Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

The Crowman

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Missed Louise being forced to tweet that apology. Must've stung

What was that?

Yer Da sells Avon

The Crowman wrote: »

What was that?

Along with hundreds of other people, she retweeted an article that accused a Hot Press journalist of carrying out a serious physical and sexual attack during an interview with a woman who worked as a prostitute. She reported the attack, but sadly passed away earlier this year. After her death, one of her friends (with her family's blessing) made the accusations public, including graphic images of her injuries. I'm not sure if I can share the offending article here, but it's still online and you should find it with a bit of Googling. Her name was Laura Lee.

I'm not sure I would have apologised, but then, unlike Louise O'Neill, I have nothing to lose. Anyway, her apology was laudably pathetic and didn't stay up for a second longer than was legally required.

Sunny Disposition

The play of Asking for It is absolutely amazing. Says Louise.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/louise-o39neill-i-could-hear-someone-quietly-sobbing-and-jolted-when-i-realised-it-was-me-472220.html?&session=NH7gLoTdQIue/G7CZpnRsG0LPCK4OUxfBj9M5IHfoBU=

Will I Am Not

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The play of Asking for It is absolutely amazing. Says Louise.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/louise-o39neill-i-could-hear-someone-quietly-sobbing-and-jolted-when-i-realised-it-was-me-472220.html?&session=NH7gLoTdQIue/G7CZpnRsG0LPCK4OUxfBj9M5IHfoBU=

I genuinely lolled at the headline :pac:

Sunny Disposition

What next, will Seamus Harnedy have an article on Monday week about his superb performance in the Munster final?Joe Schmidt might do something for them about his tactical genius in seeing off Australia?

Fr_Dougal

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The play of Asking for It is absolutely amazing. Says Louise.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/columnists/louise-oneill/louise-o39neill-i-could-hear-someone-quietly-sobbing-and-jolted-when-i-realised-it-was-me-472220.html?&session=NH7gLoTdQIue/G7CZpnRsG0LPCK4OUxfBj9M5IHfoBU=

The Crowman

Ironically this is what comes to mind. :pac:

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, if we are the judge by the feminist movement, then there are heaps of things that men could be campaigning for.
...
Alas, I'm not really sure men pushing hard (like feminists have) for equality, or male rights, would actually improve our society much. I suspect it would create too many divisions, and friction. An encouragement of the us Vs them mentality that many feminists seem to have but spreading it wide within our society.

I agree with pretty much everything you outlined in the post above. But then you fall at the last hurdle of actually doing something about it.

Don't worry about causing division in society or any of that guff. You view it like that because you're mired in this gender wars stuff. Most people don't even know about the gender wars and just get on with their day and accept the status quo re fathers rights and accept changes like gender quotas.

It's only people like yourself who think campaigning for what you want is a bad thing, causing divisions because most people don't even know it's happening let alone feel any division.

Don't bother looking to the feminists for approval. If you want change do something about it or at least encourage others who do it. Or at a very bare minimum, don't discourage others from doing it. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Omackeral

Open question so feel free to answer. What tangible changes do feminists want for women in 2018 Ireland that aren’t already possible?

:pac::pac::pac:

Sheeps

Omackeral wrote: »

Open question so feel free to answer. What tangible changes do feminists want for women in 2018 Ireland that aren’t already possible?

To be a biological man.

El_Duderino 09

Omackeral wrote: »

Open question so feel free to answer. What tangible changes do feminists want for women in 2018 Ireland that aren’t already possible?

I suppose you could look at what they’re doing for the answe to that.

For example there was a campaign to address street harassment last year. So I’d say reducing street harassment would be one tangible change.

The Crowman

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Along with hundreds of other people, she retweeted an article that accused a Hot Press journalist of carrying out a serious physical and sexual attack during an interview with a woman who worked as a prostitute. She reported the attack, but sadly passed away earlier this year. After her death, one of her friends (with her family's blessing) made the accusations public, including graphic images of her injuries. I'm not sure if I can share the offending article here, but it's still online and you should find it with a bit of Googling. Her name was Laura Lee.

