Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

PlaneSpeeking

Nokotan wrote: »

People's lives are too easy if this is the sort thing they care about.

Remember the off duty policeman in the UK who complained to Sainsbury's that the "feminine hygiene" aisle was sexist ?

Wouldn't you have loved to be on your last day there and ask him "if sir points out the male tampons then we'll change the sign!"

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Any links to that documentary? Specifically to her saying all men are rapists? That’d be great. Cheers.

That’s really not how education works. We don’t assume everyone will be knock down on the toad, but we do teach people how to cross the road safely. We don’t assume everyone is obese when we promote healthy eating. I think I it would take a particular level of preciousness to take the approach you’ve taken.

Even in safeguarding situations and training. It doesn’t assume everyone is a deviant but it teaches how to stay safe.

When it comes to changing culture it always makes sense to educate. That stands whether you agree or not with the assumptions.

I got deju-vu writing my previous post. We've had this exact same argument. You can trawl through the documentary yourself, I recall it being a voice over at one stage: https://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/asking-for-it-reality-bites-30004323/10644044/

El_Duderino 09

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s absolute guff. You said I was wrong about safeguarding and I’ve asked you to explain and you’re copping out.

I asked you what you’re saying but I suppose discussion isn’t the point of this thread. It’s about having a pop at LON. I don’t suppose you expected follow up questions.

Fly away PS. But if you ever figure out why you disagreed with what I said about safeguarding, be sure to let us know.

Asked and answered - but once again in case it didn't take hold:

Safeguarding is all well and good but when genuinely good advice is given (I gave examples) there is pushback. Not every man needs to be told not to rape, 90+% already know this.

Yet women seem to need to be told that accepting a drink from a stranger is unwise if you don't see it poured, it could contain a roofie, perhaps a small chance but one not worth taking.

Meeting someone and 15 minutes later going home with them ? Dumb idea.

Enthusiastically consenting to sex and changing one's mind the next day ? Not rape.

If I'm a public figure and I say the above in an open forum, my job is gone in a week thanks to the Twitterverse - yet it is sensible advice.

Now I have no desire to risk a ban for you so enjoy the ignore club.

If pushback is the threshold, then you’d sh1t if you say the pushback against the consent discussions. I didn’t assume safeguarding is the answer to all the problems, but you’ve already clearly missed the point of what I actually said.

So one of these posts you’ll maybe address which part of my post was wrong in your opinion. It was a short 2 clause sentence which says safeguarding doesn’t assume everyone is a deviant, it helps people stay safe.

And do what you want if you can’t be civil then don’t respond. But FYI this must be the third time you’ve put me on the ignore list.

If you want to be really insulated from ideas that don’t map on to you and posters who don’t thank your every utterance, then do yourself a favour and actually do it this time.

El_Duderino 09

Repeat post

El_Duderino 09

Repeat post

JJJJNR

py2006 wrote: »

There is a certain posting style by an poster here that has caused issue and annoyance before. Whether genuine or not, there are only so many times you can run in the one circle.

Tell that to Usain Bolt.

givyjoe

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

If pushback is the threshold, then you’d sh1t if you say the pushback against the consent discussions. I didn’t assume safeguarding is the answer to all the problems, but you’ve already clearly missed the point of what I actually said.

So one of these posts you’ll maybe address which part of my post was wrong in your opinion. It was a short 2 clause sentence which says safeguarding doesn’t assume everyone is a deviant, it helps people stay safe.

And do what you want if you can’t be civil then don’t respond. But FYI this must be the third time you’ve put me on the ignore list.

If you want to be really insulated from ideas that don’t map on to you and posters who don’t thank your every utterance, then do yourself a favour and actually do it this time.

Treble post... whats the craic with your phone?!

givyjoe

Deleted User wrote: »

I got deju-vu writing my previous post. We've had this exact same argument. You can trawl through the documentary yourself, I recall it being a voice over at one stage: https://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/asking-for-it-reality-bites-30004323/10644044/

We seriously need a sticky for the pile of sh1te that LON has spouted so we can stop, periodically, being asked the same question (by the same people) over and over.

El_Duderino 09

givyjoe wrote: »

Treble post... whats the craic with your phone?!

Apologies. The boards app is temperamental.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

I got deju-vu writing my previous post. We've had this exact same argument. You can trawl through the documentary yourself, I recall it being a voice over at one stage: https://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/asking-for-it-reality-bites-30004323/10644044/

And if I ho through the documentary I’ll find her saying hat all men are rapists? I’m sure you’re a LON aficionado so I’ll take you’re word for it if you say that’s in there.

Is it in there?

El_Duderino 09

Jaylen Damp Kindergarten wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The reason I ask is that I've never seen someone so defensive of a public figure they have never met.

