Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Ralf and Florian

anna080 wrote: »

I think she's trolling. Surely nobody could be that much of a gobshlte?

No and yes.

Id love for RTE to commission an interview with her father and any male relatives and see what caused her to have this much disdain for males....It would be fascinating

PeterParker957

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

Id love for RTE to commission an interview with her father and any male relatives and see what caused her to have this much disdain for males....It would be fascinating

She'd block it before your head could start to spin!!

Wibbs

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

Id love for RTE to commission an interview with her father and any male relatives and see what caused her to have this much disdain for males....It would be fascinating

I dunno how informative it would be TBH TD. The seed can grow in all sorts of ways, both good and bad, regardless of the soil that is tilled for it.

I've personally seen that with families I've known. Where there was a solid home life, with good parents on form, where one kid out of a few went AWOL for no obvious reason, or families that were less than healthy and the kids turned out fine. Many scenarios can certainly affect the outcome within families.

In my humble the more oddball stuff wearing the mask of majority thinking we see these days is more about the natural angst of growing up, mixed with some familial issues, or not, but the social environment plays the biggest role.

Anyone with any tendencies to over passionate introspection, even to the point of narcissism is well served by what can appear to be a groundswell of similar minded folk, easily found by a cursory search on Google. As the pro ana sites encourage eating disorders, so the Tumblr/Twitter/Facebook muppets encourage echo chambers of various nonsenses and ego reinforcement just as readily. The worry being that some are seen as more "acceptable" and worthy of promotion than others. Particularly if they get the clicks.

storker

Wibbs wrote: »

"Men need feminism". No, they don't. They need "feminism", a sociopolitical doctrine that lays the blame for all the bad in the world at the feet of men/patriarchy, like they need a hole in the head. It's akin to asking the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia to advise Catholics.

I'm all for feminism as in genuine equality, but that's not what feminism has become. The new feminism isn't interested in equality; it just wants to create a different set of inequalities. If I'm being told that real equality isn't an option and that I can only choose between inequalities, then I'll chose the one that benefits me, because if it's just about a privilege-grab, then why not?

“From now on I'm thinking only of me."

Major Danby replied indulgently with a superior smile: "But, Yossarian, suppose everyone felt that way."

"Then," said Yossarian, "I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way, wouldn't I?”

― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Ralf and Florian

Captain_of the Nan Shan wrote: »

You're just another male feminist, unable or unwillingly to admit that the misogyny in Islam is a far greater threat than anything in the west.

Parts of Europe are becoming unlivable for women. Case in point the parts of Paris where women are invisible,the Muslim dominated areas. And fair play, there were some French feminists fighting that.

I hope women see you 'allies' for what you are, cowards.

And 'where are these feminists that defend cultures that oppress women?' They do so through their silence. Where were the slut walks in Rotherham?

In the case of the sexual assaults on women by muslim refugees in Cologne a couple of years ago and similar cases in Sweden the reaction from the left was either silence or mealy mouthed statements about racism like in the link below.

http://time.com/4182186/sweden-feminists-sexual-assault-refugees/

PeterParker957

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

In the case of the sexual assaults on women by muslim refugees in Cologne a couple of years ago and similar cases in Sweden the reaction from the left was either silence or mealy mouthed statements about racism like in the link below.

http://time.com/4182186/sweden-feminists-sexual-assault-refugees/

+100

Amazing how hordes of men can actually prey on women, committing actual sexual assaults and nothing.

Sky News had a "heart wrenching" story yesterday about the trafficking of women by Rohyngan men. Outrage, prayers, thoughts, what can we do....

Yet when its in Rotherham - silence.

