Republic of Ireland vs Denmark, World Cup Play-Off 2nd Leg, kick-off 7.45, RTE 2

Rekop dog

mada999 wrote: »

meh nah not factually correct... they may have players who play on the continent but the teams they play for are not world beaters.. by any stretch.. so i would say our players are not technically inferior...

its about mentality, coaching and team work imo..

Poulsen has been regular at Leipzig who've been 2nd best in Germany year and a half. That's top level. Christensen has been getting starts ahead of some very good defenders at English champions Chelsea, was excellent against United recently. Eriksen is arguably world class or very close. Others like Kjaer playing in champions league. You don't make that level by accident, our only player currently realistically close to that level has been injured the last year.

Sheep breeder

MonkieSocks wrote: »

Remember a program on BBC about football in Iceland.

They coach the kids in all technical aspects of the game.

They solely concentrate on this until the kids become teenagers.

Only then do they have them playing competitive matches.

Agree to much put into winning at a young age and not building skills and learning how to play the game correctly and players moving around at young ages from club to club looking for glory and then getting left behind with loosing their way in the game. How many young fellas have the drive and desire and life skills to make it up the ladder, in the gaa and rugby they develop the skills at young age and work up the line as a team.

Billy86

thelad95 wrote: »

No but if we’d approached all those games the right way and gotten three points in even two of those five games we would have topped the group.

But we did get the full points in two games - away to Wales and to Austria. Had we approached Wales/Serbia/Austria differently there's a very good chance we would have come away with less than the 9 points we did from those six games.

Georgia was utterly shocking though, far far worse than tonight in my opinion and maybe the single worst overall performance since back in the Stan/Kerr years.

SeeMoreBut

Anyone know how many games we’ve failed to win after taking the lead?

Benimar

Just home from the Aviva. I’m knackered and pissed off so I’ll restrict myself to two comments.

1. No matter what level the players play at (Prem/Championship) There is no defending that sh1tshow tonight. Some need to take a long hard look at themselves.

2. The substitutions (unless there were injuries) were batsh1t crazy.

mada999

Rekop dog wrote: »

Poulsen has been regular at Leipzig who've been 2nd best in Germany year and a half. That's top level. Christensen has been getting starts ahead of some very good defenders at English champions Chelsea, was excellent against United recently. Eriksen is arguably world class or very close. Others like Kjaer playing in champions league. You don't make that level by accident, our only player currently realistically close to that level has been injured the last year.

Poulsen has played 7 games of which 3 he has been as sub and has scored 3 goals.. out of 11 games.. is he a regular?

3 players you've mentioned are playing for clubs in European competition... it doesn't negate the fact that people are saying that we are technically inferior man for man which isn't true.. and it goes the same for when we played Wales, Serbia and Austria.... it's just bull **** really...players at this level can pass a ball properly and that's a fact....

Georgia played like Brazil against us, passed us around the place.... were they technically better than us ???

meh some Dundalk players played in the Europa league last season.... and nearly made the champions league.. and they are technically inferior and they played some great football because they were allowed to play it..

our manager (previous managers) and many other gobshítes in this country have stated on many occasions that the players are technically shíte... no wonder they play like shíte if everyone is telling them they are shíte..

Billy86

mada999 wrote: »

Poulsen has played 7 games of which 3 he has been as sub and has scored 3 goals.. out of 11 games.. is he a regular?

He has started 7 and come off the bench in 3 more, on top of playing 3 of their 5 CL games (1 start, 2 subs) and another 2 games in the German Cup. That's on pace for maybe 34-35 league games, plus another 10-15 cup games on the season. I'd call that pretty regular to be honest.

http://www.espnfc.us/player/182245/yussuf-poulsen?season=2017

And yes, the quality of players on your team does impact the quality of play from your team.