See, as a public figure, you leave yourself open for criticism and also praise of which are healthy to express in this complex country of ours.[/quote]

Express what you like. But don’t be upset if you’re asked what you mean. E.g above when PS threw their toys out of the pram when asked what they actually meant.

The strange part is that you quoted me posting about something that didn’t relate to LON at all. I said safeguarding doesn’t assume everyone is a deviant, it helps people stay safe.

Likewise education on consent doesn’t assume all men are rapists. It’s a fairly unconventional point I was making TBH.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I got deju-vu writing my previous post. We've had this exact same argument. You can trawl through the documentary yourself, I recall it being a voice over at one stage: https://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/asking-for-it-reality-bites-30004323/10644044/

lol

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=107259645&postcount=4761

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

And if I ho through the documentary I’ll find her saying hat all men are rapists? I’m sure you’re a LON aficionado so I’ll take you’re word for it if you say that’s in there.

Is it in there?

I'm 95% sure you will find the phrase "We need to teach our young men (or boys) not to rape"

CR 7

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

But I assume that:

It's4Women.ie
Woman magazine
Woman's Own magazine
etc etc

will soon be changed too ?

#AsIf

Elle magazine too...

El_Duderino 09

givyjoe wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

I got deju-vu writing my previous post. We've had this exact same argument. You can trawl through the documentary yourself, I recall it being a voice over at one stage: https://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/asking-for-it-reality-bites-30004323/10644044/

We seriously need a sticky for the pile of sh1te that LON has spouted so we can stop, periodically, being asked the same question (by the same people) over and over.

Are you confident LON says all men are rapists as the poster above claims?

The sticky might not be a bad idea if it clears these kinds of things up.

I’m not in Ireland at the moment so I can’t use the RTE player.

I’ll admit Ill be very surprised if she actually says all men are rapists. But it was asserted so confidently by the poster above that it would be very embarrassing if it turns out she didn’t say that.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

And if I ho through the documentary I’ll find her saying hat all men are rapists? I’m sure you’re a LON aficionado so I’ll take you’re word for it if you say that’s in there.

Is it in there?

I'm 95% sure you will find the phrase "We need to teach our young men (or boys) not to rape"

So not the claim I asked you about then. The claim that all men are rapists....

Glad we got to the bottom of that. A sticky would probably be great to clear up this nonsense without it going completely unchallenged by the usual backslapped.

As I said earlier we teach all children to cross the road safely but we don’t assume all children would’ve knocked down otherwise. We teach healthy eating without assuming all children would be one obese or unhealthy otherwise.

Of course we need to teach about consent, but I don’t assume all boys would be rapists otherwise.

0cp71eyxkb94qf

This post has been deleted.

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So not the claim I asked you about then. The claim that all men are rapists....

Glad we got to the bottom of that. A sticky would probably be great to clear up this nonsense without it going completely unchallenged by the usual backslapped.

As I said earlier we teach all children to cross the road safely but we don’t assume all children would’ve knocked down otherwise. We teach healthy eating without assuming all children would be one obese or unhealthy otherwise.

Of course we need to teach about consent, but I don’t assume all boys would be rapists otherwise.

I really don't think that analogy follows. Getting hit by a car is something that happens to someone out of carelessness. Being obese is a side effect of being unaware of how to eat well. Committing a rape is an utterly abhorrent act that requires sociopath tendencies and complete lack of empathy.

And of course she's never going to come out and literally say "All men are rapists". I was saying that the idea that we need to teach rapists tendencies out of boys is needlessly incendiary, insulting and counter-productive; which implies that all men are rapists to begin with.

El_Duderino 09

Jaylen Damp Kindergarten wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Lynx wearing morons lol... There used to be a time when we had to stick to what was actually said rather than going completely freestyle.

Should I make some silly generalisation about the anti feminists or the right, as you did above? If it’s all the same to you, I decline the opportunity to match your silly comment.

0cp71eyxkb94qf

This post has been deleted.

El_Duderino 09

Deleted User wrote: »

I really don't think that analogy follows. Getting hit by a car is something that happens to someone out of carelessness. Being obese is a side effect of being unaware of how to eat well. Committing a rape is an utterly abhorrent act that requires sociopath tendencies and complete lack of empathy.

And of course she's never going to come out and literally say "All men are rapists". I was saying that the idea that we need to teach rapists tendencies out of boys is needlessly incendiary, insulting and counter-productive; which implies that all men are rapists to begin with.

That’s the old school view of rape alright. Where rape involves a sycophant who intentionally rapes without empathy. That’s one of the problems alright and I must thank you for summarising it do succinctly.

