Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

freshpopcorn

2smiggy wrote: »

I seen at dinner time she is advertised to be on the show with daithi o'shea (what ever it's called) today for anyone interested

Is she going to be a Rose of Tralee this year?

2smiggy

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Is she going to be a Rose of Tralee this year?

looking for a good husband no doubt !!

Jim Bob Scratcher

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Is she going to be a Rose of Tralee this year?

With a face like the back of a bus? I highly doubt it.

2smiggy

Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »

With a face like the back of a bus? I highly doubt it.

what ever about her beliefs and attitude, she's a pretty girl IMO

Jim Bob Scratcher

2smiggy wrote: »

what ever about her beliefs and attitude, she's a pretty girl IMO

Get some glasses

LLMMLL

Omackeral wrote: »

Fine. Here's some real life proof. Spoke of it before on another thread but here goes anyway. I work in a prison. I work with actual and factual scumbags day in and day out. They are what a lot of people would consider lowlifes. So imagine how morally deplorable a rapist must be in society if society’s rejects absolutely abhor them and won’t mix with them. They long to carve them up and boil sugary water to destroy their skin with. It’s that extreme, that a separate prison is needed for sex offenders, never mind a separate wing. A whole different building is warranted for these dirt bags such is the bile directed at them. So you have the lowest of the low.... about 300 feet of crap... and then the sex offenders. Everyone rejects these scum. Rape is abhorred by every facet of decent society and, tellingly, indecent society ergo it is not widespread whatsoever.

In America the same attitude towards rapists in prisons exist, yet male rape in prisons is relatively common. So is this evidence of a lack of a rape culture in America as prisoners claim to hate rapists or is it evidence of rape culture in America as rape is a fact of life wihin prisons?

Also how do you explain the 2009 story in Kerry of a queue of people forming to shake a convicted rapists hand in court?

The fact is your prison argument is not proof of a lack of a rape culture. It may be evidence towards the lack of rape culture.

Equally, LON cannot "prove" a rape culture exists. All she can do is offer evidence which you're free to evaluate and criticize, just as she can criticize yours.

But expecting "proof" either way about a social theory is ridiculous.

LLMMLL

wakka12 wrote: »

Doesnt work that way, accusatory/aggressive remarks are the ones that need to be backed up in the first place.

Saying certain behaviours are consigned to a minority of men is a statement that must be equally backed up.

If someone claims a majority of men have black hair, do they have to prove it more than someone who claims a minority of men have black hair? They are both making claims.

The only person who has nothing to prove or back up with evidence is someone who says "I don't know if it's a majority or minority".

meeeeh

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Oh dear sweet...LON, is that you? Are you trying to sell your books on this site? Can I get a sponsorship deal? I can photoshop in famous people reading your books...

Yeah, the church covered up so much because they were seen as 'judge, jury and executioner' in this land-programs were banned or reviled because the sh!te they pulled.
And now nobody bar the middling less than 30 percent go to mass-it's been absolutely decimated since then.
So damage was done-courtcases were founded, and if a priest comes out and condemns a program, he's laughed at.

The listowel case-it wasn't because he had raped anyone. If it had been an assault (a physical beating), they'd have turned up there too. And everyone was appalled by that, and the priest who went there too-further signs of how the church has lost respect.
Those people who shook his hand were scorned and mocked for their idiocy. You couldn't find 50 people to shake one of those people's hands.

But go further up the country-when Tim Allen's wife Darina stood by her paedophile husband Tim, in court, as he was convicted of possession of child pornography. What happened to Darina? Oh, she got a show with RTE (Which they tried to defend in the most ridiculous way possible) And people walked up to her, and hugged her, at farmer's markets.
Her husband paid for images of children being molested and raped-and she was the victim?
Is that rape culture too?

Maybe you are onto something, maybe it's just the good old middle class who get away with it.

Btw child abuse on Church was not covered up just by Church, it would be very naive to think non church people also didn't look away.

As for Listowel case, it was claimed that rape has special status as particularly bad crime. So how is speculating about reaction to other crimes relevant except if you want to excuse the behaviour.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

Saying certain behaviours are consigned to a minority of men is a statement that must be equally backed up...

Depends really.

The vast majority of people would except certain sane things at face value - for example, suggesting that men tend to be more aggressive than women, would generally not require links to peer reviewed studies.
A normal person would accept this because a normal person would have real life experience of the same point.

However suggesting batsh1t crazy drivel like "rape culture" in Ireland, or that all men are rapists, would be rightly challenged. Normal sane people wouldn't assert these things as normal sane people live in the real world were their experience will inform them to the contrary.

the purple tin

Is Louise O'Neill the rose or tulip of clonakility?
A prize pudding :P

There's some joke here about clonakility sausages and Louise having issues with them but I cant formulate it..

