Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] Spoilers

breezy1985 · 04-09-2022 11:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572052#Comment_119572052

Disappointing but it's just not surprising any more. As I said earlier everything in TV/film has to be a call back to something.

JJ Abrams could have tried to make a Star Trek movie about a new crew but no film exec. would ever fund it without the name Kirk or similar. The new Star Wars is full of call back and old characters (ironically Mando and Rogue One about new characters as so much better than the rest). New Bonds are still spewing out and we are getting another Indy movie and more new Alien stuff to go with the new Predator stuff.

04-09-2022 11:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572005#Comment_119572005

Christ, I forgot he was in it!!!

kowloon · 05-09-2022 12:06am

Ders mor to Oirland den dis.

thomas 123 · 05-09-2022 10:19am

Given that reviews are being actively hidden and scores manipulated I have lost all faith that this series will be any bit good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWdhtDarwrI&ab_channel=RyanKinel-RKOutpost

sekiro · 05-09-2022 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573152#Comment_119573152

If this is true then it's just embarrassing from Amazon and from these review aggregator sites.

I think we all understand that user reviews aren't exactly a good metric for judging the quality of something especially when there is controversy around. I would argue that professional critic reviews are becoming less and less reliable these days too. However, if you have a website that is open for the public to review shows and movies then just let the public submit their scores and they land wherever they land. Dumb people will leave dumb reviews but the site is open for reviews so what do they want?

Is this kind of service extended to other movies? Could a low budget indie movie contact the review aggregators and request that a few hundred negative reviews be deleted? If not then why should billion dollar companies be allowed to do it?

People need to get the idea out of their head that this is being done to stop "trolls". It's being done to protect profits.

thomas 123 · 05-09-2022 10:41am

I’ve watched a good bit about this - the early access screening critics will always review positively or at least not be critical(ironically) as if they did they would not be invited to further events.

Amazon owns IDMB so that covers why IDMB do it. They did it for Star Wars also.

Other websites also have access to exclusive content that they would lose if they don’t do what’s asked id imagine.

Nody · 05-09-2022 10:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573211#Comment_119573211

It's been ongoing for a while now and yes it tends to be for big dollar movies (while it's unlikely a indie movie would make as big splash I'm sure in this era of the internet it would have been noticed and propagated). Youtube removed over a million downvotes for example on the first LoTR trailer as well; rotten tomato has removed negative reviews as well. It's simply a fact with all big review sites that if something big gets major negative reviews it's trolls / bots and they are removed.

Brian? · 05-09-2022 10:52am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573152#Comment_119573152

That fella was so annoying I'm now a fan of the show.

johnny_ultimate · 05-09-2022 10:55am

The whole 'critics only liked it because they got it early' or the preposterous 'because they were paid by the studio to like it' is one of the laziest of internet conspiracy theories.

Early access to any given film, television show, game, album etc... is the industry standard and has been for a very long time. In television, in fact, critics are often given access to several more episodes of the show than the public will initially see so they can make a more informed judgment about what is ultimately a long-form piece of storytelling (I believe it was only the two in this case though).

There are just as many examples of critics with early access giving shows mediocre or bad reviews as there are positive ones. Amazon did a fairly bad job distributing their 'review funds' properly if the middling Wheel of Time reviews are anything to go by ;) Critics also got early access to Michael Flatley's Blackbird last week and absolutely excoriated it.

Who you shouldn't trust are the fan blogs, youtubers, influencers etc... who will give any piece of shite a favourable tweet in return for early access, or indeed the ones who will weaponise this sort of material for clickbait or culture war fodder. But I can assure you any decent critic with a reputable publication couldn't care less what Amazon thinks of their review, and they certainly didn't receive a brown envelope for the privilege.

Brian? · 05-09-2022 10:58am

IMDB ratings:

Game of Thrones - 9.2

The Sopranos - 9.2

That's all you need to know. The Sopranos is the greatest TV program ever made. Game of Thrones fell to pieces after series 4.

thomas 123 · 05-09-2022 11:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573302#Comment_119573302

Maybe they are not paid or asked or directed in any way, but maybe its just a fear thing or unwritten rule.

I'm struggling to find any early reviews that stray away from buzz words like bold, ambitious, or breathtaking and actually dive into the story or performances of the cast. Can you? Can you find anything at all balanced from those early reviews? I know there are some critics who destroy it.

