Disc brakes and racing

magicbastarder

what if you don't race?

Lumen

Nineties - Welcome to the internet

magicbastarder wrote: »

what if you don't race?

Well the thread is titled "Disc brakes and racing", so that would be off-topic :pac:

Macy0161

2014

Voted, as even though I haven't raced, I probably would've if it hadn't been for having a disc braked bike!

secman

Eighties - Where all great things came from

I'm a rebel, don't race and voted.... wild thing I tell ya

magicbastarder

BANNED

doozerie

Nineties - Welcome to the internet

I'm curious as to why people believe there would be a huge increase in crashes if bunches were a mix of rim and disc brakes. I think race bunches are a fraught place to be not because of the effectiveness or otherwise of peoples' brakes but simply because you never know when someone is going to use their brakes in the first place. At the first hint of any brake being applied, hysteria washes over the bunch. It's not unlike chucking a mouse into a room of elephants (allegedly).

Pick any A4 (in particular) race bunch today and I reckon you'll find a wide variety of rim brakes of various levels of effectiveness (I find my rim brakes great, I've heard others say similarly about theirs, I don't recognise the "rubbish rim brakes" that some people refer to), and a wide variety of bike handling skills which play a huge part in determining whether someone will come a cropper or not when the hysteria kicks in.

I'm sure that there are scenarios where a mix of disc and rim brakes could cause problems but I think in the general case there are other factors that are more relevant.

Cookie_Monster

why/when did this turn into a what bike do I have thread?

CramCycle

2014

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why/when did this turn into a what bike do I have thread?

I think it evolved from the what if we all have to buy new bikes because Discs will be forced.

As Doozerie said though, I don't actually think it will make a difference at A4 level (where it is most likely to be seen).

secman

Eighties - Where all great things came from

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why/when did this turn into a what bike do I have thread?

It just evolved, remember the wheel......evolution my friend

doozerie

Nineties - Welcome to the internet

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why/when did this turn into a what bike do I have thread?

The thread careered out of control. There is some debate about whether it was equipped with rim brakes or disc brakes, and therefore where blame should lie.

dahat

I'd rather two stronger legs than better brakes but you can't buy them so think I'll keep my hard earned away disc brakes..

An auld lad racing on old fashioned rim brakes...

robyntmorton

It was always going to turn into a disc measuring contest. That's what male racing cyclists do (or so I'm told)

saccades

Seventies - Apparently were misery came home to roost

nee wrote: »

I agree with the above. I also think it's only a matter of time before they make disc bikes as light as rim-braked bikes.

Sorry, I meant to follow up earlier. I'll be stunned if disc framed bikes get to rim braked weights - CEN testing means that a disc frame needs extra material to withstand the extra forces as discs are at the end of a long lever (forks). Until 2" steerers forks with one prong (ala cannondale lefty) which would be incredibly stiff for the same weight as regular forks arrive,will they be made.... how stiff does a frame need to be before it is unridable.

There is room to develop on wheels as you don't need the braking track.

Personally, I hope that the whenever the rules change and the first tranche of disk-equipped freds show up to race in spring, they are mocked and derided mercilessly, to the point of tears and deep deep buyer's remorse.

I hope they leave you miles behind if that is your attitude to new riders.

Racing a bike with disk brakes should be seen as an open declaration of incompetence, naivety, neophytism, and disrespect to the sport, your fellow competitor, nature, your country, the cycling gods, and Sean Kelly himself. Hopefully that taboo will be established and disks will be like hairy legs or helmets with peaks on them - not illegal, but frowned upon with a severity sufficient to keep the numbers down.

So Boonan and Kittel are incompetent and naive? I think a look in the mirror might be in order.

cunavalos

The UCI have announced the end of the trial period for disc brakes in the pro-peloton and changing the rules to allow their use in all cycling events. I expect Cycling Ireland to follow suit

"Following nearly three years of tests, and in agreement with various stakeholders – teams, riders, mechanics, fans, commissaires, and the bicycle industry via the World Federation of the Sporting Goods Industry (WFGSGI) – the decision has been taken to authorise disc brakes for road and BMX Racing, as of 1st July this year. Point 1.3.025 of the UCI Regulations will be amended to this effect, to allow the use of disc brakes during training and competitions for road and BMX Racing, as is already the case for cyclo-cross, mountain bike, trials and mass participation events."

The source is from a UCI bulletin released today
http://www.uci.ch/pressreleases/the-management-committee-approves-agenda-2022-commits-greater-gender-equality-and-strengthens-its-ethics-regulations/

Fian

2014

harringtonp wrote: »

One reason not to which they didn't mention is wheel compatibility. With rim brakes you can buy any road rim wheel out there and it fits. With disc wheels you get into axle sizes and there is no standard yet.

