Lord of the Rings - [Amazon] *Spoilers*

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579645#Comment_119579645

I know you are a moderator - and i have thus far never been in trouble on boards (to my knowlegde) - I am being respectful

However - You make a grandiose claim previously - I call on you to provide evidence, in a respectful way

You respond telling me to look at Quarterings Channel

So, yes i will just go look at 5112 videos and find the moment Quartering is misogynistic - You effectively say the same about drinker so, il just go look at the hundreds of videos he has uploaded, across his two channels.

Just to clarify, this is not how the game works. If you say X is true. And i say, prove it. The Burden of proof, is on you to demonstrate, that X, is in fact, true. Telling me it is, assuring me it is, and pointing me in the general direction of a library (confidently telling me the truth is in there, in a highly nonspecific way) - ??? No - thats not how it works

Remaining respectful but firm in my convictions and criticism - i shall respond with Hitchens Razor

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579750#Comment_119579750

Well posting those dirge "reviews" does nothing for discussion outside of its own echo chamber comment sections.

Those "reviews" could be auto-scripted by an average bot with 90% accuracy.

Those moany gits have needed new material after their first dozen videos. But their loyal fans somehow keep buying it.

Wrongway1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573152#Comment_119573152

Haven't watched the show but I'd almost suspect this guy hasn't either he says in the first line that persons of his kind were ready to give 1 star reviews after seeing what...3-4 mins of preview footage?

His rant is well off the mark, aggregator websites can sure have their detractors but their purpose is to give a ballpark of what people think having viewed. Eliminating suspect reviews is hardly poor practice when trying to determine accuracy which for the likes of this is always bound to be a very tricky task.

The guy can't wait any little while though he believes the general consensus is it's rubbish and he wants that displayed immediately despite the fact 6 hours? 3/4 of the piece? hasn't even aired yet.

Nody

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579863#Comment_119579863

For some odd reason such sites tend to only remove negative reviews however (incl. Youtube etc.) and RT is still at 39% after 20k user reviews.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579826#Comment_119579826

I'm not a moderator on this forum, just another poster :) I respect you being respectful too - I always endeavour to be friendly and non-personal in my discussions with other posters.

In The Quartering's case, the channel is the proof I offer. You don't need to watch a minute of his videos (and I wouldn't recommend it, as they're inane nonsense) - just scroll down through the recent thumbnails and video titles and you can see this is a fellow with deep-rooted issues against women and minorities. The topics and targets he picks are all the proof needed.

I will do my best to dig up the previous video from The Critical Drinker I watched. Alas, the search function on this website makes such things difficult!

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579761#Comment_119579761

How they handle Sauron will be what decides its fate I reckon.

If they do some wonky romantic heart-throb or anti-hero stuff it'll be the final nail in its coffin.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579883#Comment_119579883

It has been covered quite extensively by several Youtube Reviewers Toxic Misogynistic Youtube Propagandists that

• IMDB (owned by Amazon) is screening its reviews - there is only 80 odd reviews listed on LOTR-TROP - which is impossible to believe - also its star rating is continuing to rise from a low level
• Rotten Tomatos is an enigma to me - most of the comments are negative yet it is rising there too, slow but surely
• Criticism by us lowly fans is being conflated with Toxic Fandom, Racism, Bigotry, and misogynism
• Amazon has disabled the ability of Amazon users to Rate the show
• Several have also highlighted that when you watch anything else on Amazon - the moment the show ends, it will immediately bring you to LOTR-TROP and begin the first episode - this is being speculated as a way of boosting watch figures

Nothing is genuine, aside from what you actually think when you watch it - i gave it 3/10 for eps 1 & 2 some posts back - i hope it improves but i cannot see it happening. And the censorship of fans (coupled with accusations above) - that disgusts me altogether

on the IMDB issue - here it is as of now

so - wait and see - also seems several reviews removed as it was 80 yesterday - no way to prove as i didnt screengrab - star rating was 5 at one stage

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579747#Comment_119579747

Well if your going to throwing sad shte like "Mary Sue" around everytime a woman kills the bad guy then people are gonna keep thinking your sexist.

A man had to save her from drowning. How does that fit into your Mary Sue thing ?

Is he super Mary Sue cause he saved Mary Sue ?

Thought the first 2 eps were decent. Visually it looks amazing so I'm going to keep watching.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579907#Comment_119579907

I'de agree there. If the rumour that he is the guy on the boat is true I'll be giving up.

I still think it's the so far unseen "Eminem" character though which is another strong rumour out there.

Padre_Pio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119578863#Comment_119578863

We're two episodes in and this nonsense is cropping up.

Time to bow out of this thread and all online reviews and opinions. I'm just going to watch this and enjoy it. Sometimes it's good to be ignorant of the canon and backstories

a_squirrelman

I liked the first two episodes, I read the books and loved the movies when I was a teenager but I find those movies unwatchable these days. And The Hobbit ones are worse.

These first two episodes were enjoyable, visuals were lovely and the pacing was good.

I remember back when the trailer came out many people losing it about unbearded dwarf women and black people so I stopped paying attention. Hopefully now after seeing it those people can chill out.