I personally didn't think the first two episodes were terrible at all, it takes time to introduce us to the characters etc and it looks great so my judgement was reserved. I love LOTR but would not know the detailed lore outside the movies/the hobbit and some games.

silverharp · 05-09-2022 11:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573311#Comment_119573311

presumably you need to dig into it, if people loved up until the last series then the weighted average would still be high, the last episode got a 4 rating on IMBD

breezy1985 · 05-09-2022 11:33am

Hollywood being untrustworthy doesn't come as much of a shock really.

Don't Oscar judges also get an absolute ton of "gift baskets" leading up to the voting.

I never knew Amazon owned IMDB though that's interesting.

Brian? · 05-09-2022 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573428#Comment_119573428

There are episodes is season 5 getting 9.9

johnny_ultimate · 05-09-2022 11:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573410#Comment_119573410

Just a selection from a cursory glance...

"The first episode struggles slightly under the weight of establishing the world and setting up all of its threads; some of which are more interesting than others. The forbidden romance between Elf Arondir (Ismael Cruz Córdova) and human Bronwyn (Nazanin Boniadi) in the Southlands, for example, is quite flat in comparison with Galadriel's compelling mission of revenge. The Harfoots, meanwhile, straddle a thin line between charming and mawkish"

https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220830-rings-of-power-review-a-visually-staggering-but-flawed-epic

"The first two episodes demonstrate some pretty major issues that the cast and crew need to address in season 1’s six remaining episodes."

https://www.polygon.com/23329258/lord-rings-power-review-episode-release

"Two episodes is not a huge sample size, and the excitement level of the show leans much more on the spectacle than on the stories. Amazon showed the first two episodes to many critics (including this one) in movie theater settings, the better to emphasize those enormous production values; revisiting the series at home on a much smaller screen, some of the plots felt substantially less thrilling without that visual wow factor."

‘The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power’ Is a Fantasy Series to Rule Them All – Rolling Stone

And just to note, The Washington Post - actually owned by Bezos! - gave it a pretty harsh review (paywalled unfortunately) :)

"The performances are serviceable but unremarkable, while the dialogue is particularly corny and inartful, with too many intoned monologues about the search for “the light” or the ever-vague nature of evil."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tv/2022/08/31/lord-rings-tv-show-review/

breezy1985 · 05-09-2022 11:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573508#Comment_119573508

The forbidden romance between Elf Arondir (Ismael Cruz Córdova) and human Bronwyn (Nazanin Boniadi) in the Southlands

I couldn't give a fk about their romance but I find their scenes the most interesting. We never got to see much of the perspective of actual life on the frontier. It's pretty cool watching the creeping doom and very similar to the White Walkers the way people are ignoring it.

The only problem is all this mystery and dread of an unseen foe building up to a reveal that the viewer already knows the answer to.

thomas 123 · 05-09-2022 12:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573508#Comment_119573508

I think this helps my point, all these reviews are synopsis of what we saw really with some attempt to look critical. Maybe thats the way early reviews are supposed to be?

Like "The first two episodes demonstrate some pretty major issues that the cast and crew need to address in season 1’s six remaining episodes." Tell us? Again maybe this is not to have spoilers but I think some pretty major issues could command a couple of lines more, right?

johnny_ultimate · 05-09-2022 12:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573616#Comment_119573616

That quote you cited is actually from one of the more critical reviews - the reviewer lays out their concerns and issues at quite great length!

But yes, they are all early reviews of a currently incomplete work. We've all only seen a quarter of the first season - that's like reviewing a book based on its opening chapters. It's a small sample. No critic or indeed viewer has the capacity to give the entire show a definitive review based on that, and can only really offer first impressions. But there's nothing unique about Rings of Power in that respect - there are many good sites out there that review TV on an episode-by-episode basis, as that is the nature of television.

silverharp · 05-09-2022 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573499#Comment_119573499

the show was all the rage, I wouldnt remember the details, I wouldnt have watched it only my wife liked it but if that was the view of the people expected to watch it, I think that's fine. The main thing I look for is the relative view of critics v audience , if they both give high scores like Better Call Saul or Top Gun, makes sense. If the critics love it but the audience hate it, there is something wrong with it, and if the audience love it but critics hate it then then it will be fun. Generally an audience score under 70 means it will be iffy for me

silverharp · 05-09-2022 1:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573302#Comment_119573302

your last paragraph is a bit prescriptive , most people find reviewers say on Youtube that they know have similar tastes or they at least respect that they give a best honest opinion, Jeremy Jahns for instance is a Vanilla enough reviewer but I know he will give me a sense of a show. Then on the other side say The Quartering or Nerdrotic, I believe they thought it was great that Amazon were doing a lotr but as time went on went sour on it as it was looking like it was going to depart from the lore, and the studio drama etc. so there were red flags and who doesnt enjoy a bit of schadenfreude watching a large corporate taken down a peg or 2 by these plucky youtubers? and lets face it they are more often right than wrong, if they kept calling 9/10 shows or films dogs in advance they would lose credibility with their audience.