Tell Paddy Jackson that rape and consent are clear cut issues that don’t need to be explained or discussed with children. I bet you anything he would disagree with you.

El_Duderino 09

Jaylen Damp Kindergarten wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I would have thought that moment has come when you attribute made up insults so someone and make a generalisation about ‘the modus operandi of the modern left’.

But whatever you’re having yourself. If you find a way to link your tangent back to LON be sure to let me know.

Doctor Jimbob

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So not the claim I asked you about then. The claim that all men are rapists....

Glad we got to the bottom of that. A sticky would probably be great to clear up this nonsense without it going completely unchallenged by the usual backslapped.

As I said earlier we teach all children to cross the road safely but we don’t assume all children would’ve knocked down otherwise. We teach healthy eating without assuming all children would be one obese or unhealthy otherwise.

Of course we need to teach about consent, but I don’t assume all boys would be rapists otherwise.

Doesn't it logically follow from that analogy that we should be teaching girls how to avoid being raped in addition to teaching boys not to do it? Yet the second that's even suggested, there are cries of victim blaming from some quarters.

PlaneSpeeking

Then you get this crap, police trying to HELP people and offer them advice and of course "it's victim blaming".

http://www.dailyedge.ie/rape-culture-victim-blaming-4290866-Oct2018/

FFS it's trying to STOP YOU BEING A VICTIM!!!!

Yeah_Right

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So not the claim I asked you about then. The claim that all men are rapists....

Glad we got to the bottom of that. A sticky would probably be great to clear up this nonsense without it going completely unchallenged by the usual backslapped.

As I said earlier we teach all children to cross the road safely but we don’t assume all children would’ve knocked down otherwise. We teach healthy eating without assuming all children would be one obese or unhealthy otherwise.

Of course we need to teach about consent, but I don’t assume all boys would be rapists otherwise.

Saying that boys/men need to be taught not to rape is more like saying that drivers have to be taught not to deliberately drive into pedestrians.

El_Duderino 09

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

So not the claim I asked you about then. The claim that all men are rapists....

Glad we got to the bottom of that. A sticky would probably be great to clear up this nonsense without it going completely unchallenged by the usual backslapped.

As I said earlier we teach all children to cross the road safely but we don’t assume all children would’ve knocked down otherwise. We teach healthy eating without assuming all children would be one obese or unhealthy otherwise.

Of course we need to teach about consent, but I don’t assume all boys would be rapists otherwise.

Doesn't it logically follow from that analogy that we should be teaching girls how to avoid being raped in addition to teaching boys not to do it? Yet the second that's even suggested, there are cries of victim blaming from some quarters.

You mean safeguarding? Yes it does. I think I’ve probably said that 5 times in the last few pages. As we teach people not to be mugged or how to be sure you don’t lose your wallet.

You want to read the outrage when there were proposed consent classes. Posters got very upset altogether. Is that what you’re talking about?

Here’s a mad idea that PS didn’t seem to get earlier; just because some people complain, it doesn’t make it a bad idea.

El_Duderino 09

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Then you get this crap, police trying to HELP people and offer them advice and of course "it's victim blaming".

http://www.dailyedge.ie/rape-culture-victim-blaming-4290866-Oct2018/

FFS it's trying to STOP YOU BEING A VICTIM!!!!

I know. And when they tried to discuss consent it was deemed akin to calling all men rapists. Some people are just dopes, eh.

El_Duderino 09

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Saying that boys/men need to be taught not to rape is more like saying that drivers have to be taught not to deliberately drive into pedestrians.

Not necessarily at all. You teach drivers to drive safely to avoid drivers hitting pedestrians through negligence, accident, or lack of due care. We also teach pedestrians how to stay safe. It doesn’t take intention to hit a pedestrian nor does it take intention to commit a rape.

Working with one group doesn’t assume the worst of the other group. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Yeah_Right

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Not necessarily at all. You teach drivers to drive safely to avoid drivers hitting pedestrians through negligence, accident, or lack of due care. We also teach pedestrians how to stay safe. It doesn’t take intention to hit a pedestrian nor does it take intention to commit a rape.

Working with one group doesn’t assume the worst of the other group. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Accidental rape WTF?!?

"Sorry officer, it was an accident. I didn't intend to rape her. My penis has a mind of its own."

El_Duderino 09

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

That’s the old school view of rape alright. Where rape involves a sycophant who intentionally rapes without empathy. That’s one of the problems alright and I must thank you for summarising it do succinctly.

Tell Paddy Jackson that rape and consent are clear cut issues that don’t need to be explained or discussed with children. I bet you anything he would disagree with you.

There's a difference between teaching consent classes (which I'm fully in support of) and teaching "boys not to rape"