Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Deal with what exactly? Surely the existence of any given thread shouldn't have to be justified at least not by its top poster.

What exactly is your purpose on this thread? You say your 'challenging' the consensus but we are still awaiting something resembling a valid counter argument instead of inane drivel

One example would be when I showed (with the generous help of rabble rouser) that men sexually harass women more than women sexually harass men.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

That's just bringing views that are already there to the surface, where they can be publicly challenged. I don't think discussion of rape culture adds to rape culture at all.

We still await your challenge ?

Ray Palmer

LLMMLL wrote: »

Neither is he. I referred to his post.

Just catching up with this and it is clear you have a very set view. Lets just point out some things and put them together. Rape is a crime of violence not sex. Harassment is unpleasant for everyone whether sexual of not but given rape is about violence and power is sexual harassment anything other than violence (doesn't need to be physical)?

Now males are harassed constantly in their daily lives. Whether it is a shoulder bump walking down the street or verbal threat. Men are more likely to be the victims of murder,assaults and general violence.

Claiming sexual assault is much much worse than other physical assaults is an issue for me. Is it really? I'm not sure why it is considered so. I have a scar on my face from being randomly attacked that I see every time I look in the mirror to remind me. Still makes me angry. When it happened people assumed I was to blame for some how proving the attack, being foolish for walking down that street wearing what I was wearing etc... lots of cross over here to the extent there is no difference.
The people who attack may be doing it to everyone and it isn't all men yet men who are victims are also being treated as perpetrators. I know a guy who was attacked but defended himself and injured the guy and was charged with attacking the guy that actually attacked him unprovoked. A witness eventually came forward. Talk about trauma and he lost his job over it.
People are victims of violence and it is not one gender victim nor perpetrator.

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

There really is a significant amount of irony in you questioning my intelligence... Where did I say you questioned my mental health? You were clearly questioning my intelligence, aka a personal attack. You had quite a lot of say here when people questioned your(sorry LON'S) mental health, labelling it a personal attack which you disapproved of. A little hypocritical in light of insults today wouldn't you say?

I believe I said it was ridiculous to diagnose her with a particular delusional mental illness that was the source.of her views on feminism.

So completely different to saying a particular post of yours was low intelligence.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We still await your challenge ?

On what? I answered the question he posed to me.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

That's just bringing views that are already there to the surface, where they can be publicly challenged. I don't think discussion of rape culture adds to rape culture at all.

Well, we will see..but I think you are wrong..

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

I believe I said it was ridiculous to diagnose her with a particular delusional mental illness that was the source.of her views on feminism.

So completely different to saying a particular post of yours was low intelligence.

You defined it as a personal attack on LON not me.

LLMMLL

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Just catching up with this and it is clear you have a very set view. Lets just point out some things and put them together. Rape is a crime of violence not sex. Harassment is unpleasant for everyone whether sexual of not but given rape is about violence and power is sexual harassment anything other than violence (doesn't need to be physical)?

Now males are harassed constantly in their daily lives. Whether it is a shoulder bump walking down the street or verbal threat. Men are more likely to be the victims of murder,assaults and general violence.

Claiming sexual assault is much much worse than other physical assaults is an issue for me. Is it really? I'm not sure why it is considered so. I have a scar on my face from being randomly attacked that I see every time I look in the mirror to remind me. Still makes me angry. When it happened people assumed I was to blame for some how proving the attack, being foolish for walking down that street wearing what I was wearing etc... lots of cross over here to the extent there is no difference.
The people who attack may be doing it to everyone and it isn't all men yet men who are victims are also being treated as perpetrators. I know a guy who was attacked but defended himself and injured the guy and was charged with attacking the guy that actually attacked him unprovoked. A witness eventually came forward. Talk about trauma and he lost his job over it.
People are victims of violence and it is not one gender victim nor perpetrator.

Rape is a crime of violence AND sex. Nobody has said that only women face violence and it's only their victimization that matters. But rape is an issue and it is different to physical violence and should be discussed as an issue in its own right.

