Who should Irelands next manager be?

nice_guy80

Stephen Kenny or Michael O'Neill

MON completely shown up on Tuesday in terms of tactics, coaching and team selections

bucketybuck

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Stephen Kenny or Michael O'Neill

MON completely shown up on Tuesday in terms of tactics, coaching and team selections

I just assume now that anybody suggesting Micheal O'Neill never watches any of the Northern Ireland games, its just such an incongruous suggestion when put beside the type of criticisms Martin O'Neill is getting.

GavRedKing

The UEFA Nations league doesnt start until nearly 12 months away, if O'Neill and Keane are still in charge at that stage I'd be surprised.

We dont have another international match until March so if something does change we have a good while yet to sort it out and thinnk about replacing both of them.

we'll be in Group B of the UEFA Nations League, only Group A can win a trophy, rest of the groups have relegations and promotions to keep things interesting.

In Group B we have alot of sides we're familiar with from the last few campaigns and no real whipping boys.

Bosnia and Herzegovina
Czech Republic
Denmark
Northern Ireland
Russia
Slovakia
Sweden
Turkey
Ukraine
Wales

Doctor Jimbob

TheCitizen wrote: »

O’Neill is still held in high regard at Celtic that doesn’t mean he’ll be returning as manager at the age of 65.

The poster weldoninho says he’s a Celtic fan but he wouldn’t be representative of Celtic fans vies on MON at all. Some fans would have their criticisms of him from time to time, as I do especially the chaotic nature of the performance v Denmark, but none of them would come out with the one sided blanket ott criticism that that poster does there, and neither would he talk about that way in real life amongst other Celtic supporters. Not a chance of it.

I'm a Celtic fan, and I like O'Neill, but I'd absolutely be up in arms if he returned as manager at this stage of his career.

I'd agree it wouldn't go down well with a lot of fans if you spoke badly of him (and rightly so to an extent, whatever about his current managerial ability he achieved a lot with Celtic), but I think that's partly down to fan bias as well when you look at the way plenty of fans will talk down about Strachan.

Billy86

artanevilla wrote: »

He did okay at Villa, you wouldn't say they were punching about their weight as the time. Some players in that team went on to win Premier and Champions Leagues.

One thing he did do was opt to sign Emile Heskey over Falcao...

Well he did get them to three top six finishes in a row after they finished 16th the year before he came along. I think he did have them punching above their weight to be honest, but at the same time he deserves criticism for a lack of squad rotation (including buying players and barely using them) which every single seemed to result in a good 7-8 players having played nearly every minute of every game and the team collapsing with exhaustion for the final 6-8 games. That's how I remember it at least, because I really was pulling for them or Everton to get into the CL during those years.

TheCitizen

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'm a Celtic fan, and I like O'Neill, but I'd absolutely be up in arms if he returned as manager at this stage of his career.

I'd agree it wouldn't go down well with a lot of fans if you spoke badly of him (and rightly so to an extent, whatever about his current managerial ability he achieved a lot with Celtic), but I think that's partly down to fan bias as well when you look at the way plenty of fans will talk down about Strachan.

It's not on the cards at all that MON would return to Celtic as manager at this stage of his career.

Doctor Jimbob

TheCitizen wrote: »

It's not on the cards at all that MON would return to Celtic as manager at this stage of his career.

Fair point.

Idbatterim

If MON is going to persist with the give the ball away approach constantly, I want him gone. If he is prepared to be a bit more flexible, Id be happy for him to stay...

I saw it at the start of the Denmark match the other day, I was roaring at the tv, the lack of composure was staggering, easy passes on and it was hoofed up the pitch. Inviting the next wave of attack!

polarbearhead

Just saw paddy powers list of prices for next Ireland manager. No sign of Phillip Troussier or Terry Venables anywhere!!!

artanevilla

Why not a "World Class Management Team" in the form of John O'Shea as the gaffer, supported by Kevin Keegan?

JP Liz V1

What about David O’Leary or Neil Lennon?

matrim

Billy86 wrote: »

Well he did get them to three top six finishes in a row after they finished 16th the year before he came along. I think he did have them punching above their weight to be honest, but at the same time he deserves criticism for a lack of squad rotation (including buying players and barely using them) which every single seemed to result in a good 7-8 players having played nearly every minute of every game and the team collapsing with exhaustion for the final 6-8 games. That's how I remember it at least, because I really was pulling for them or Everton to get into the CL during those years.

Villa were in the top 3 / 4 for spending and wages while he was there but he never achieved higher than 6th. Given how much he spent he got a poor return for it.

yabadabado

A overhaul is neded from grassroots up .It will take 10/15 years to see results and more resources than is currently available.