I'm not sure I would have apologised, but then, unlike Louise O'Neill, I have nothing to lose. Anyway, her apology was laudably pathetic and didn't stay up for a second longer than was legally required.

Anyone grab a screenshot of her tweet?

El_Duderino 09

Omackeral wrote: »

Open question so feel free to answer. What tangible changes do feminists want for women in 2018 Ireland that aren’t already possible?

Another answer would probably be to look at what LON is doing right now. She’s written a book about consent, and it’s now showing in theatre. So I’d say discussion about consent is an example of a change she specifically is looking for.

Omackeral

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I suppose you could look at what they’re doing for the answe to that.

For example there was a campaign to address street harassment last year. So I’d say reducing street harassment would be one tangible change.

Where was this?

Omackeral

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Another answer would probably be to look at what LON is doing right now. She’s written a book about consent, and it’s now showing in theatre. So I’d say discussion about consent is an example of a change she specifically is looking for.

Consent doesn’t just concern women. Two way street.

El_Duderino 09

Omackeral wrote: »

Where was this?

It was in Dublin. It caused enough of a stir at the time in the gentlemen’s forum.

I googled it and here’s an article from the time. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.her.ie/amp/life/new-anti-street-harassment-campaign-dublin-important-364092

I wasn’t in Dublin at the time so I can’t say how it worked one way or the other.

But it should answer your question and illustrate something that the feminists are trying to change

El_Duderino 09

Omackeral wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Another answer would probably be to look at what LON is doing right now. She’s written a book about consent, and it’s now showing in theatre. So I’d say discussion about consent is an example of a change she specifically is looking for.

Consent doesn’t just concern women. Two way street.

Agreed. That would probably be part of the discussions.

Are you happy you got an answer to your question?

From what I keep hearing from Lou, can it really be called her first "adult" novel?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Err... It did. Same post. The one where I posted the link.

No, you say you didn’t notice any campaigns THEN start talking about general reasons gay people have been accepted. The “no grand campaigns ...” line comes after that. It’s clearly related to the general reasons gay people have been accepted, not your earlier observation that you didn’t see any campaigns.

You did? I must have missed that part. Which post number?

I don’t see post numbers on mobile but it was on the 21st at 13:43. You quoted it in your post at 14:21 so pretty sure you saw it.

Ignoring what exactly? El_D was the only poster to give any actual reference to any campaigns by Gay rights campaigners. You simply said that the campaigns were important and nothing really changed until much later.

I referenced GLEN and ME, pride marches, decriminalisation, discrimination cases, and gay people standing up to homophobia in their everyday lives (not simply living their openly).

Never clarify? I made a pretty clear statement. That I couldn't recall any major promotional campaign for Gay rights until i left in my 30s. I added later after discussion with you, that I assume that there were such campaigns but I never saw any of them.

Sorry I don’t buy it. If the simple fact that you never witnessed a campaign in the early noughties was all you were trying to say then you could have clarified it ten pages ago. You didn’t. You argued against my examples of campaigning changing minds and reiterated multiple times that attitudes were changed by gay people living their lives:

. Gay pride parades or events simply mark them as being different, and difference is a major encouragement to deal harshly with anyone...

Now, you're hellbent on these campaigns, so I'll expand and say that everything has an influence and pushed towards equality. However, you seem to be rather selective about your own posts. In fact, it's almost as if the sequence of your posts don't matter once they're added... although it does seem to matter when it comes to mine.

Right so campaigning has an influence which is the point I was making all along.

Feminists can’t assume “natural change” will occur and need to campaign for what they believe in.

LLMMLL

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, what I don't get is why he would have anything to do with Louise after she retweeted the article

Is there no YouTube video of Christina Hoff Summers explaining it?

AllForIt

Omackeral wrote: »

Open question so feel free to answer. What tangible changes do feminists want for women in 2018 Ireland that aren’t already possible?