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

Depends really.

The vast majority of people would except certain sane things at face value - for example, suggesting that men tend to be more aggressive than women, would generally not require links to peer reviewed studies.
A normal person would accept this because a normal person would have real life experience of the same point.

However suggesting batsh1t crazy drivel like "rape culture" in Ireland, or that all men are rapists, would be rightly challenged. Normal sane people wouldn't assert these things as normal sane people live in the real world were their experience will inform them to the contrary.

Except were not talking about whether all men are rapists or not. The post in question was talking about "unacceptable behavior" such as groping on a night out or invading personal space. Given what I've seen on nights out then yes, the claim that it's a minority does need to backed up.

I agree that peer reviewed studies aren't going to help here though. If we go by reports of women then the response will be "it's a small number of men behaving this way to a large number of women". And I highly doubt men self-reporting their own bad behaviour is likely.

Which brings me back to my basic point. Nobody will be able to prove or disprove the idea these behaviours being a minority of majority. The most thing people can do is evaluate evidence and form an opinion.

freshpopcorn

Deleted User wrote: »

There's some joke here about clonakility sausages and Louise having issues with them but I cant formulate it..

I think her dad is a butcher going by what I read on this thread. So, I doubt she'd support the competition!

super_furry

Jaysus, some serious obsessions going on in here about a poor journalist who everyone claims not to care about.

kunst nugget

meeeeh wrote: »

Anyway is this and example of crime being abhorred by every facet of decent society.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/the-sex-case-that-divided-a-town-and-shocked-a-watching-nation-26593097.html

This is from the county that keeps voting in the Healy-Raes… There's something beyond fúcked up about down there. They must be all high on pixie dust.

Hande hoche!

Deleted User wrote: »

There's some joke here about clonakility sausages and Louise having issues with them but I cant formulate it..

There's actually a brand of sausages called the butcher's daughter.

RabbleRouser2k

meeeeh wrote: »

Maybe you are onto something, maybe it's just the good old middle class who get away with it.

Btw child abuse on Church was not covered up just by Church, it would be very naive to think non church people also didn't look away.

As for Listowel case, it was claimed that rape has special status as particularly bad crime. So how is speculating about reaction to other crimes relevant except if you want to excuse the behaviour.

Nope-some rich dude was caught trying to rape a young woman. He went to prison, but may have had to flee the country due to the hatred he suffered after coming out of jail.

Yes-happened in jewish synagogues, Protestant churches and orphanages as well as Catholic ones. According to Colm O'Gorman, people joked about FR Sean Fortune-stuff like 'ah, you wouldn't be tying your shoelaces in front of him'...
Lads in their late teens, and early 20s killed themselves because of Fortune's raping them. There was so much denial and fear too-even non-church folks.
A rape or child molestation was someone 'telling stories', or in the woman's case 'she lead him on'. Many people knew of someone who was 'sent away', either to the laundries or to England after a rape-be it because they became pregnant, or maybe the family were paid off to keep it quiet.

The guy was not rich, he was a known tosspot, and he was caught on CCTV. The girl on the other hand was looked down upon because she was, according to reports, a settled traveller, or a single mother-and we all know what society thinks of them...
Speculating is fine, but nobody is excusing the behaviour-far from it.

Omackeral

LLMMLL wrote: »

In America the same attitude towards rapists in prisons exist, yet male rape in prisons is relatively common. So is this evidence of a lack of a rape culture in America as prisoners claim to hate rapists or is it evidence of rape culture in America as rape is a fact of life wihin prisons?

Ok firstly, we're talking about Ireland. Not America. Prison culture is way different to here. There are massive race issues in jails, prison gangs, murder on a scale not known here and the death penalty is legal in parts of that country. Rape as an actual weapon of intimidation and fear is far far more prevalent in America in the American system than it is here.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Also how do you explain the 2009 story in Kerry of a queue of people forming to shake a convicted rapists hand in court?

Already did. It was one case from nearly a decade ago and it appalled anyone I've ever spoken to about it. The vast vast majority on here, probably everyone actually, were disgusted by it too. It very much goes against what most people would deem acceptable.

Will I Am Not

super_furry wrote: »

Jaysus, some serious obsessions going on in here about a poor journalist who everyone claims not to care about.

Who said people don’t care about her?
The people claiming not to care about her are those on the defensive with high post counts.

RabbleRouser2k

kunst nugget wrote: »

This is from the county that keeps voting in the Healy-Raes… There's something beyond fúcked up about down there. They must be all high on pixie dust.

