Joe Brolly and Eamonn Dunphy are not fans of Barry McGuigan

harpsman

walshb wrote: »

Just to be clear. Hate is a nasty word. Brolly “may” hate Barry, but let’s not claim this. Brolly said he didn’t like him. You can not like people without having to hate them.

Hate is a nasty word but joe and Eamon are certainly nasty people. But sure, he might just dislike Barry, but if you’re saying on tv that you don’t like someone personally it usually means it’s a bit stronger than general dislike

walshb

Be interesting to know the Irish viewing figures for Barry’s fight vs. the AA final of ‘82...

Billy86

walshb wrote: »

Btw, the Super Bowl comparison to the AA final. Similar in a national sense, but not at all comparable on the global scene. AA final is our day. The Super Bowl is the world’s day..

Wow, had to go back because I didn't fully believe you that someone made the comparison! If I'm correct, the Superbowl is almost guaranteed on to be the most watched sports event on the planet every year where a World Cup isn't on (though a Champions League final might come close?). Even Dublin city centre these days is fairly busy for a late, late Sunday night in early February when the weather is usually at it's worst, which is a pretty big jump from when I started watching the game.

The All Ireland had a record 1.3mn viewers this year, while the Superbowl had it's lowest numbers in three years - 'just' 172mn in the US alone (also a considerably higher percentage of their population) while an estimated though probably somewhat exaggerated 1 billion watch it globally... my guess would be somewhere in the 800mn region.

What you outlined is also the reason I would typically say international achievements would typically trump domestic ones in a smaller country such as ours.

harpsman

Maybe it’s just my age but all my favorite moments are from the 80s-
Ginger Mcloughlin try at Twickenham.
Gerry Armstrong goal against Spain.
Seamus Darby goal
McGuigan downing Pedroza
Roches climb to LaPlagne
Houghton goal in Stuttgart

The only other moments that compares for me are Donegal’s First All Ireland in 92(personal) and Packies penalty save

Billy86

harpsman wrote: »

I’m not sure what your point is. There are plenty of people who could talk about the Darby goal and wouldn’t know the specifics of McGuigans career. And vice versa

That is my point though - there isn't. You'd be very, very hard pressed to find more than a handful of people 30 or older unaware that McGuigan was world boxing champion. You'd have little trouble finding plenty who don't know who Darby is at all, or who couldn't tell you won the 1982 final, who scored the winner, or even why it was a significant game. McGuigan's achievements saw him transcend the sport within Ireland, Darby's didn't.

elmomcgrath

walshb wrote: »

So what...

Who’s voting? GAA people, or people who may want to just support the whole Irishness of the GAA?

Take any poll anywhere and ask general people to pick Darby out of a lineup and next to nobody would. Barry would be picked out by anyone who is of a certain age..he is far more known..

I am not a GAA fan, although I have huge admiration for them. Maybe it’s just me, but I always got the feeling that a huge portion of people “supporting” or watching it are doing it more out of a duty and to be seen to be popular and with the crowd as opposed to actually genuinely liking the game..

Similar to rugby of recent years. It just lacks sincerity.

The general public are the ones who are voting, which includes people who like Gaelic Games and people who may not.

Seamus Darby has barely been in the public since his goal, he had one moment of fame and that was all.Barry McGuigan is in public constantly so it's obvious he would have more general recognition. Again as I pointed out earlier it has nothing the do with fame of the indivdual it's about a moment of sport.

Gaelic Football and hurling are the 2 best attended sports in this country, the AI football final was the most watched TV programme in ireland this year I don't think there is anything insincere about people who follow GAA, they could easily do something else when matches are on if they wanted to.The womens football final had about 50k in attendance this year.

Gaelic games are much much bigger than boxing in this country and therefore you are obviously going to get more votes for a GAA moment as it means more to the general public here than boxing does.

Billy86

elmomcgrath wrote: »

Gaelic Football and hurling are the 2 best attended sports in this country, the AI football final was the most watched TV programme in ireland this year I don't think there is anything insincere about people who follow GAA, they could easily do something else when matches are on if they wanted to.The womens football final had about 50k in attendance this year.

Gaelic games are much much bigger than boxing in this country and therefore you are obviously going to get more votes for a GAA moment as it means more to the general public here than boxing does.

It's a fair point though I took a peek and interestingly the all Ireland broke the record or viewership at 1.3mn this year, but before that it appears to have been our 2015 Rugby World Cup game against France at 1.2mn. Last year, the France, Italy and Sweden games in the Euros all got higher ratings than the final (the Belgium game also got more than the replay, which was fifth). In 2014 it was Ireland vs France in the rugby again, and then in 2013 it was the GAA again.

The Austria game was the only real competition for GAA this year but I can't find the ratings for the second leg (first leg was just under 1.07mn I think it said) as other sports are quiet, though the McGregor fight a few months back while not on RTE was the second most purchased boxing PPV of all time.

Anyway just found it interesting.

mikeysmith

harpsman wrote: »

Hate is a nasty word but joe and Eamon are certainly nasty people. But sure, he might just dislike Barry, but if you’re saying on tv that you don’t like someone personally it usually means it’s a bit stronger than general dislike

Brolly travels all over the country doing charity work for free ,he's not all bad

SuperSean11

Chivito550 wrote: »

Not sure if this has been discussed here, but I watched last week's episode of Ireland's Greatest Sporting Moment, and Joe Brolly and Eamonn Dunphy lambasted Barry McGuigan.

Is this criticism valid?

Brolly went so far to say "I don't like the man".

https://www.balls.ie/boxing/joe-brolly-eamon-dunphy-barry-mcguigan-377408

You lost me at Joe Brolly

walshb

mikeysmith wrote: »

Brolly travels all over the country doing charity work for free ,he's not all bad

That’s great. He still came across as a pr1ck on the show.

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

So what...

Who’s voting? GAA people, or people who may want to just support the whole Irishness of the GAA?

Take any poll anywhere and ask general people to pick Darby out of a lineup and next to nobody would. Barry would be picked out by anyone who is of a certain age..he is far more known..

I am not a GAA fan, although I have huge admiration for them. Maybe it’s just me, but I always got the feeling that a huge portion of people “supporting” or watching it are doing it more out of a duty and to be seen to be popular and with the crowd as opposed to actually genuinely liking the game..

Similar to rugby of recent years. It just lacks sincerity.

LOL

walshb

Sweet Science wrote: »

LOL

It's why only the crowds/fans seem to be so enthused come semi finals and finals day...

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

It's why only the crowds/fans seem to be so enthused come semi finals and finals day...

In fairness I think you’re merely describing the well known fair weather supporting syndrome which isn’t unique to any one sport. It’s the same reason the stadium would be half empty on national finals night but you wouldn’t get a ticket for love nor money if, say, Katie Taylor was boxing for Olympic gold in Dublin.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

In fairness I think you’re merely describing the well known fair weather supporting syndrome which isn’t unique to any one sport. It’s the same reason the stadium would be half empty on national finals night but you wouldn’t get a ticket for love nor money if, say, Katie Taylor was boxing for Olympic gold in Dublin.

I know. The same can be said for many sports. I juts happen to think GAA exhibits it more than a lot. Mainly due to the OTT claiming of it being "your sport". It's part of our identity, and will see people feign interest and feign excitement around it.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I know. The same can be said for many sports. I juts happen to think GAA exhibits it more than a lot. Mainly due to the OTT claiming of it being "your sport". It's part of our identity, and will see people feign interest and feign excitement around it.

Don’t know if you’re right or not but feign is a loaded word. Maybe the reason you might get more of them in sports like gaa or rugby (Munster anybody?) is the pure social aspect of it, the promise that there’s going to be a good p!ss up, win or lose. Either way, I don’t believe it’s entirely accurate to say they’re feigning it.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Don’t know if you’re right or not but feign is a loaded word. Maybe the reason you might get more of them in sports like gaa or rugby (Munster anybody?) is the pure social aspect of it, the promise that there’s going to be a good p!ss up, win or lose. Either way, I don’t believe it’s entirely accurate to say they’re feigning it.

Many are feigning it. Of course they are....it's not a dig at them. It's the truth. Part of the gang, the click, the kool kids...not a sniff of genuine interest in the sport. You said it yourself. The social aspect of it. The piss up....that's exactly what it is to many, hence feigning an actual sporting interest.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Many are feigning it. Of course they are....it's not a dig at them. It's the truth. Part of the gang, the click, the kool kids...not a sniff of genuine interest in the sport. You said it yourself. The social aspect of it. The piss up....that's exactly what it is to many, hence feigning an actual sporting interest.

Yes but if that is the case I still don’t get why you suggest this is particularly prevalent in Gaa. In fact I think the best example of what you describe would be a world title fight with its tiered rows of celebrities and beautiful people all trussed up for the cameras. The higher profile the occasion, the greater the proportion of event junkies. That is a truism for all sports, not just one.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes but if that is the case I still don’t get why you suggest this is particularly prevalent in Gaa. In fact I think the best example of what you describe would be a world title fight with its tiered rows of celebrities and beautiful people all trussed up for the cameras. The higher profile the occasion, the greater the proportion of event junkies. That is a truism for all sports, not just one.

I just don't see the boxing example as a comparison. Big fights have always attracted stars from all walks of life. That is the fight game. It's like no other for this. I am well aware that many are there with next to no interest or passion for the sport. It's the event.

In Ireland I think it's more clearly prevalent in GAA, and always has been. A huge "following" from non followers...

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I just don't see the boxing example as a comparison. Big fights have always attracted stars from all walks of life. That is the fight game. It's like no other for this. I am well aware that many are there with next to no interest or passion for the sport. It's the event.

In Ireland I think it's more clearly prevalent in GAA, and always has been. A huge "following" from non followers...

So basically big boxing fights attract lots of “non followers” seduced by the event and minor fights don’t. I still don’t get why that’s any different to big Gaa matches attracting much bigger crowds than small ones. I think I am missing something here but don’t know what it could be.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

So basically big boxing fights attract lots of “non followers” seduced by the event and minor fights don’t. I still don’t get why that’s any different to big Gaa matches attracting much bigger crowds than small ones. I think I am missing something here but don’t know what it could be.

You're missing nothing.....stop looking.

All sports attract "fake" fans......

GAA for me stands out here in Ireland.....

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

You're missing nothing.....stop looking.

All sports attract "fake" fans......

GAA for me stands out here in Ireland.....

I’m either missing something or you’re not explaining it. The only reason I can fathom you single out the Gaa is because it draws the biggest crowds but still, percentage wise, I don’t believe they are fundamentally different than any other sport.

megadodge

pac_man wrote: »

That's kinda stating the obvious. Gaelic games are the most popular sports in Ireland, therefore it's going to have the most people on the bandwagon.

I can't believe somebody had to spell it out!

walshb

pac_man wrote: »

That's kinda stating the obvious. Gaelic games are the most popular sports in Ireland, therefore it's going to have the most people on the bandwagon.

Exactly my point.......

I even alluded to this in my posts. The penny drops. It's part of our identity. Our national sport...hence to me it's more prevalent as regards bandwagoners.

The fact that it's part of our identity, our national sport, there's that added "pressure" to almost claim you like it. Sacrilegious to not like it. That is the vibe I get. Hence why it's not comparable to other non national sports....

I am sure other countries could relate with their national sports. Like Rugger in Wales, or NFL in the U.S.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I’m either missing something or you’re not explaining it. The only reason I can fathom you single out the Gaa is because it draws the biggest crowds but still, percentage wise, I don’t believe they are fundamentally different than any other sport.

I singled out GAA because of its place in our history and its place on this island. I mentioned in previous posts about its national identity with us.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I singled out GAA because of its place in our history and its place on this island. I mentioned in previous posts about its national identity with us.

I understand all that but it doesn’t prove anything for me as regards bandwagon levels. If there is some kind of pressure on people to claim to like GAA, how does it manifest itself?

megadodge

walshb wrote: »

Exactly my point.......

I even alluded to this in my posts. The penny drops. It's part of our identity. Our national sport...hence to me it's more prevalent as regards bandwagoners.

The fact that it's part of our identity, our national sport there's that added "pressure" to almost claim you like it. Sacrilegious to not like it. That is the vibe I get. Hence why it's not comparable to other non national sports....

I am sure other countries could relate with their national sports. Like Rugger in Wales, or NFL in the U.S.

The above reasons are precisely why Seamus Darby's goal ranks so highly in Irish people's memories of the 1980s.

It's only natural when so many watch the sport and idenify with it that so many remember its most famous moment 35 years later. It's not rocket science!

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I understand all that but it doesn’t prove anything for me as regards bandwagon levels. If there is some kind of pressure on people to claim to like GAA, how does it manifest itself?

I didn't imply for it to prove anything. I said it's a vibe that I get. People pretending they give a fook about GAA. Many out of a sense of duty due to the fact of its "importance" to our country and our people.

Sweet Science

walshb wrote: »

I didn't imply for it to prove anything. I said it's a vibe that I get. People pretending they give a fook about GAA. Many out of a sense of duty due to the fact of its "importance" to our country and our people.

I really doubt they are jumping on the bandwagon for the reason above. I would say its for the same reason it happens in every sport all over the world . A big day out , on the gargle, selfies,getting likes on social media etc

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I didn't imply for it to prove anything. I said it's a vibe that I get. People pretending they give a fook about GAA. Many out of a sense of duty due to the fact of its "importance" to our country and our people.

Don’t get it at all but no worries, it’s your vibe and you’re sticking to it!

Don Kiddick

megadodge wrote: »

The above reasons are precisely why Seamus Darby's goal ranks so highly in Irish people's memories of the 1980s.

It's only natural when so many watch the sport and idenify with it that so many remember its most famous moment 35 years later. It's not rocket science!

It's daft to think it's the most memorable moment in sport though,...not even close

megadodge

Don Kiddick wrote: »

It's daft to think it's the most memorable moment in sport though,...not even close

Who said it was?

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Don’t get it at all but no worries, it’s your vibe and you’re sticking to it!

I get it. And I get it for reasons I have given....

Separately: The rugger is also fashionable now to support...

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I get it. And I get it for reasons I have given....

Separately: The rugger is also fashionable now to support...

How does mma fit into this world view? The olympics every 4 years? What makes one event or sport more fashionable than another? If it’s patriotic pride that accounts for GAA fakery, what then explains the rugby?

Sorry for all the questions. I am genuinely curious...

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

How does mma fit into this world view? The olympics every 4 years? What makes one event or sport more fashionable than another? If it’s patriotic pride that accounts for GAA fakery, what then explains the rugby?

Sorry for all the questions. I am genuinely curious...

Olympics is every four years...

GAA is incessant all year round....

There are differences. Well, to me anyway. No issue with anyone watching the games every 4 years and pretending to give a sh1t. The Olympics usually brings out a little fan in even the most anti spots people. There's so much to look at and choose from.

Same with World Cup. I like soccer. Not all that much, but I absolutely love the WC and the Euros....

Why, because it's special. It's not rammed down your throat every day of the week like GAA and soccer leagues.

A huge level of specialness' is lost for me with sport, because of the saturation of it....It's non stop. That is why the Olympics and WCs are always brilliant. You appreciate them much more.

Rugby is like soccer now. Non fooking stop. I really enjoy rugby WC and six nations, but the amount of pointless matches in between doesn't do it for me.

I suppose my general and overall point is the saturation of sport on society IMO leads to a sort of blandness and dullness.

Boxing is not immune from this saturation.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

What makes one event or sport more fashionable than another? If it’s patriotic pride that accounts for GAA fakery, what then explains the rugby?
.

