EA messed up - the huge backlash about SW : BF2

Penn

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

It's a positive note, I'd agree with you there.

I can't see it stopping things long term though. Gamers are just people, and people can't fight the good fight indefinitely, particularly not online where there are infinite distractions and it's a fickle place.

EA will return the option in future, and then things will go on as before. Slippery slope, we've been on it a long time and it'll continue.

Cynical and depressing view, I know.

Not if people follow through and don't buy the game regardless. That's what's really needed now. If the sales of a major AAA franchise, in the run up to Xmas, takes a noticeable sales hit off the back of this, it should hopefully mean other developers take note and don't push things as far as this game did.

What I see happening further down the line is some new method of additional revenue coming down the pipeline. Not saying lootboxes will go entirely, but just that devs/publishers will likely start trying to find the next moneymaker rather than relying on lootboxes now that the tide has begun turning on them.

Dave_The_Sheep

Penn wrote: »

Not if people follow through and don't buy the game regardless. That's what's really needed now.

Indeed, but I don't have faith in people to do that. If I'm wrong, it'd be deadly, I just don't see it happening. Remember the "boycott MW2" groups on steam?

{edit} I should probably mention that if this is the case where people do finally follow through and boycott en masse it might not fully surprise me given a few things making it the perfect storm:
- it's EA
- it's Star Wars
- it's got enough traction and visibility to be an easier bandwagon to keep paying attention to and thus 'on'.

trellheim

Short version :

1) Nothing can be allowed interfere with launch day sales and Thansgiving/Xmas orders.
2) Why ? Because, as said above, you can't monetize a dead horse so whatever it takes to get those orders in to build playerbase
3) Therefore microtrans removed till the heat dies down
4) They'll be back real soon, that money fountain is too good to leave alone.


Reddit at the moment is like Chamberlain on his return from Munich "I have in my hand a piece of paper" etc ( cue subtle Godwinning )

Venom

Penn wrote: »

Not if people follow through and don't buy the game regardless. That's what's really needed now. If the sales of a major AAA franchise, in the run up to Xmas, takes a noticeable sales hit off the back of this, it should hopefully mean other developers take note and don't push things as far as this game did.

What I see happening further down the line is some new method of additional revenue coming down the pipeline. Not saying lootboxes will go entirely, but just that devs/publishers will likely start trying to find the next moneymaker rather than relying on lootboxes now that the tide has begun turning on them.

I agree that a boycott on this game really is needed to send a loud and clear message that this sort of freenium BS is not acceptable. Sadly the problem is the amount of parents/relations who will buy a big AAA title like BF2 as a present for a family member but hopefully enough damage to EA's bottom line on this game and future reporting of it will be enough to see lootboxes not gain a foothold in AAA gaming.


But let's be realistic this is not the first AAA title that has gotten major bad press and reviews over the addition of lootboxes. The last 6 months alone has given us NBA 2k18, Shadows of War, Forza 7 and the latest Need for Speed and god only knows there have probley been others that slipped under the radar. Forza 7 really stood out for me as previous games already had a paid DLC revenue generator for Microsoft in the form of the various car packs they sold yet they still felt it was ok to gouge their playerbase with lootboxes

Dave_The_Sheep

trellheim wrote: »

Reddit at the moment is like Chamberlain on his return from Munich "I have in my hand a piece of paper" etc ( cue subtle Godwinning )

To be fair the Battlefront sub is mostly "this isn't over, they'll return, keep it going, don't trust EA" type posts. /r/gaming and /r/pcgaming also has those as it's top type posts at the moment amongst the others. I wouldn't say they're buying it (the story) to be honest.

jcd5971

Some mps have raised micro transactions as gambling in Parliament, they were contacted by gamers in their relevant constituencies and the mps were concerned enough to raise it.

Wether this has or will have any impact remains to be seen. Also with the Belgian commission looking into it, there's a strong possibility of them dialing back on this ****e for a while to avoid attention.

If even one state rules on it, micro transactions are ****ed as they won't have different versions of game in different regions.

