Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power [Amazon] *Spoilers*

silverharp

I wonder would the original movies had they been released today have done as well? If you were a kid/teenager in ~60's-80s the books were popular, D&D etc. so the movies had a ready base/nostalgia base and the effects for the time were spectacle level. In broad brush LOTR is less important for under 40's? so even a competent show would be liked but viewership would still skew to a show with dragons and bewbs?

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604566#Comment_119604566

This article gives a very good explanation of the timeline issue

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2022/09/11/amazons-the-rings-of-power-is-playing-fast-and-loose-with-middle-earths-second-age-timeline/?sh=7103c4ef4713

Sauron returned from wherever he was hiding around SA 1,000 (1,000 years into the Second Age) and began setting up shop in Mordor, gathering his armies of orcs and trolls and other baddies to him.

Elendil was born in SA 3119, over two-thousand years later, long after Sauron had returned to Middle-earth and long after the forging of the Rings by Celebrimbor, who was tricked by Sauron, disguised as Annatar, and blinded by his own ambition.

But he concedes

So the show is taking the forging of the Rings, the return of Sauron, the fall of Eregion and presumably the eventual capture of Sauron and the fall of Númenor all into one show and one timeline that will span a very short amount of time. This is quite a radical compression of the Second Age, though if done properly I can see how it would work over several seasons.

He also has some fun with the scene where Galadriel and Elendil discover that Sauron’s mark is actually a map of the Southlands.

Did the Black Speech note really say that the plan was to create a realm where evil could not merely endure, but thrive? Is that how Sauron and his orcs and lieutenants speak to one another while twirling their villain mustaches?

“Not just endure you fool! It will be a realm where evil will thrive! Bwahahahaha!”

“Oh I love it, Sauron! So diabolical! So despicable!”

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608484#Comment_119608484

Everyone's view on something as unimportant as a television show is worthwhile and it'll eventually come down to whether someone enjoys it or not and there'll be many reasons for doing either.

As far as 'Game of Thrones' is concerned, I never read any of the books and the first I heard of the story was when HBO announced the TV series, which I enjoyed throughout its entire run, even if S08 was a wee bit "rushed" in its execution. I kinda dismissed the series as Tolkien with tits at the beginning, but was very much enjoying it once I'd settled in. Couldn't care less about its deviation from a source material that I never experienced and that, no doubt, helped me to like the series over all more than people who had invested their time in JRR Martin's novels.

As for 'Rings of Power', I'm getting very little out of it so far. But not because I'm some Tolkien fanatic or anything. I haven't read 'Lord of the Rings' since the 80's and have read 'The Hobbit' only twice since then too. The last time being about 5 years ago and, frankly, it was a bit of a struggle because it was so damned childish. It was written specifically for kids after all. Jackson's LotR movies were enjoyable enough, but I still never felt like they captured Tolkien's world that well at the end of the day. So I have no real investiture in this series at all from either a literary or cinematic POV. However, it still isn't resonating with me in any real way for reasons that are outside such states of mind, as it were. It just, so far, hasn't been terribly good.

thomas 123

Looks like metactitic is hiding the reviews below 6 now . On mobile anyway.

ollkiller

It would have to be the worst thing ever for me not to watch this as it is so visually stunning. The level of detail is fantastic and the colours. Story is only ok but episode 3 set a few things in motion that could elevate the show. Level of vitriol levelled at is both predictable and ridiculous. Will happily watch it and hopefully the story improves.

seraphimvc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119608357#Comment_119608357

See I would consider myself among the 'casuals', I read/like/respect LotR book and Jackson trilogy and I know some bits and bobs of First/Second ages by reading some wikia back then thats it - I am open for anything I mean if it is a brilliant well-made Karen revenge drama I would watch it lol.

seraphimvc

What annoys me most is actually...so ya Tolkien invented the stereotypical fantasy elf...

