Oh nos... Humans fixing god's mistakes... Where will it end?

MrPudding

This could be a massively important step in the treatment of all kinds of diseases. Of course, it could all go a bit 28 Days Later...

Thoughts?

MrP

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

We;re all going to live to be 200 years old. There's plenty of resources and the next generation will be overjoyed at funding our pensions.

Be grand.

Pac1Man

I'll have eyes that that don't deteriorate, increased physical strength & stamina and a battered sausage please.

GLaDOS

Be fantastic if it works and can be used reliably.

Be a while before it progresses past treatment for very serious diseases due to the risk involved, the effects of editing the wrong piece of DNA could be very dangerous. But if you already have a lethal disease, I imagine that's a risk people will be willing to take.

Beta Ray Bill

C'mon Radioactive Spider genes.....

clairewithani

Pac1Man wrote: »

I'll have eyes that that don't deteriorate, increased physical strength & stamina and a battered sausage please.

Battered sausage. Painful

Ubbquittious

It would be better if the current crops of humans stayed alive instead of bringing in a new batch that have to learn and make all the same mistakes as the ones before them

Zebra3

There is no “god”.

MrPudding

GLaDOS wrote: »

Be fantastic if it works and can be used reliably.

Be a while before it progresses past treatment for very serious diseases due to the risk involved, the effects of editing the wrong piece of DNA could be very dangerous. But if you already have a lethal disease, I imagine that's a risk people will be willing to take.

Yes, this was actually mentioned in the article. Some previous attempts randomly inserted the new gene, leading to unforeseen side effects. This particular method allows a precise cut and paste.

This could be amazing.

MrP

brevity

Is this like Crispr?

GLaDOS

brevity wrote: »

Is this like Crispr?

From the article:

The gene-editing tool Crispr-Cas9 has had a lot of recent attention, but this study used a different tool called zinc finger nucleases. They work like molecular scissors that seek and cut a specific piece of DNA.

The therapy has three parts: the new gene and two zinc finger proteins. DNA instructions for each part are placed in a virus that has been altered to not cause infection but instead to ferry them into cells. Billions of copies of these are given to the patient intravenously.

They travel to the liver, where cells use the instructions to make the zinc fingers and prepare the corrective gene. The fingers cut the DNA, allowing the new gene to slip in. The new gene then directs the cell to make the enzyme the patient lacked.

Assumed it would be CRISPR when I opened it up myself.

RayM

It's fine because even though God doesn't exist, He is all powerful and is making this happen.

Mr.H

Zebra3 wrote:

There is no “godâ€.

Beat me to it

GritBiscuit

They work like molecular scissors that seek and cut a specific piece of DNA

So, cutting out a defective gene sequence and inserting a healthy one - replicated in every cell. That sounds like a mammoth ask but would be a fantastic leap forward in treatment of genetic conditions.

RayM wrote: »

It's fine because even though God doesn't exist, He is all powerful and is making this happen.

He made free will which created atheists and he made these scientists so is making all this happen regardless. Anyway, he doesn't make mistakes - it's all a punishment for touching yourself...or something...

The_Valeyard

Zebra3 wrote: »

There is no “god”.

"Edgy" :cool:

The_Valeyard

Its a great idea to help eliminate diseases or painful human genetic traits.


Just need to make sure we dont go down the path of Eugenics and end up create a style of 'superhuman' that looks down on other humans, like Star Treks Augments.

The_Valeyard

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Its a great idea to help eliminate diseases or painful human genetic traits.


Just need to make sure we dont go down the path of Eugenics and end up create a style of 'superhuman' that looks down on other humans, like Star Treks Augments.

Yeah.....cos they don't exist already

splinter65

The_Valeyard wrote: »

"Edgy" :cool:

Super cool these guys.

Jayop

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Its a great idea to help eliminate diseases or painful human genetic traits.


Just need to make sure we dont go down the path of Eugenics and end up create a style of 'superhuman' that looks down on other humans, like Star Treks Augments.

Yeah the concern with this type of thing is that it'll for a long time only be available to the 1% and will create more of a division. Without augmentation or becoming superhuman, just the ability to remain as a young adult for years and years will make them superhuman enough.

seamus

People need to not overhype what this is. Better eyes, stronger limbs, smarter brains, are not achievable with this kind of technology.

