Louise O'Neill on manned mission to Mars: "Why not go to Venus?" (MOD Warning post 1)

Outlaw Pete

Grayson wrote: »

It's like me saying that you don't give a crap about women who are raped because you're always parroting on about mens rights. Would that be a correct assumption or would I just be making crap up.

That would be making crap up of course and thanks for pointing that out as quite a few have made that preposterous suggestion and nice to know you see it that way too

How can you make a claim like that? Or are you just making crap up in your head?

I have seen such cases (as the ones I posted) tweeted to her many times in replies to her tweets where she has been espousing that we all need to believe women and she just blocks those users. She has never replies saying that she empathizes with such men but that she still and all feels we should believe women anyway and then laid out her reasoning for taking that stance. I would have some respect for her if she did. All she does though is post a snarky remark about how white men are trying to tell her what to think. In fact she has wrote an article about accused men and how she is happy to see them fail and so at this stage it's not just ignorance on her part, it's willful ignorance:


https://twitter.com/NWCI/status/843058871140794369

"It might seem meaningless, given greater societal issues at play, but by refusing to go and see Casey Affleck’s movie, I am making a tiny declaration that I find his alleged behaviour reprehensible and that I refuse to reward him with my time, attention, or most importantly, money.

"How powerful would it be to see a movie starring Affleck or Mel Gibson or Johnny Depp or any of the other countless, immensely powerful men accused of heinous crimes against women, fail miserably at the box office due to a conscious boycott?"

I don't get how you strip them of all agency.

On the contrary, they strip themselves of agency. Feminists today want women to be treated like children that should have to take little or no responsibility for their actions.

In your head they become a caricature. They turn into your image of a feminist harpy who hates everyone with a penis and wants to either jail or castrate them.

Not just an image in my head, mate. Feminists like Louise O'Neill are very much a reality.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Attack the post not the poster. Rule 101. I have no issue with sarcasm or issues raised on what someone writes. You chose multiple times to pass observations about me personally without cause. Simply because I didn't agree with your pov.

And the other thread is littered with me pointing out where you've rewritten my statements and then commented on it. Not going through that again.

And yes... I LOVE the :rolleyes:

The other thread also has multiple instances of you summarizing what I said leading to something I did not actually say. Multiple times you said that I thought a woman should take no precautions. Which I never said and don't believe. Yet I'm the troll?

It's not that you disagreed with me. Just that you never offered any reason why you're concerned with sexual risks and unconcerned with other risks. You just kept saying they were different as they were not sexual. But that's my point. Why are sexual risks Ina special class of concern for you. In the absence of any answer (even an answer I disagree with) i specualted as to reasons you might believe this is so. Just as you have speculated as to the reasons feminists believe what they do.

LLMMLL

LLMMLL wrote: »

The other thread also has multiple instances of you summarizing what I said leading to something I did not actually say. Multiple times you said that I thought a woman should take no precautions. Which I never said and don't believe. Yet I'm the troll?

It's not that you disagreed with me. Just that you never offered any reason why you're concerned with sexual risks and unconcerned with other risks. You just kept saying they were different as they were not sexual. But that's my point. Why are sexual risks Ina special class of concern for you. In the absence of any answer (even an answer I disagree with) i specualted as to reasons you might believe this is so. Just as you have speculated as to the reasons feminists believe what they do.

The difference being that there was little need to speculate beyond what I wrote because I was there to ask (which is shown in long posts), however, you do love to speculate beyond what is written.

And I wrote about sexual assault, and rape because the thread (the OP article) was about that (which I noted multiple times). Your desire to use examples of a person being afraid to get out of bed or open the front door because of the possible risks involved, were unrelated to the context of the thread.

But then, you believe the risk of going to a hotel room with a complete stranger for sex to be low risk, whereas I believe it to be high risk.

And here I am engaging again with you. Meh. Done and done.

LLMMLL

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The difference being that there was little need to speculate beyond what I wrote because I was there to ask (which is shown in long posts), however, you do love to speculate beyond what is written.

And I wrote about sexual assault, and rape because the thread (the OP article) was about that (which I noted multiple times). Your desire to use examples of a person being afraid to get out of bed or open the front door because of the possible risks involved, were unrelated to the context of the thread.