Iceland would be a good model for us to follow but I can't ever see FAI implementing similar.Our model is basically get lads over to English academies and hope for best.

Imo we could still stay competitive while these changes are made so its not a case of writing off a decade of international football.

Idbatterim

I dont see the point in changing, if it only for the sake of change.

irishman86

TheCitizen wrote: »

While I agree that MON won't be returning to manage Celtic, there's no way you speak about him at Celtic matches or in pubs with Celtic fans as you claim to be like you do on here. No chance.

:rolleyes: sad
Please dont tell me your claiming all the Celtic fans are blind idiots who cant have a conversation because ive met Celtic fans and they can. Just because you cant take criticism about MON doesnt mean they all cant

TheCitizen

irishman86 wrote: »

:rolleyes: sad
Please dont tell me your claiming all the Celtic fans are blind idiots who cant have a conversation because ive met Celtic fans and they can. Just because you cant take criticism about MON doesnt mean they all cant

You have a problem with reading comprehension don't you? Most Irish fans, including one's who happen to support Celtic as well will criticise him where criticism is due but also give credit where it's due. What is difficult for you to understand about that?

Billy86

matrim wrote: »

Villa were in the top 3 / 4 for spending and wages while he was there but he never achieved higher than 6th. Given how much he spent he got a poor return for it.

I knew it increased with him there, but were they seriously spending more between wages and transfers than everyone in the league bar Chelsea and Man United?

Just checked and they had a very big spend in his third year at £45mn net, but only £20mn net over the first two year combined he was there, so an average of about £22mn net spent per year on transfers - http://www.transferleague.co.uk/aston-villa/english-football-teams/aston-villa-transfer

Dots1982

GavRedKing wrote: »

The UEFA Nations league doesnt start until nearly 12 months away, if O'Neill and Keane are still in charge at that stage I'd be surprised.

Prepare to be surprised unless they pull the plug themselves

irishman86

TheCitizen wrote: »

You have a problem with reading comprehension don't you? Most Irish fans, including one's who happen to support Celtic as well will criticise him where criticism is due but also give credit where it's due. What is difficult for you to understand about that?

The fact you are painting the fact that there never is criticism due, for me he deserves little credit in this qualifying campaign past the opening three games from there he reverted to type.
Ask any Villa fan, MON gave them some good days but when it got tough he reverted to type (Signing Heskey over Falcao) and in the end fell over the line from a leading position.
Succeeding at Celtic with the money he had is well very expected.
You clearly are in denial about MON buddy and have said already that if you support Celtic you shouldnt criticise him

TheCitizen

irishman86 wrote: »

The fact you are painting the fact that there never is criticism due, for me he deserves little credit in this qualifying campaign past the opening three games from there he reverted to type.
Ask any Villa fan, MON gave them some good days but when it got tough he reverted to type (Signing Heskey over Falcao) and in the end fell over the line from a leading position.
Succeeding at Celtic with the money he had is well very expected.
You clearly are in denial about MON buddy and have said already that if you support Celtic you shouldnt criticise him

You're not making sense here. You seem to be trying to make out that because I said he should get credit where it's due for other good results in his time as Ireland manager that I'm making out he's above criticism. I have said that criticism is due to MON and his management team for performances like the one at home v Denmark and away to Georgia and home to Austria in particular in my view which I said at the time on here, among others. I am a Celtic fan, so your last sentence there doesn't make sense either.

This is very silly stuff. If you're going to engage with my opinion can you try reading what I'm saying properly or not leave out bits that doesn't suit your arguments. It's beyond tedious at this stage.

irishman86

TheCitizen wrote: »

You're not making sense here. You seem to be trying to make out that because I said he should get credit where it's due for other good results in his time as Ireland manager that I'm making out he's above criticism. I have said that criticism is due to MON and his management team for performances like the one at home v Denmark and away to Georgia and home to Austria in particular in my view which I said at the time on here, among others. I am a Celtic fan, so your last sentence there doesn't make sense either.

This is very silly stuff. If you're going to engage with my opinion can you try reading what I'm saying properly or not leave out bits that doesn't suit your arguments. It's beyond tedious at this stage.