It "fixes" DNA in the hope that as your body regenerates itself, the new cells will contains the fixed DNA and the symptoms of the broken DNA will go away over time.

In this case, the guy's body doesn't produce enough of a specific enzyme because his cells lack the DNA to express it. This has a cumulative effect that results in abnormal growth and a requirement to take supplements of the enzyme to stay alive.

By getting this therapy the hope is that his cells will now be able to express this enzyme, and therefore as more and more of the target cells are regenerated with the "right" DNA, his body will express more and more of this enzyme until he no longer needs supplements.

But that's it. The cumulative damage will remain; he won't suddenly grow to six feet tall, become an olympic sprinter or a swimwear model. And he probably won't see any increase in life expectancy. And any children he may have in future probably won't inherit the "fix".

That's all we can really do with this. Once someone has reached adulthood, a lot of the cells in the body replace themselves very slowly, if at all. So any kind of DNA splicing or gene therapy will be of little benefit.

It may be incredibly useful on children though, since they grow so quickly and continuously, the earlier you engage this kind of therapy the greater chance you have of permanently eradicate the disease.

Epidermolysis bullosa ("Butterfly children") would be a prime candidate for this kind of therapy when we've gathered enough data from adults to make it work more reliably. At the rate children regenerate skin, one of these kids could have the disease completely eradicated; permanently; inside of six months.

uck51js9zml2yt

MrPudding wrote: »

This could be a massively important step in the treatment of all kinds of diseases. Of course, it could all go a bit 28 Days Later...

Thoughts?

MrP

Odd thread title since God doesn't exist( in your book).

Its Interesting how you can blame a work of fiction!
I blame evolution ( if evolution can be held responsible)

GLaDOS

seamus wrote: »

Epidermolysis bullosa ("Butterfly children") would be a prime candidate for this kind of therapy when we've gathered enough data from adults to make it work more reliably. At the rate children regenerate skin, one of these kids could have the disease completely eradicated; permanently; inside of six months.

Have you seen this?

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature24487

The gene editing was done in vitro and then transplanted. But still incredible stuff.

c_man

Great news, hopefully neck-beardism can be cured and properly treated within our lifetimes.

jamesbere

If they're called the umbrella corporation, I'm getting a gun

seamus

GLaDOS wrote: »

Have you seen this?

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature24487

The gene editing was done in vitro and then transplanted. But still incredible stuff.

Wonderful. I understand they'd similarly grown small gene-altered skin grafts and attached them to severe cases. The grafts take and remain stable, but don't really "spread" to the rest of the cells.

The above seems to be stem cell modification which is far more effective, and brilliant.

There is good reason to tread very carefully though. A couple of very early trials resulted in (not unexpected) autoimmune disorders where the body's defences went haywire and aggressively attacked itself in an unstoppable chain reaction. Pretty nasty way to die.

Bitches Be Trypsin

It has been trialed before and was successful in pigs with CF. Gene therapy is an interest of mine and I'd say it's where treatment for many diseases will be in the next 100 years. However it poses many risks, is not entirely understood, and has ethical questions too.

GLaDOS

seamus wrote: »

Wonderful. I understand they'd similarly grown small gene-altered skin grafts and attached them to severe cases. The grafts take and remain stable, but don't really "spread" to the rest of the cells.

The above seems to be stem cell modification which is far more effective, and brilliant.

There is good reason to tread very carefully though. A couple of very early trials resulted in (not unexpected) autoimmune disorders where the body's defences went haywire and aggressively attacked itself in an unstoppable chain reaction. Pretty nasty way to die.

The hope is because the stem cells were generated from the patients own skin, auto-immune problems can be avoided. Can only wait and see how this one goes I suppose.

topper75

Zebra3 wrote: »

There is no “god”.

You've gone a little weird of late.

I saw you weren't in the church last Sunday morning either. It was noted.

MrPudding

Gordon Tasteless Cilantro wrote: »

Odd thread title since God doesn't exist( in your book).

Its Interesting how you can blame a work of fiction!
I blame evolution ( if evolution can be held responsible)

Jeeze get over it. I don't believe in the existence of gods, I do believe in the existence of sarcasm.

Not sure if it is evolution to blame or simply mutation. I suppose evolution have "allowed" the mutation to survive, so maybe it is to blame...