The amount of hype and media makes some sports far more fashionable to "follow" and like. All part of being in the crowd and in the loop. It's just people being themselves. Hence why GAA/Soccer and rugby, being very popular here in Ireland will have a lot of bandwagoners.

Sports like track and swimming. Who is going to pretend to like these sports?

Rowing was all the rage after Rio!:)

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Olympics is every four years...

GAA is incessant all year round....

There are differences. Well, to me anyway. No issue with anyone watching the games every 4 years and pretending to give a sh1t. The Olympics usually brings out a little fan in even the most anti spots people. There's so much to look at and choose from.

Same with World Cup. I like soccer. Not all that much, but I absolutely love the WC and the Euros....

Why, because it's special. It's not rammed down your throat every day of the week like GAA and soccer leagues.

A huge level of specialness' is lost for me with sport, because of the saturation of it....It's non stop. That is why the Olympics and WCs are always brilliant. You appreciate them much more.

Rugby is like soccer now. Non fooking stop. I really enjoy rugby WC and six nations, but the amount of pointless matches in between doesn't do it for me.

I suppose my general and overall point is the saturation of sport on society IMO leads to a sort of blandness and dullness.

Boxing is not immune from this saturation.

Well I certainly agree with that, though it seems we’ve drifted a bit from the point. Everything is too accessible now, too much of a good thing is killing the romance that drew us as kids. I’ve always been a big snooker fan and now there are tournaments every week and it’s tiring me out. Too much bread and not enough butter as the old saying goes.

walshb

I suppose the best analogy is that GAA is what religion was years ago. Brainwashed into people....

That is not me slating it. Like I said, I really admire the organisation, and its organisation and passion and commitment. It makes me proud to be Irish.

That is why for me it stands on its own for this discussion that we are having as regards sports fans and followers and bandwagoners.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

The amount of hype and media makes some sports far more fashionable to "follow" and like. All part of being in the crowd and in the loop. It's just people being themselves. Hence why GAA/Soccer and rugby, being very popular here in Ireland will have a lot of bandwagoners.

Sports like track and swimming. Who is going to pretend to like these sports?

Rowing was all the rage after Rio!:)

And this I agree with too. Bit of chicken and egg though, they are popular because they get the coverage or the other way round?

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

And this I agree with too. Bit of chicken and egg though, they are popular because they get the coverage or the other way round?

Bit of both I reckon.....

Most of the time it's a day out for people, whether it be to the game or the pub

Then there are many who don't want to be "left" out and pretend they watched this or that or enjoyed this or that.

I have seen it many times. So many people in their colors in the boozer pretending they are there to watch the match. They couldn't give a toss about the match really. Team sports will always get a huge support and following....how authentic that support is we can't know.

walshb

Anyway, back on topic I think Houghton or O'Leary's moments were the best and most memorable and widely known and loved.

Just a pity it wasn't an Irishman scoring against England in Stuttgart.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

I suppose the best analogy is that GAA is what religion was years ago. Brainwashed into people....

That is not me slating it. Like I said, I really admire the organisation, and its organisation and passion and commitment. It makes me proud to be Irish.

That is why for me it stands on its own for this discussion that we are having as regards sports fans and followers and bandwagoners.

I do get this but seems to belong to a different discussion to me. The GAAs cultural and political power is well documented, and there’s good and bad in it imo, but I don’t see it as related to what we are discussing, or not in a major way at least.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

Anyway, back on topic I think Houghton or O'Leary's moments were the best and most memorable and widely known and loved.

Just a pity it wasn't an Irishman scoring against England in Stuttgart.

For me personally the Euro 88 one stands out more. It was all still a little bit lower key at that point, all that Jackie’s army, ole ole stuff had yet to seriously kick in. And not least, they didn’t stink the place out with their tactics that summer.

Don Kiddick

megadodge wrote: »

Who said it was?