BorneTobyWilde

When you see kids play soccer in Ireland the formation of both teams is

1
10
1
10 All you see is a 2 goalies an 20 players running after the ball. It's mind boggling

Cantona's Collars

Benimar wrote: »

Just home from the Aviva. I’m knackered and pissed off so I’ll restrict myself to two comments.

1. No matter what level the players play at (Prem/Championship) There is no defending that sh1tshow tonight. Some need to take a long hard look at themselves.

2. The substitutions (unless there were injuries) were batsh1t crazy.

If there's a listen back facility for Radio 1 it's worth a listen for the post game analysis. Not one of the panel could make sense of the formation,roles of players or substitutions. They spoke of rumours of a lack of actual coaching on the training pitch,the players find out formations literally in the dressing room before games just after they are told if they are in the team or not.Nothing is given over to how the opposition might set up or any analysis of their playing style. If these rumours are true then serious questions need to be asked of MON's method of management.

Nerdlingr

Martin O Neill took off arter and our captain meyler at half time tonight and left erikson run us ragged. Who in their right mind thought this was a good idea? Where was roy Keane , the voice of sanity to reign him in? Hes assistant manager and hes nothing more than a yes man at this stage. What good is he if he doesn't question the manager. The two of them at the end of the game flabbergasted at what had just happened......wake up and smell the coffee, this has been coming for 4 years!! Eventually your luck will run out. You can't keep relying on lumping the ball forward and hoping for the best. I hopefully this is the end of the road for this duo. Insipid football at its finest.

lawred2

Nalz wrote: »

I always watch my country on TV and proud when they do well or play well, but I've stopped going to games. Pints taxis ticket costs etc , it's just not worth it. By any stretch. Even with the season ticket.

You could skip the pints

kippy

Trying not to be too knee jerk here. A very disappointing result obviously.
A few things went against us and there were some questionable management decisions. O Neill's lack of standard tactical or opposition analysis is well documented at this stage, that doesn't excuse it.

Ultimately the FAI and its senior staff are to blame. It really is as simple as that. But yet again they will continue to get away with it.
Any organisation that accepts they type of behaviour that a certain head of it gets away with deserves what it gets.
It's a disgrace to the many volunteers all over the country who give their time freely regularly that the FAI has been more of a block to progress rather than an enabler.

Not gonna say anything else on it. Sport is sport, these things happen.

Turtyturd

Switched off at half time as there was no way we were scoring another 2 but was surprised by just how embarrassing it got.

Hopefully that was a reality check for some people. I don’t know if it’s from people growing up with Charlton’s team and Mc Carthy’s team but there is a serious over estimation of the level this current team are at with some seeing the Danes as a formality despite them being a level above Ireland.

Don’t think I’d be rushing O’Neill out yet, if for no other reason than the most likely replacement is Keane.

lawred2

Just saw the score tick across the screen on Euronews. It's even worse in the cold light of day.

fullstop

lawred2 wrote: »

You could skip the pints

He could, but then he'd have to watch that shyte sober

Nalz

Benimar wrote: »

The substitutions (unless there were injuries) were batsh1t crazy.

People keep saying this. When have we ever turned over a losing scoreline at home doing what we usually do, or tweaking it with subtle changes? The management know this too, not just the media or the normal punters like us.

We were in a crazy difficult situation and we tried something difficult and crazy to get out of it. It back fired. Hindsight 20-20 n all that.

fullstop

mada999 wrote: »

Poulsen has played 7 games of which 3 he has been as sub and has scored 3 goals.. out of 11 games.. is he a regular?

3 players you've mentioned are playing for clubs in European competition... it doesn't negate the fact that people are saying that we are technically inferior man for man which isn't true.. and it goes the same for when we played Wales, Serbia and Austria.... it's just bull **** really...players at this level can pass a ball properly and that's a fact....

How many games has our supposedly best player at the minute, McClean played for his club recently? And they're no top club. The thing about Wales, Serbia and Austria is that they have a sprinkling of top players at top clubs...Real Madrid, Bayern, Man City, Arsenal. We have nobody operating even close to that level.