And on the weight thing from looking I've done its not just a few grams. You can get a rim brake bike weighing 7kg for 2500 but can anybody link to a disc brake bike for <2500 with a weight anywhere near 7.5

https://www.rosebikes.com/rose-x-lite-cdx-ultegra-2661617

€3,200 - 7.2kg.

Mine is disc braked, also from rose, also claimed 7.2kg on their site iirc.

Was less than €3k when i bought it about 2/3 years ago, with ultegra Di2. Seems not to be available anymore.

Rose Xeon cdx 3100 di2

Macy0161

2014

Going to update my view as I've new rim brake bike since. In the dry I see little difference between Ultegra Calipers and the mechanical discs. In the wet, the discs make a noticeable difference. I do have ongoing issues with brake rub (from on and off the direct driver turbo) with the discs, and the bads seem to get contaminated pretty quick on wet winter roads, resulting in regular squeals from the brakes. The rim brakes are just easier for me to manage/ maintain.

CramCycle

2014

Jebus, A4 is bad enough with people randomly tapping brakes in the bunch for sh1ts and giggles.

eeeee

2011

Nooooooooooooooooooo

Lumen

Nineties - Welcome to the internet

It'll be fine. There's already a big brake performance differential in the wet between those on carbon and alu rims, and I don't remember anyone calling for alu rims to be banned for this reason.

CramCycle

2014

Lumen wrote: »

It'll be fine. There's already a big brake performance differential in the wet between those on carbon and alu rims, and I don't remember anyone calling for alu rims to be banned for this reason.

I don't so much notice a difference rather a reluctance of those on Carbons to hit the brakes. Would it be as much of a difference?

Chips Lovell

Nineties - Welcome to the internet

AFAIK, Cycling Ireland could still opt to continue to ban discs.

They'd just have to allow them in UCI races, i.e. the Ras and the Nationals.

Lumen

Nineties - Welcome to the internet

CramCycle wrote: »

I don't so much notice a difference rather a reluctance of those on Carbons to hit the brakes. Would it be as much of a difference?

In my admittedly modest Irish road racing racing experience there are two types of brake application: gentle (slowing for corners) and everything (someone has fallen off in front of you).

In the first case brake performance doesn't make any difference, in the second it does.

Until now it's been quite rare to blame the person in front for braking too hard coming up to a crash but maybe this will be a new thing.

CramCycle

2014

The other one I have experienced is people accidentally squeezing the brakes as they change gears going up hill or when they pull on the hoods. It's annoying as f@ck. Creates a ripple effect in the group but admittedly, no one has died, YET

eeeee

2011

I've raced with people jabbing on the brakes all the time. I did it myself when I started. If those people have discs... ugh. I guess they will now.
There's no need for them! It'll be years and years before i can afford a disc equipped race bike. That annoys me. Two brake-speed peloton is upon us!

at1withmyself

nee wrote: »

Two brake-speed peloton is upon us!

As above it already is with aluminium and carbon brake surfaces and no one queries that so I don't see the issue.

CramCycle

2014

at1withmyself wrote: »

As above it already is with aluminium and carbon brake surfaces and no one queries that so I don't see the issue.

Is there not a world of difference between this and disc braking?

To be honest I am not overly concerned. I can't remember CIs statement, they were following UCI but I presume they are not changing their mind mid season.

A discussion for the AGM. Any issues in the UK with it?

at1withmyself

CramCycle wrote: »

Is there not a world of difference between this and disc braking?

I would say the difference between aluminum rims and carbon rims would be worse then the difference between disc's VS aluminum in wet weather. In the dry it wouldn't e as bad but carbon rims are still very poor imo in wet weather dispite the marketing ****e.

I just think it's a non issue as rider skill, reaction time etc.. could be a bigger impact.

CramCycle

2014

at1withmyself wrote: »

I just think it's a non issue as rider skill, reaction time etc.. could be a bigger impact.

Fair point, hence my crack at A4. Not really going to be an issue at A1 or A2.

Cookie_Monster

nee wrote: »

There's no need for them!

There's every need. You think F1 or any other motorsport would go back and use drum brakes given the choice??
The performance is so much better they should be mandatory, never mind simply just starting to allow them, especially at pro level.

andy69

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

There's every need. You think F1 or any other motorsport would go back and use drum brakes given the choice??
The performance is so much better they should be mandatory, never mind simply just starting to allow them, especially at pro level.

...but...Drum Brakes and Rim Brakes aren't the same at all, so I don't think we can equate them here in an attempt to argue in favour of Disc just because Drums were so poor.

I still think the Disc brakes look rubbish - albeit an improvement with that latest DuraAce version with normal-looking hoods and with the rotor design improved. They still seem to be a nightmare (by comparison to Rim) for general maintenance and hassle with contamination and squealing and bleeding and balance and what have ye. Not for me - I'll hold out, thank you!