Omackeral

LLMMLL wrote: »

One example would be when I showed (with the generous help of rabble rouser) that men sexually harass women more than women sexually harass men.

And, if memory serves, when it was put to you that men suffer more random beatings and assaults on nights out that it was all irrelevant even though the chat had progressed to the subject of “safety on nights out”. In other words, you looked to stifle the debate as it was going against your viewpoint.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

One example would be when I showed (with the generous help of rabble rouser) that men sexually harass women more than women sexually harass men.

A vast minority of men and women harass each other which blows the whole feminist ideology out of the water that there is a mass problem with how men see and treat women in the modern times. One hysterical eejit overhears or experiences something on a given weekend and she's on twitter machine to O'Neill, followed by another eejit in the opposite part of the country and all of sudden a mountain is made out of a molehill

I made a point of observing how men and women interact in 4 pubs around Limerick last night and I didn't see one instance of harassment or 'rape culture'.... actually I tell a lie a couple of women were grabbing arses as part of a dare on their hen party.

Anyway..back on topic..Do ye reckon she can cook?

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

Anyway..back on topic..Do ye reckon she can cook?

Her mam does that for her I thought

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

You defined it as a personal attack on LON not me.

Where? Just went back over all my posts from that time and don't see where I said that. Can you find it for me?

However I did find you saying this to me:

givyjoe wrote:

knew someone would trot this absolute horsesh1t out eventuallY

Pray tell, why is it ok for you to say I'm trotting out horse**** but not ok for me to say your post is low intelligence?

LLMMLL

Omackeral wrote: »

And, if memory serves, when it was put to you that men suffer more random beatings and assaults on nights out that it was all irrelevant even though the chat had progressed to the subject of “safety on nights out”. In other words, you looked to stifle the debate as it was going against your viewpoint.

I don't get the grammar in the above point so not sure exactly what you're saying.

What was irrelevant? Did I say something was irrelevant or the person who was saying men are attacked more on nights out?

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A vast minority of men and women harass each other which blows the whole feminist ideology out of the water that there is a mass problem with how men see and treat women in the modern times. One hysterical eejit overhears or experiences something on a given weekend and she's on twitter machine to O'Neill, followed by another eejit in the opposite part of the country and all of sudden a mountain is made out of a molehill

I made a point of observing how men and women interact in 4 pubs around Limerick last night and I didn't see one instance of harassment or 'rape culture'.... actually I tell a lie a couple of women were grabbing arses as part of a dare on their hen party.

I don't think it is a small minority of men who engage in harassing behaviour.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

Her mam does that for her I thought

Surely she taught her though..feminists have to feed themselves too..there's probably an ancient lineage of feminist cooks passing down recipes through the ages..

pjohnson

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't think it is a minority of men who engage in harassing behaviour.

Of course you dont Lou.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't think it is a minority of men who engage in harassing behaviour.

Really?

Ray Palmer

LLMMLL wrote: »

Rape is a crime of violence AND sex. Nobody has said that only women face violence and it's only their victimization that matters. But rape is an issue and it is different to physical violence and should be discussed as an issue in its own right.

You are just stating it is different. No reason behind it. I know people permanently disabled due to attacks why is that less regarded than a rape? Years and years of treatment months in hospital. Rape is physical violence and maybe it should not be held others that happen more frequently.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Really?

I'm open on that point. I definitely don't think it's a small minority. But im open to it being a minority (say 20%) and I'm open to it being a small majority (50-60%).

Omackeral

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't think it is a minority of men who engage in harassing behaviour.

Duh, we’re living in a patriarchal rape culture.

LLMMLL

Ray Palmer wrote: »

You are just stating it is different. No reason behind it. I know people permanently disabled due to attacks why is that less regarded than a rape? Years and years of treatment months in hospital. Rape is physical violence and maybe it should not be held others that happen more frequently.

I never said less. I don't think it's less.