Hell of all places China is leading the charge here, already having forced blizzard to announce probabilities of drops from purchase packs in hearts one and overwatch.

Rory28

Is there any indication on sales yet? it was released today and I'm curious to see how all this has affected the launch.

gizmo

jcd5971 wrote: »

If even one state rules on it, micro transactions are ****ed as they won't have different versions of game in different regions.

Hell of all places China is leading the charge here, already having forced blizzard to announce probabilities of drops from purchase packs in hearts one and overwatch.

Blizzard have actually gone beyond that in China since the Summer, when another set of laws came into force. Their new system is a kind of hybrid between a store with virtual currency and the existing lootbox system. Obviously the Chinese market is considerably bigger than the Belgian one but it does demonstrate the flexibility in design direction if regulation in certain regions necessitates it.

trellheim

what bugs me about this is it would be acceptable in an f2p model ... or would it ?

Here is the one

Dave_The_Sheep

Sums up my opinion on it really.

Jelle1880

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

To be fair the Battlefront sub is mostly "this isn't over, they'll return, keep it going, don't trust EA" type posts. /r/gaming and /r/pcgaming also has those as it's top type posts at the moment amongst the others. I wouldn't say they're buying it (the story) to be honest.

Have a gander at /r/BattlefrontTWO

Dave_The_Sheep

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Have a gander at /r/BattlefrontTWO

Not sure if you're taking the piss or not but ... /r/BattlefrontTWO: 3,454 readers vs 123,564 readers: /r/StarWarsBattlefront/. /gaming has 17 million or os while /pcgaming is half a mil or so.

That sub doesn't even register.

super_furry

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/11/17/unsure-about-star-wars-battlefront-2-read-our-review/?utm_source=WWN_Facebook_Page&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Social_Link&utm_content=Article

You know someone at EA has messed up when Waterford Whispers are writing about them.

K.O.Kiki

EA's stock is down 7 percent month to date through Thursday compared with the S&P 500's 0.4 percent gain.

J. Marston

If Wall Street is reacting then they must be a little worried.

Wouldn't it be lovely if this was the beginning of the end for them? It's nice to dream.

froog

man this is glorious. **** these AAA studios. i would honestly be delighted if they all went bust tomorrow.

Venom

It seems that for some crazy reason, Disney told DICE via EA that an overwatch style cosmetic lootbox system was not to be done!


https://venturebeat.com/2017/11/17/star-wars-battlefront-ii-almost-had-way-more-overwatch-style-hero-skins/


As much as I personally dislike lootboxes, especially in a full priced AAA title I reckon I would of been in the unhappy minority camp of players, if the devs had of stuck to their original plan instead of ruining the game with the pay2win bollocks they ended up making.

SeantheMan

Shiminay

People have been saying for years and years, all the noise that happens on the Internet is easy to ignore because people still buy everything. It's why people in boardrooms know that you can simply ignore the whinging masses cause they'll still buy the thing.

This seems to be the first time that the screaming masses have actually followed through and have voted with their wallets. Long may it continue.

Venom

Shiminay wrote: »

People have been saying for years and years, all the noise that happens on the Internet is easy to ignore because people still buy everything. It's why people in boardrooms know that you can simply ignore the whinging masses cause they'll still buy the thing.

This seems to be the first time that the screaming masses have actually followed through and have voted with their wallets. Long may it continue.

Agreed but when you look deeper into whats happened to BF2 since its beta access, it's like all the events leading up to last week have lined up to be the perfect example of how EA and Dice have so badly mismanaged this project.


1) It's a Star Wars game released a month before a Star Wars movie is due out, so gamers who are hyped up, fans of the franchise are hyped up and media organizations that are more than happy to cover this game as it will bring attention to them due to both the above fanbases and the mere fact it involves Star Wars, Disney and an outraged public.



2) A PR campaign who never once got a foot right with their message and managed to constantly piss off everyone with the narrative they tried to push.


