocrisy and anti-double standards. I'm all for equality, unlike your super hero LON.

I think this emoji sums up your posts in the last day... :eek:

Mr. Incognito

givyjoe wrote: »

Just to be clear, I'm not anti-feminist. I'm anti-bull****/anti-hypocrisy and anti-double standards. I'm all for equality, unlike your super hero LON.

I think this emoji sums up your posts in the last day... :eek:

Another Fish Hooked.

razorblunt

The play is shíte by the way.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I actually stated that I wasn’t including you as one of those who had levelled that particular critique at LON.

But I still get to be included on your 'list'. Lovely.

However nearly every one of the main posters I listed earlier have either criticised her for this or thanked a post that criticised her for it. It seems a popular idea on this thread. I’m not sure you’ve any insight into the other main posters at all. You earlier claimed they were active in the men’s rights thread which couldn’t be further from the truth.

Ahh yes, because in 16 years on boards, I've learned nothing about my fellow posters. Right. In any case, I love how you skimmed a thread with 119 pages (I'm not even sure you read that much), and have somehow decided how much people have contributed... but then again, it comes down to you passing judgement over other posters and their activities. Very Orwellian of you.

So I gather then that you think the criticism of LON that she doesn’t tweet regularly about issues in the developing world meaning she doesn’t care about these issues is unfounded?

I think she chooses what she wants to write about, and follows her own moral code regarding whats worth the effort. Some stories stand out in her mind, others don't. I can see what the other posters are referring to but I don't see it as being rare among online 'journalists'. They're still interested in drama and clickbait ideas.

Mr. Incognito

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Can you all just go away and let this thread die.

You could just ignore it, couldn't you? Gosh. What a novel idea. Obviously, many posters enjoy the ongoing 'discussion', and you want to piss on their enjoyment.

Outlaw Pete

LLMMLL wrote: »

So I gather then that you think the criticism of LON that she doesn’t tweet regularly about issues in the developing world meaning she doesn’t care about these issues is unfounded?

The flaw in your logic is that the 'main posters' on this thread who have taken issue with either LON's contention that we live in a rape culture, or that there's an oppressive patriarchy, that men can't be sexist against women, or as affected by revenge porn etc etc, DON'T also have to have spoken up about men's rights issues in order for their criticisms of her on this thread to be valid, but yet that is what you are suggesting over and over again. You claim you're not, but you are. You're suggesting there is hypocrisy at play but if you tried to flesh it out you'd see that there is no basis for it.

razorblunt wrote: »

The play is shíte by the way.

Nonsense. Explain this review so


https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1007911296753393664