Nalz

Turtyturd wrote: »

Switched off at half time as there was no way we were scoring another 2 but was surprised by just how embarrassing it got.

And if Ireland got a poxy fluke or scrappy goal the first 5 mins or so in second half, like they did the first half, and somehow you heard/read as much, you'd still not watch it.... right?

Benimar

Nalz wrote: »

People keep saying this. When have we ever turned over a losing scoreline at home doing what we usually do, or tweaking it with subtle changes? The management know this too, not just the media or the normal punters like us.

We were in a crazy difficult situation and we tried something difficult and crazy to get out of it. It back fired. Hindsight 20-20 n all that.

Brady to LB, Ward and Murphy off, Long and McGeady on and go 4-3-3 was a pretty common suggestion at half time, so it’s not hindsight. We only needed 2 goals in 45 mins at that stage, it was still possible with a more attacking, coherent formation.

Ripping up the midfield and giving Eriksen the freedom of the Aviva was a stupid move at the time, and it remains a stupid idea.

mada999

fullstop wrote: »

How many games has our supposedly best player at the minute, McClean played for his club recently? And they're no top club. The thing about Wales, Serbia and Austria is that they have a sprinkling of top players at top clubs...Real Madrid, Bayern, Man City, Arsenal. We have nobody operating even close to that level.

does that mean we cant put the ball on the ground and pass the ball to one of our team mates and then make a move to receive the return ball...because we can do that...

oh and Georgia dont have these sprinkling of top players and they absolutely battered us, passed us around the pitch... are Georgia's players better than our players?

I'm blue in the face saying it... it's the way we set up and we play this way because of the mentality of our managers.

Heck it's even been indoctrinated into us at a young age playing schoolboy/junior football... Pick all the big lads then get them to hoof it up to the bigger lad up front...

Wheeliebin30

Benimar wrote: »

Brady to LB, Ward and Murphy off, Long and McGeady on and go 4-3-3 was a pretty common suggestion at half time, so it’s not hindsight. We only needed 2 goals in 45 mins at that stage, it was still possible with a more attacking, coherent formation.

Ripping up the midfield and giving Eriksen the freedom of the Aviva was a stupid move at the time, and it remains a stupid idea.

Wes instead of mcgeady and I agree.

DeanAustin

Have to laugh at the lads saying that we should try and emulate Iceland/Northern Ireland and “reform the game to play the right way”.

Iceland are awful to watch. Dreadful and it will be interesting to see if they have sustained success over time or have just hit the same purple patch that we hit from 1988 - 1994.

Northern Ireland have just hit a purple patch. They’ll revert to type soon and O’Neill won’t cut it in the Premier League if he gets a job there. Fair play to them, they’ve done really well, like Iceland, but they’re awful to watch too.

We have no real interest in playing the game the right way. The fact that people only have this conversation after defeats shows that we’re preoccupied with results. No one was posting “we need to reform the game” after Wales despite the performance being terrible from a football point of view.

The fact people are pointing at Iceland and Northern Ireland also shows we are preoccupied with results rather than performances.

To change the culture, we’d have to accept lads taking risks like Ward did last night and when they lose it and concede a goal saying “don’t worry about it, keep doing what you’re doing”. Yet, last night, all he got was abuse on here.

We’d have to teach lads that the most important fella on the pitch is not the one with the ball, it’s the other players who need to make an angle for a pass. We’d need to teach them about using space. We’d have to teach them to take a look around them before the ball even comes to them and know where they’re putting it. Ward had no option on that goal last night other than do what he did or put his foot through the ball which he’d be slated for doing too. If we’d had someone with a brain dropping square for a pass, he’d have had an option but we don’t coach that.