Looking forward to where they go with it, and very curious about who this oul fella is. Radegast? One of the blue wizards? Or Sauron himself?

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579898#Comment_119579898

i appreicate your words - i am genuinely being respectful but i find some of the backlash against backlashes quite tiring - that said im here, and contributing to it!

I think we have a genuine difference of opinion here. I have not watched much of Quarterings material - mainly drinker, nerdrotic myself - but i do know quartering from - and i think a suggestion that he is a misogynist - is erroneous. He is at worst right wing, and a conservative

As for his thumbnails - again not seeing it - iv watched a few of his short clips where he attacks obvious woke, ultra left wing SJW people - As a left winger myself i am often conflicted - While i am seriously left wing, i hate what the left has become

This is a segway

• Brexit is destroying our nearest neighbor, with whom we share a land border.
• thanks to the incoming UKPM, the destruction will probably damage Ireland
• Ireland has a properly right wing coalition for the first time in generations
• America is being consumed by culture war with the rise of Trumpism, and Tea-party-esque MTG type politicians
• Trump may win the next election
• There is an ACTUAL LAND WAR IN EUROPE

Meanwhile - the left is very concerned! (as it should be) - what are they concerned about though?

• People should put their pronouns on their twitter BIO or else they are transphobic
• JK Rowling should be excised from the franchise she created because her opinion differs from ours
• Anyone who disagrees with us on twitter needs to be cancelled - anyone who disagrees with this, needs to be cancelled -
• Fandoms filled with Toxic white men are ruining entertainment and criticize when we OH SO AWKWARDLY correct their patriarchal TV shows
• BLM should be allowed to riot because they totally deserve it, and nothing bad will come of said rioting. Absolutely nothing, trust us (will there not be a backlash on the right that will totally undermine the cause of social democracy) - NO - ye bloody RACIST..
• every white person in the world should feel guilty and if they dont, they are racists

So - yea, i am conflicted to see a right winger attack the above. Cause i am technically on the same side as these people. And i am Liberal. I treat trans men and women with respect. i am not racist, nor am i misogynist - but i am about free speech too - Freedom is how free your opponent is. And the cause of SJW Politics (wanting to burn books, censor, and cancel/destroy livelihoods) - this happened before - and it is NOT LEFTWING

nix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579968#Comment_119579968

I have no issue with her killing the troll, i have issue with how quick and easy she kills the troll.... on her own... within 10 seconds..

And yeah, on the getting saved, well, she was tuckered out from swimming across an ocean 😄

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580106#Comment_119580106

Well, technically it wasn't on her own either, as one of her teammates gives her a lift using his sword ;)

TBH, the scene was very similar to Legalos vs the war elephant in LotR. The Galadriel scene is shorter for sure, but in line with what we've seen elven warriors manage before.

https://youtu.be/132WIdxvgdo

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580106#Comment_119580106

Did you see how many orcs Legolas took out at close quarters with a bow in Helms Deep while elf's were dropping all round him.

Is Legolas a Mary Sue ?

Edit:snap

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580154#Comment_119580154

I would admit Legolas was over the top - although i liked how when he walked on snow, he left no footprints - that was very Tolkien from TFOTR Book 2 - they sadly left that out of the Rings of Power - wouldnt criticize them for it though- that would be nitpicking

But yea he was WAY OTT in LOTR Trilogy, and his inclusion in the Hobbit felt forced

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580225#Comment_119580225

So he is a Mary Sue

BruteStock

Yes, legolas was a Gary Stu.

His surfing down castle steps on a shield and all the rest were low points in those movies. I saw those movies in school with all my school mates and nobody cared that much for legolas.

The idea that not liking a character on screen means you don't like millions of real people who share that make believe persons gender is obviously total horse manure.

It also says the inverse is true which is any woman should like a woman character by virtue of them being a woman. Obviously more nonsense!

nix

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580162#Comment_119580162

Yeah he kinda is, though he has more style 😆 and shooting orcs in the head with a bow is different than taking down a large troll. Id be more annoyed at how he never runs out of arrows 😜

Johnny had a better example with the Elephant, but id say prior to that, all of his fighting just fell under the category of skilled elven archer. Plus the elephant was the cherry on the top to conclude the big epic battle to finish off the trilogy. Twas fitting.. no?

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580239#Comment_119580239

I think it depends on the level of the characteristics necessary for us to call him a Mary Sue

• Legolas: an elf. Fast and agile (as written by the author) - completes crazy moves during battle - unrealistic - kinda Mary Sue -esque 5/10
• Michael Burnham: Spocks Sister (who was never mentioned previously) - effects events of galactic significance in 2 universes - is the only one that can save the federation in both the 23rd and 31st century - the most perfect of all starfleet officers - the one, the only, space jesus - 10/10
• Rey: With no training defeats Kylo Ren in Episode 7 - with sod all training, manages to survive episode 8 - develops force abilities (healing and teleportation) that we have never seen before - and using 2 lightsabers destroys EVERY SITH LORD WHO EVER LIVED CURRENTLY EMBODYING DARTH SIDIOUS (the single greatest Sith who ever lived) - then takes the Skywalker name - because.... 1075/10

So - maybe they are all Mary Sue's - by degree they differ IMHO

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580277#Comment_119580277

The bit that got me is as the orcs get over the wall he is still using the bow to shoot orcs point blank like it's a revolver.