Ah Dear Sweet Jeebus-I'm from Kerry, everyone who heard about those 50 people were horrified by it. The guy in question claimed to be 'a decent citizen helping the guards'. What he actually was was a pain in their sides, who ticked em all off. Those 50 people were mocked and derided for that sheer act of callousness and stupidity.

Every county has idiots-look at Dublin. The Lidl incident, the tossers who put people's lives and livelihoods at risk. 9 arrested, many more got away. ****ing idiots exist everywhere. Look at the thousands protesting, in Dublin, a crime that didn't even happen in their country with banners like 'Men R Trash'.

If you're gonna make fun of one county, look at the flipping capital which claims to be 'liberal' and then comes out with some appauling s***.

Ireland is screwed up-and the comments from Leo about the case, before it was even decided, show he's a few IQ points short of a plum pudding.

Omackeral

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Ah Dear Sweet Jeebus-I'm from Kerry, everyone who heard about those 50 people were horrified by it. The guy in question claimed to be 'a decent citizen helping the guards'. What he actually was was a pain in their sides, who ticked em all off. Those 50 people were mocked and derided for that sheer act of callousness and stupidity.

Every county has idiots-look at Dublin. The Lidl incident, the tossers who put people's lives and livelihoods at risk. 9 arrested, many more got away. ****ing idiots exist everywhere. Look at the thousands protesting, in Dublin, a crime that didn't even happen in their country with banners like 'Men R Trash'.

If you're gonna make fun of one county, look at the flipping capital which claims to be 'liberal' and then comes out with some appauling s***.

Ireland is screwed up-and the comments from Leo about the case, before it was even decided, show he's a few IQ points short of a plum pudding.

Wasn't even a crime by the letter of the law, that's the mad part.

Zulu

LLMMLL wrote: »

Given what I've seen on nights out then yes, the claim that it's a minority does need to backed up.

There's a word for that kind of prejudice, it's "sexism".

deaddonkey15

Zulu wrote: »

There's a word for that kind of prejudice, it's "sexism".

Hold on there. You can't be sexist towards men, it's impossible. Louise O'Neill said so.

RabbleRouser2k

I think LON would want to read this male rape victims story.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-raped-like-david-platt-12204444

The law is unbelievably horrible when it comes to rape cases. No matter the gender. And the claim 'it was consensual' can be difficult to not prove. Even in a case where it looks very much like no consent was given.
(As in the article linked).

But that's not what LON would like to hear-besides defaming people. (According to the court's judgement-whether you believe the verdict or not).

sydthebeat

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

I think LON would want to read this male rape victims story.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-raped-like-david-platt-12204444

The law is unbelievably horrible when it comes to rape cases. No matter the gender. And the claim 'it was consensual' can be difficult to not prove. Even in a case where it looks very much like no consent was given.
(As in the article linked).

But that's not what LON would like to hear-besides defaming people. (According to the court's judgement-whether you believe the verdict or not).

She wouldn't make any money from championing that side of the argument

Yer Da sells Avon

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Hold on there. You can't be sexist towards men, it's impossible. Louise O'Neill said so.

If you read AH, it's the only type of sexism that exists.

py2006

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

If you read AH, it's the only type of sexism that exists.

Utter Crap.

It's just certain types don't like it brought up because....you know...its impossible

LLMMLL

Omackeral wrote: »

Ok firstly, we're talking about Ireland. Not America. Prison culture is way different to here. There are massive race issues in jails, prison gangs, murder on a scale not known here and the death penalty is legal in parts of that country. Rape as an actual weapon of intimidation and fear is far far more prevalent in America in the American system than it is here.



Already did. It was one case from nearly a decade ago and it appalled anyone I've ever spoken to about it. The vast vast majority on here, probably everyone actually, were disgusted by it too. It very much goes against what most people would deem acceptable.

So there are differences between the America and Irish prison system. What does that have to do with what were discussing.

Both prison populations supposedly abhor those who commit sexual offenses. According to you this is evidence of there not being a rape culture. Yet in American prisons there is a major issue with male rape. It doesnt matter that it's a different country. If abhorrence of rapists among prisoners was truly a measure of attitudes to rape, surely one would expect those prisoners not to be rapists themselves no matter what the jurisdiction.

LLMMLL

Zulu wrote: »

There's a word for that kind of prejudice, it's "sexism".

I suppose you're going to tell me next that women behave exactly the same as men and tall about men in exactly the same way men talk about women because some woman grabbed your ass once ten years ago.

Yer Da sells Avon

py2006 wrote: »

Utter Crap.

It's just certain types don't like it brought up because....you know...its impossible

Certain other types (usually the types whose automatic reply to an accusation of misogyny is a very shrill cry of "what's misogynistic about...?") will always bring it up because... you know... as far as they can see, it's the only kind of sexism that matters.