As for now the drama around the show is more interesting than the show itself which doesnt say much about the show.

johnny_ultimate · 05-09-2022 2:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574121#Comment_119574121

The Quartering is the very worst side of YouTube. Most charitably he's a cynical hack exploiting his audience's biases and bigotry to create vacuous 'anti-woke' clickbait. A less charitable reading is he's whipping up hate against women and minorities with hateful bile (his dozens and dozens of videos about Brie Larson would be comical if the crusade wasn't so fundamentally creepy). A toxic presence best ignored.

But yes, there are good, smart, genuine YouTubers out there too. There are also 'influencers' who'll show up and say something favourable in return for access to an early screening and being allowed tweet about it when the social media embargo lifts. I'm specifically talking about that class, who on the whole are far less trustworthy and genuine than the average critic at a reputable publication.

breezy1985 · 05-09-2022 2:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574121#Comment_119574121

Like you say at the start you find a YouTuber with similar tastes so what is "right" 9/10 times is only right for you and other viewers of the channel and could be wrong 9/10 times for someone else.

Then you have the "rage" reviewers who attract people by just rabbiting peoples already formed hatred of a show they haven't seen yet.

Brian? · 05-09-2022 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573906#Comment_119573906

I’m the opposite, I do my best to ignore audience scores. Broad appeal isn’t a predictor of quality IMO.

Tony EH · 05-09-2022 3:24pm

Caught the first two episodes. Episode One was was pretty terrible, but while I was disappointed, I wasn't the least bit surprised. I'm not in any way what one could call a Lord of the Rings expert, but Galadriel simply feels all wrong to me. The Harfoots are absolutely awful and the elves came off a irritating in general.

Episode two was a definite step up, however, and the chap playing Elrond appears to be coming into his own, even if he jars badly with Hugo Weaving's interpretation. But given that this series is set thousands of years before 'The Hobbit' we can, probably, let that go like we have to do with Galadriel. The introduction of the Dwarven kingdom was the highlight of the episode and remains the most interesting part of the show so far.

The very definition of a mixed bag is this. It's certainly not good, by any means, but it's also not awful either. There's some difficulty with the terrible dialogue and stilted deliveries of most of the cast and the idea to make the Harfoot's Irish was a venture that should have been nipped in the bud. What the hell is Lenny Henry doing there too? 😄

In its favour, though, it looks well and at hundreds of millions for each episode, one would expect that. The overriding issue is that this is a brand new script that has very little to do with Tolkein's writing about the period in question and the production has met with some pushback from the Tolkein estate, which doesn't bode well.

Difficult to know just how all this will end up really, but at just 8 episodes, we won't have that long to wait and see.

nix · 05-09-2022 3:51pm

I've seen shows given poor critiques far less than what this is getting, after just two episodes also, get instant cancelled. The latest Resi evil show is a good example. Id bet this show is already cancelled, they likely just wont announce it until after the entire season airs.

I havent watched this yet myself, ive given up giving shows that focus mostly on wokeness any interest. As they never deliver anything other than poor story telling and cringe acting. Unless the few reviewers i trust give it the thumbs up, ill just watch something else in my overwhelming backlog. I actually havent found a trusting review yet on this that didnt pretty much call it a polished turd, which is disappointing as i love the LOTR movies and was actually excitied when this was announced.

Ah well..

Nody · 05-09-2022 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119574900#Comment_119574900

Two seasons are already ordered; it's the final three seasons that could be cancelled.

breezy1985 · 05-09-2022 5:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119575052#Comment_119575052

Star Trek Discovery gets cancelled at the end of every one of it's 5 seasons 🤣

Glebee · 05-09-2022 6:20pm

Only saw the first episode but found myself enjoying it if im honest. Helps thats is gorgeous to look at. Ive read all of Tolkeins stuff I do not enjoy alot of the early stuff set before The Hobbitt. Looking forward to catching Ep 2 tonight