Finally, do all that and there are no guarantees. Italy aren’t going, Holland aren’t going, USA aren’t going, Bulgaria aren’t going, Romania aren’t going, Greece aren’t going, Chile aren’t going, Paraguay aren’t going. Even Argentina struggled. We are a nation of 4 million people. Playing “the right way” will give us a better looking team but we won’t suddenly start qualifying for every tournament.

Nalz

Benimar wrote: »

.We only needed 2 goals in 45 mins at that stage, it was still possible with a more attacking, coherent formation.

And there it is... The "We".

We, have never ever done anything remotely like you are suggesting, not are we capable of, scoring 2 goals in 45 mins against a technically better side who are leading over two ties.

It was ballsy and risky, and bit baffling, but something drastic was needed to pull that back. Shows the faith the coaching staff have in the team if anything. Sure you see here some just switched off at halftime with "only needing 2 goals"

Nalz

DeanAustin wrote: »

Have to laugh at the lads saying that we should try and emulate Iceland/Northern Ireland and “reform the game to play the right way”.

Iceland are awful to watch. Dreadful and it will be interesting to see if they have sustained success over time or have just hit the same purple patch that we hit from 1988 - 1994.

Northern Ireland have just hit a purple patch. They’ll revert to type soon and O’Neill won’t cut it in the Premier League if he gets a job there. Fair play to them, they’ve done really well, like Iceland, but they’re awful to watch too.

We have no real interest in playing the game the right way. The fact that people only have this conversation after defeats shows that we’re preoccupied with results. No one was posting “we need to reform the game” after Wales despite the performance being terrible from a football point of view.

The fact people are pointing at Iceland and Northern Ireland also shows we are preoccupied with results rather than performances.

To change the culture, we’d have to accept lads taking risks like Ward did last night and when they lose it and concede a goal saying “don’t worry about it, keep doing what you’re doing”. Yet, last night, all he got was abuse on here.

We’d have to teach lads that the most important fella on the pitch is not the one with the ball, it’s the other players who need to make an angle for a pass. We’d need to teach them about using space. We’d have to teach them to take a look around them before the ball even comes to them and know where they’re putting it. Ward had no option on that goal last night other than do what he did or put his foot through the ball which he’d be slated for doing too. If we’d had someone with a brain dropping square for a pass, he’d have had an option but we don’t coach that.

Finally, do all that and there are no guarantees. Italy aren’t going, Holland aren’t going, USA aren’t going, Bulgaria aren’t going, Romania aren’t going, Greece aren’t going, Chile aren’t going, Paraguay aren’t going. Even Argentina struggled. We are a nation of 4 million people. Playing “the right way” will give us a better looking team but we won’t suddenly start qualifying for every tournament.

This is an excellent post.

tastyt

The usual stuff about Iceland and the likes will be trotted out today.

Iceland are flavor of the month and fair play to them for investing in football but it will still go in cycles for small countries. In ten years time if they miss out on a couple of euros or world cup that wer in I bet everyone in Iceland wont be saying they should be like us.

Its impossible to compare Ireland to any country really. Wer tiny and have our kids playing gaa and rugby in school almost every day where in other countries that time is spent with a football.

Unfortunately/ fortunately some we say we have our own indigenous sports that take a huge amount of our talented athletes and its not something thats changing, if anything its getting stronger and more attractive.

We absolutely need investment in the game but the fact is we are always going to be reliant on getting lucky with a group or generation of players like Keane, duff, dunne etc

threein99

If its true how little O Neil does on the training pitch regarding shape and plans then hes stealing a living and needs to go. If your organised you will go close in a lot of matches at International level. If your limited as we are then there's no excuse for not putting that work in.

Benimar

Nalz wrote: »

And there it is... The "We".

We, have never ever done anything remotely like you are suggesting, not are we capable of, scoring 2 goals in 45 mins against a technically better side who are leading over two ties.

