Zimbabwe Coup

Odhinn

biko wrote: »

Say what you will of Mugabe, but he's no Idi Amin Dada

Idi had a sense of humour. Robert Gabriel - not so much.

A Little Pony

Why don't they have elections for the President? Oh right, the place is full of leftist lunatics.

riffmongous

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why don't they have elections for the President? Oh right, the place is full of leftist lunatics.

You know the democratic opposition are also left wing right?

WinnyThePoo

A Little Pony wrote: »

Why don't they have elections for the President? Oh right, the place is full of leftist lunatics.

You don't have a foggiest. Do you?

biko

diomed wrote: »

Salisbury has a nice ring to it for a capital city.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2B4tPfcTC4

Ipso

Mutant z wrote: »

The bastard deserves everything he gets for the huge misery he has inflicted on the country.

No one will lament his passing. Right?

Hande hoche!

Malaya Wet Dandruff wrote: »

Sort of.

Going to copy paste a conversation from my WhatsApp group. The one guy is a political buff.

• Grace Mugabe was being lined up but it does seem that Mugabe made the mistake of not including the head of the army in these plans.
• There is maybe an opportunity here for SA and the AU to try to steer towards the first option, and away from second, if they're smart enough to take it.

Think there will be a transitional government fairly soon. The Saffies can apply a tremendous amount of pressure on Zimbabwe through energy imports. Also Zuma would be only too happy to get some positive press for a change.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Think there will be a transitional government fairly soon. The Saffies can apply a tremendous amount of pressure on Zimbabwe through energy imports.

Source: I was born in SA.

SA is not the USA of Africa. Any pressure put on Zim would be a symbolic thing to show the world that they're doing something when in reality they're doing nothing. The only thing SA has ever done in relation to Zim is to monitor the legitimacy of one of their elections which was universally accepted as pointless and was actually laughed at.

How much did SA do when Bob started seizing white owned farms? Barely anything. SA politics at the time was looking to Zim as an "exemplary example" of sticking it to the colonialists.

It's this reason why SA will do next to nothing about the situation. Taking action against Zim will be seen as supporting the colonialists. SA politics is firmly rooted in racism.

Hande hoche! wrote: »

Also Zuma would be only too happy to get some positive press for a change.

African politics do not work the same as European / American politics. This is not a popularity contest.

Zuma does not care about positive press as he has surrounded himself with "cronies" who take the flak for him.

This is Zuma's go to response for any criticism directed at him.



OR

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

seamus wrote: »

Perhaps.

Coups aren't always a bad thing. It can lead to surprising reforms when someone just gets sick of a dictator's sh1t and manages to oust them. The guy who's next in line isn't always a despotic lunatic, he's just someone who's waiting for the despotic lunatic to die.

Even failed coups are often effective in damaging the current leadership's illusion of power, and/or bringing about reforms. Ireland's failed coup in 1916 is one example that brought about change. There was a failed one in Russia too, just before communism fell.

You cannot apply what happens in European coups to African coups unfortunately.

Research in comparative politics shows that military regimes in Africa tend to be worse than civilian governments in every respect. They're worse in terms of human rights, they're worse in terms of economic management, they even have a terrible record for losing wars. If a successful military coup occurs, the best possible option is a quick transition to democracy. The worst possible scenario is that the military loses faith in all other institutions, and so tries to rule the country itself.

Hande hoche!

Thanks for that Jason, food for thought. Know a pair of lads that are from Zimbabwe, will get their thoughts on the matter.

seagull

The general concensus seems to be that the main reason for acting was the fear that Grace would be given the job as Bob's successor.

Odhinn

Malaya Wet Dandruff wrote: »

OR

Has to be said, for a corrupt leader under some scrutiny, with five wives to keep happy, he's in great nick for 75.

ilkhanid

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

The problem with Zimbabwe is not too much socialism but not enough socialism.

Hmmm. Not sure about that. Capitalism, Socialism, everything in between..in so much of Africa it just turns into incompetence, inefficiency (if they're lucky) and usually kleptocracy.

nice_guy80

looks like there's no way back for comrade Mugabe

all despots' reigns eventually come to an end

Gatling

The slowest burning coup in African history.

The_Valeyard

Odhinn wrote: »

Has to be said, for a corrupt leader under some scrutiny, with five wives to keep happy, he's in great nick for 75.