Thing about Legolas is people laugh it off and say it was a silly part of a great movie but now it's ALL CAPS screaming and raging on YouTube about Tolkien DESTROYED canon RUINED bla bla blaa.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580162#Comment_119580162

I think him and Gimli having a competition to see how many Orcs they could kill was the worst part of the original trilogy. Most heroes in action movies have elements of Gary Stu about them but I suspect they wouldnt have had Aragorn doing the surfing on orcs part in the same movie as he was the serious main character.

I've found the House of Dragon not too bad after being savaged by the same online critics that piled onto the Rings of Power, so hope they are wrong about this show too.

Hate just sells better on youtube unfortunately. I see even Elon Musk is getting in on the act, never a man to miss an opportunity.

liamtech

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580310#Comment_119580310

Legolas was written as a warrior - having him be a mary sue esque warrior, and completing tasks that are impossible is one thing - its silly but fine

Galdriel is the Lady of Lorien - bearer of a great Elvish ring, which she uses to preserve her kingdom - she inspires great courage, and stands against evil. She turns down the Ring of Power due to her inherent virtue - having her running around in body armor, screaming for vengeance at all costs is literary vandalism - they have taken someone angelic and virtuous and turned her into Red Sonja

All they had to do, was create a new female character, specifically for the show, - and none of this criticism would have merit - it wouldnt be happening at all - this new character could have been linked to Galadriel. A childhood friend, who wishes to fight evil, and is encouraged by galadriel -

It would have worked perfectly - but they bought the rights to the material - they are doing what they want and **** anyone who criticizes - we are all 'toxic'

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119579121#Comment_119579121

Then you would not care it it was called "Owner of the Jewlery"

I never get this, people coming into extablished IPs and complaining that existing fans are upset about showrunners gutting the material. The only reason you have a show to watch is because of the books and the fans of such etc.

This isn't gatekeeping but there is a difference from trying to make a Tolkien show and failing Vs rewriting characters and lore so much that it conflicts with decades of knowledge.

If they shot for the stars on an adaption and failed, well crap.

As it is they are telling their own story, in conflict with existing lore, and calling everyone who dislikes it a Troll/Bigot/Sexist. The exact same as they did with Discovery

Tony EH

@johnny_ultimate

But again, there's more to the character than just this 30 seconds or so. Indeed, the whole sequence shows how she has become so obsessed and fanatical about her quest that she puts her own team in danger and therefore loses their trust - a notable character flaw from the off. She's right about her cause, but she has failed to convince others due to her blind determination and quest for revenge.

Perhaps the better way of writing that scene is if somebody else had to kill the snowman instead of Galadriel and show, clearly, that her obsession was at odds with her leadership which was putting "her own team in danger". The way it plays out is just another tired and cliched effort at making someone do something pretty effortlessly to appeal to "kewl" and "awesome" chanters in the audience. It also makes her team look like they just don't want to follow her cos reasons. Their case should have been stated far more strenuously, because as that scene plays out, they're the ones that come off somewhat unreasonable because Galadriel has to be "right". I'll admit, I rolled my eyes when she did her flashy moves and took out Mr. Troll without breaking a sweat, while all the blokes just stood there like gormless fools.

In any case there is a definite problem with movies and shows these days where main characters have to be like a Schwarzenegger, were every physical task ahead of them is handled with simplistic ease and enemies are dispatched with a few moves. Where failures are minor and successes are so over the top that one has to just ignore the silliness of them if they're to get anything out of what they're viewing at all.

It just comes down to lazy writing and far to many of these tent pole IPs suffer badly from that.

But I'd say to all the whingers dying to use "woke" in every bloody topic, they'd do well to remember that Galadriel has to be saved by some bloke she just met in episode 2 when she makes a balls of it on the raft and nearly ends up drowning because she's acting like a bossy arse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580239#Comment_119580239

And people called them out as being mandatory "Cool Legolas Moments". They were over the top and forced and people did acknowledge it.

PhiloCypher

Could Galadrials Legolas level power set so far, be down to a rights issue I wonder. I read earlier in the thread that the rights they have for this period of middle earth history is patchy at best. Could it be that they would copyright infringe if they have her display any of the powers she displays in the books they don't have the rights too , like the Simarilion. And it's that and not any desire to turn her into Xena Warrior princess that has them putting a sword in her hand.

Just a thought .

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580162#Comment_119580162

That Legolas scene in Lord of the Rings is absolutely absurd. It's one of the prime examples of CGI allowing directors to indulge in their more stupid ideas.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119580354#Comment_119580354

"She turns down the Ring of Power due to her inherent virtue - having her running around in body armor, screaming for vengeance at all costs is literary vandalism"

Yeah, by the 2nd Age (when this is set) it's against character.

She was an arogant piece of work in the 1st Age though and would definitely have failed that test.

Still never presented as a warrior, mind