Like, seriously, this show has all the ugliest elves I have seen in any show/film 😂

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119610123#Comment_119610123

Jackson got the look of the elves right. The execs at Amazon have buggered that up completely.

Dufflecoat Fanny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119610123#Comment_119610123

Ya they look like the various ages of Liberace or Gary Glitter with those stupid hairdos

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119610193#Comment_119610193

they are basically humans with clip on ears. Galadriel is supposed to be 6'2 or 6'4 and the men are taller.

Brief_Lives

Spoiler Warning

So the orcs are building a deathstar..

And Gandalf can't do much, even though he arrives looking like a million year old space wizard??

Haha..

Curse These Metal Hands

Agree with the general consensus that it looks stunning but that's about it.

Bad acting in parts, cringy dialogue and flat unlikeable characters. Really disappointing.

BruteStock

The show runners must have an issue with elves having long blonde hair and blue eyes. I can't think of any other reason why they all look like Vulcans 🤨

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611045#Comment_119611045

its more the quality of the acting for me. In LOTR, Hugo Weaving, Cate Blanchett and Lee Pace portrayed their characters as being not human….like a superior and transcendent race. In the way the spoke and carried themselves. Here they are just humans with pointy ears.

I know that the shows creators wanted unknowns in all the roles, but it’s just not good

BruteStock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611085#Comment_119611085

I think they had no choice when it came to casting unknown actors because its a long ten year commitment. Will Poulter who was originally cast as elrond dropped out for this reason. Now he's in an upcoming Marvel movie.

The elves are so human-like they don't feel any different to the people of numenor. Imo the halbrand actor would be a good elf.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611147#Comment_119611147

He probably would, yes. The elves were disliked, at least in part, for their arrogance and superiority. Galadriel doesn’t pull off that nuance, and just ends up being argumentative

But if you look at the early episodes of GoT it’s much the same I guess. The actors really mature through the seasons and add nuance and depth to their characters. It’s a little jarring to go back and watch them in S1E1.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611147#Comment_119611147

Looking at pictures of Will Poulter it seems like he would have looked more like Hugo weaving's version of Elrond, it appears they just gave up and went for the first big name for the recasting.

The latest thing bugging me is episode 2, when the elves arrived at Moria, they casually stroll over to the door(which is supposed to be invisible?) with no horses, no gear, no bags, no swords, no bows, nothing. Its again a stark lack of attention to detail in my opinion. The distance is half the world right? Like twice the distance the hobbits covered in the fellowship?

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119611045#Comment_119611045

The Noldor have black hair, not blonde.

corkie

@thomas 123 when the elves arrived at Moria, they casually stroll over to the door(which is supposed to be invisible?) with no horses, no gear, no bags, no swords, no bows, nothing.

Not the same door used in LOTR (yet to be build), just because we don't see horses, doesn't mean they weren't used.

https://screenrant.com/lotr-rings-of-power-doors-durin-moria-origin/

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Doors_of_Durin

We don't see characters eating much or using the facilities, we just assume they do.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612531#Comment_119612531

Okay, door aside the other issues still stand. There is no sense of it being any sort of hassle for them to make that journey, furthermore there is no sense that it would be a challenge for the other lad to get back, its all very casual imo.

nix

Yeah warping around to different destinations, its bad writing. It's what they started doing towards the end of GOT's also, where in the earlier seasons it would take them a season or two to get to their destination. I'm well aware not all journeys need to be shown and a jump in time is necessary, but in my mind, the entire story needs to make that jump in time, otherwise it just comes off as sloppy.

GOT done it in the beginning, and done it well, planning out your story or staying true to the detailed source material helped. ROP being this sloppy from the get go is worrying, it shows very little effort went into the planning of the story :(

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612248#Comment_119612248

Something tells me that Amazon doesn't give a toss about Tolkien's description of the races he created.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119613380#Comment_119613380

Absolutely, but if we are going to be pedants we should at least be correct.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119612876#Comment_119612876

There is no challenge to the journey. The elves control most middle earth. They aren’t any goblins, orca or trolls will to stick their heads out year because Sauron is off hiding.