It was ballsy and risky, and bit baffling, but something drastic was needed to pull that back. Shows the faith the coaching staff have in the team if anything. Sure you see here some just switched off at halftime with "only needing 2 goals"

People on here losing their heads and switching off their tvs in frustration is one thing, a highly paid manager hitting the panic button is something completely different.

Two goals in 45 minutes is tough but not impossible. Set the team up right, stop Eriksen, keep an eye on Sisto, try get it back to 2-2 and go gung-ho for the last 15 minutes if need be. Sure, Denmark may have technically better players but they aren't that good!

CurryFlavoured

Our home form came to bite us in the arse again.

I don't think we necessarily played way worse that previous games tbh. We conceded a flukey away goal which forced us to come out and play. It forced us to drive forward. That's not what this team are as we've seen time and time again, hence why we score so few and struggle to dictate games even against very weak opposition at home. We're a very one dimensional team that will only defend very strongly and hopefully nick a goal in one type of game scenario. Once it became a shootout we were screwed.

lawred2

DeanAustin wrote: »

Have to laugh at the lads saying that we should try and emulate Iceland/Northern Ireland and “reform the game to play the right way”.

Iceland are awful to watch. Dreadful and it will be interesting to see if they have sustained success over time or have just hit the same purple patch that we hit from 1988 - 1994.

Northern Ireland have just hit a purple patch. They’ll revert to type soon and O’Neill won’t cut it in the Premier League if he gets a job there. Fair play to them, they’ve done really well, like Iceland, but they’re awful to watch too.

We have no real interest in playing the game the right way. The fact that people only have this conversation after defeats shows that we’re preoccupied with results. No one was posting “we need to reform the game” after Wales despite the performance being terrible from a football point of view.

The fact people are pointing at Iceland and Northern Ireland also shows we are preoccupied with results rather than performances.

To change the culture, we’d have to accept lads taking risks like Ward did last night and when they lose it and concede a goal saying “don’t worry about it, keep doing what you’re doing”. Yet, last night, all he got was abuse on here.

We’d have to teach lads that the most important fella on the pitch is not the one with the ball, it’s the other players who need to make an angle for a pass. We’d need to teach them about using space. We’d have to teach them to take a look around them before the ball even comes to them and know where they’re putting it. Ward had no option on that goal last night other than do what he did or put his foot through the ball which he’d be slated for doing too. If we’d had someone with a brain dropping square for a pass, he’d have had an option but we don’t coach that.

Finally, do all that and there are no guarantees. Italy aren’t going, Holland aren’t going, USA aren’t going, Bulgaria aren’t going, Romania aren’t going, Greece aren’t going, Chile aren’t going, Paraguay aren’t going. Even Argentina struggled. We are a nation of 4 million people. Playing “the right way” will give us a better looking team but we won’t suddenly start qualifying for every tournament.

I was. That game was a joke.

The rest I 100% agree with.

Whatever Irish football's problems are - they begin and end with the FAI.

Zico !

Have to avoid any coverage of this in the media today-humiliating

Cantona's Collars

threein99 wrote: »

If its true how little O Neil does on the training pitch regarding shape and plans then hes stealing a living and needs to go. If your organised you will go close in a lot of matches at International level. If your limited as we are then there's no excuse for not putting that work in.

The word arrogant came up an awful lot in the analysis last night. I saw his post match interview on Sky and yep,that arrogance was coming through.
We got away with results for so long now, playing hoofball, sneaking a goal and retreating with 10 men in our own half but by trying to be clever last night our manager gave Danish players the freedom of the park. You know something is wrong when the Danish manager thanks the team for giving Erickson so much freedom to destroy us.

PhuckHugh

DeanAustin wrote: »

Have to laugh at the lads saying that we should try and emulate Iceland/Northern Ireland and “reform the game to play the right way”.

Iceland are awful to watch. Dreadful and it will be interesting to see if they have sustained success over time or have just hit the same purple patch that we hit from 1988 - 1994.