3) The fact it's a pay2win system in a full price AAA multiplayer game was always going to rile players up the wrong way but unlike other AAA titles containing lootboxes, neither EA not it's defenders can cry the "it's only cosmetic" argument.


4) Governments already under pressure to look into the gambling elements of lootboxes have been given yet another reason to do so due to other very recent AAA titles pushing a similar concept.



As bad as the microtransactions are in BF2, NBA 2k18 and the latest Need for Speed as just as bad but they lack the household name awareness Star Wars brings to the table. I honestly believe if EA had of pulled this crap in their upcoming Bioware Destiny styled game, they would of gotten away with it.

B.A._Baracus

What's the general overview of the whole mess?
I have only briefly heard about it but read that you could have paid 90 bucks on Marco transitions to get a massive advantage in multiplayer. But over time other players would have skilled up to that level too right?

Sonics2k

Taking this away from the main thread

Jerichoholic wrote: »

I'm pretty sure this isn't the fist game and EA aren't the first company that has done this. Can you buy your way to better stuff in COD, Battlefield, CS GO, Overwatch etc.? Of course you can.

The way I see it, the most expensive crate in game is 4000 credits, you can earn that easily in game in about 40 minutes you can also earn credits by hitting challenges etc. I'm NEVER going to buy a lootcrate in this game and I can hold my own no problem the way it is now. And I'm not by any means great at multiplayer games at all.

I know for a fact in Overwatch you can't buy anything that gives you a competitive advantage of others.

Buy all means, companies can and should sell cosmetic items if people are silly enough to spend their money on them, but they should be selling the actual items/characters that give you an actual gameplay advantage.

jcd5971

Sonics2k wrote:

I know for a fact in Overwatch you can't buy anything that gives you a competitive advantage of others.

Yep just skins and sprays etc no advantages at all.

Jelle1880

Sonics2k wrote: »

Taking this away from the main thread



I know for a fact in Overwatch you can't buy anything that gives you a competitive advantage of others.

Buy all means, companies can and should sell cosmetic items if people are silly enough to spend their money on them, but they should be selling the actual items/characters that give you an actual gameplay advantage.

Same for CS:GO. Only skins.

However, CS:GO did seem to be the one that really got the gambling aspect of the lootboxes started.

Captain Obvious

Also from the other thread

Jerichoholic wrote: »

The outrage over this is beyond embarrassing. You'd swear EA were murdering children. I take you don't own the game let alone have even played it?

No, I'd expect many of the people in favour of a boycott based on loot boxes have not bought the game. That would really defeat the purpose of the boycott.

jcd5971

Captain Obvious wrote:

No, I'd expect many of the people in favour of a boycott based on loot boxes have not bought the game. That would really defeat the purpose of the boycott.

Thanks for pointing that out.... Captain obvious...... I'll get my coat

K.O.Kiki

Venom wrote: »

As bad as the microtransactions are in BF2, NBA 2k18 and the latest Need for Speed as just as bad but they lack the household name awareness Star Wars brings to the table. I honestly believe if EA had of pulled this crap in their upcoming Bioware Destiny styled game, they would of would've gotten away with it.

3 differences between this & Anthem:

1. Anthem isn't focused on PvP
2. They've already lost a good chunk of sales from Mass Effect fans unhappy with Andromeda (e.g. me)
3. New IP won't have the same draw. What do I care if I can't play as Generic Alienman Badguy? He's no Darth Vader.

Angron

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Same for CS:GO. Only skins.

However, CS:GO did seem to be the one that really got the gambling aspect of the lootboxes started.

Yeah, some of the values people attach to the rarer skins in that game are crazy. Can see some stuff on the steam marketplace for a few hundred sometimes (though whether they get bought by someone is a whole other matter).

Jelle1880

Angron wrote: »

Yeah, some of the values people attach to the rarer skins in that game are crazy. Can see some stuff on the steam marketplace for a few hundred sometimes (though whether they get bought by someone is a whole other matter).

I once made 50 euro from a knife skin :pac:

It's mental, but if you can get it...