Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Strawberry Milkshake

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I swear she’s the alter ego of that Katie one.

Hopkins - ya she’s the polar/extreme opposite of her

paw patrol

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

Hopkins - ya she’s the polar/extreme opposite of her

katie at least has some consistency.

paw patrol

paw patrol wrote: »

katie at least has some consistency.

Katie doesnt virtue signal at least. She doesnt hide the fact she is an obnoxious b1tch and at least will turn up and debate with people instead of running away crying like a little wallflower

deaddonkey15

A lot of what Katie Hopkins says is true too.

kunst nugget

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

A lot of what Katie Hopkins says is true too.

Haha, yeah. Nice one. That's a good joke.

deaddonkey15

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

A lot of what Katie Hopkins says is true too.

hmmm.... Each point on their merit as Johnny Giles might say

She is now pushing her agenda by referencing a 1950s play (Sive). I kid you not.
If there is one thing i hate about modern Ireland is people like this cabbage playing the victim

For Forks Sake

Irish Times literary reviewer was not kind to her latest novel.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/almost-love-by-louise-o-neill-if-i-wasn-t-reviewing-this-i-d-have-skipped-whole-chunks-1.3406085?mode=amp

kunst nugget

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Irish Times literary reviewer was not kind to her latest novel.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/almost-love-by-louise-o-neill-if-i-wasn-t-reviewing-this-i-d-have-skipped-whole-chunks-1.3406085?mode=amp

Do you think so? She seems to admire what O'Neill has done with the book in terms of nuance even if she found it hard going at times. Wouldn't call it a negative review despite the out quote used at the beginning.

neonsofa

kunst nugget wrote: »

Do you think so? She seems to admire what O'Neill has done with the book in terms of nuance even if she found it hard going at times. Wouldn't call it a negative review despite the out quote used at the beginning.

Yeah I thought the same

kunst nugget

[Deleted User] wrote: »

She is now pushing her agenda by referencing a 1950s play (Sive). I kid you not.
If there is one thing i hate about modern Ireland is people like this cabbage playing the victim

What's the context for referencing Sive? The rest of the article is behind a pay wall.

For Forks Sake

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Irish Times literary reviewer was not kind to her latest novel.

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/almost-love-by-louise-o-neill-if-i-wasn-t-reviewing-this-i-d-have-skipped-whole-chunks-1.3406085?mode=amp

I'm reading the review laughing tbh. She's basically wrote about a moany spoilt priveleged little cúnt who doesn't know what she is angry about....
Sound familiar? I suppose the irony was lost on her

kunst nugget

kunst nugget wrote: »

What's the context for referencing Sive? The rest of the article is behind a pay wall.

Sive is about a beautiful young strong-headed girl who was 'sold' into marrying an older man by her parents and fair enough it regrettably did go on in Ireland (Rural Ireland predominantly)

Of course Louise compared it to the plight of the current 'oppressed' damsels all over Ireland. I'll copy the text for you and link it

LOUISE O'NEILL: Women are still encouraged to ‘marry well’, to make a good match

18



Saturday, March 03, 2018
I went to see an excellent production of Sive in the Gaiety Theatre recently. Written by John B Keane in the 1950s, it tells the story of a teenage girl who is sold into marriage with a much older, albeit wealthy man, and is one of my favourite plays, writes Louise O’Neill.


I first saw it as a child in 1994, in St Mary’s Hall in Rossmore as part of the Kilmeen Drama festival. I remember sitting on the one of the long, wooden benches at the front with all the other children, packets of Taytos in hand, staring at the stage in shock at the story that was unfolding before me. I’ve seen Sive multiple times since, but the production in the Gaiety was the first time that I had heard an audience find the play so hilariously funny.

They were almost giddy, something I found jarring as Sive has been seared into my brain as a deeply disturbing piece of theatre.

Yes, there are flashes of dark humour in order to break the tension, but it is still a story about a desperate child bride who is driven to suicide. Hearing people laugh heartily when Sive describes Sean Dota’s attempts to assault her made me deeply uncomfortable. I’ve always expected a play like Sive to be treated with respect, rather than seen as a bawdy farce. And Sive does deserve to be treated with respect.

There is so much to unpick within the narrative, not least the way that John B explores the narrow roles that women are expected to fit into in order to survive. Nanna is the old crone by the fire, dismissed and belittled because of her age.

Mena, the daughter-in-law, is not a spinster, of course, but it is hinted that she is either barren or cannot satisfy her husband sexually. And then there is young Sive, the sacrificial virgin, her beauty a currency that she does not wish to cash in.

It’s fascinating to see how John B portrays gendered expectations around female behaviour, and quite pointedly explores the intersection between money and freedom, particularly for women.

Virginia Woolf was discussing the importance of having A Room of One’s Own in 1929, and in Sive, it is clear that having money of one’s own is equally essential.

When women are dependent on the men in their lives, from their fathers to their husbands, to provide for them, it is clear that those women are often driven to make bad decisions. I felt sympathy for Mena (brilliantly portrayed by Andrea Irvine), and could see her as a complicated, complex woman who has so few choices because she has so little financial freedom.

Her latent anger is palpable, and it made me think of all those other women in 1950s Ireland who were trapped by circumstances, seething in silence. Her bartering of Sive in exchange for £200 is reprehensible, but it’s telling that the blame is laid at Mena’s feet for Sive’s suicide, despite her husband’s feeble acquiescence to the plan, Thomasheen Seán Rua’s complicity in making the initial match, and Seán Dota’s lustful greed for the young girl.

While Sive has been performed continuously since its first showing in March 1959, it seems prescient of the Druid production company to choose to re-create it for 2018.

Women are still encouraged to ‘marry well’, to make a good match, the implicit suggestion being that we need to depend on a man to take care of us. Given the gender pay gap, and the fact women are often encouraged into professions that (criminally, in my opinion) pay a great deal less, such as teaching and nursing, perhaps this is not surprising.

And in the wake of the #MeToo movement and conversations around female sexuality, the objectification of the female body, and consent, Sive feels more relevant than ever. At the Gaiety that night, I thought of all the Irish women who had come before me, the women who had their bodies policed and controlled as they were told how they should behave; how they should exist in this world in the name of all that is holy and pious. My heart ached for all the Sives whose stories will never be told.

The girls pushed into marriages with ‘suitable’ men whom they did not love. The girls punished for having sex outside of marriage, cast out of polite society and branded indecent. The horrors inflicted upon the women thrown in the Magdalene laundries and the Mother and Baby homes, their babies ripped away from them as soon as they drew their first breath. And then I thought of this Modern Ireland, where an audience could sit and laugh hysterically at a play like Sive, when the eighth amendment still holds a place in our Constitution, forcing 12 women a day leave this shores so they can exercise bodily autonomy. Sive is about freedom, and the right to make choices about your own life, your own body, your own future.

How can we say we are free when we do not have the right to choose?

freshpopcorn

Women are still encouraged to ‘marry well’, to make a good match.

Does she expect people to marry bad or something?

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Women are still encouraged to ‘marry well’, to make a good match.

Does she expect people to marry bad or something?

If i brought home a toe rag of a woman im sure my parents and siblings would express their concerns at some stage. She is mistaken well wishes of parents as a means of trying to control their children

I dont know of one couple this day and age of my generation or even prior generations where they were forced to marry someone they didnt want to at least not amongst fellow Irish people anyway. If it goes on its a stark minority of cases

freshpopcorn

Deleted User wrote: »

If i brought home a toe rag of a woman im sure my parents and siblings would express their concerns at some stage.

I dont know of one couple this day and age of my generation or even prior generations where they were forced to marry.

Sometimes with the statements she makes I question what type of people she mixes with!

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Sometimes with the statements she makes I question what type of people she mixes with!

Lefty feminist loons like herself and worse, men who claim to be feminists

freshpopcorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Sometimes with the statements she makes I question what type of people she mixes with!

Tupac and Woke Baes of course 😊

RabbleRouser2k

And yet many of her ilk think Sharia Law is lovely.

Where in Ireland is someone 'forced into marriage?' At least not by traditional Irish citizens, anyways. (We know of forced FGM in ireland, as well as backyard circumcisions-LON kept quiet about those, didn't she?)

Deleted User wrote: »

Sive is about a beautiful young strong-headed girl who was 'sold' into marrying an older man by her parents and fair enough it regrettably did go on in Ireland (Rural Ireland predominantly)

Of course Louise compared it to the plight of the current 'oppressed' damsels all over Ireland. I'll copy the text for you and link it

Dear Gawwdd...the woman who lives with her parents, and berates her mom is being 'oppressed'....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Btw, just an objection-it wasn't isolated to rural Ireland where girls were forced into marriage. Happened in cities too.
The 'wayward' daughter who the family worried about...never mind she was just a free spirit, was often forced into marriage.
Or the girl who was 'up the pole' aka pregnant was often forced to marry the lad who got her knocked up, or an older gent who'll 'take care of her' but doesn't have anyone to help work in his job, such as coal man or milk man.
It happened all over Ireland-I remember my parents talking to me about the 'forced' marriages that went on (in a limited capacity-I know even my grandparents marriage was a traditional courtship).