I do read your comments, sadly i feel you forget what you wrote when it suits you, the irony of you saying someones posts are tedious when you jump down anyones neck when they criticise MON god forbid they support Celtic and do it
I know your a Celtic fan, youve regularly pointed this out
Its really not my fault if you cant make sense of it, anyways this is just going round and round. I wont reply on this current subject again to you buddy as well i just dont think you are in any way impartial or open minded about MON

TheCitizen

irishman86 wrote: »

I do read your comments, sadly i feel you forget what you wrote when it suits you, the irony of you saying someones posts are tedious when you jump down anyones neck when they criticise MON god forbid they support Celtic and do it
I know your a Celtic fan, youve regularly pointed this out
Its really not my fault if you cant make sense of it, anyways this is just going round and round. I wont reply on this current subject again to you buddy as well i just dont think you are in any way impartial or open minded about MON

I'm jumping down the necks of posters who refuse to give credit where it's due, whether they happen to be Celtic fans or not.

Also to pick up a point on his time at Celtic when you say; "Succeeding at Celtic with the money he had is well very expected."


Was it expected that they get to the UEFA Cup final beating Liverpool along the way, putting Barcelona out of Europe in another year of his reign, beating Juventus in the Champions League etc. etc..?

I'm capable of giving credit where it's due, and I'm recognising that criticism is also due in other performances and results. You on the other hand have an ott, entirely one sided view of Martin O'Neill and his long career in management for some unfathomable reason that only makes sense to yourself. It's a ridiculous viewpoint with no sense of balance.

If you continue to refuse to read my comments on this in the round; then yes it's probably better that you don't reply further to me on this current subject.

yabadabado

MON did a good job at Celtic but has done nothing of note since.He seems too stuck in his ways and this tactics left a lot to be desired in many of our games.

We should be well capable of stringing some passes together but far too often its just lump it away and wait for the next attack or hope we win the second ball.No reason not to get a balance between both.

Imo MON will be manager unless he walks away ,dont see FAI getting rid of him.

TheCitizen

yabadabado wrote: »

MON did a good job at Celtic but has done nothing of note since.He seems too stuck in his ways and this tactics left a lot to be desired in many of our games.

We should be well capable of stringing some passes together but far too often its just lump it away and wait for the next attack or hope we win the second ball.No reason not to get a balance between both.

Imo MON will be manager unless he walks away ,dont see FAI getting rid of him.

The style of play in a lot of games especially most of the World Cup campaign has left a lot to be desired while as Ireland manager. However it's inaccurate to say he's done nothing of note as Ireland manager. Several wins against teams higher ranked than us and the general performance and results overall in France in 2016 were noteworthy results.

You're right that it's unlikely that the FAI will sack him. The contract is on the table for him to sign it. I'm not certain he will continue though, it depends on whether he thinks he can get more from this group of players or whether he's taken them as far as he can or not.

GavRedKing

TheCitizen wrote: »

The style of play in a lot of games especially most of the World Cup campaign has left a lot to be desired while as Ireland manager. However it's inaccurate to say he's done nothing of note as Ireland manager. Several wins against teams higher ranked than us and the general performance and results overall in France in 2016 were noteworthy results.

You're right that it's unlikely that the FAI will sack him. The contract is on the table for him to sign it. I'm not certain he will continue though, it depends on whether he thinks he can get more from this group of players or whether he's taken them as far as he can or not.

Theres also a lot of sweeping under the carpet in the above,

Theres also another matter of winning one home game in over a year of competitive games.

6 games, 1 win, 2 draws, 3 losses.

After 4 games of the qualifiers we were sitting pretty, 3 wins, 1 draw, thats seriously impressive and note worthy, cant fault the team or management for that, however, it then began to fall apart during the March 2017 internationals and from there on in.

For me the crucical win in Wales means f**k all when you go and lose a playoff 5-1, we might as well not have won that game at all, which was another fluke, IMO.

MON rode his luck with Ireland a lot during his tenure, its unsustainable to count on luck, the odd rub of the green and hoping for a knock down from a set piece or a misatke from the opposition to get through a campaign and he was embarrased by Denmark on the back of it.

I've no issue with results over performance as long as the results go your way, but playing bogball tactics and lucking out in crucical games isnt something that can last, nor will it last.

Defending MON, again, no issue with it as he got the results, now that theyve gone and hes embarrased the country, nobody in their right mind should be defending this footballing dinosaur.

edgecutter

Give it to John Delaney, sure he could run FIFA by all accounts.

edgecutter

Give it to John Delaney, sure he could run FIFA by all accounts.

TheCitizen

GavRedKing wrote: »

Theres also a lot of sweeping under the carpet in the above,

Theres also another matter of winning one home game in over a year of competitive games.

6 games, 1 win, 2 draws, 3 losses.

After 4 games of the qualifiers we were sitting pretty, 3 wins, 1 draw, thats seriously impressive and note worthy, cant fault the team or management for that, however, it then began to fall apart during the March 2017 internationals and from there on in.

For me the crucical win in Wales means f**k all when you go and lose a playoff 5-1, we might as well not have won that game at all, which was another fluke, IMO.

MON rode his luck with Ireland a lot during his tenure, its unsustainable to count on luck, the odd rub of the green and hoping for a knock down from a set piece or a misatke from the opposition to get through a campaign and he was embarrased by Denmark on the back of it.

I've no issue with results over performance as long as the results go your way, but playing bogball tactics and lucking out in crucical games isnt something that can last, nor will it last.

Defending MON, again, no issue with it as he got the results, now that theyve gone and hes embarrased the country, nobody in their right mind should be defending this footballing dinosaur.

My issue with some posters on here was with those few who refused to give credit where it's due, so from that viewpoint I don't have an issue with that aspect of your post. As regards lucking out, I would say that when you beat teams higher ranked than you on several occasions then it's down to more than just luck.

Your use of the phrase 'footballing dinosaur' gets you a couple of 'likes' from a couple of posters who refused to give any credit where credit is due. I'm not defending the result or performance v Denmark, there is no defence of it, it was chaotic and disorganised. However if O'Neill was to step down now, I would say the record would show in terms of results, that his tenure would read as largely a success. Two campaigns, one qualification and a good showing in the Euros, and second place and a play off spot in the World Cup qualifiers.

The Talking Bread

Google Search: " irishman86 boards.ie buddy site:www.boards.ie "

"About 88 results"

The Talking Bread

Google Search "TheCitizen boards.ie Martin O'Neill is God"

"About 10,566,883 results"

TheCitizen

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Google Search "TheCitizen boards.ie Martin O'Neill is Ghod"

"About 10,566,883 results"

Fixed that for ya:)

The Talking Bread

TheCitizen wrote: »

Fixed that for ya:)

Hopefully this soon............

Google Search "TheCitizen boards.ie Martin O'Neill is Gone"

TheCitizen

The Talking Bread wrote: »

Hopefully this soon............

Google Search "TheCitizen boards.ie Martin O'Neill is Gone"

Well if he's gone, whoever takes over will do well to match what he has done with Ireland in terms of results, given our record overall at International level over the years.

yabadabado

My problem with MON is over the last year we throw away a huge opportunity to top the group with some dismal performances and plenty of the blame goes to him.
Grinding down teams will only bring you so far and I really do think he could have set up the team to be more productive with the ball while still being hard to beat and well organised in defense.

A few tweaks in the game plan could have made all the difference. Its a pity as I like MON but many will only remember the humiliation of Tuesday night.

No matter who comes in nothing will really change until FAI actually give a toss about football other than the senior team.

The_Kew_Tour

he is on €1 million a year don't forget.

sad ending but no excuse after Tuesday. he showed he had the tactical change of a Demented Owl

The_Kew_Tour

yabadabado wrote: »

No matter who comes in nothing will really change until FAI actually give a toss about football other than the senior team.

This

and even though I don't want him around, no matter who gets the job they're far greater elephant in the room then MON

johnnyryan89

Whoever the next manager is they've got a bit of a rebuilding job to do. 9 of the match day squad on Tuesday will be 32 or older with another 3 who missed out on injury by the time the Nations League rolls around next year.

O'Shea (37), Hoolahan (36), Murphy (35), Walters (35), Whelan (34), C.Doyle (33), Ward (33), Westwood (33), Keogh (32), Elliot (32), McShane (32) and McGeady (32)

If the Nations League does away with the qualifier play offs and only top two teams qualify do you take the chance with a rebuild and hope for a top two finish or stick with what we have and get to the Euros which could see us play in Dublin and then rebuild for Qatar 2022 and Euro 2024.

yabadabado

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Whoever the next manager is they've got a bit of a rebuilding job to do. 9 of the match day squad on Tuesday will be 32 or older with another 3 who missed out on injury by the time the Nations League rolls around next year.

O'Shea (37), Hoolahan (36), Murphy (35), Walters (35), Whelan (34), C.Doyle (33), Ward (33), Westwood (33), Keogh (32), Elliot (32), McShane (32) and McGeady (32)

If the Nations League does away with the qualifier play offs and only top two teams qualify do you take the chance with a rebuild and hope for a top two finish or stick with what we have and get to the Euros which could see us play in Dublin and then rebuild for Qatar 2022 and Euro 2024.

Huge rebuilding job needed.Could say all the players you have listed won't be around for our next game bar the keepers.

We need to blood players in several positions and also flesh out the squad .Some lads who have been around the squads but havent gotten games now need to be pushed to the fore.Players like Doherty,Kelly,Browne should be getting a proper look at.
Whoever is in charge in March really needs to use the friendly game and other games we likely to play before Nations cup to promote players.