Neither is right but look to yourselves first.

storker

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

In the case of the sexual assaults on women by muslim refugees in Cologne a couple of years ago and similar cases in Sweden the reaction from the left was either silence or mealy mouthed statements...[snip]

Sorry but I can't let that go unchallenged. Una Mullally wrote a piece on it....several days later, granted, but better late than never, I suppose. She was quite forthright in her condemnation, and concluded that the problem was...wait for it...all men. <boggle>

Wibbs

storker wrote: »

She was quite forthright in her condemnation, and concluded that the problem was...wait for it...all men. <boggle>

If you read the Swedish link above that's the conclusion the Swedish "feminists" came to as well. Regardless of the background it was just the usual excuse to say "it's men!". Again the "feminist" credo remains intact: women are always agentless victims and it's always men's fault.

Ulysses Gaze

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

In the case of the sexual assaults on women by muslim refugees in Cologne a couple of years ago and similar cases in Sweden the reaction from the left was either silence or mealy mouthed statements about racism like in the link below.

http://time.com/4182186/sweden-feminists-sexual-assault-refugees/

In the case of Cologne, some feminist groups marched with Pegida in a protest against the New Years Eve Attacks....

....and got Water-Cannoned for their troubles.

If you read the Swedish link above that's the conclusion the Swedish "feminists" came to as well. Regardless of the background it was just the usual excuse to say "it's men!". Again the "feminist" credo remains intact: women are always agentless victims and it's always men's fault.

The problem Wibbs is that Third and Fourth Wave Feminists see only two groups of people.

Victims and Perpetrators.

And if you do not 100% support everything that the victim group believes, you are a perpetrator.

For them, there are no shades of grey. You are either one or the other.

PeterParker957

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

In the case of Cologne, some feminist groups marched with Pegida in a protest against the New Years Eve Attacks....

....and got Water-Cannoned for their troubles.

Really ??? That's nuts!

snotboogie

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

Id love for RTE to commission an interview with her father and any male relatives and see what caused her to have this much disdain for males....It would be fascinating

I seriously doubt there is anything like that in her past. I listened to her Irishman Abroad interview and read a few of her articles and she seems to come from a very normal background. She's just a great wind up merchant, which is different from a troll, she believes the core arguments of what she says but exaggerates and pushes buttons at all the right moments to stir up controversy. She's more of a Lauren Southern than a Katie Hopkins.

storker

Wibbs wrote: »

If you read the Swedish link above that's the conclusion the Swedish "feminists" came to as well. Regardless of the background it was just the usual excuse to say "it's men!". Again the "feminist" credo remains intact: women are always agentless victims and it's always men's fault.

"We want education on gender equality for refugees. But when we demand this, we are countered by other feminist groups who say that when you make this argument, you are supporting anti-immigrant groups."

So, something that would directly support refugee women gets jettisoned because it might indirectly support anti-immigrant groups.

No wonder the latest wave of feminists have also declared war on logic itself...

Widdershins

Oh, is she back? The last I heard of her was when she was complaining about culturally appropriated Halloween costumes. Native American Indians and so on.

You're not allowed to admire anything about a historical character or group because since they happen to have black skin, you are only allowed to feel the pain of their collective history. 'cause that's all there is to black people, apparently. Slavery. American Indians = the pain of colonialisation. According to her anyway

storker

Widdershins wrote: »

Oh, is she back? The last I heard of her was when she was complaining about culturally appropriated Halloween costumes. Native American Indians and so on.

You're not allowed to admire anything about a historical character or group because since they happen to have black skin, you are only allowed to feel the pain of their collective history. 'cause that's all there is to black people, apparently. Slavery. American Indians = the pain of colonialisation. According to her anyway

I guess we have to stop eating potatoes. "Cancel that order of chips!"

That cultural appropriation malarkey is such BS. This history of humanity is one of cultural appropriation. People see things that work, look nice, improve things, etc and decide to use them too. It's a compliment, for crying out loud.

Let's stop white kids from listening to rap music too. Actually, yes let's, seriously but because it's sh1te. Or is that a racist comment now...?

PeterParker957

storker wrote: »

I guess we have to stop eating potatoes. "Cancel that order of chips!"

That cultural appropriation malarkey is such BS. This history of humanity is one of cultural appropriation. People see things that work, look nice, improve things, etc and decide to use them too. It's a compliment, for crying out loud.

Let's stop white kids from listening to rap music too. Actually, yes let's, seriously but because it's sh1te. Or is that a racist comment now...?

I'm reliable informed it is because it's their way of expressing how they feel about their mistreatment and to denigrate it is to minimise their struggle.

Or some such ****e like that!!!

Will I Am Not

My primary school teacher coloured my face brown to play a wise man in the school nativity play.
#imsorry

I'm trying to infiltrate the cultural appropriation fearing feminists to have them cancel Halloween as it's the appropriation of a pagan Irish religious festival.

I've been meeting deaf ears so far, they seem to enjoy dressing in lingerie then daring men to look at them too much!

PeterParker957

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

My primary school teacher coloured my face brown to play a wise man in the school nativity play.
#imsorry

When the Wayans Brothers are done for "whiteface" then I"ll take ****e like cultural appropriation seriously.

Outlaw Pete

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

....what caused her to have this much disdain for males....

Well, long story short: Louise had a couple of negative experiences with guys growing up, along also with some health issues which she struggled with for well over a decade and indeed at some level I'm sure still does. Her turning point appears to have come when at a really low point (whilst working for Elle magazine in New York) she met a therapist who helped her. While it's of course cool that she helped Louise, and genuinely hope she doesn't ever feel that low again, the downside is that the therapist was a feminist and it would appear that part of her recovery involved adopting a third wave feminist mindset.

All just my opinion of course but here are some extracts from a few interviews which perhaps explain why I arrived at that view:

"I was walking down St Patrick's Street in Cork, wearing a vest top, because it was summer. You know when you're that age, you're not conscious of your body in that way. I just remember these guys walking past and one of them brushed his hand against my breast and said, 'Oh look at the t*** on that'. And I was 12. I was a child. I think it was the first time I had this sense of 'Oh I'm not actually a human being, I'm a 'that', I'm a collection of body parts'. And they can be touched without my consent."

"I had had anorexia and bulimia as a teenager.

"When I was 18, I was sexually assaulted. I couldn't quite piece together what had happened, so I just put it in the back of my mind. When I got older, I was telling my therapist the story, and she said, 'You know, you didn't give consent in that situation.' I was like, 'I don't really understand what you're saying.' It just wasn't even a conversation I was used to having."

Then 21, she became a residential patient in Saint John of God Hospital. "It doesn't define me because most of the time I don't think about it. But three months in this hospital environment, I cannot explain the experience of that. The middle of the night, people coming in with torches to shine in your face. Other people in the ward trying to escape from their room.

"At Christmas I remember they put up the trees and had Christmas music, and it was just the most depressing thing. I drank a litre of water before they weighed me, because I was like 'please just let me home for Christmas." Her friends were a wonderful support but also a reminder of all she was missing.

"There was never one day that people didn't visit. They'd be talking about boys or what they'd done that Saturday night, and it was just this horrible feeling of, they'd leave, and I'd go to bed, and be like 'I'm 21, this is not supposed to be my life'."

I had a massive relapse with anorexia while I was working in Elle, and then I started seeing a really good therapist. She was a really strong feminist, and tried to get me to understand how my idea of my place in the world as a woman, and my idea of what my body should look like, was playing into the fact that I'd had an eating disorder."

It was a "feminist awakening" that would go on to inform all her work from that point.

I wasn’t sure what to do when I came home. I decided to take a year out and said this is it, I’m going to write, now or never. Having taken the year off I felt I had to give it 100%. I became like a hermit, just me and my laptop and my book. I was able to write full time, five hours a day, six or seven days a week.

Writing Only Ever Yours was cathartic. The process of going back to it day after day, working through it and letting it come, forced me to face my greatest fears of not being good enough, or not doing something perfectly. I started in March 2012 and had a draft by the end of August.

While I feel eating disorders are normalised in the world of the story, I would hope that the reader realises that my intention was to highlight how seductive dieting can be, and how dangerous it can be to be seduced by that. The School uses weight as another tool with which to control the girls, the same way that the ‘Beauty Myth’ is used in a patriarchal society to manipulate and oppress women.

The Pheasant2

The L&H in UCD are having this dope as a speaker this week, describing her as "one of Ireland's most talented writers" (bollocks).

Good to see she's being given a platform to spread her absolute nonsense to our students

Omackeral

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

My primary school teacher coloured my face brown to play a wise man in the school nativity play.
#imsorry

#MeToo

PeterParker957

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, long story short: Louise had a couple of negative experiences with guys growing up, along also with some health issues which she struggled with for well over a decade and indeed at some level I'm sure still does. Her turning point appears to have come when at a really low point (whilst working for Elle magazine in New York) she met a therapist who helped her. While it's of course cool that she helped Louise, and genuinely hope she doesn't ever feel that low again, the downside is that the therapist was a feminist and it would appear that part of her recovery involved adopting a third wave feminist mindset.

All just my opinion of course but here are some extracts from a few interviews which perhaps explain why I arrived at that view:

Dear God I think I hate her even more after reading that garbage!!

cantdecide

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

My primary school teacher coloured my face brown to play a wise man in the school nativity play.
#imsorry

They could have re-enacted The Life of Brian but that would involve culturally appropriating British accents... maybe the face paint was the wiser choice.

Outlaw Pete

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Dear God I think I hate her even more after reading that garbage!!

I'd be of the opposite view.

Becoming aware of those aspects of her life made me understand how and why she has come to hold the views she does. I hate what she thinks, but I don't hate her.

givyjoe

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

I'd be of the opposite view.

Becoming aware of those aspects of her life made me understand how and why she has come to hold the views she does. I hate what she thinks, but I don't hate her.

I wouldn't say hate, but I'd be far less forgiving. She is still an adult after all and should be able to at least step back from her bias, but then again I'm making the increasingly giant leap that she's a rational adult.

ZeroThreat

What an air-headed, attention seeking annoying twat this woman seems, and up until this thread, I'd never heard of her!

Widdershins

I have a lot of sympathy for her after reading the above history. It at least explains where her mindset comes from.

Widdershins

Widdershins wrote: »

I have a lot of sympathy for her after reading the above history. It at least explains where her mindset comes from.

You’d think a friend/family member have a word with her or her feminist therapist should be questioned on the unhealthy dislike of men/brand of feminism she’s installed in Lon

Widdershins

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

You’d think a friend/family member have a word with her or her feminist therapist should be questioned on the unhealthy dislike of men/brand of feminism she’s installed in Lon

TBH I don't know that the therapist deliberately planted that seed. LON may have taken a small suggestion or idea and gone wild with it. And there is some truth to it IMO. It's only now that we are seeing more regular shaped fashion models and more of a variety of body shapes on magazine covers for girls and women. These forms of media are kind of aspirational and influential and would leave an impression on women who might be susceptible to eating disorders etc. It is very hard to treat anorexic patients and it does not seem like the wrong idea to remind them that there are different concepts of beauty. Anorexics may be inclined to go to extremes with things other than their diet. IMO. I do think what society puts out there and allows to be put out there for impressionable young girls is part of the problem of eating disorders and low self esteem. It does not seem like men are to blame for this, though.

um7y1h83ge06nx

I think she should be getting the help she needs for sure but giving her a public platform is not a good idea as she could be negatively impacting the outlook of a new generation of young people. Spreading hate and fear should never be encouraged despite the person's mental health issues.

Mr. Incognito

I think the best way of dealing with people like this is simply to ignore them

Trump/ Katie Hopkins/ Louise O Neill.

Everything is me, me, me, me, me, me

Just unfollow/ ignore/ dont respond.

She's probably at home fapping to this thread.

Wibbs

Widdershins wrote: »

TBH I don't know that the therapist deliberately planted that seed. LON may have taken a small suggestion or idea and gone wild with it.

This. I've seen something very similar in somebody I knew years ago. They struggled with mental anguish for years and various treatments weren't working for them. Then they found God and that was the magic bullet for them and it did work. Which is great, whatever gets you through the night IMHO. However, like all new converts to any belief system they were very fervent and because this was the lifeline that worked, all of their subsequent life experiences, bad and good, have been filtered through their religious worldview. Understandably so, as it was what saved them and it makes perfectly logical personal sense to continue to filter the world through the thing that saved you. Swap whatever ism(feminism in this case) for religion and again it makes sense.

And there is some truth to it IMO. It's only now that we are seeing more regular shaped fashion models and more of a variety of body shapes on magazine covers for girls and women. These forms of media are kind of aspirational and influential and would leave an impression on women who might be susceptible to eating disorders etc.

Aye and having someone already vulnerable to that working within the fashion industry itself was the perfect storm of an unhealthy environment. Hard to say if there's a chicken and egg thing going on. Would getting into fashion as a career attract such folks, or are such folks damaged by getting into fashion as a career.

It does not seem like men are to blame for this, though.

On the beauty ideal promoted by the fashion industry men(at least straight men) would figure in the small minority of influencers. Pick up any copy of Vogue or Cosmo or whatever and look at the writing and editorial staff and you'll find vanishingly few men. The images of female beauty are also usually well out of kilter with what men would be attracted to. The range of female beauty is very narrow by comparison. Your average man in need of some *ahem* self relief... is going to be at the desperate run outa fap material stage to turn to Vogue for "inspiration".

Hell, porn, which is largely produced by and promoted to and consumed by men would produce more variability in women's size, shape, age, colour in a week than Vogue has produced since its inception(and with an obvious lack of "skinny catwalk model" porn). This "plus sized" and "real women" model stuff is just more bandwagoning, lip service and basic economics and just adds more beauty ideal pressures with it. Are you the right "plus size", the right "real"?

Fashion is largely produced by and promoted to and consumed by women. As are the gossip and celeb mags and sites which on one page will laud tanorexic starlet A for having a "beach ready body"(whatever the fcuk that means), while on the next page will show blown up unphotoshopped pics of the same tanorexic starlet A's cellulite. No wonder their audiences are confused and kept in a low level state of body image paranoia. Which is good for business. Keep your audience in a state of body paranoia that the new fashion/cream/treatment/diet can "cure" and keep those greasy tills ringing.

Saruhashi

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I think the best way of dealing with people like this is simply to ignore them

Trump/ Katie Hopkins/ Louise O Neill.

Everything is me, me, me, me, me, me

Just unfollow/ ignore/ dont respond.

She's probably at home fapping to this thread.

They are given a platform because they are assholes and the people in charge of the platform fully know this.

Nobody is paying Hopkins or O'Neill to write an article because they make good points. They are getting paid because the controversy they generate from being ignorant buffoons brings in an audience.

Even a thread like this. It doesn't exist because LON is a deep thinker who makes excellent points. It exists because she is a giant eejit who's opinions are utterly without merit.

A kind reaction might be "I like her books but her articles are terrible" or "she's just repeating American culture talking points" but there's hardly anyone out there who actually thinks she is spot on with everything.

Watching people destroy her arguments and call her names is part of the "entertainment" here.

That's why she is given a platform. People will say "have you seen what this eejit is saying in the examiner" and other folks will go off and have a look then they'll come back here and have a good chuckle at people absolutely demolishing her arguments. The people paying her to write the articles already know this.

It's impossible to ignore because the arguments are so bad but there is no way to respond directly. This riles people up. Anyone who wants to dispute the points is not allowed the same platform. This gets people going absolutely crazy and then they want to know what she's gonna come up with next. That kind of attention usually translates into more money. Again, the people paying her to write the articles already know this.

retro:electro

Her background makes me understand her a behaviour a bit more but it doesn't exuse it. She has just replaced the hate and dissatisfaction she had for her body, with hate and frustration for the straight white male. Only thing is there's no clinic or treatment centre she can go to to rid her of her disdain. Quite the opposite actually. She has the clinic of social media ready and willing to indulge her and pat her ideas on the back in the form of likes and retweets which only encourage her disordered thoughts.

PeterParker957

anna080 wrote: »

Her background makes me understand her a behaviour a bit more but it doesn't exuse it. She has just replaced the hate and dissatisfaction she had for her body, with hate and frustration for the straight white male. Only thing is there's no clinic or treatment centre she can go to to rid her of her disdain. Quite the opposite actually. She has the clinic of social media ready and willing to indulge her and pat her ideas on the back in the form of likes and retweets which only encourage her disordered thoughts.

Do you think she gets the same validation from RTs and likes etc as an anorexic would from being told "you look thin ?"

I've worked with students for many years and they report that ANY recognition is a good thing - even if it is negative.

timmy880

Do you think she gets the same validation from RTs and likes etc as an anorexic would from being told "you look thin ?"

I've worked with students for many years and they report that ANY recognition is a good thing - even if it is negative.

It's been proven that you get a hit of Dopamine when you get likes/shares on social media. It's the same hit you get when you have sex/gamble/drink etc. and is highly addictive. So if she does get validation from RTs and likes it's not abnormal. But for LON it just comes across as outrageous joy of being able to bash males and even when she's trying to make valid and relevant points, she strays off track and goes back to the male hatred.

Ralf and Florian

Brags about the fact her mother drives her from Cork to Dublin and back. @sshole.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/938174042443526145

Ralf and Florian

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Brags about the fact her mother drives her from Cork to Dublin and back. @sshole.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/938174042443526145

In her mid 30s and been driven around by her parents still -ffs a great example of how kids have been mollycoddled with ‘everyone’s special/gets a medal’....

razorblunt

Does she have a pre-summer rant about the "Sweat -a la la long" song? Or is it just Xmas outrage?

Now you guys are looking for something to be outraged by

professore

Dakota Brave Carrot wrote: »

Widdershins wrote: »

I have a lot of sympathy for her after reading the above history. It at least explains where her mindset comes from.

You’d think a friend/family member have a word with her or her feminist therapist should be questioned on the unhealthy dislike of men/brand of feminism she’s installed in Lon

There is no difference whatsoever in this brand of feminism and the red pill stuff that's popular in certain sites like Reddit except the redpill stuff is not on national TV and media every day.

darkdubh

The comment about her mother driving her up and down to Dublin got 35 likes

razorblunt

Deleted User wrote: »

Now you guys are looking for something to be outraged by

A bit like LON really.

PeterParker957

Ralf and Florian wrote: »

Brags about the fact her mother drives her from Cork to Dublin and back. @sshole.

https://twitter.com/oneilllo/status/938174042443526145

Just when you think you can't hate someone more!!!!!!!

Ulysses Gaze

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Just when you think you can't hate someone more!!!!!!!

Life's too short for hate.

RayM

razorblunt wrote: »

Does she have a pre-summer rant about the "Sweat -a la la long" song? Or is it just Xmas outrage?

Don't push it.

PeterParker957

RayM wrote: »

razorblunt wrote: »

Does she have a pre-summer rant about the "Sweat -a la la long" song? Or is it just Xmas outrage?

Don't push it.

As long as no one pushes it some more....

darkdubh

darkdubh wrote: »

The comment about her mother driving her up and down to Dublin got 35 likes

Era she has around that amount of psychopaths who hang off her every word and praise her - could be worse - could be more dopes believing her nonsense

She’s an 30 odd year old teenager

Widdershins

professore wrote: »

There is no difference whatsoever in this brand of feminism and the red pill stuff that's popular in certain sites like Reddit except the redpill stuff is not on national TV and media every day.

I have no idea what that means.