But then, you believe the risk of going to a hotel room with a complete stranger for sex to be low risk, whereas I believe it to be high risk.

And here I am engaging again with you. Meh. Done and done.

I'd asked you multiple times and the example was driving a car, not getting out of bed. A MAJOR point that those of us critical of "safety advice" to women are making is that it's pretty unique to women and sex. Not only is there less focus on "advice" given to men around sex, there's less focus on "advice" given to men and women about non sexual risks. So of course it's relevant that people take risks such as driving that they are never criticised for.

I think the fact that people are so desperate to offer women "advice" in the wake of a horrible incident but do nothing but offer sympathy to people who do other low risk activities after a horrible incident needs to be explained.

RabbleRouser2k

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I recall listening to LON on the radio talking about the UCD ag science scandal and how upsetting it is for women/girls to have nude photos or videos of themselves shared online.

https://www.todayfm.com/Louise-ONeill:-It-Feels-Like-Just-Another-Incident-Where-Women-Are-Being-Belittled

It was put to her that men may be victims of this also and her reply was that it's worse for men to share pictures with their friends of a naked woman than vice versa. She claimed that male and female nudity is viewed in a different way and that the impact and consequences for men having their photos shared were not the same as for women.

Meanwhile, eight months earlier in the real world: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/ni-teen-who-took-his-life-being-blackmailed-parents-say-1.2251295

So if the usual boring hangers on in this thread are looking for an example of why her views are dangerous then there you go. Trivialising issues that cause young boys to kill themselves - on national radio.

Listening to that interview again, it's gas how any remark on girls taking some responsibility and not sending nude photos of themselves is repeatedly dismissed as victim blaming. She managed to include a few other of her favourite buzzwords like "patriarchy" and "rape culture". It's disappointing that the interviewer didn't challenge her more.

Anton Savage was the interviewer, a couple of months later, he left the station.

I genuinely get the feeling he wanted to rip her a new one-he's more astute to that kind of stuff than she is. Yet he was hindered a lot at that station-some of which he alluded to, some of which he did not.

Tommy Tiernan was able to deal with her brand of BS, and he didn't even know who she was.

And don't expect LON to comment on that-she wouldn't comment on anything in the real world.

I half expect a 'unicorns are a symbol of the patriarchy'... because believe it or not, there are feminists who oppose Dairy...
Crazy exists.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Pretty much everyone is assumed to get married and have kids someday. It's considered the default.

But a woman who doesn't achieve this is treated VERY differently than a man. I routinely hear single, childless women talked about pityingly, as if they're terribly tragic figures. Almost never hear the same about men unless they've no family and few friends.

I think some men on this thread are incapable of seeing different treatment. Such as the sexual harrassment debate earlier. They assume because they were groped once that they have the same experience as women. That was proved to be false.

Now because someone says to man occasionally "when will you be walking down the isle" or "when you're a father you'll understand" they falsely assume they have the same experience of this as women.

I completely disagree-look at Ant McPartlin, he of Ant and Dec fame, for one.

His issues with alcohol and depression were largely to do with his inability to have a child.
He's been discussing this for years-but the level of which it had affected him was far less widely covered. It was only when he went to rehab, as well as his subsequent substance abuse issues, that people largely wised up.

A groping can affect many people in different ways-Brendan Fraser has claimed his career was affected when he reported it. He suffered trauma from it also. To claim it affects one gender different to the other is a rash statement to make-it all comes down to the individual.

If you're narrowing it down to biological things-such as men cannot carry a child-well, that's semantics. The feelings are largely the same-it's been studied. Men, despite not carrying a child, will feel similar levels of trauma due to something like a miscarriage.

LLMMLL

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Anton Savage was the interviewer, a couple of months later, he left the station.

I genuinely get the feeling he wanted to rip her a new one-he's more astute to that kind of stuff than she is. Yet he was hindered a lot at that station-some of which he alluded to, some of which he did not.

Tommy Tiernan was able to deal with her brand of BS, and he didn't even know who she was.

And don't expect LON to comment on that-she wouldn't comment on anything in the real world.

I half expect a 'unicorns are a symbol of the patriarchy'... because believe it or not, there are feminists who oppose Dairy...
Crazy exists.



I completely disagree-look at Ant McPartlin, he of Ant and Dec fame, for one.