True,

Still a cnut though.

Oldtree

Gatling wrote: »

The slowest burning coup in African history.

I was looking forward to a youtube video of a good eviceration that was due in this case. They've gotton far too civil there lately.

nice_guy80

he's 95, not 75

edit, he's 93

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Odhinn

nice_guy80 wrote: »

he's 95, not 75

edit, he's 93

Its Zuma thats 75.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Hande hoche!

Well Mugabe has been sacked by his party. Former V.P. is taking his place seemingly.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-42043370

Samaris

Mnangagwa has been close to Mugabe since the beginnjng and has the lovely and reassuring nickname of "the alligator", so I don't think he is going to be a great improvement.

Zimbabwe will, hopefully, eventually recover. This is not actually that abnormal for a country transisitioning from being ruled absolutely to relatively suddenly ruling itself. It takes longer than a couple if decades to make that transition;, to build solid institutions that can withstand pressure of despotic individuals and give stability to a country. It's easier if the country is surrounded by peaceful, relatively advanced democracies (as Ireland was, but Ireland needed help to benefit and the EU membership is likely what gave that support). Zimbabwe did not have that benefit.

seamus

Former V.P. doesn't sound like he's any better of a man. Expect some new show elections and a new dictatorship.

Hande hoche!

seamus wrote: »

Former V.P. doesn't sound like he's any better of a man. Expect some new show elections and a new dictatorship.

I would be expecting somewhat similar. With a more palatable face as the new VP, someone like Morgan Tsvangirai. A few ministerial positions for the opposition. Would be happy to be wrong.

Prune Tracy

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

"I miss the reign down in Africa" - R. Mugabe

Mugabe thinks he's still in command!

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/1119/921228-zimbabwe-mugabe/
Mugabe says events this week not a threat to his authority

Classic case of denial of what is really happening in the real world.
They'll have to actually arrest him before he gets the message.

mad muffin

Hitler: I’m not resigning.

Stalin: I’ll be taking over thank you very much.

retalivity

Looks like a man that hasn't a scooby about what's going on around him. 93 like.

Gatling

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Mugabe thinks he's still in command!


Classic case of denial of what is really happening in the real world.
They'll have to actually arrest him before he gets the message.

Wait till someone either shoots him or put a noose around neck ,I get the feeling he would still be telling them do you know who I am ,I'm the president of Zimbabwe

imme

The entire situation of Mugabe and Zimbabwe is deeply deeply depressing
The current scenario a non coup coup is a sick joke

Zimbabwe is being sold for cheap to China

The economy was previously wrecked by money grubbing Mugabe and his scum family

Torture, repression, murder, destroying a country and terrorising a people that sick old man should be kicked down the street

His scummy kids should be sent to the prison island off equatorial Guinea

paleoperson

imme wrote: »

The entire situation of Mugabe and Zimbabwe is deeply deeply depressing
The current scenario a non coup coup is a sick joke

Zimbabwe is being sold for cheap to China

The economy was previously wrecked by money grubbing Mugabe and his scum family

Torture, repression, murder, destroying a country and terrorising a people that sick old man should be kicked down the street

His scummy kids should be sent to the prison island off equatorial Guinea

I like how people in this country can be so strongly opinionated and passionate about things going on in completely different worlds because of what they read.

Chrongen

Don't know about this.

Mugabe has been in power for 37 years? Why now? And why at the same time a coup in Saudi Arabia and the forced resignation of Hariri in Lebanon.

Was there any popular uprising against Mugabe in the last few weeks or even months? I didn't hear about it.

The bitter struggles in the 70's and 80's between ZANU, ZAPU and ZANU-PF and the like of Joshua Nkomo and Setoli were awful.

Why now and so easy and so "peaceful"?

I am certain something different is afoot besides him just being toppled by his own party. The army stated he will be staying. It's only the press who are talking about him going.


Suspicious.

Chrongen

Gatling wrote: »

Wait till someone either shoots him or put a noose around neck ,I get the feeling he would still be telling them do you know who I am ,I'm the president of Zimbabwe

Things are rarely that simplistic.

Icemancometh

Chrongen wrote: »

Don't know about this.

Mugabe has been in power for 37 years? Why now? And why at the same time a coup in Saudi Arabia and the forced resignation of Hariri in Lebanon.