MrP

the_pen_turner

It is very hard to argue against some one wanting to keep their mother,father , sibling or child alive and healthy for as long as possible.
I know I would give anything for my grand mother to be alive for another year

But look at the bigger picture.
The earth is already hugely over populated and getting more so .
The last thing we need is to keep people alive longer.
All the while Wars Or famines etc happen to keep the numbers down

the_pen_turner

It is very hard to argue against some one wanting to keep their mother,father , sibling or child alive and healthy for as long as possible.
I know I would give anything for my grand mother to be alive for another year

But look at the bigger picture.
The earth is already hugely over populated and getting more so .
The last thing we need is to keep people alive longer.
All the while Wars Or famines etc happen to keep the numbers down

keano_afc

God doesnt make mistakes.

uck51js9zml2yt

MrPudding wrote: »

Jeeze get over it. I don't believe in the existence of gods, I do believe in the existence of sarcasm.

Not sure if it is evolution to blame or simply mutation. I suppose evolution have "allowed" the mutation to survive, so maybe it is to blame...

MrP

So if evolution allowed them and its the evolution of the fittest, why are we wanting to get rid of what evolution wanted?

Sarcasm is over rated!

darkdubh

MrPudding wrote: »

This could be a massively important step in the treatment of all kinds of diseases. Of course, it could all go a bit 28 Days Later...

Thoughts?

MrP

Dogs mistakes?

MrPudding

Gordon Tasteless Cilantro wrote: »

So if evolution allowed them and its the evolution of the fittest, why are we wanting to get rid of what evolution wanted?

Sarcasm is over rated!

I am going to assume you are actually interested in a response...

Evolution does not "want" anything. Because of the advances we have made, diseases that may once have been fatal, are now no longer fatal. Take the guy in this story, a few decades ago the disease has has would have killed him, but now there is medication that can, somewhat, reduce the effect and lethality, of the disease.

Survival of the fittest does not apply quite so much to humans now, because we have advance to the point where we can prevent a lot fo the deaths that would occur if thing were left to nature, and natural selection.

MrP

Ipso

keano_afc wrote: »

God doesnt make mistakes.

Leitrim!

beefburrito

MrPudding wrote: »

I am going to assume you are actually interested in a response...

Evolution does not "want" anything. Because of the advances we have made, diseases that may once have been fatal, are now no longer fatal. Take the guy in this story, a few decades ago the disease has has would have killed him, but now there is medication that can, somewhat, reduce the effect and lethality, of the disease.

Survival of the fittest does not apply quite so much to humans now, because we have advance to the point where we can prevent a lot fo the deaths that would occur if thing were left to nature, and natural selection.

MrP

You're wrong Mr P

Survival of the fittest doe's still apply in today's world.
Metaphorically speaking you're on the right track but in the mainstream it's the people who can afford the best treatment who are more liable for survival.

I don't know why you brought your God into this, that's kind of lame and outdated, maybe that applies to the forum over yonder....

That dark dreary place I frequently get banned or infractions in for being myself lol

Anyhow messing with DNA can be dangerous...

Have you watched gremlins ?

Odhinn

MrPudding wrote: »

Yes, this was actually mentioned in the article. Some previous attempts randomly inserted the new gene, leading to unforeseen side effects. This particular method allows a precise cut and paste.

This could be amazing.

MrP

It won't be. You've seen the movies, you know the script. Man meddles = Teh Satan = death and destruction for all concerned.

Sin City

the_pen_turner wrote: »

It is very hard to argue against some one wanting to keep their mother,father , sibling or child alive and healthy for as long as possible.
I know I would give anything for my grand mother to be alive for another year

But look at the bigger picture.
The earth is already hugely over populated and getting more so .
The last thing we need is to keep people alive longer.
All the while Wars Or famines etc happen to keep the numbers down

Only the rich will be able to afford it so most of us will die off normally

MrPudding

beefburrito wrote: »

You're wrong Mr P

Survival of the fittest doe's still apply in today's world.
Metaphorically speaking you're on the right track but in the mainstream it's the people who can afford the best treatment who are more liable for survival.

I don't know why you brought your God into this, that's kind of lame and outdated, maybe that applies to the forum over yonder....

That dark dreary place I frequently get banned or infractions in for being myself lol

Anyhow messing with DNA can be dangerous...

Have you watched gremlins ?

With respect to your point about god, read my sig.