His issues with alcohol and depression were largely to do with his inability to have a child.
He's been discussing this for years-but the level of which it had affected him was far less widely covered. It was only when he went to rehab, as well as his subsequent substance abuse issues, that people largely wised up.

A groping can affect many people in different ways-Brendan Fraser has claimed his career was affected when he reported it. He suffered trauma from it also. To claim it affects one gender different to the other is a rash statement to make-it all comes down to the individual.

If you're narrowing it down to biological things-such as men cannot carry a child-well, that's semantics. The feelings are largely the same-it's been studied. Men, despite not carrying a child, will feel similar levels of trauma due to something like a miscarriage.

How individual men or women feel about being childless is a different thing to how they are viewed by society.

Can you honestly say a childless 40 year old woman and a childless 40 year old man are talked about in the exact same way on average?

I imagine that's what the host in question was getting at when discussing this issue.

And I don't think anyone has claimed a man feels differently about a groping than a woman. The claim is that it happens far more to women from men than it does to men from women.

RabbleRouser2k

LLMMLL wrote: »

How individual men or women feel about being childless is a different thing to how they are viewed by society.

Can you honestly say a childless 40 year old woman and a childless 40 year old man are talked about in the exact same way on average?

I imagine that's what the host in question was getting at when discussing this issue.

And I don't think anyone has claimed a man feels differently about a groping than a woman. The claim is that it happens far more to women from men than it does to men from women.

In my experience, yes they are-spoken of in much the same way. From looking at my extended family and so on. Now if you want to get into the debate of fertility-that's something that you have to take up with Mother Nature. A guy at 40 may be able to have a child if he so desires, a woman of 40 is up against the clock.
That's just nature. A different discussion entirely.

He wanted to challenge her on the issue of 'it's not the same' when actually it is-your body is yours, to choose what you wish to do with it. LON doesn't believe that, but she can never understand that as she doesn't want to.

That's not what you said before.

I think some men on this thread are incapable of seeing different treatment. Such as the sexual harrassment debate earlier. They assume because they were groped once that they have the same experience as women. That was proved to be false.

You compared the individual to the 'mass' as in one man vs all women. Many men have spoken of being groped quite often-on this board and other places. Similar feelings of violation and betrayal-similar to those of women. There was never a mention of this being proven false either.

As for whether it happens less or more to women-take a look at this case study which noted, on college campuses, how 19-31 percent of men had experienced assault by women. Anything from groping to non-consensual sexual assaults.
The difference being they are 'laughed at' for reporting it.
https://psmag.com/news/women-sexually-assault-men-92099

And what happens in those kinds of places often happens in other places-some supposed 'feminists' (not you) think that oppressing one gender is how you 'strengthen the other'. It's not-it's benefitting nobody.

professore

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don't think it is a minority of men who engage in harassing behaviour.

That is bull****.

professore

LLMMLL wrote: »

How individual men or women feel about being childless is a different thing to how they are viewed by society.

Can you honestly say a childless 40 year old woman and a childless 40 year old man are talked about in the exact same way on average?

I imagine that's what the host in question was getting at when discussing this issue.

And I don't think anyone has claimed a man feels differently about a groping than a woman. The claim is that it happens far more to women from men than it does to men from women.

They are talked about that way by OTHER WOMEN. Men don't sit around talking about how sad childless women are. Men don't care about stuff like that as a rule.

In fact pretty much every judgement of women is other women. The only exception I can think of are women putting themselves in dangerous situations - because men are acutely aware of this from being in dangerous situations regularly themselves as young teens and also knowing what some men are like with women. It's called sensible advice.

Omackeral

While I enjoy the new thread title, I’m disappointed at the misspelling of “safari”. Fcuking patriarchy at it again as usual.

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

I used Limerick last night as a case in point. I go out most weekends to various pubs, Waterford, Cork, Kilkenny, Limerick. Most girls and most fellas i bump into are decent harmless people just out for a good time. Yes I witness a creep here or there but overall the vast majority of people are decent to encounter even with the level of drink involved. To assume the majority of the 1m men of the going out age in Ireland want to disrespect and sexually harass women is akin to suggesting that the majority of these men want to join the Kinahan cartel. Its ludicrous

Your calling my argument dumb irregardless of the fact your cronies on this thread are picking figures out of their hole?