Some of the posters creaming themselves on this thread

megadodge

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Some of the posters creaming themselves on this thread

Nobody claimed it was the greatest moment in sport.

snowflaker

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/other/joe-brolly-hits-out-at-rtes-false-apology-to-wee-s-barry-mcguigan-817258.html

Joe Brolly- what a cockwomble

Joe_ Public

snowflaker wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/other/joe-brolly-hits-out-at-rtes-false-apology-to-wee-s-barry-mcguigan-817258.html

Joe Brolly- what a cockwomble

snowflaker wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/sport/other/joe-brolly-hits-out-at-rtes-false-apology-to-wee-s-barry-mcguigan-817258.html

Joe Brolly- what a cockwomble

Kind of agree with him a bit on the lickspittle nature of the apology. Brolly is a fool but the issue here is RTÉ. Create a cliched oul shyte of a programme designed to drum up debate and then shy away cravenly when a contributor goes too far. There should have been someone there to challenge Brolly on his rubbish on the night but there was only Sonia who took everything the two idiots said as gospel. Now they’re delighted because they can go down with Myers and hook as victims of free speech!

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Kind of agree with him a bit on the lickspittle nature of the apology. Brolly is a fool but the issue here is RTÉ. Create a cliched oul shyte of a programme designed to drum up debate and then shy away cravenly when a contributor goes too far. There should have been someone there to challenge Brolly on his rubbish on the night but there was only Sonia who took everything the two idiots said as gospel. Now they’re delighted because they can go down with Myers and hook as victims of free speech!

That's it. RTE should have defended the character assassination there and then. They didn't. And Sonia was no better...

RTE are right. It went against the spirit of the show. Was in very bad taste. Two grade A pr1cks.

And still brolly is having a pop at Barry.....not content to stfu and leave it...

If Barry comes across him and chins him I will laugh!

Joe_ Public

The “wee shyte” comment seems typical Brolly. Having another pop and deflecting with attempted humour at the same time. A smart cookie all the same.

The so-called spirit of the show is one of the problems for me, all happy clappy, remember how great we were etc. RTE presenters are terrified of giving offense to the point where they’ll rush out and apologize in another’s behalf. And Barry should be big enough to fight his own battles, if what Brolly is saying about him contacting the station is true.

walshb

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The “wee shyte” comment seems typical Brolly. Having another pop and deflecting with attempted humour at the same time. A smart cookie all the same.

The so-called spirit of the show is one of the problems for me, all happy clappy, remember how great we were etc. RTE presenters are terrified of giving offense to the point where they’ll rush out and apologize in another’s behalf. And Barry should be big enough to fight his own battles, if what Brolly is saying about him contacting the station is true.

You can dismiss or question or even criticize in a respectable and stylish manner....whilst putting across valid and analysed points.

I think Ruby was dismissive of Houghton's USA '94 moment. He did it in a decent and spirited way.

Brolly simply went on a character assassination and could not hide his disdain for Barry. Dunphy , although not as hostile, was still out of line....

Hence it was in bad taste and against the spirit of the show.

What you mean by Barry being big enough to fight his own battles should what Brolly be saying is true?

If Barry contacted to complain he was spot on to do so.

Joe_ Public

walshb wrote: »

You can dismiss or question or even criticize in a respectable and stylish manner....whilst putting across valid and analysed points.

I think Ruby was dismissive of Houghton's USA '94 moment. He did it in a decent and spirited way.

Brolly simply went on a character assassination and could not hide his disdain for Barry. Dunphy , although not as hostile, was still out of line....

Hence it was in bad taste and against the spirit of the show.

What you mean by Barry being big enough to fight his own battles should what Brolly be saying is true?

If Barry contacted to complain he was spot on to do so.

Yes, I’m not disagreeing fundamentally, just that the whole “spirit” of the thing seems lame to me and part of the reason the apology feels equally lame and next to pointless.

If he was so inclined I think Barry, with just cause, needed to tackle it directly and not have RTE do his bidding in such an ineffectual way. Does he leave it now that Brolly has produced an encore? Maybe he should. Hard to win any battle against the motormouth.