There is no one to be scared of between Eriador and Moria. The few non elves in those lands are friends to the elves. What’s the point in showing them calmly walking or riding through the peaceful countryside in a completely uneventful way.

corkie

There is no one to be scared of between Eriador and Moria.

The locations are relatively close to each other?

This Lord of the Rings Middle-earth map can help you navigate The Rings of Power

Tolkien loved a map and you should too

https://nerdist.com/article/a-guide-to-rings-of-power-locations-middle-earth-lord-of-the-rings/

Eregion, Realm of the Elven-Smiths

Celebrimbor brings Elrond to this Elvish city along a river. He endeavors to build a great forge to make objects of both beauty and power (like rings, perhaps?). For some reason, this also requires a tower to be built and Celebrimbor simply doesn’t have the workforce to finish the project on his desired timeline. He and Elrond travel to nearby Khazad-Dûm to enlist the help of the dwarves in this great engineering feat.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119614362#Comment_119614362

That map isn’t Middle Earth at the time of the show. It’s after the world is bent and Numeanor is gone.

Edit: forgot that. I was wrong.

BruteStock

A good read...

And another one asking why the trolls of Nilbog I mean Harfoots are offensive but its behind a paywall unfortunately.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2022/09/12/the-rings-of-power-has-a-galadriel-problem/

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio/2022/09/13/rings-of-power-why-are-the-harfoots-hungry-simpletons-with-stage-irish-accents-we-ask-the-showrunners/

In fairness, it looks lovely. Just skip through the hobbit bits until Gandalf v0.1 kicks in proper. Be grand.

PTH2009

How come the Easterlings and other Men turned to the evil side are ignored for the most part in both this series and in the movies

On this series wasn't mad about episodes 1 and 2 but episode 3 really shot the series in the arm

corkie

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Easterlings

They had a small role in the movies?

The Complete History of the Easterlings | Tolkien Explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUxo-rYa7XU

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617740#Comment_119617740

Would love a series about them and showing the interactions with the orcs etc

corkie

https://www.cbr.com/lotr-rings-of-power-stranger-wizard-prime-video/

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Blue_Wizards

However, in a text found in The Peoples of Middle-earth, alternate set of names are given, Morinehtar and Rómestámo (or Rome(n)star), "Darkness-slayer" and "East-helper". It is not clear whether these names were intended to be replacements for Alatar and Pallando, or whether they had a second set of names (for instance, their names used in Middle-earth).

A good name for 'Meteor Man'?

The Blue Wizards are said to possibly have started a cult of magic in the far east of Middle-Earth. It could be that this Wizard has returned from the East and what he learned there left him confused. While that would go against traditional J.R.R. Tolkien lore, The Rings of Power has already made some divergences from the established world to build the story the series is trying to tell.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617468#Comment_119617468

Well, they long had issues with Gondor and even before he set up shop in Mordor it was very easy for Sauron to exploit that. A lot of the details of that part of Middle Earth describe almost constant raids and regular battles.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617954#Comment_119617954

I’m telling ye, he’s an ex Balrog.

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119618544#Comment_119618544

goes through the case for that here

https://youtu.be/mySuzXuWqGs

corkie

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Balrogs

Second Age

Sauron gathered "all the evil things of the days of Morgoth that remained on earth and beneath it", starting the Accursed Years, however no Balrogs are mentioned as being active at this time.

In later writings, however, Christopher Tolkien notes that:

In the margin my father wrote: 'There should not be supposed more than say 3 or at most 7 ever existed.

As Balrogs feature more in 'The Silmarillion' and don't think amazon have the rights to that.

How powerful was the Balrog?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_DpjEhufhM

The Balrogs of Morgoth | Tolkien Explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLBd1Z4ktL8

Yes, I know one appeared in trailers early in the year, but that could have been a flashback?

breezy1985

Latest episode definitely has me interested and the pace has finally picked up (except the boring Harfeet)

Seeing Numenor was cool and the beginning of Mordor.