Was there any popular uprising against Mugabe in the last few weeks or even months? I didn't hear about it.

The bitter struggles in the 70's and 80's between ZANU, ZAPU and ZANU-PF and the like of Joshua Nkomo and Setoli were awful.

Why now and so easy and so "peaceful"?

I am certain something different is afoot besides him just being toppled by his own party. The army stated he will be staying. It's only the press who are talking about him going.


Suspicious.

I think it's because of his age. Given that he's likely to die soon, succession will be a big issue. The guy they've installed was sacked a few weeks ago. Looks like an internal power struggle, to make sure that when he dies, the "right" person succeeds.

Chrongen

Icemancometh wrote: »

I think it's because of his age. Given that he's likely to die soon, succession will be a big issue. The guy they've installed was sacked a few weeks ago. Looks like an internal power struggle, to make sure that when he dies, the "right" person succeeds.

The guy is 93.

Wasn't his "age" an issue when he was 90? or 88? or even 80?

Infini

Age probably caught up with him and considering how he made a massive mess of his country's economy turning it from a breadbasket into a basketcase I could say a few of his subordinates are probably fed up with him at this stage and want some semblance of normality like other states. Considering his missus was prolly pulling a fast one and they probably just had enough of it and said right hes out.

Odhinn

Chrongen wrote: »

Don't know about this.

Mugabe has been in power for 37 years? Why now? And why at the same time a coup in Saudi Arabia and the forced resignation of Hariri in Lebanon.

Was there any popular uprising against Mugabe in the last few weeks or even months? I didn't hear about it.

The bitter struggles in the 70's and 80's between ZANU, ZAPU and ZANU-PF and the like of Joshua Nkomo and Setoli were awful.

Why now and so easy and so "peaceful"?

I am certain something different is afoot besides him just being toppled by his own party. The army stated he will be staying. It's only the press who are talking about him going.


Suspicious.

The opposition is coming from within Zanu, thus its all very polite. Not so much a coup as a pre-emptive bit of succession.

Chrongen

Odhinn wrote: »

The opposition is coming from within Zanu, thus its all very polite. Not so much a coup as a pre-emptive bit of succession.

But why now? Why Zimbabwe and why is it on the news?


If there was such a change in say, Mali or Costa Rica or Mongolia or Papua (and there may well HAVE been) why was it not front page news?

How many changes have there been in Tanzania or Botswana or Mozambique and not a word?

Why Zimbabwe and why now?

Icemancometh

Chrongen wrote: »

Odhinn wrote: »

The opposition is coming from within Zanu, thus its all very polite. Not so much a coup as a pre-emptive bit of succession.

But why now? Why Zimbabwe and why is it on the news?


If there was such a change in say, Mali or Costa Rica or Mongolia or Papua (and there may well HAVE been) why was it not front page news?

How many changes have there been in Tanzania or Botswana or Mozambique and not a word?

Why Zimbabwe and why now?

The precipitating event would seem to be the vice president getting sacked. I think Zimbabwe gets disproportionate coverage in the UK as a former colony and that spills over to us. I'd imagine political turmoil in former French colonies is bigger news in France than here

imme

paleoperson wrote: »

I like how people in this country can be so strongly opinionated and passionate about things going on in completely different worlds because of what they read.

"Good for you", as the good doctor would say.

Why do you"like" it, why are you presuming to know anything about anyone who posts on the internet.

He's "resigned", well to be honest it needed a really big push to get him to do that, did he actually write the letter or did be just sign it.
I wonder if he thinks that he is still in power?

Ipso

paleoperson wrote: »

I like how people in this country can be so strongly opinionated and passionate about things going on in completely different worlds because of what they read.

Let me guess. You really get it and everyone else doesn't.

DanMurphy

Old Bob was promised the freedom of Dublin if he went quietly.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105334684&postcount=5319
May be a joke, but it's probably a lot closer to the truth than many can imagine.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Mugabe did great work. I have a lot of respect for him.

Gerrup Outta Dat!

Gerrup Outta Dat! wrote: »

Mugabe did great work. I have a lot of respect for him.

???

DanMurphy

Any room left on City Hall for the Zimbabwe Flag?

Joe Musashi

Thought they were all millionaires in Zimbabwe.

Joe Musashi

Joe Musashi wrote: »

Thought they were all millionaires in Zimbabwe.

They used to be multi billionaires for a while.