It isn't really survival of the fittest or natural selection though, is it... Perhaps sexual or economic selection would be a more appropriate phrase.

MrP

uck51js9zml2yt

beefburrito wrote: »

You're wrong Mr P

Survival of the fittest doe's still apply in today's world.
Metaphorically speaking you're on the right track but in the mainstream it's the people who can afford the best treatment who are more liable for survival.

I don't know why you brought your God into this, that's kind of lame and outdated, maybe that applies to the forum over yonder....

That dark dreary place I frequently get banned or infractions in for being myself lol

Anyhow messing with DNA can be dangerous...

Have you watched gremlins ?

I watched Chimera back in the late 80's. Mix of animal/human DNA. If they were thinking about these things 30 years ago they've become reality now...just look at star trek. Mobile phones, AI's...

Hector Bellend

Any chance of a 12 inch mickey?

beefburrito

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Any chance of a 12 inch mickey?

Depends really, There's a Disney shop off Grafton Street....
Plenty of Mickey's there....
All sizes.

beefburrito

MrPudding wrote: »

With respect to your point about god, read my sig.

It isn't really survival of the fittest or natural selection though, is it... Perhaps sexual or economic selection would be a more appropriate phrase.

MrP

That's more appropriate MrP

I'll put that feather in my hat

server down

beefburrito wrote: »

That's more appropriate MrP

I'll put that feather in my hat

It’s how many kids you have. Not whether you personally survive.

MrPudding

server down wrote: »

It’s how many kids you have. Not whether you personally survive.

Well, it kind of is if you personally survive. Specifically, if you personally survive long enough to have kids...

MrP

server down

MrPudding wrote: »

Well, it kind of is if you personally survive. Specifically, if you personally survive long enough to have kids...

MrP

Yes, obviously. But you can be a Junkie and die at 30 having produced 4 kids and that beats the millionaire who lives to 90 who has had 2 kids.

MrPudding

server down wrote: »

Yes, obviously. But you can be a Junkie and die at 30 having produced 4 kids and that beats the millionaire who lives to 90 who has had 2 kids.

Of course. Do you think there is a genetic element to being a junkie or being a millionaire?

MrP

Wheeliebin30

Evolution, survival of the fittest.

Nature has a way of controlling population growth etc for its own good.

We continue to ignore it and try fight it.

It wont end well, probably with our extinction.

suicide_circus

Modern medicine keeps us alive long after our brains have turned to mush and the the thing that makes us who we are has gone.

One eyed Jack

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Evolution, survival of the fittest.

Nature has a way of controlling population growth etc for its own good.

We continue to ignore it and try fight it.

It wont end well, probably with our extinction.

Evolution is more down to just pure luck than any intent of nature (particularly as nature doesn't possess any characteristics, let alone intent!). Here's an article from 2014 that suggests reasons why homo sapiens may have diverged from neanderthals and other species, but it didn't happen without it's downsides, from our modern perspective at least (I'm not convinced about "evolutionary psychology") -

How are we different and what gave us the advantage over extinct types of humans like the Neanderthals?

There was a more recent paper I read (which I can't for the life of me find now) in which researchers used computer modelling to create the conditions to test their hypothesis that it was indeed down to just luck as to why homo sapiens evolved and neanderthals became extinct, and they discovered it really could have gone either way! Neanderthals may have survived today and homo sapiens have been the extinct species!

One of the things about technologies like this is that they are incredibly expensive, so for many of us even in the Western world, it will never become a 'standard' treatment, it will always be fringe medical science rather than anything Star Trekky where we'll be able to jump in a biochamber and have our DNA resequenced and refreshed like taking a morning shower (it's not immortality, but it's as close as!), so there's no need to go all Chicken Licken on that score.

What experimental treatments like this do however, is simply give us a greater understanding of human biology, which allows us to develop better treatments that can be applied to already existing and unforeseen as yet conditions. It gives us a significant advantage over nature in that it allows us to determine the course of our biology within our own lifetimes rather than competing against nature and evolution which takes place over millennia, certainly not overnight, or over the course of a couple of centuries, as you might be suggesting.

Gene editing isn't particularly new, but what was different about this technique is it's accuracy, like putting a scope on a blunderbuss, thereby actually reducing the risk of humans actually developing eyes in the back of their heads and all that other kind of freaky Twilight Zone/Black Mirror shìt :pac: