Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Omackeral

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Ah Dear Sweet Jeebus-I'm from Kerry, everyone who heard about those 50 people were horrified by it. The guy in question claimed to be 'a decent citizen helping the guards'. What he actually was was a pain in their sides, who ticked em all off. Those 50 people were mocked and derided for that sheer act of callousness and stupidity.

Every county has idiots-look at Dublin. The Lidl incident, the tossers who put people's lives and livelihoods at risk. 9 arrested, many more got away. ****ing idiots exist everywhere. Look at the thousands protesting, in Dublin, a crime that didn't even happen in their country with banners like 'Men R Trash'.

If you're gonna make fun of one county, look at the flipping capital which claims to be 'liberal' and then comes out with some appauling s***.

Ireland is screwed up-and the comments from Leo about the case, before it was even decided, show he's a few IQ points short of a plum pudding.

Wasn't even a crime by the letter of the law, that's the mad part.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

Given what I've seen on nights out then yes, the claim that it's a minority does need to backed up.

There's a word for that kind of prejudice, it's "sexism".

deaddonkey15

Zulu wrote: »

There's a word for that kind of prejudice, it's "sexism".

Hold on there. You can't be sexist towards men, it's impossible. Louise O'Neill said so.

RabbleRouser2k

I think LON would want to read this male rape victims story.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-raped-like-david-platt-12204444

The law is unbelievably horrible when it comes to rape cases. No matter the gender. And the claim 'it was consensual' can be difficult to not prove. Even in a case where it looks very much like no consent was given.
(As in the article linked).

But that's not what LON would like to hear-besides defaming people. (According to the court's judgement-whether you believe the verdict or not).

sydthebeat

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I think LON would want to read this male rape victims story.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-raped-like-david-platt-12204444

The law is unbelievably horrible when it comes to rape cases. No matter the gender. And the claim 'it was consensual' can be difficult to not prove. Even in a case where it looks very much like no consent was given.
(As in the article linked).

But that's not what LON would like to hear-besides defaming people. (According to the court's judgement-whether you believe the verdict or not).

She wouldn't make any money from championing that side of the argument

Yer Da sells Avon

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Hold on there. You can't be sexist towards men, it's impossible. Louise O'Neill said so.

If you read AH, it's the only type of sexism that exists.

py2006

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

If you read AH, it's the only type of sexism that exists.

Utter Crap.

It's just certain types don't like it brought up because....you know...its impossible

LLMMLL

Omackeral wrote: »

Ok firstly, we're talking about Ireland. Not America. Prison culture is way different to here. There are massive race issues in jails, prison gangs, murder on a scale not known here and the death penalty is legal in parts of that country. Rape as an actual weapon of intimidation and fear is far far more prevalent in America in the American system than it is here.



Already did. It was one case from nearly a decade ago and it appalled anyone I've ever spoken to about it. The vast vast majority on here, probably everyone actually, were disgusted by it too. It very much goes against what most people would deem acceptable.

So there are differences between the America and Irish prison system. What does that have to do with what were discussing.

Both prison populations supposedly abhor those who commit sexual offenses. According to you this is evidence of there not being a rape culture. Yet in American prisons there is a major issue with male rape. It doesnt matter that it's a different country. If abhorrence of rapists among prisoners was truly a measure of attitudes to rape, surely one would expect those prisoners not to be rapists themselves no matter what the jurisdiction.

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

There's a word for that kind of prejudice, it's "sexism".

I suppose you're going to tell me next that women behave exactly the same as men and tall about men in exactly the same way men talk about women because some woman grabbed your ass once ten years ago.

Yer Da sells Avon

py2006 wrote: »

Utter Crap.

It's just certain types don't like it brought up because....you know...its impossible

Certain other types (usually the types whose automatic reply to an accusation of misogyny is a very shrill cry of "what's misogynistic about...?") will always bring it up because... you know... as far as they can see, it's the only kind of sexism that matters.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

I suppose you're going to tell me ...

Seeing as you're not making a point, I'll take it that you accept your sexism. Sexism is bad; you should get that seen to.

Ri_Nollaig

LLMMLL wrote: »

I suppose you're going to tell me next that women behave exactly the same as men and tall about men in exactly the same way men talk about women because some woman grabbed your ass once ten years ago.

Speaking for all 3.5 billion women there?

namloc1980

Deleted User wrote: »

There's some joke here about clonakility sausages and Louise having issues with them but I cant formulate it..

Loves black pudding apparently.

LLMMLL

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

Speaking for all 3.5 billion women there?

No speaking in general. Same as anyone else who says anything about women and men in general.

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

Seeing as you're not making a point, I'll take it that you accept your sexism. Sexism is bad; you should get that seen to.

No you can take it that I don't accept that I'm sexist. But pretty sure you knew that.

upandcumming

LLMMLL wrote: »

I suppose you're going to tell me next that women behave exactly the same as men and tall about men in exactly the same way men talk about women because some woman grabbed your ass once ten years ago.

Careful!

Your Queen Louise O'Neill talks about rape culture being prevalent in private group messages, and how all men are part of the problem blah blah blah and you're basically dismissing sexual assault as nothing?

Ri_Nollaig

LLMMLL wrote: »

No speaking in general. Same as anyone else who says anything about women and men in general.

Also known as Generalisation.
For example; claiming that, no women, would ever, behave inappropriately or talk badly about the opposite sex.

I suppose you're going to tell me next that women behave exactly the same as men and tall about men in exactly the same way men talk about women because some woman grabbed your ass once ten years ago.

LLMMLL

upandcumming wrote: »

Careful!

Your Queen Louise O'Neill talks about rape culture being prevalent in private group messages, and how all men are part of the problem blah blah blah and you're basically dismissing sexual assault as nothing?

No I'm saying the experiences of men and women and the behaviour of both are different.

Women get groped, harassed etc. Far more frequently. Invariably someone comes along and says "this wan grabbed my ass in a club ten years ago" as evidence that women harass men as much as men harass women.

I'm not saying those individual acts of harassment are acceptable when done by women.

Also you can insert "in general" in the appropriate places.

LLMMLL

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

Also known as Generalisation.
For example; claiming that, no women, would ever, behave inappropriately or talk badly about the opposite sex.

I'm not claiming that no woman would ever do that. Do you know what "in general" means?

Ri_Nollaig

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm not claiming that no woman would ever do that. Do you know what "in general" means?

I am not sure really to tell you the truth.

Maybe I should use another example.
In general there is no such thing as 'rape culture' in Ireland. Yes, there are bad people who say/do bad things, both male and female. But in general Ireland is one of the safest countries to live in the world. But this doesn't suit the agenda of some who are profiting from peddling their wares by creating this illusion of some kinda women-hating paradise.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

No I'm saying the experiences of men and women and the behaviour of both are different.

Well more accurately your creating a position for me so you can argue against it; a strawman.

Conveniently you also are dismissing and trivialising sexual assault as experienced by some men, so kudos for you - its a twofer.

Your sexism knows no bounds!

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

Well more accurately your creating a position for me so you can argue against it; a strawman.

Conveniently you also are dismissing and trivialising sexual assault as experienced by some men, so kudos for you - its a twofer.

Your sexism knows no bounds!

I never dismissed or trivialized sexual assault against males. I said it happens less frequently. It's a bit hypocritical to say I've created a strawman and then to create one yourself.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

I never dismissed or trivialized sexual assault against males...

Apologies I must have misunderstood this non-point:

LLMMLL wrote: »

I suppose you're going to tell me next that women behave exactly the same as men and tall about men in exactly the same way men talk about women because some woman grabbed your ass once ten years ago.

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

Apologies I must have misunderstood this non-point:

Yes you misunderstood. I was criticising men who think they have the same experiences as women due to one incident of harassment. Women experience this harassment far far far more frequently.

I am not saying that the individual act of harassment is ok or more acceptable if done by a woman.

Second or third time I've clarified that.

Shelga

Columnist Jennifer O’Connell is on Twitter bleating on about rape culture again, this **** drives me mad. How can our national newspaper of note propagate this bull****, constantly trying to whip us all into an angry frenzy, in one of the safest, richest countries in the world.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yes you misunderstood. I was criticising men who think they have the same experiences as women due to one incident of harassment. Women experience this harassment far far far more frequently.

You're speaking of the handful of men you know personally of course, and not men in general - right?

Because you clearly wouldn't have any clue (other than your own prejudiced notions) about the experiences of men "in general". That's a given - right?

garbo speaks

Shelga wrote: »

Columnist Jennifer O’Connell is on Twitter bleating on about rape culture again, this **** drives me mad. How can our national newspaper of note propagate this bull****, constantly trying to whip us all into an angry frenzy, in one of the safest, richest countries in the world.

Because its easy for these deluded pc wackos to crusade against a non-existent problem. They wouldn't dream of writing to criticize the real oppressive cultures of Muslim countries where women really are subjugated, lest they be labelled racist. No, better stick to criticizing western whites, who you can write whatever you want about, without fear of a fatwa.

Muahahaha

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Ireland is screwed up-and the comments from Leo about the case, before it was even decided, show he's a few IQ points short of a plum pudding.

I missed this- did Leo comment on the Belfast case?

Vladimir Poontang

Rose or Tulip? More like Japanese knotweed

Will I Am Not

Can we all just agree that a woman can’t go to Tesco for a few messages without being groped and men just hang around nightclubs with their arses pushed out hoping that some desperate female will give it a pinch?

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

You're speaking of the handful of men you know personally of course, and not men in general - right?

Because you clearly wouldn't have any clue (other than your own prejudiced notions) about the experiences of men "in general". That's a given - right?

I'm also talking about the experiences of men who contribute to threads on women being harassed with their experiences of being harassed by females. None have come even slightly close to the frequency of the harassment the women on the threads have experienced.

The one exception is glass collectors at pubs who seem to get awful harassment.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm also talking about the experiences of men who contribute to threads ...

Well then, seeing as these aren't men you personally know, you are trivialising sexual assault as experienced by some men.

Which is a shame, and terribly sad. No victim of sexual assault should be belittled or their experience trivialised - regardless of gender.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I never dismissed or trivialized sexual assault against males. I said it happens less frequently. It's a bit hypocritical to say I've created a strawman and then to create one yourself.

It's talked about or reported on less frequently. Doesn't mean it hasn't been happening.

It's like the statistics on domestic abuse. In many cases, the male is arrested on the spot simply because public perception is that the male will be the aggressor. Even in cases where the male called the cops themselves or when there are witnesses, (of the male being the actual victim), the police will more often than not take in the male for questioning. Reports of this happening have been kept down for decades and are only recently getting attention.

Society does not encourage men to complain, or report on the behavior of women because we a) don't get any sympathy/belief or we're assumed to be the aggressor/instigator and held responsible.

Just because men aren't crying about being hassled by women doesn't mean it's not happening. It's just that we understand that there's only room for one victim gendertype in this modern society. :rolleyes:

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

Well then, seeing as these aren't men you personally know, you are trivialising sexual assault as experienced by some men.

Which is a shame, and terribly sad. No victim of sexual assault should be belittled or their experience trivialised - regardless of gender.

So the men who contribute to those threads with experiences of their sexual assaults by women are lying and it actually happens to them much more frequently?

That would be very strange as those men are trying to argue that their experiences are the same as those of women. Surely if it was happening to them more often they would say so.

Your arguments make zero sense. You're trying too hard to catch me out.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's talked about or reported on less frequently. Doesn't mean it hasn't been happening.

It's like the statistics on domestic abuse. In many cases, the male is arrested on the spot simply because public perception is that the male will be the aggressor. Even in cases where the male called the cops themselves or when there are witnesses, (of the male being the actual victim), the police will more often than not take in the male for questioning. Reports of this happening have been kept down for decades and are only recently getting attention.

Society does not encourage men to complain, or report on the behavior of women because we a) don't get any sympathy/belief or we're assumed to be the aggressor/instigator and held responsible.

Just because men aren't crying about being hassled by women doesn't mean it's not happening. It's just that we understand that there's only room for one victim gendertype in this modern society. :rolleyes:

That doesn't really apply to me (been groped twice by women), all my friends who are open about these things who have low levels of harassment by women, and the guys who come onto threads about harassment of women by men with their own experiences of being harassed by women. These men would have no reason to lie or minimize their own experiences as the whole point of them posting is to claim they experience similar harassment to women.

professore

Stereotypes are stereotypes because they have a basis in fact. A lot of women do love to complain, especially if there is no solution or if they can blame someone or something else. The gender pay gap is a great one, because unless women stop having children, or get paid more by the state when they take time off to have them, to compensate for the extra career progression men get, or force men to stay home minding kids, by law, there is no solution to it. And even if all of the above was done, then they could complain about not spending enough time with their kids.

My wife was complaining this morning about one of our daughters, some of our customers (we have a business together), her diet, how stressful everything in general was.

All of the issues (except her diet) are issues that affect me equally as much, and in the case of the business, far more.

I looked at the clock when I started, and when she finally finished, it was over an hour later. This is a common occurrence.

And they say men don't listen. It's hardly surprising if you spend over an hour just complaining.

I would say I spent less time than that ALL OF LAST YEAR complaining.

What's the point? Just solve it, change it or put up with it.

py2006

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yes you misunderstood. I was criticising men who think they have the same experiences as women due to one incident of harassment. Women experience this harassment far far far more frequently.

I've had multiple incidents of what (if it happened to a woman) would be called harassment. Even experiencing it as we speak in my current job.

It's banter and funny in their eyes and I'm like most men and are not offended by this but occasionally reminded of the ENORMOUS double standard!

You say women experience far more frequently and you could be right. However, men don't, won't and more often can't highlight/report these instances.

In reality, it is prob far closer to a level playing field.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

Your arguments make zero sense.

That's laughable, good one.

Your argument means nothing. And it's obvious. You're attempting to bolster your prejudice by referencing "experiences of men who contribute to threads" which amounts to nothing.

the_pen_turner

professore wrote: »

Stereotypes are stereotypes because they have a basis in fact. A lot of women do love to complain, especially if there is no solution or if they can blame someone or something else. The gender pay gap is a great one, because unless women stop having children, or get paid more by the state when they take time off to have them, to compensate for the extra career progression men get, or force men to stay home minding kids, by law, there is no solution to it. And even if all of the above was done, then they could complain about not spending enough time with their kids.

My wife was complaining this morning about one of our daughters, some of our customers (we have a business together), her diet, how stressful everything in general was.

All of the issues (except her diet) are issues that affect me equally as much, and in the case of the business, far more.

I looked at the clock when I started, and when she finally finished, it was over an hour later. This is a common occurrence.

And they say men don't listen. It's hardly surprising if you spend over an hour just complaining.

I would say I spent less time than that ALL OF LAST YEAR complaining.

What's the point? Just solve it, change it or put up with it.

:D:D
have you made a note of that post and the time spent on it so you can include it in this years tallies

py2006

To give the doubters context :

In my late teens early twenties you could count on both hands the times I went to night clubs. They weren't my scene. But I had my crotch grabbed, ass slapped/pinched and nipples pinched by women.

If you think I'm alone you are mistaken

Currently in work there is an older woman commenting on the size of my penis. (never has or will see it) and has had herself and another girl shouting to "whip it out" in front of other colleagues. All in the name of fun and I'm moee embarrassed than offended. But do I have a choice?
.

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

That's laughable, good one.

Your argument means nothing. And it's obvious. You're attempting to bolster your prejudice by referencing "experiences of men who contribute to threads" which amounts to nothing.

How does it amount to nothing? Surely their experiences count for something?

drillyeye

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

Rose or Tulip? More like Japanese knotweed

A piece of shyt, by any other name, would smell just as sweet

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

How does it amount to nothing?

...because, as we've established is based entirely on prejudice and sexism.

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

...because, as we've established is based entirely on prejudice and sexism.

No it's based on the reports of men. How is listening to men's experiences prejudiced?

professore

the_pen_turner wrote: »

:D:D
have you made a note of that post and the time spent on it so you can include it in this years tallies

Another difference is that if I complain, I am generally stating a problem and looking for solutions. In her case, if I offer solutions she gets annoyed. She is happiest if I just shut up and listen (or at least pretend to listen) ...

If you based an estimate of the problems we have on the amount we complain, you would assume that her life is an incredible disaster of stress, problems and troubles, whereas mine was plain sailing and easy. In actual fact I face just as many difficulties as she does now our kids are older, I just handle stress better. I think anyway.

Omackeral

LLMMLL wrote: »

So there are differences between the America and Irish prison system. What does that have to do with what were discussing.

Both prison populations supposedly abhor those who commit sexual offenses. According to you this is evidence of there not being a rape culture. Yet in American prisons there is a major issue with male rape. It doesnt matter that it's a different country. If abhorrence of rapists among prisoners was truly a measure of attitudes to rape, surely one would expect those prisoners not to be rapists themselves no matter what the jurisdiction.

Idiots People say we’ve a rape culture in Ireland. I’m discussing Ireland. Simple concept.

Ipso

py2006 wrote: »

To give the doubters context :

In my late teens early twenties you could count on both hands the times I went to night clubs. They weren't my scene. But I had my crotch grabbed, ass slapped/pinched and nipples pinched by women.

If you think I'm alone you are mistaken

Currently in work there is an older woman commenting on the size of my penis. (never has or will see it) and has had herself and another girl shouting to "whip it out" in front of other colleagues. All in the name of fun and I'm moee embarrassed than offended. But do I have a choice?
.

Thanks for mansplaining that, they're obviously just reacting to the patriarchy.

I watched "Asking For It" again after all this ****e with the Paddy Jackson trial and this scene stuck out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaO76M81c_c

Outlaw Pete

"...it actually doesn't follow, but I can see why people would make that mistake..."

A mistake Louise seems happy to continue to make long after that show aired and so basically what that barrister said went in one ear and out the other.

RabbleRouser2k

Muahahaha wrote: »

I missed this- did Leo comment on the Belfast case?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/taoiseachs-jawdropping-interview-linked-rape-trial-with-abortion-referendum-36755344.html

Yep, during the trial-he could very well have risked creating a mistrial.

Deleted User wrote: »

I watched "Asking For It" again after all this ****e with the Paddy Jackson trial and this scene stuck out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaO76M81c_c

I half expect that poor Barrister to bring out puppets next, to try and explain things to poor LONNIE.
You can see she's talking to a wall.