Northern Ireland have just hit a purple patch. They’ll revert to type soon and O’Neill won’t cut it in the Premier League if he gets a job there. Fair play to them, they’ve done really well, like Iceland, but they’re awful to watch too.

We have no real interest in playing the game the right way. The fact that people only have this conversation after defeats shows that we’re preoccupied with results. No one was posting “we need to reform the game” after Wales despite the performance being terrible from a football point of view.

The fact people are pointing at Iceland and Northern Ireland also shows we are preoccupied with results rather than performances.

To change the culture, we’d have to accept lads taking risks like Ward did last night and when they lose it and concede a goal saying “don’t worry about it, keep doing what you’re doing”. Yet, last night, all he got was abuse on here.

We’d have to teach lads that the most important fella on the pitch is not the one with the ball, it’s the other players who need to make an angle for a pass. We’d need to teach them about using space. We’d have to teach them to take a look around them before the ball even comes to them and know where they’re putting it. Ward had no option on that goal last night other than do what he did or put his foot through the ball which he’d be slated for doing too. If we’d had someone with a brain dropping square for a pass, he’d have had an option but we don’t coach that.

Finally, do all that and there are no guarantees. Italy aren’t going, Holland aren’t going, USA aren’t going, Bulgaria aren’t going, Romania aren’t going, Greece aren’t going, Chile aren’t going, Paraguay aren’t going. Even Argentina struggled. We are a nation of 4 million people. Playing “the right way” will give us a better looking team but we won’t suddenly start qualifying for every tournament.

We dont have to be pretty on the eye - We just have to be well drilled and organized, we seem to have lost that in the latter half of this campaign but we lost some key players to injury as well - Coleman, Walters and even McCarthy.

As for reform - Ive said it on another thread - until we sort our domestic game out as a counter balance to the swamp that is English academies we are going no where. We are hoping lads come through the English system, which is stacked with world talent, but the reality is we are losing the majority of them util 23 when they come home or give lower league football a go and try climb from there.

Investing in a domestic league wont make us world beaters but it will create an environment to develop young players - If 5/6 of the current squad can make it from a half baked league, then a functioning league can only give us a better return.

The FAI and the Irish soccer public need to hang their heads in this regard -- The FAI couldn't give two fcuks about the domestic game - they need to be investing in infrastructure and coaching. Your average Irish soccer fan will make demands of the national team and bemoan players and not qualifying but can be found in pubs or planes every weekend with their man U and Liverpool tops arguing with each other about nothing. Sport is about community - local to national. We build a better domestic product to develop young lads as an alternative to being lost in English academies and we can then talk about an Irish identity and reforming the game...

Without that, we are just hoping a few lads make it - a very Irish outlook really, let someone else do the work - and we will just continue to be 4th seeds ... But hey, the premier league is back this weekend

Fr Tod Umptious

I remember a few years ago I looked back at the goal v Germany in Japan on YouTube.

Even though the ball to Keane was route one in the end the amount of passing play that was done in the lead up surprised me.

Ireland have really regressed in that regard I thought, they seemed to play far more passing football under McCarthy.

Did they ?

PhilipsR

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I remember a few years ago I looked back at the goal v Germany in Japan on YouTube.

Even though the ball to Keane was route one in the end the amount of passing play that was done in the lead up surprised me.

Ireland have really regressed in that regard I thought, they seemed to play far more passing football under McCarthy.

Did they ?

They did. But look at the standard of player we had then.

callaway92

It's a cliché I'm never a fan of, but I genuinely think we scored too early last night.

If this was still 0-0 at the hour mark it would stayed that way.

It hurts but we deserved to go out. The second half of the campaign really went out with a whimper I felt. Gonna be a long 18 months for the Ireland team with no competitive games.

Lack of a goalscorer going forward in the future is ridic worrying.

TheCitizen

DeanAustin wrote: »

Have to laugh at the lads saying that we should try and emulate Iceland/Northern Ireland and “reform the game to play the right way”.

Iceland are awful to watch. Dreadful and it will be interesting to see if they have sustained success over time or have just hit the same purple patch that we hit from 1988 - 1994.

Northern Ireland have just hit a purple patch. They’ll revert to type soon and O’Neill won’t cut it in the Premier League if he gets a job there. Fair play to them, they’ve done really well, like Iceland, but they’re awful to watch too.

We have no real interest in playing the game the right way. The fact that people only have this conversation after defeats shows that we’re preoccupied with results. No one was posting “we need to reform the game” after Wales despite the performance being terrible from a football point of view.

The fact people are pointing at Iceland and Northern Ireland also shows we are preoccupied with results rather than performances.

To change the culture, we’d have to accept lads taking risks like Ward did last night and when they lose it and concede a goal saying “don’t worry about it, keep doing what you’re doing”. Yet, last night, all he got was abuse on here.

We’d have to teach lads that the most important fella on the pitch is not the one with the ball, it’s the other players who need to make an angle for a pass. We’d need to teach them about using space. We’d have to teach them to take a look around them before the ball even comes to them and know where they’re putting it. Ward had no option on that goal last night other than do what he did or put his foot through the ball which he’d be slated for doing too. If we’d had someone with a brain dropping square for a pass, he’d have had an option but we don’t coach that.

Finally, do all that and there are no guarantees. Italy aren’t going, Holland aren’t going, USA aren’t going, Bulgaria aren’t going, Romania aren’t going, Greece aren’t going, Chile aren’t going, Paraguay aren’t going. Even Argentina struggled. We are a nation of 4 million people. Playing “the right way” will give us a better looking team but we won’t suddenly start qualifying for every tournament.

Good post

Banjaxed82

PhilipsR wrote: »

They did. But look at the standard of player we had then.

Doesn't take a great player to pass the ball 10 yards, and it doesn't take a great player to not hack the ball away in a panic like it's some ticking bomb.

The players don't perform like this with their clubs. Something is happening when they pull on the Irish shirt. It's happening to too many players, that it can't be a coincidence.

PhilipsR

We didn't lose our World Cup spot last night. We lost it with our inability to take the initiative in the group. It started from Wales at home when we didn't have a go in the last 30 mins with them down to 10 men. And was further compounded by the draw in Georgia and then the need to have a go against Serbia due to the poor results of before.

The second half really doesn't need to be discussed at length. The second goal was the killer and showed the difference in quality. Within 5 touches of Ward losing the ball, half way in the Danish half, the ball was being bent into the top corner. We could never do that.

Cantona's Collars

PhilipsR wrote: »

They did. But look at the standard of player we had then.

Even so,the bare basis of football is passing it to each other. Not 2 passes between the centre halves and hitting it as far up the field as possible or playing hit and hope balls into the channels hoping the opposition full back falls asleep.
With a big man up front our play should have been get it wide, cross it in, simple enough for our 'limited' players. Not drive it 70 yards up to a fella who is isolated and hope he can magic the ball into the net.
We aren't going to be Barcelona but at least we can try to put more than 3 passes together before kicking the ball away.

Banjaxed82

PhilipsR wrote: »

We didn't lose our World Cup spot last night. We lost it with our inability to take the initiative in the group. It started from Wales at home when we didn't have a go in the last 30 mins with them down to 10 men. And was further compounded by the draw in Georgia and then the need to have a go against Serbia due to the poor results of before.

The second half really doesn't need to be discussed at length. The second goal was the killer and showed the difference in quality. Within 5 touches of Ward losing the ball, half way in the Danish half, the ball was being bent into the top corner. We could never do that.

DeanAustin

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Doesn't take a great player to pass the ball 10 yards, and it doesn't take a great player to not hack the ball away in a panic like it's some ticking bomb.

The players don't perform like this with their clubs. Something is happening when they pull on the Irish shirt. It's happening to too many players, that it can't be a coincidence.

It’s not really the player on the ball at fault.

Take the second goal last night. I watch a lot of Spurs so I’ll use them as the example. Davies gets that ball, he has Dier square and Vertonghen behind him looking for it. You then have Winks looking to pick up the next ball and Trippier hugging the right touchline also giving an option for the next ball too. Lloris and Alderweireld are also giving last gasp options if there is nowhere to go and the manager tells them “go all the way back if you have to but don’t give it away.”

Ward had two options last night, boot it or try beat the man. He chose the wrong one and got punished. He should have had 2-3 more options. That’s not about an ability to pass the ball 10 yards, that’s the managerial instruction and a lack of spacial awareness from our players. Without meaning to sound like Dunphy, Wes Hoolahan in central midfield would have been looking for that ball.

threein99

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I remember a few years ago I looked back at the goal v Germany in Japan on YouTube.

Even though the ball to Keane was route one in the end the amount of passing play that was done in the lead up surprised me.

Ireland have really regressed in that regard I thought, they seemed to play far more passing football under McCarthy.

Did they ?

Played some good stuff under McCarthy.

Fr Tod Umptious

PhilipsR wrote: »

They did. But look at the standard of player we had then.

That is very true.

Billy86

corny wrote: »

I take your point about Ireland going backwards but i reject the bold bit out of hand. Players are stronger and fitter but no way are there more technically gifted players playing football today than 20 years ago. The game is about power and pace now more than ever.

I was referring to overall player levels but to be honest I'd put it at least as technical as 20 years ago if not more, but the game is indeed played at a much faster pace and with far more organised teams. That quicker pace also requires quicker thinking, better reactions, and a better ability to operate in tight spaces, more tactical awareness and more discipline. Top level football is not just far more physical, but also far more tactical, more mentally demanding and at least as if not more technical than it was 20 years ago.

_Puma_

Starts today for Irelands future on the international scene. People need to get their heads out of the sand.

The FAI are a major problem in developing the game here but things are slowly changing with the introduction of the youth national leagues (they have been dragged kicking and screaming by UEFA). The domestic game needs to be invested in but the only way that will happen is if people start showing an interest. Start by going to a game next season on a Friday night.

We either turn a corner after this or we fall even further behind. I don't buy any of this "we don't have the players". We need to start thinking long term and start developing the players.

Laois_Man

What annoys me about these conversations regarding where the FAI are going wrong and how ****e they are and how they need to invest and where they new to invest etc etc is the amount of people who only want to mention it every 2 years after we get knocked out of a tournament

I wonder how many of them actually know anything about the work Ruud Dokter has done or how much investment he has recieved!

irishman86

fullstop wrote: »

How many games has our supposedly best player at the minute, McClean played for his club recently? And they're no top club. The thing about Wales, Serbia and Austria is that they have a sprinkling of top players at top clubs...Real Madrid, Bayern, Man City, Arsenal. We have nobody operating even close to that level.

While i agree with your comment. We do have Coleman who wouldnt look out of place at any club, might not start every week but he is a very good player in a world where there is few top rbs around

Dublin Spur

I honestly think we would be mid-table in the Championship in England
We did very well to get to the playoffs as 4th seeds
I'm proud of the team but spirit and character will only get you so far

dinorebel

Laois_Man wrote: »

What annoys me about these conversations regarding where the FAI are going wrong and how ****e they are and how they need to invest and where they new to invest etc etc is the amount of people who only want to mention it every 2 years after we get knocked out of a tournament

I wonder how many of them actually know anything about the work Ruud Dokter has done or how much investment he has recieved!

Ruud Dokter? didn't she used to work for Chelsea?

dinorebel

irishman86 wrote: »

While i agree with your comment. We do have Coleman who wouldnt look out of place at any club, might not start every week but he is a very good player in a world where there is few top rbs around

You need your best player to be play a position that can affect play even the best RB's in the world cant do that.