In my own extended family, on my dad's side, they were much more 'liberal'-or liberal as you could be in those times. My uncle was offered his uncle's farm, as my uncle didn't have a son, and he would have been delighted to keep it in the family, or extended family.
My aunt was hoped to help out at home, to possibly marry (of her own free will). Nobody was forced to marry anyone, arranged marriages were frowned on. You'd introduce someone to a potential spouse, but you couldn't force a marriage.

My uncle went for the priesthood, choosing it of his own free will. My aunt became a nun, again, of her own free will. This was unusual, in that many were forced into it-and quite a few of those who were forced, left it.
(If you've ever seen Saturday Night Fever, the bit where the main character's brother leaves the seminary, shaming his parents, is sadly a reality. Possibly why many stayed).

um7y1h83ge06nx

I wonder about her sometimes alright. Is she lacking intelligence, lacking an ability to analyse things or does she just associate with the fringes of society?

As a previous poster said most parents want their children, male or female, to marry "well", finding someone decent.

Can you imagine what sort of yoke she would bring home to her parents. Some raving, rage against the machine waster who wouldn't work to warm himself. But he would be a feminist so all would be good with the world.

freshpopcorn

Garrett Incalculable Schoolgirl wrote: »

As a previous poster said most parents want their children, male or female, to marry "well", finding someone decent.

Can you imagine what sort of yoke she would bring home to her parents. Some raving, rage against the machine waster who wouldn't work to warm himself. But he would be a feminist so all would be good with the world.

He also mightn't like Friends!

The Rape of Lucretia

Garrett Incalculable Schoolgirl wrote: »

Can you imagine what sort of yoke she would bring home to her parents. Some raving, rage against the machine waster who wouldn't work to warm himself. But he would be a feminist so all would be good with the world.

I would bet the opposite actually. There hasnt been a woman born yet who wont swoon for a man, whatever his viewpoint, if he has some combination of being rich, good looking, power, and public acclaim.
A bit like young socialists becoming capitalists as they age and make a bit of money.

blow69

She'd do well to move out from under her parents to gain some independence and maturity.

The_Kew_Tour

I'm convinced she is just trolling now.

Either that or she is nuts

In fairness Louise could be just one girl who needs help and fair enough I hope she gets it. It's her cheerleaders who cheer her ideology and give her a platform that it is more alarming

Obi_Wan_Kenobi

Garrett Incalculable Schoolgirl wrote: »

I wonder about her sometimes alright. Is she lacking intelligence, lacking an ability to analyse things or does she just associate with the fringes of society?

As a previous poster said most parents want their children, male or female, to marry "well", finding someone decent.

Can you imagine what sort of yoke she would bring home to her parents. Some raving, rage against the machine waster who wouldn't work to warm himself. But he would be a feminist so all would be good with the world.

I think she is totally skewed from her own experience of men, and really deep down has a pathological hatred of men.

Something unfortunate has happened to her when she was younger and unfortunately she holds all men responsible.

Obi_Wan_Kenobi

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

I'm convinced she is just trolling now.

Either that or she is nuts

Well she clearly is nuts !!

RabbleRouser2k

Obi_Wan_Kenobi wrote: »

I think she is totally skewed from her own experience of men, and really deep down has a pathological hatred of men.

Something unfortunate has happened to her when she was younger and unfortunately she holds all men responsible.

She's the kind of woman who wishes she was lesbian, methinks. She got dumped by a 22 year old because she was immature.
I mean, this is the 'woman' who said ' ‘The hardest place to maintain my feminism is in a relationship with a straight man’...

None of that makes a lick of sense. But then again, I'm wary of anyone who calls themselves a feminist.

backspin.

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

She's the kind of woman who wishes she was lesbian, methinks. She got dumped by a 22 year old because she was immature.
I mean, this is the 'woman' who said ' ‘The hardest place to maintain my feminism is in a relationship with a straight man’...

None of that makes a lick of sense. But then again, I'm wary of anyone who calls themselves a feminist.

That should tell anyone with an ounce of sense that her brand of feminism has to be wrong.

buried