Condemned Ewe

tomwaterford

razor8 wrote: »

How would it work if you had bought lambs from different sellers and brought them as batch to factory and something was wrong with some of them. How could they guarantee traceability. I correlate all lambs here and majority seem right & nearly all killed in ICM. Tag and kill number are not in sequence

I was working in a place and there was lambs like this...couple hundred bought in etc

We had about 80 In a house with no tags (lost etc)..factory agents said to young lads who came to help load etc,make up numbers for them


Sure what are we at like?

ganmo

paddysdream wrote: »

From the bottom of each kill sheet;

Irish Country Meats (ICM) are fully committed to providing producers with maximum production data in conjunction with slaughter returns.To ensure full traceability it is a statutory requirement that producer flock number is transferred to each carcase processed.Every effort is also made to accurately record individual lamb tag details however for non EID tagged animals it is established that current producer declaration and processor recording system is prone to human error.In this context we wish to advise producers that no responsibility is assumed by ICM for any inaccuracies of information transfer and data provided is done so in good faith to assist enterprise management.

Must have a look back and see when they started putting that on.

kk.man

paddysdream wrote: »

serfspup wrote: »

these are the kind of arguments that WILL be used to force electronic tagging of all lambs (like in the UK) and we will be paying for it and it is all bullsh1tuised to screw the primary producer

Thats not an issue anymore as full EID to be introduced here early next year.The cost imposition of EID (1 euro approx) on lambs being sold direct from farm of birth to factory is a joke.Thats 1k or so on a farmer selling 1000 lambs a year.Not exactly what a low margin sector needs.
Tagged lambs here this morning at 7am,in factory at 8:30 and tags in the skip by ?10am ?

.All EID is useful for is to
(a)cut factory and mart costs and we all know that their margins are all important to Ireland INC.
(b)allow Bord Bia Origin Green etc etc to claim that we have gold standard traceability which of course will open all these amazing new markets for our lamb and will ensure 6 euro a kilo all year round.Something like the much publicised export of beef to USA,and before that to some other amazing and exotic place that the incumbent Minister thought my be nice for a weekend break whilst promoting the red headed child of Irish agriculture (ie anything thats not milk based)

My sentiments exactly!
Plus some farmer being penalised as a result of an inspection for missing tags !

Hard Knocks

If marts & factories want EID tags in my lambs, I’ve no problem applying them if they supply them.
The 90c between mart tags & eid is of benefit to them & not me.
If they pay mullinahone / elite / Cormac, I’ll do the rest

paddysdream

ganmo wrote: »

Must have a look back and see when they started putting that on.

At least a couple of years I think,maybe longer.

Talking of ICM,have they dropped the "voluntary" vet declaration they used to have in the security hut?
Started off as a form asking if your sheep were cloned or has been treated with quinolones(sp) and something else.
Had to ask my vet what these drugs were.
Many who signed the form did so without even looking at it as it was presented as something related to dropping in the lambs.
They then posted up a list of the trade names of the drugs.When asked they said it was just a survey for one particular customer.
Havent see it in a while

paddysdream

Hard Knocks wrote: »

If marts & factories want EID tags in my lambs, I’ve no problem applying them if they supply them.
The 90c between mart tags & eid is of benefit to them & not me.
If they pay mullinahone / elite / Cormac, I’ll do the rest

If the processors are asked to pay part or all of the cost of the tags then they are sure to factor that into the price offered.Nothing for nothing in this world!!
Would it not be better to get Bord Bia etc to pay the difference between the tip tag and the EID tag ?We are always being told that this or that extra layer of bureaucracy will do wonders for our price with all the sales it will bring as our representatives are always behind the game.Put their money(not ours,well not only the primary producers money anyways) where their mouth is.
Absolutely no benefit whatsoever to anyone selling direct to a factory from farm of origin from EID ,only extra cost with no reduction in paperwork or record keeping.
Also whatever about the extra cost on a 100 euro factory lamb (1%),what about the cost per head on a 20kg horny store lamb sold in the mart.

paddysdream

Could we write the following into the herd register or on dispatch book ?

Irish sheep farmers are fully committed to providing the Dept of Ag./EU with maximum traceability data in conjunction with compliant record keeping.It is a statutory requirment that full records of all movements etc are kept for all sheep in the flock.Every effort is made to accurately record each and every movement and/or event however it is established that no system is perfect eg Ministerial emails,Pulse,Garda breath testing returns,Bank records,offshore tax avoidance accounts,charity accounts,developers prsi returns,TD expense claims, etc etc ad infinitum..........and is of course prone to human error.In this context we wish to advise Dept inspectors, Bord Bia inspectors etc that no responsibility is assumed by me "John/Mary Sheep Farmer " for any inaccuracies of information transfer and data provided is done so in good faith to assist the Dept etc in drawing down their public sector salaries and presumably a good pension after retirement.

Would that pass muster ?

Sheep breeder

paddysdream wrote: »

Are you sure?
Is it not the case that the lambs are killed from the pen in whatever order they come and the carcasses are then numbered as per the order of tags on the dispatch docket.Know for certain that my lamb returns do not correlate with the actual tag number
Have seen this a good few times.Try it by noting the heaviest and lightest lamb numbers in a batch and see if they match up with the kill sheet returns.Ok know lamb kill out ain't an exact thing but with the last few lambs here any year there could be a few maybe 50 plus kilos and more 37/38 kilo liveweight.Hard to mix those returns up.

One factory even print it on the returns that they cannot guarentee that the tag numbers and carcase weights will correlate correctly.

In 3 years working in a factory that was the way it worked lambs were batch killed and read by a guy on the line after the sheep come out of the blood bath and put into the computer as a kill number to match the tag and the exact same as the cattle line, you say that full electric tag is coming in 2018 where did you see that,

razor8

paddysdream wrote: »

Could we write the following into the herd register or on dispatch book ?

Irish sheep farmers are fully committed to providing the Dept of Ag./EU with maximum traceability data in conjunction with compliant record keeping.It is a statutory requirment that full records of all movements etc are kept for all sheep in the flock.Every effort is made to accurately record each and every movement and/or event however it is established that no system is perfect eg Ministerial emails,Pulse,Garda breath testing returns,Bank records,offshore tax avoidance accounts,charity accounts,developers prsi returns,TD expense claims, etc etc ad infinitum..........and is of course prone to human error.In this context we wish to advise Dept inspectors, Bord Bia inspectors etc that no responsibility is assumed by me "John/Mary Sheep Farmer " for any inaccuracies of information transfer and data provided is done so in good faith to assist the Dept etc in drawing down their public sector salaries and presumably a good pension after retirement.

Would that pass muster ?

and get them to sign the bottom to say they read it!!

wrangler

Sheep breeder wrote: »

In 3 years working in a factory that was the way it worked lambs were batch killed and read by a guy on the line after the sheep come out of the blood bath and put into the computer as a kill number to match the tag and the exact same as the cattle line, you say that full electric tag is coming in 2018 where did you see that,

Those guys are reading about 250 per hour....there has to be allowance for errors.
I don't think EID is coming in next year, at a euro/lamb it'd need to be reflected in the market first......not brought in on spec

We use EIDs here I can see why the factories want them

Ard_MC

wrangler wrote: »

Those guys are reading about 250 per hour....there has to be allowance for errors.
I don't think EID is coming in next year, at a euro/lamb it'd need to be reflected in the market first......not brought in on spec

We use EIDs here I can see why the factories want them

Welcome back.