Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

Comical fudging of an answer. An even more simple question, do you believe any of her views are sexist?

They possibly are. But sexist views don't make someone insane. Otherwise there's a lot of insane people out there who have had sexist views on women.

kumate_champ07

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't claim to be an expert (PhD level). I've done undergraduate and postgraduate courses in abnormal psychology

where?

py2006

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yeah because those are the only two options. "I disagree with this person but I'm too honourable to call them a name. I'll just say they're crazy".

You're limiting the options, not me.

Do you refer to all those with a mental illness as crazy?

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

They possibly are. But sexist views don't make someone insane. Otherwise there's a lot of insane people out there who have had sexist views on women.

Possibly are?! I mean, will you burst into flames if you 'criticise' her?!

Except quite often sexist views, or other such undesirable notions are result from experiences and interactions in someones past. If there was some traumatic event, that contributed to her warped towards men, then maybe we could understand and sympatise. As it is, there is no reason (we know of) for her posting the bile she does directed towards men.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Do you have any social/political beliefs?

I may have had in the past, but on seeing the power of ideology, and what is done by those with it, and by it,and how to leads to people refusing to question their beliefs, I'd be a lot more circumspect in that regard now..

This is another example of that like..of course, no one wants to oppress women, but you cant question the likes of Louise at all, even when what she's coming out with is obviously imported nonsense..

Wibbs

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

The main disagreement I'd have with most people on here is that she isn't some kind of extremist, just someone who has views that differ from theirs. It's an argument that tends to go round in circles though, because of how some people perceive her views.

From just one article, on the "alleged UCD Facebook incident". That never happened, but anyway...

"I read it, about the male students who have allegedly created a Facebook group in which to exchange explicit photos of girls they have had sex with and rate them. I sit there in stunned silence for minutes, hours, days. I get up, then sit back down then get up and scream; it is guttural, visceral, this scream is coming from some part of myself that I never even knew existed."

Do you really consider that a moderate response?

"I try and reason with them. I am wasting my time. I go to bed and I cannot sleep. I am tired, so very tired. I have never felt this alone. With the paranoia that the night can bring I start to think of all the men that I have known. I think of when I was three, cuddling into my Granddad Murphy’s lap as he stroked my hair and told me I was the best girl and I wonder did he really think that, or did he secretly hate women too? I think of my uncles and my male cousins and my male friends and how kind they all seem, and I begin to fear that their smiles might hide their sneers, that they might think I’m a stupid bitch who needs to stop complaining. I think of my ex-boyfriends, how I stood naked before them and I wonder if they thought my body was something to be talked about with their friends, if they too thought female sexuality was something to be laughed at."

Do you think that is a moderate response in a national newspaper(or what one would expect from a teen in a school paper) ?

Do you think her oft trotted out secondhand third wave feminist beliefs of the toxic masculinity, women can't be sexist, misogyny being quite literally everywhere, the patriarchy, rape culture, to the degree where she actually suggested there are parallels between The Handmaid's Tale and modern Ireland are moderate?

Madam, I would respectfully suggest that we clearly have very different definitions of moderate.

She is an ideologue. An ideological worldview is very seductive, especially if it comes along as a lifeboat in a time of upheaval. It fulfills the human need for belonging to a group of like minded individuals, it fulfills the human need for recognition within that group the more public one’s allegiances are to the ideology and it fulfils the human need for a credo of easy answers in the face of a nuanced reality.

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

Possibly are?! I mean, will you burst into flames if you 'criticise' her?!

Except quite often sexist views, or other such undesirable notions are result from experiences and interactions in someones past. If there was some traumatic event, that contributed to her warped towards men, then maybe we could understand and sympatise. As it is, there is no reason (we know of) for her posting the bile she does directed towards men.

Exactly. You don't know any reason why she holds her views. In that case it's not reasonable to make up a mental illness for her. Or to insinuate that the metal illness she says she has that has no link to political beliefs is the reason for her beliefs.

py2006

Tldr? Don't criticise a woman, don't criticise a feminist. You must remain silent. A womans view can never be extreme or misandrist.

Ssshhhh men!

*close thread








Ffs

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I may have had in the past, but on seeing the power of ideology, and what is done by those with it, and by it,and how to leads to people refusing to question their beliefs, I'd be a lot more circumspect in that regard now..

This is another example of that like..of course, no one wants to oppress women, but you cant question the likes of Louise at all, even when what she's coming out with is obviously imported nonsense..

Was it a mental illness that influenced those beliefs? A traumatic incident in your past?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

Was it a mental illness that influenced those beliefs? A traumatic incident in your past?

That's a distinct possibility..

Will I Am Not

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

He's right-wing and he was clearly trolling. Report my post though, please, rather than arguing about it with me.

I wouldn’t report your post. Some people close their accounts in a hissy fit when they get a yellow card. Wouldn’t want that happening anyone.

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

Exactly. You don't know any reason why she holds her views. In that case it's not reasonable to make up a mental illness for her. Or to insinuate that the metal illness she says she has that has no link to political beliefs is the reason for her beliefs.

Just so we're all clear about your motivations for posting here, you're a LON 'supporter' and you see nothing wrong with any of her views or comments, both are correct or neither? I.e. you don't support her and DO see something wrong, with the crap she posts? Should be fairly easy to answer.

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

Just so we're all clear about your motivations for posting here, you're a LON 'supporter' and you see nothing wrong with any of her views or comments, both are correct or neither? I.e. you don't support her and DO see something wrong, with the crap she posts? Should be fairly easy to answer.

My main motivation was dropping into this thread a few times and seeing what a cesspit of nonsense it was. That's all the motivation I need.

It's a similar motivation to when I criticised the crap going on in the Trevor deeley thread.

py2006

LLMMLL wrote: »

My main motivation was dropping into this thread a few times and seeing what a cesspit of nonsense it was. That's all the motivation I need.

It's a similar motivation to when I criticised the crap going on in the Trevor deeley thread.

Oh the irony

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

My main motivation was dropping into this thread a few times and seeing what a cesspit of nonsense it was. That's all the motivation I need.

It's a similar motivation to when I criticised the crap going on in the Trevor deeley thread.

So you support Louise and/or see nothing wrong with her views relating to men. Thanks for confirming.

You'd do well in politics, specifically the trump administration, with those question dodging abilities.

mzungu

givyjoe wrote: »

So you support Louise and/or see nothing wrong with her views relating to men. Thanks for confirming.

You'd do well in politics, specifically the trump administration, with those question dodging abilities.

Do you have a response to my question earlier in the thread?

You say that it (mental health) is a possible explanation for her "baseless views" but could the same be said for repeating that she said the "all men are potential rapists" line? That is also baseless, so would I be within my rights to question the mental health of anybody that repeats it?* That's what happens when you go along the line of equating mental health issues with opinions you don't like.

*As I stated before, I used to believe that was what she said, and more than likely made posts to that effect. I have since come to believe it was a Mandela Effect thing.

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

You're moving onto a whole new topic now. And because I don't think the far-right are the 'victims' you portray them as, I can't think of any way of responding to your post that won't result in having to witness the highly unedifying spectacle of you defending racists. I think we should agree to disagree.

Ah yes when all else fails and your out of your depth, run for the hills and cry racism. :rolleyes:
You and your ilk are beyond pathetic. No logical counterargument so? White flag time?

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

My main motivation was dropping into this thread a few times and seeing what a cesspit of nonsense it was. That's all the motivation I need.

It's a similar motivation to when I criticised the crap going on in the Trevor deeley thread.

It quickly became a cesspit of nonsense when you made an illogical contribution along with the other two.

Motivation??? Jesus wept

The_Kew_Tour

It's bit ironic that quiet few people who don't care who asking to leave her alone are top of posts counts here.

The_Kew_Tour

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

It's bit ironic that quiet few people who don't care who asking to leave her alone are top of posts counts here.

Welcome to the weird and wacky world of the far PC left where clocks go anti clockwise, people walk backwards, devolve, and talk utter b*llocks

givyjoe

mzungu wrote: »

Do you have a response to my question earlier in the thread?

Wtf are you on about?

mzungu

givyjoe wrote: »

Wtf are you on about?

You said LON's "baseless views" were as a result of her mental health issues. However, you stated she thought "all men were rapists" and that "all men were potential rapists." We are now pretty certain she never said any of the above, and most likely she does not think that either. Therefore your assertion that she said/believes those things are in fact "baseless." Therefore, is it ok for me to question your mental health as you also repeated "baseless views?"

The Mandela Effect is in action, lots of stuff is being attributed to her that she never said. I believed that she said that "all men are rapists" / "all men are potential rapists" but she in fact never did. It was attributed to her incorrectly.

givyjoe

mzungu wrote: »

You said LON's "baseless views" were as a result of her mental health issues. However, you stated she thought "all men were rapists" and that "all men were potential rapists." We are now pretty certain she never said any of the above, and most likely she does not think that either. Therefore your assertion that she said/believes those things are in fact "baseless." Therefore, is it ok for me to question your mental health as you also repeated "baseless views?"

I stopped reading after you stated I had said her views were a result of her mental illness. Don't bother quoting me if you're either not going to read what I said or completely fabricate. I posed the question is it possible it's a factor in her world views.

I'm merely commenting on things she has actually said or written. Simple really. Seems to have gone over your head though.

Yer Da sells Avon

Wibbs wrote: »

From just one article, on the "alleged UCD Facebook incident". That never happened, but anyway...

"I read it, about the male students who have allegedly created a Facebook group in which to exchange explicit photos of girls they have had sex with and rate them. I sit there in stunned silence for minutes, hours, days. I get up, then sit back down then get up and scream; it is guttural, visceral, this scream is coming from some part of myself that I never even knew existed."

Do you really consider that a moderate response?

I was in UCD around that time and I'm quite certain that it did happen (although maybe not quite as extreme as was reported), and that UCD's investigation was useless, rushed and hampered by the fact that no members of the (private) Facebook group were prepared to publicly come forward. A similar (albeit non-private) group had been found the year before (the then SU president had been a member), so it's not like this kind of thing was unprecedented.

I don't consider it a moderate response. But then, I got an electric shock when I was getting out of my car last week in a multistory car park, and involuntarily shouted the name of our blessed Lord and saviour Jesus Christ, except replacing the 'Christ' part with the c-word, so I'm in no position to criticise other people for their disproportionate responses.

Wibbs wrote:

"I try and reason with them. I am wasting my time. I go to bed and I cannot sleep. I am tired, so very tired. I have never felt this alone. With the paranoia that the night can bring I start to think of all the men that I have known. I think of when I was three, cuddling into my Granddad Murphy’s lap as he stroked my hair and told me I was the best girl and I wonder did he really think that, or did he secretly hate women too? I think of my uncles and my male cousins and my male friends and how kind they all seem, and I begin to fear that their smiles might hide their sneers, that they might think I’m a stupid bitch who needs to stop complaining. I think of my ex-boyfriends, how I stood naked before them and I wonder if they thought my body was something to be talked about with their friends, if they too thought female sexuality was something to be laughed at."

Do you think that is a moderate response in a national newspaper(or what one would expect from a teen in a school paper) ?

She acknowledges the fact that the questions she's posing stem from paranoia, so I don't see anything wrong with it at all. Especially considering the fact that men who seem 'woke' and 'liberal' are absolutely not less likely to carry out sexual assaults. I can't believe I'm using this as an example, but as a troll suggested earlier in this thread, maybe I'm 'defending' her because I see the nice-guy act as a means to an end. That end, of course, being getting my end away.

Yer Da sells Avon

Will I Am Not wrote: »

I wouldn’t report your post. Some people close their accounts in a hissy fit when they get a yellow card. Wouldn’t want that happening anyone.

Oh, you!

Outlaw Pete

retro:electro wrote: »

Thread is absolutely ridiculous at this point.

mzungu wrote: »

Aye, it ran its course many moons ago.

mzungu

givyjoe wrote: »

I stopped reading after you stated I had said her views were a result of her mental illness. Don't bother quoting me if you're either not going to read what I said or completely fabricate. I posed the question is it possible it's a factor in her world views.

Actually, that's fair enough. My bad there. You never said they were a result of, however you implied they contribute to them.

givyjoe wrote: »

I'm merely commenting on things she has actually said or written. Simple really. Seems to have gone over your head though.

Not exactly true.

givyjoe wrote:

She specifically said, all men are potential rapists

We know she didn't say the above. So you are commenting on things you believe she said, but in reality she didn't. If you are going to hold yourself to the same standards you apply for her, then people would be within their rights to wonder are mental health problems a factor in what you post.

The question remains the same, as you are were also repeating "baseless views" (as you accused her of doing), are mental health issues a factor in your world view?

Wibbs

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

I can't believe I'm using this as an example, but as a troll suggested earlier in this thread, maybe I'm 'defending' her because I see the nice-guy act as a means to an end.

No need to worry about me then as I'm a thundering prick...

givyjoe

mzungu wrote: »

Actually, that's fair enough. My bad there. You never said they were a result of, however you implied they contribute to them.

Not exactly true.

We know she didn't say the above. So you are commenting on things you believe she said, but in reality she didn't. If you are going to hold yourself to the same standards you apply for her, then people would be within their rights to wonder are mental health problems a factor in what you post.

The question remains the same, as you are were also repeating "baseless views" (as you accused her of doing), are mental health issues a factor in your world view?

Again, I didn't imply anything, i specifically stated when clarifying my logic that it's possible that it was contributing to her warped views. Would you care to speculate as to what could possibly have contributed to the MANY bizarre statements she's made? At this point it feels like we need a sticky to remind everyone of the long list of sh1t

Sorry, what do you mean 'we' know she didn't say it? Who 'knows' this? I said repeatedly earlier in the thread that I believed it was in the documentary but could be mistaken, I'm not mistaken about those views coming from her however. It is literally the reason I 'took note' of her.

Men need to.be taught not to rape through consent classes.
Women can't be sexist towards men
Re-watch the Tommy tiernan interview for her jaw dropping.views on how consent is meant to work
Someone else can probably jump in with a much longer list of crap she with direct links to the statements, or just go have a read of.her Twitter profile.