Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Ralf and Florian

Garrett Incalculable Schoolgirl wrote: »

Well given her support of the degenerates that were looting in Dublin you may as well bring a few criminals in to chat to the kids as well.

In all fairness as much as I can't stand the woman its a stretch to say she was supporting them.

Omackeral

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

In all fairness as much as I can't stand the woman its a stretch to say she was supporting them.

I wouldn’t say she was supporting them as such but she was seemingly very concerned that they were being called scumbags. The horror like. They acted like out and out scumbags so that’s what the vast majority of straight forward thinking people would describe them as. It’s not like they were 13 year old lads, one of the arrested people was a 47 year old ffs.

professore

meeeeh wrote: »

My point was it is less expensive and damaging for the society to subsidise childcare or decent maternity leave and enable people to work. I singled out single mothers because they rely on social welfare and because they and their kids are amongst most vulnerable in society. I have no objection to paying out social welfare or whatever other supports but it's always better if people can earn their own money. But nobody will work just to pay childcare.

Countries with heavily subsidised childcare have the lowest birth rates in the world.

tritium

meeeeh wrote: »

No it's a comparison, Ireland's record in treatment of women is not great, surely you can't deny that? I listed some issues earlier. I wasn't born here, I live here and I like Ireland. But I don't have access to free contraception including free abortion, one year paid maternity leave (100% or 80% of earnings up to above average wages), a lot cheaper childcare in comparison to income, income disparity is a lot lower(non-existent) and percentage of employed women a lot higher. I know some would consider the last one disadvantage but I don't know a single mother where I come from who doesn't work and that makes their children a lot less vulnerable. I'm not saying things are perfect, far from it but in this area Ireland has a bit of catching up to do.

I’m male, I don’t have access to any of the above either. Abortion is the only one not relevant to me there. Why is this a women’s issue?

I don’t have access to free contraception (not sure why I or anyone should have tbh)

I don’t have a year paternity leave on near full pay (I legally get dramatically less than female employees, who get significantly longer than what is required medically)

I also have to pay through the nose for childcare

I guess you’d agree so that Ireland’s pretty poor in how it looks after men too

tritium

meeeeh wrote: »

I moved because of my partner. Among other reasons I spoke the language of country I was moving to he wouldn't if he had to move. In terms of lifestyle Ireland wasn't that much of an improvement for me (but that's personal circumstances and has nothing to do with general situation).

Just a correction that year maternity I mentioned, large chunk of it is transferable to whichever partner wants to stay at home.

So no statuatory right for males to have a decent block of paternity leave?

You do realize that all of the international evidence shows that where it is transferable the female partner is inevitably the one who ends up taking it? I always feel it’s kind of easy to call for that sort of leave, to pretend there’s options out there. What’s wrong with locking in a decent block that has to be taken by a given person? At the moment Ireland’s paternity leave is a farce, and that’s in spite of much heralded improvements

professore

meeeeh wrote: »

Obvious difference is that you earn your own money and one partner is dependent. It doesn't matter in happy relationships but it makes huge difference in abusive ones. I would find it very hard not to have my own income in any case.

Interesting. This is only relevant for high pressure career type jobs as social welfare will provide as much money or more than minimum wage jobs should a relationship break up. I see many women in low paid crappy flexible jobs where everything they earn goes to childcare, so they can tell their friends they have a "career" and complain about the "wage gap". It's ridiculous.

I don't think many men enter marriages with this cynical attitude - half their stuff is on the line should the marriage break up. They also don't think "what if my wife is abusive, BPD an addict" etc and plan accordingly. That's a recipe for unhappiness and divorce. Whatever happened to being a team and doing what's best for the family unit, rather than what's best for the wife. Lots of men silently working in jobs they hate and killing them from stress and long hours because they pay well to support their families. That's the real wage gap.

Plenty of couples I know where what he earns is ours and what she earns is hers. Plus she takes all the tax credits. Probably happens the other way round too - because if you're in an abusive relationship, he's going to take your money

professore

meeeeh wrote: »

My point was it is less expensive and damaging for the society to subsidise childcare or decent maternity leave and enable people to work. I singled out single mothers because they rely on social welfare and because they and their kids are amongst most vulnerable in society. I have no objection to paying out social welfare or whatever other supports but it's always better if people can earn their own money. But nobody will work just to pay childcare.

Having your kids minded by strangers is less expensive and damaging to society? The jury is still out on that one. I used to think like you until I had kids of my own. No substitute for parents minding their own kids - especially the mother. Assuming she's not psycho of course.

Hector Savage

Charmeleon wrote: »

What if she goes into a school and instead of saying ‘Girls, the world is out there waiting for you. You are so lucky to live in a time when you not only have equal rights with men, but you live in a country where the highest office in the land was twice occupied by women elected by the entire population. You have every career opportunity open to to you and many industries are actively looking to employ you over similarly qualified men. You can expect to earn more than your male peers right through to your mid-thirties and can then expect support and understanding for whatever career or home life choice you make. Violence against women has been under decline and you are less likely to be randomly attacked on the streets. Go out and be confident, brave and go get what you want in life.’

Instead they will very likely get: ‘The world hates you because of your gender. You will be harshly discriminated against and are highly likely to be sexually assaulted by any male that crosses your path. When that does happen, society will blame you and celebrate your attacker. Rapists are treated like royalty. Any criticism you receive is motivated by misogyny. He will get the promotion, not you.’ You will end up squashed by a patriarchal state that does not listen to your voice.’

The problem with her worldview is it programs girls to expect failure and hatred in a time when they are much more likely than ever before to achieve any goal they set. It’s destructive and devisive, paranoid and plain wrong.

SPOT on !!!

It's posts like this that give me hope for there is still sense in the world!

meeeeh

professore wrote: »

Having your kids minded by strangers is less expensive and damaging to society? The jury is still out on that one. I used to think like you until I had kids of my own. No substitute for parents minding their own kids - especially the mother. Assuming she's not psycho of course.

Well then I hope we'll see no more threads about single mothers living of the system. You have them where you want them and you have another generation of kids growing up in poverty. Btw I have kids of my own, keeping them at home till they went to school would be waste of theirs and my time.

Hector Savage

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

Saw somewhere she was asked why she hates men and should they start hating their male relatives

She wrote an article somewhere too, where she asked what her grandfathers motives were for sitting her on his lap when she was a child.

Totally disgusting I hope he never read it.

suicide_circus

Hector Savage wrote: »

She wrote an article somewhere too, where she asked what her grandfathers motives were for sitting her on his lap when she was a child.

Totally disgusting I hope he never read it.

classy. hope the man is dead and can't be hurt by her perverse insinuations.

Water John

I don't think that was inferred in her original text. It's somewhere up along the thread. Didn't like it anyway, but comment on the original not a twisted variation, TBF.

For the record:
"I think of when I was three, cuddling into my Granddad Murphy’s lap as he stroked my hair and told me I was the best girl and I wonder did he really think that, or did he secretly hate women too?"

KrustyUCC

This is her original article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/louise-oneill-i-wonder-if-my-ex-boyfriends-thought-female-sexuality-was-something-to-be-laughed-at-383021.html

Article about an alleged Facebook group in UCD who's purpose was to exchange explicit photos of girls they have had sex with and rate them.

Louise O'Neill wrote:

"With the paranoia that the night can bring I start to think of all the men that I have known.

I think of when I was three, cuddling into my Granddad Murphy’s lap as he stroked my hair and told me I was the best girl and I wonder did he really think that, or did he secretly hate women too?

I think of my uncles and my male cousins and my male friends and how kind they all seem, and I begin to fear that their smiles might hide their sneers, that they might think I’m a stupid bitch who needs to stop complaining.

I think of my ex-boyfriends, how I stood naked before them and I wonder if they thought my body was something to be talked about with their friends, if they too thought female sexuality was something to be laughed at.

The next day my father rings. He is worried about me, he tells me.

“Your mother tells me you’ve gone viral.”

I can hear the desperation in my voice as I answer ‘yes’, but I’m right aren’t I? What happened was despicable, wasn’t it?

But all I can really hear is myself asking him if he still loves me. If he loves me even if I am ‘just a girl’.

He is measured, as he always is, and I feel my panic dissipating with every sensible, good, decent word that he says.

“You are doing the right thing,” he tells me. “I am so proud of you.”

Louise does not agree with UCD'sw investigation into the matter

https://www.joe.ie/news/ucd-the-revenge-porn-facebook-page-was-all-unsubstantiated-hearsay-530849

retro:electro

“I think of my uncles and my male cousins and my male friends and how kind they all seem, and I begin to fear that their smiles might hide their sneers, that they might think I’m a stupid bitch who needs to stop complaining”

She might have a point there to be fair.

freshpopcorn

When you see the comments she makes about her uncles and grandfather wouldn't you be dying if you were related to her. Just think what she might come out with next.

buried

"I think of when I was three, cuddling into my Granddad Murphy’s lap as he stroked my hair and told me I was the best girl and I wonder did he really think that, or did he secretly hate women too?"

Holy f**king Hell, If this person can't even look back on fond memories of spending time with their own Grandad while claiming they were a victim in that sort of scenario, they are either doing or involved in one of two things.

1. Being a $hitstirring devisive troll.
2. Genuinely in a very dark place.

Neither should be listened to. That outlandish grim sentence proves that nobody should be listening to this person, bar a professional, until they sort their $hit out.

Charmeleon

freshpopcorn wrote: »

When you see the comments she makes about her uncles and grandfather wouldn't you be dying if you were related to her. Just think what she might come out with next.

I think that maybe she hasn’t fully progressed past the developmental phase where children say ‘bad words’ or do rude things to amuse themselves with the wonderfully amusing out of proportion reaction of the surrounding adults. I think she also enjoys the unusually comfortable position of saying anything you want about your hate group without having to deal with any consequences personally.

For a racist xenophobe, her position would be the thing of fantasies. Imagine being able to say just how awful you think different people are, right there out in the open and have all your favourite kind of people applaud you. It’s a rare position of indulgence these days and many of her ilk are thoroughly enjoying it.

KrustyUCC

KrustyUCC wrote: »

This is her original article

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/features/louise-oneill-i-wonder-if-my-ex-boyfriends-thought-female-sexuality-was-something-to-be-laughed-at-383021.html

Article about an alleged Facebook group in UCD who's purpose was to exchange explicit photos of girls they have had sex with and rate them.



Louise does not agree with UCD'sw investigation into the matter

https://www.joe.ie/news/ucd-the-revenge-porn-facebook-page-was-all-unsubstantiated-hearsay-530849

No apology still and she made a show out of herself when Anton savage brought her on the show and he kept debunking /questioning her whinge

RabbleRouser2k

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

No apology still and she made a show out of herself when Anton savage brought her on the show and he kept debunking /questioning her whinge

I got the feeling he wanted to rip her to pieces, exposing her bullcrap, but his producer was like 'ah leave the pet alone'. That's the problem I have with her ilk, she'd lose a debate to a wall.

The usual people were moaning about 'Jennifer Lawrences dress' and 'Gary Oldman shouldn't win an Oscar because he might have gotten violent with an ex-wife...even though she could have been lying'.

Well, nobody batted an eyelid when Kobe Bryant won last night (Dear Basketball) for best short animated film.
Despite more evidence against him, as a rapist, then against Oldman as a domestically violent individual (the former had a court case, for one).

And then Emma Watson turned up with a terrible tattoo that was grammatically incorrect, despite her supposedly studying English, and being English.

buried

buried wrote: »

Holy f**king Hell, If this person can't even look back on fond memories of spending time with their own Grandad while claiming they were a victim in that sort of scenario, they are either doing or involved in one of two things.

1. Being a $hitstirring devisive troll.
2. Genuinely in a very dark place.

Neither should be listened to. That outlandish grim sentence proves that nobody should be listening to this person, bar a professional, until they sort their $hit out.

Heres for the fúcked up part. This woman is considered some form of heroine amongst sectors of Irish women, is fully supported by her editor in the Examiner - a national newspaper that gives her an open canvas to write this stuff.

Modern Ireland.

Jim Bob Scratcher

God help the mug who ends up marrying this whackjob

Jim Bob Scratcher

Derek Stutter wrote: »

Every time before you get to have sex with her you have to watch a 3hr movie on consent which mostly consists of people drinking tea.

I really hope she is reading this thread

Sweetemotion

Deleted User wrote: »

Heres for the fúcked up part. This woman is considered some form of heroine amongst sectors of Irish women, is fully supported by her editor in the Examiner - a national newspaper that gives her an open canvas to write this stuff.

Modern Ireland.

Heard that fecking tool, Eoghan Mcdermott.

Giving her admiration today on his show. A national radio station kept alive by the tax payer.

professore

meeeeh wrote: »

Well then I hope we'll see no more threads about single mothers living of the system. You have them where you want them and you have another generation of kids growing up in poverty. Btw I have kids of my own, keeping them at home till they went to school would be waste of theirs and my time.

I don't want women at home who don't want to be. I would argue there are lots of women unlike you who are working because they have to and not because they want to - and who are upset every day leaving their kids with someone else.

Why do you think it's a waste of your kids time to spend some if their formative years with their mother? Do you feel you would damage them in some way? Or is your career making a positive difference to humanity such as healthcare? If I had spent those years full time at home with my kids I certainly wouldn't have seen it as a waste.

Veered way off topic here but this is an interesting point of view I haven't heard before.

Sweetemotion

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Heard that fecking tool, Eoghan Mcdermott.

Giving her admiration today on his show. A national radio station kept alive by the tax payer.

He is a tool..

Ash.J.Williams

Louise was complaining about the use of the word "scumbag" to describe what's popularly known as a scumbag. She referred to it as classist language. If you read between the lines that says quite a bit about her.

um7y1h83ge06nx

She is someone where I would not be surprised if she got involved in something serious or tragic. She has a lot of baggage and out there views on life, people, family etc.

I wouldn't want to be in a room alone with her certainly, would be afraid that something I did or said would be completely misinterpreted and I end up in big trouble.

Wibbs

buried wrote: »

Holy f**king Hell, If this person can't even look back on fond memories of spending time with their own Grandad while claiming they were a victim in that sort of scenario, they are either doing or involved in one of two things.

1. Being a $hitstirring devisive troll.
2. Genuinely in a very dark place.

or a third option that I think I may have suggested earlier(memory like a sieve I have. ); namely that she was going through some issues as an adolescent - as many of us will, it's kinda part of being an adolescent in many ways - and wanting to be a writer and loving fashion she ended up in the latter industry. In New York. Perfect storm of fcukwitterery for anyone suffering from body image worries. It's an industry that redefines daft in that regard and has a damned good go at redefining fcuking insane while we're at it.

On a few levels: A succession of unrealistic body images painted as an ideal(that shifts with time and the wind. A "real woman" today is a skinny/fat bitch tomorrow), levels of bullsh1t that would trouble the most experienced of cattle farmers, mahooossive quantities of substance abuse and bitchy office politics. Add vast quantities of money to be made from this nonsense and bake. Throw anyone who might be feeling a little adrift into that toxic milieu and going off the rails(no pun) is almost guaranteed.

So she naturally felt out of whack. One would have to be actually insane not to. So goes for help and ends up seeing a shrink to seek help. Great. Only said shrink/quack was also filtering her therapy through the lens of intersectional feminism(gross ethical issues with that but anyhoo..). And it worked for her. Great. However when one is thrown a lifeline that seems to work, one tends to naturally buy into everything attached to said lifeline. Like folks who have gone through a rough patch and get help through religion. They're about as fervent believers as one could get.

To take any sort of objective view that might go against the very thing you think has "saved" you would be incredibly difficult for anyone. Folks who have gone through such hard times tend to be frail in perspective and reactionary agin their personal saviour. Indeed they usually hit the proselytising angle with the fervour of newly minted missionaries.

So it is any wonder this woman comes out with this stuff? These are the tools that she has been given and reckons are the only tools that work. If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail.

I have found this goes for any overly fervently held social-political mindset, Left, Right, in, out, shake it all about, from "feminist" to "red pill", it's almost always either a control thing(in the minority) or(in the majority) a mental crutch to explain the world in ways the person feels safest in dealing with.

Wibbs

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

I really hope she is reading this thread

Actually I don't. And I say that as someone who would be among the first to call bullsh1t on her worldview. She likely is aware of it as she would be well plugged into social media, but this thread would do her no good.

meeeeh

professore wrote: »

I don't want women at home who don't want to be. I would argue there are lots of women unlike you who are working because they have to and not because they want to - and who are upset every day leaving their kids with someone else.

Why do you think it's a waste of your kids time to spend some if their formative years with their mother? Do you feel you would damage them in some way? Or is your career making a positive difference to humanity such as healthcare? If I had spent those years full time at home with my kids I certainly wouldn't have seen it as a waste.

Veered way off topic here but this is an interesting point of view I haven't heard before.

Because I'm not that good with young kids abd because I like to go to work. As for positive difference to humanity, many people are making a difference. Some in healthcare, many in other professions including private sector, even banks. Why would you single out healthcare? There are good and useless people employed there like in any sector. I don't think I make a difference at all to the humanity but I would like to think we treat our employees fairly and with decency. That is enough for me, I don't need a sainthood to excuse sending kids to chilminder/creche.