So do you go out much in Ireland? Do you see harassment and rapes everywhere you go??

My point is that 'rape culture' is in no way as big an issue that feminazi's claim it to be in Ireland because otherwise if it was you would see a serious drop off in the amount of women who go out every weekend. Why would flocks of women actually go out to experience such treatment?

I go out loads in Ireland. But I don't consider my personal experiences to be a benchmark by which I can judge the entire country. I'd need to be pretty full of myself to do so. I'd also need to be pretty dumb.

You're entire argument is "I don't see it therefore it doesn't exist" And that is pretty dumb.

I saw someone getting racially abused nce. Now does that mean racism is everywhere? Does it mean that racism only occured that one time. What it means is that once, I personally saw, racial abuse. That is literally all that can be drawn from that story.

You cannot say that sexism or sexual harassment doesn't exist in ireland, or is very rare, because of your personal experience. All you can say for certain is that you personally haven't witnessed it.

If you want to make a broader statement you ned to do broader research and insure that you have a properly selected sample group. Or you read research that has already done it.

Grayson

Omackeral wrote: »

While I enjoy the new thread title, I’m disappointed at the misspelling of “safari”. Fcuking patriarchy at it again as usual.

It looks like it's the Irish spelling.

RabbleRouser2k

Omackeral wrote: »

While I enjoy the new thread title, I’m disappointed at the misspelling of “safari”. Fcuking patriarchy at it again as usual.

Safrai is the feminist internet browser-it protects women, and makes them safe from horrible comments.

You learn something new every day.

Omackeral

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

Safrai is the feminist internet browser-it protects women, and makes them safe from horrible comments.

You learn something new every day.

Watched 37 seconds of that. I’m now off to dye my hair blue, cut my fringe into a short straight line and have my nose pierced with something ridiculous.

givyjoe

Grayson wrote: »

I go out loads in Ireland. But I don't consider my personal experiences to be a benchmark by which I can judge the entire country. I'd need to be pretty full of myself to do so. I'd also need to be pretty dumb.

You're entire argument is "I don't see it therefore it doesn't exist" And that is pretty dumb.

I saw someone getting racially abused nce. Now does that mean racism is everywhere? Does it mean that racism only occured that one time. What it means is that once, I personally saw, racial abuse. That is literally all that can be drawn from that story.

You cannot say that sexism or sexual harassment doesn't exist in ireland, or is very rare, because of your personal experience. All you can say for certain is that you personally haven't witnessed it.

If you want to make a broader statement you ned to do broader research and insure that you have a properly selected sample group. Or you read research that has already done it.

Glad to see a common sense approach and not judging an entire gender based on personal experiences.

Grayson

givyjoe wrote: »

Glad to see a common sense approach and not judging an entire gender based on personal experiences.

I'd like to see where someone has judged an entire gender.

It's possible to make some broad statements like women have different experiences to men. That's not judging, it's a statement of fact and it can only be fact because it's such a broad statement. And it's not even positive or negative.

But I don't think I've seen anyone here judging men as a whole. People keep saying that Louise O'Neill, or others, have made such statements as all men are rapists.

I haven't seen these statements and i have asked people for them. I haven't seen any posters say it either. I think a lot of this stuff is just in peoples heads. It's like an urban myth that a load of people think is true because they've heard it so often.

py2006

Just because men don't or won't or can't talk about sexual harassment doesn't mean it doesn't happen or happens far less than to women.

Nor should male victims be dismissed because there is less of them.

py2006

Men often don't put the unwanted interest, the jibe about their manhood or 'compliment' on their body into the category of sexual harassment. We just don't have a victim mentality. Rightly or wrongly.

When definitions are diluted so that more can be recruited into the victim club it skews reality and possibly call the (we are more vicitimy than you so HAH) stats into question.

Omackeral

Grayson wrote: »

I'd like to see where someone has judged an entire gender.

All Irish men anyway.

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I like men...outside Ireland.

givyjoe

Grayson wrote: »

I'd like to see where someone has judged an entire gender.

It's possible to make some broad statements like women have different experiences to men. That's not judging, it's a statement of fact and it can only be fact because it's such a broad statement. And it's not even positive or negative.

But I don't think I've seen anyone here judging men as a whole. People keep saying that Louise O'Neill, or others, have made such statements as all men are rapists.