Some of the production is terrible though like the amateurish overuse of slow motion.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119619540#Comment_119619540

Yeah, why don’t we see any other Balrogs? Because they changed form are the capture of Morgoth. I suspect this Maia is sent for penance after some Balrogging. Even better would be if it was the Balrog Glorfindel killed.

liamtech

all joking and criticism or the show aside

I love how the debate around the show, has sparked a chat on Tolkien lore - discussions of Maia, the fact that Sauron and Gandalf are TECHNICALLY The same species

liamtech

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_gFEN-GhiQ

fantastic video

liamtech

Episode 4 - Poor IMHO - 4/10 - but average for the series

The Good:

• Adar - interesting character, and one of the few plot threads that has me interested
• Mordor - Yea the orcs seizing the land - interested in this
• The sword - which is now OH SO CLEARLY a morgul blade
• there are no Harfoots - so this gives the episode a bonus point

The Bad

• Time jumps - if we assume that all plots are concurrent then i have to believe the Elves have master DE-materialization Transporter technology. Aside from the fact that the construction of Celebrimbors 'thing' looks well under way - Elrond once again BEAMS to Moria
• the pacing is literal madness for this episode - once again what is interesting (Adar, the sword, etc) is short - and what is long, (everything else) is uninteresting
• I genuinely hate Galadriel - her literal madness as she climbs a tower - is insane - and she is a VERY annoying character
• Isildur and the sailors thread is wrecking my head -
• we dont see much of Halbrand - except for some reason he is released at the end
• The dialogue is pathetic
• Numenor, is Rome - I know Tolkien modeled it on Atlantis, etc - but the Themes, the design, etc - is more Roman than proto-Gondorian

anyway - interested to see what people think

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625610#Comment_119625610

I agree with you. I’m not as into the detail and so the timejumps and pacing doesn’t bother me as much. But Galadriel is the issue for me. She is less like an elf, and more like a pointy eared human with ADHD. I find her very annoying and that, along with some of the dodgy dialogue, may be the thing that loses me.

corkie

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Wave_%28episode%29

Halfway point and that episode was kind of tedious.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/rings-of-power-episode-3-recap-1235373897/

“The Rings of Power” is in no great rush to reveal its secrets, instead taking a cue from Gandalf and arriving precisely when it means to; few fictional worlds have put as much emphasis on the journey as they do on the destination, however, and so this remains a leisurely stroll through Middle-earth and beyond punctuated by occasional reminders of its epic scope rather than the other way around.

Is this season, just world building for future season's? Will we get to even see Sauron (or reveal of a character we have already met)?

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Jed_Brophy

Orc Vrath in Amazon's The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power series.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625610#Comment_119625610

To me Numenor just looks like they took the Jackson design language and added Roman togas but also a lot of eastern and southern Mediterranean symbolism and colours. Also lots of stereotypical Atlantis style fish and sea imagery (fish scale armour and the likes)

silverharp

Watching it later but..ha ha!

https://twitter.com/TheCriticalDri2/status/1570819314261069825

pjohnson

Clark might be the weakest actor in the whole cast. Thats a huge problem.

I thought she was young and might learn/improve on the job like Maisie Williams/Sophie Turner did on GOT.

Clark's 33 so unlikely to improve by now.

thomas 123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119627728#Comment_119627728

I think her character is beyond saving the be honest. It would not matter who’s playing her.

The White Wolf

I've said it already but after the start of this episode, I'm convinced they've taken inspiration for their orc make up from Coppolas Bram Stoker's Dracula, particularly the final monster form.

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119627883#Comment_119627883

Do I remember correctly that the final form was just a rubber suit?

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119625610#Comment_119625610

how can it be a morgue blade when there is no Morgul or any Ring Wraiths to create it?