It is definitely different though.

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

Where? Just went back over all my posts from that time and don't see where I said that. Can you find it for me?

However I did find you saying this to me:



Pray tell, why is it ok for you to say I'm trotting out horse**** but not ok for me to say your post is low intelligence?

I have absolutely no idea as you've quoted a single post from weeks ago with no context as to what I was replying to. Are you seriously suggesting that me stating one of your posts was horses1t, is in any way comparable to insinuating a lack if intelligence?!

You could also just clarify now if you believe concluding that LON was (or is) possibly suffering from mental illness = a personal attack. A simple yes or no would be great.

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm open on that point. I definitely don't think it's a small minority. But im open to it being a minority (say 20%) and I'm open to it being a small majority (50-60%).

So what you're saying is, you don't have empirical data to back up your OPINION and are simply pulling numbers from the sky.

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

I have absolutely no idea as you've quoted a single post from weeks ago with no context as to what I was replying to. Are you seriously suggesting that me stating one of your posts was horses1t, is in any way comparable to insinuating a lack if intelligence?!

Yes I don't see the difference in calling a post horse**** and saying a post is low intelligence. I think you only see a difference because one was made by you and the other wasade against you. Very hypocritical.

You could also just clarify now if you believe concluding that LON was (or is) possibly suffering from mental illness = a personal attack. A simple yes or no would be great.

So I'm assuming you couldn't find where i said it was a personal attack. Because I never claimed it was a peosnal attack. So I wasn't being hypocritical as you claimed.

And no I'm not going to fall for you trying to goad me into saying it's a personal attack now.

I didn't say it. You were wrong. Accept it and move on.

LLMMLL

givyjoe wrote: »

So what you're saying is, you don't have empirical data to back up your OPINION and are simply pulling numbers from the sky.

No more than anyone who think its a small minority is.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

And when you're spouting an ideology that could be seen as at odds with the underlying laws of nature upon which society is based perhaps you should expect resistance..

Are you using Natural Law, an ethical and moral framework that has been debunked and is only used by religious organisations to justify discrimination based on sexuality or gender?
It's the reason religious groups define homosexuality as being "Unnatural"

givyjoe

LLMMLL wrote: »

Yes I don't see the difference in calling a post horse**** and saying a post is low intelligence. I think you only see a difference because one was made by you and the other wasade against you. Very hypocritical.



So I'm assuming you couldn't find where i said it was a personal attack. Because I never claimed it was a peosnal attack. So I wasn't being hypocritical as you claimed.

And no I'm not going to fall for you trying to goad me into saying it's a personal attack now.

I didn't say it. You were wrong. Accept it and move on.

I'm on the mobile, so I'm not searching through your 120+ posts! It's a pain to post never mind 'stalk' old posts.

What trap Louise?! A little paranoid aren't we. What you really mean is that you do think it's a personal attack, but don't want to save me the hassle of trawling through your considerable number of posts to find it.

Grayson

Grayson wrote: »

Are you using Natural Law, an ethical and moral framework that has been debunked and is only used by religious organisations to justify discrimination based on sexuality or gender?
It's the reason religious groups define homosexuality as being "Unnatural"

No,..I'm talking about the laws of Nature...responsible for the propogation of the species since the dawn of time..The ones where life strives to pass on its genetic material..yeah, I wont get into an argument about "gender" or sexuality with you..

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

I made a point of observing how men and women interact in 4 pubs around Limerick last night and I didn't see one instance of harassment or 'rape culture'.... actually I tell a lie a couple of women were grabbing arses as part of a dare on their hen party.

Are you actually trying to say that studies etc are pointless because you went to 4 pubs in Limerick and it's representative of the whole world? You do realise how silly that argument is. A few hours in a pub in Limerick cannot demonstrate anymore than a what happened during those few hours in those pubs in limerick. Actually it can't even represent that since you can't have witnesses everything that happened in those pubs.

It's a dumb argument. It makes you look bad and it hurts your overall argument.