Equal pay no matter what. No matter what meaning even if they are not doing the same job. E.g. supermarket checkout personal getting the same pay as the ppl operating machinery in the warehouse. I live beside a supermarket centre and in the late evenings every day I see all the lorries delivering the stock and I have never seen a woman driving the forklifts, ever. I think a lot of this is about plain ole greed.

No reason at all women can't operate machinery if they want a higher wage. Or maybe they don't have the balls for it.

Outlaw Pete

LLMMLL wrote: »

Is there no YouTube video of Christina Hoff Summers explaining it?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

No, you say you didn’t notice any campaigns THEN start talking about general reasons gay people have been accepted. The “no grand campaigns ...” line comes after that. It’s clearly related to the general reasons gay people have been accepted, not your earlier observation that you didn’t see any campaigns.

Good God, your objections are tedious. You're seeking to take apart where I chose where to place sentences within a three paragraph post.

I don’t see post numbers on mobile but it was on the 21st at 13:43. You quoted it in your post at 14:21 so pretty sure you saw it.

You only ever post on mobile. Right.

I referenced GLEN and ME, pride marches, decriminalisation, discrimination cases, and gay people standing up to homophobia in their everyday lives (not simply living their openly).

You did indeed. After the fact. After dozens of other posts.. You do realise the number of posts which have been exchanged before you even mentioned any of the above examples?

Sorry I don’t buy it. If the simple fact that you never witnessed a campaign in the early noughties was all you were trying to say then you could have clarified it ten pages ago. You didn’t. You argued against my examples of campaigning changing minds and reiterated multiple times that attitudes were changed by gay people living their lives:

I did say it in the beginning. You objected to it. Hence, this merry-go-round of arguing. And I didn't object to your examples (which appeared much later in the thread than you seem to think), but I objected to your focus on campaigns and the SSM as being the defining moment of the Gay rights movement... BUT... you're being rather selective about what to argue so...

You're right. You're right. You're right. Ok? Can we move on to something else now?

Feminists can’t assume “natural change” will occur and need to campaign for what they believe in.

Two incredibly different situations, light-years apart and the fact that you would link Feminism with Gay rights is just.... Forget it. No point discussing this with you. Stick to feminism.

razorblunt

She watches Love Island (according to her twitter), I wonder will she be commenting on the girls "top shagger-esque" chat last night?

Outlaw Pete

The Crowman wrote: »

Anyone grab a screenshot of her tweet?

...

Don't Chute!

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I genuinely lolled at the headline :pac:

https://youtu.be/ZltVL-wn4Xk
Lou Lou crying whilst the money rolls in!

Rechuchote

AllForIt wrote: »

I have never seen a woman driving the forklifts, ever. I think a lot of this is about plain ole greed.

Looked up a salaries site and forklift drivers apparently average around €28k a year, checkout staff around €23k. Doesn't sound like plain ol' greed to me. Possibly plain ol' ambition, but scarcely that for €3k extra.

I'm out of the loop on this - what's the training for a forklift driver? Is it an easy job to get?

Boom_Bap

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

...

Who asked her to tweet the apology is what I want to know.

Rechuchote

Rechuchote wrote: »

Looked up a salaries site and forklift drivers apparently average around €28k a year, checkout staff around €23k. Doesn't sound like plain ol' greed to me. Possibly plain ol' ambition, but scarcely that for €3k extra.

I'm out of the loop on this - what's the training for a forklift driver? Is it an easy job to get?

I suspect difficulty (of the job itself), and being rather physical plays a large part. Being checkout staff or floor staff rarely requires any heavy physical work, is unlikely to push you out into the normal Irish weather, and allows you to 'chat' easily with other staff/customers. I'm also guessing that the hours required are better regulated and scheduled whereas warehousing often requires extra shifts.

I do wonder what they're going to do now that most stores have gone automatic checkouts. Where are they going to end up working instead?