I haven't seen these statements and i have asked people for them. I haven't seen any posters say it either. I think a lot of this stuff is just in peoples heads. It's like an urban myth that a load of people think is true because they've heard it so often.

Eh, have you not been reading the thread?! Sure anywhere between 20-60% of men have harassed women.. based on personal experiences. Judging may be the wrong, making completely unverifiable claims as to the % of men who have committed sexual assault, would be more accurate.

I'm literally referring to posts from this thread, it's not in anyone's head.

Your attention to detail could do with a little work, the comments attributed to LON were she considered all men to be POTENTIAL rapists.

MikeyTaylor

Why does the title of this thread keep changing?

Grayson

MikeyTaylor wrote: »

Why does the title of this thread keep changing?

Because your mother didn't love you?

Or because the mods are fickle creatures like Gods in days of yore.

You decide

Grayson

givyjoe wrote: »

Eh, have you not been reading the thread?! Sure anywhere between 20-60% of men have harassed women.. based on personal experiences. Judging may be the wrong, making completely unverifiable claims as to the % of men who have committed sexual assault, would be more accurate.

I'm literally referring to posts from this thread, it's not in anyone's head.

Your attention to detail could do with a little work, the comments attributed to LON were she considered all men to be POTENTIAL rapists.

Did you read my post and the post I was replying to where it mentioned all men. The word to look for is all.

That's why I asked when has anyone judged an entire gender or all men.


Edit to add. Here's an example of someone making a judgement on all, or at least a majority of, men and by extension, women too. You clicked like on it.

py2006 wrote: »

Men often don't put the unwanted interest, the jibe about their manhood or 'compliment' on their body into the category of sexual harassment. We just don't have a victim mentality. Rightly or wrongly.

When definitions are diluted so that more can be recruited into the victim club it skews reality and possibly call the (we are more vicitimy than you so HAH) stats into question.

So the gist of that is that men experience verbal harassment as much as women? And women are too sensitive and have a victim mentality?

Sile Na Gig

I read two of her books and I thought they were quite good. Except that all of the women in them were horrible to each other.

Am I doing this right?

Sile Na Gig

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

I read two of her books and I thought they were quite good. Except that all of the women in them were horrible to each other.

Am I doing this right?

Doing what right?

A little detail might be useful.

py2006

Sile Na Gig wrote: »

I read two of her books and I thought they were quite good. Except that all of the women in them were horrible to each other.

Am I doing this right?

How did the men fair out?

Omackeral

Grayson wrote: »

Did you read my post and the post I was replying to where it mentioned all men. The word to look for is all.

That's why I asked when has anyone judged an entire gender or all men.

Right here. All Irish men.

Appledreams15 wrote: »

I like men...outside Ireland.

py2006

Grayson wrote: »

Did you read my post and the post I was replying to where it mentioned all men. The word to look for is all.

That's why I asked when has anyone judged an entire gender or all men.


Edit to add. Here's an example of someone making a judgement on all, or at least a majority of, men and by extension, women too. You clicked like on it.



So the gist of that is that men experience verbal harassment as much as women? And women are too sensitive and have a victim mentality?

As much as? I don't know, perhaps or maybe more? Just don't believe its as rare as people like to suggest.

Victim mentality, I do believe a lot of modern feminism is based on that.

givyjoe

Grayson wrote: »

Did you read my post and the post I was replying to where it mentioned all men. The word to look for is all.

That's why I asked when has anyone judged an entire gender or all men.


Edit to add. Here's an example of someone making a judgement on all, or at least a majority of, men and by extension, women too. You clicked like on it.



So the gist of that is that men experience verbal harassment as much as women? And women are too sensitive and have a victim mentality?

What?! 20% or 50-60% of ALL MEN (in Ireland) is the judgment another poster has made, not me!! What on earth are you on about. Or if you really want to be pedantic, half of ALL MEN in Ireland have supposedly sexual assaulted someone.

LLMMLL wrote: »

I'm open on that point. I definitely don't think it's a small minority. But im open to it being a minority (say 20%) and I'm open to it being a small majority (50-60%).

Mickeroo

Why no Microsoft Edge? Though maybe she needs Internet Explorer because the newer browsers aren't compatible with her.