Gerry Adams to announce retirement from President of Sinn Fein

maccored

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I had a family member involved with the RA I also lost a friend to the Crown forces. I can honestly say violence solves nothing. I do remember having to run like the wind when leaving Strabane into Lifford one day after getting abuse off some sqaudies. They had a habit back then of kicking the crap out of 'taigs' for sport.

i know. five of them chased me out of a nightclub in omagh.

maccored

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think a hard border has the potential to split SF.
Adams spelled it out for Varadkar tonight. Use the veto if he has to.
I can see FG doing a John Bruton simper on it yet tbh.

a hard border I think will change everything in the republican movement. The cracks have been there for quite a while, as far as the peace process goes, so i think a hard border will be a crack too much

Hitman3000

FrancieBrady wrote:

It cannot be denied he was pivotal in ending it. There are still some in conflict though because they won't let go of their need to have a veto.

I recognised his contribution to the ending of the killings in my post.

FrancieBrady

maccored wrote: »

a hard border I think will change everything in the republican movement. The cracks have been there for quite a while, as far as the peace process goes, so i think a hard border will be a crack too much

A hard border changes everything, full stop.

0ph0rce0

maccored wrote: »

i was born there and grew up throughout the 70s/80s and 90s. I can understand and do understand how and why SF developed and Im glad eventually we got to where we are. Its something a lot of southern people just dont get (or havent bothered educating themselves on the subject enough.) My view is quite simple - adams never took any IRA oath or allegiance, but he was very much involved int he republican struggle from a very early stage. Was he involved in IRA plans and organising jobs? I'd say yes. I think his denial of IRA membership is correct, but purely technical. In saying all this - if you were him (and others like him) at that time, living in that environment, what would you do? It takes balls to stand up to something like the british government and their army. I was never tempted to join the ira because I never had the bollocks.

I'd be the same, Politics would be last on the agenda from me but
It's nice to see someone who actually lived through it.

When you your woke up in the morning as a child and dragged from your bed. Watching your house smashed to pieces week after week after week for no reason at all. So called soldiers dragging me and my family from their beds, mother, grandmother, father, brothers, sisters and lining you all up in the living room with guns to your head, Saying finish them. FINISH THEM? WHO ARE WE. NOBODY'S.

Watching your families face getting smashed in by butts of rifles, Watching teeth fly across the room. Watching these same ***** pull a trigger and put a bullet in your family.

Having to put bullet proof metal and glass sheets on your front and back doors & windows so the bastards couldn't get in. Iron bars to hold the door also. Cages on the stairs just to give you time to get ready for a beating before they cut through it.

Trying to go to school without being threatened and ridiculed for just being born.

Worrying walking just up a street for fear of being shot.

You try grow up in the worst area in Belfast. If you lived through it you don't need me to tell you the area you'll know.

Had I have been many years older. I'd have signed up, taken the gun and I'd have had no hesitation putting a bullet in everyone of the ****ers.

ancapailldorcha

Owryan wrote: »

FYP

sdanseo wrote: »

Starting to think that way myself. Populist scumbags doing anything and everything the masses will find palatable.

Our local SF TD was drafted in from the other side of the county - not even a local yet those who know absolutely about politics and only cared about water meters voted her in anyway.

Cut the nonsense posting and name calling please.

maccored

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I'd be the same, Politics would be last on the agenda from me but
It's nice to see someone who actually lived through it.

When you your woke up in the morning as a child and dragged from your bed. Watching your house smashed to pieces week after week after week for no reason at all. So called soldiers dragging me and my family from their beds, mother, grandmother, father, brothers, sisters and lining you all up in the living room with guns to your head, Saying finish them. FINISH THEM? WHO ARE WE. NOBODY'S.

Watching your families face getting smashed in by butts of rifles, Watching teeth fly across the room. Watching these same ***** pull a trigger and put a bullet in your family.

Having to put bullet proof metal and glass sheets on your front and back doors & windows so the bastards couldn't get in. Iron bars to hold the door also. Cages on the stairs just to give you time to get ready for a beating before they cut through it.

Trying to go to school without being threatened and ridiculed for just being born.

Worrying walking just up a street for fear of being shot.

You try grow up in the worst area in Belfast. If you lived through it you don't need me to tell you the area you'll know.

Had I have been many years older. I'd have signed up, taken the gun and I'd have had no hesitation putting a bullet in everyone of the ****ers.

for me it was more being harassed by the RUC or the UDR where ever you went.

On duty soldiers werent that bad. Off duty soldiers weirdly had a tendency to know you were a catholic and try to kick you face in for it

kingbhome

blanch152 wrote: »

Huh? Him and Jackie Healy-Rae are about equal in their positive contribution to Irish political life.

However, he does beat the bould Jackie in terms of having a bigger negative contribution.

I cannot think of a single achievement of Gerry Adams in government, oops, he was never in government, just like Jackie Healy-Rae.

Let me see, he did look after his friends and relatives (remember he found that job for Liam in Louth when nobody in the North would hire him) just like the Healy-Raes look after each other.

He made some colourful fanciful speeches, just like like the bould Jackie and climate change.

Yes, our Gerry is right up there with the greats of Killorglin.

Reading this post im sitting here thinking are you a young school kid in an adults body. All i can do is lol at such nonsense!

0ph0rce0

maccored wrote: »

for me it was more being harassed by the RUC or the UDR where ever you went.

On duty soldiers werent that bad. Off duty soldiers weirdly had a tendency to know you were a catholic and try to kick you face in for it

Ardoyne was a war zone. If they got you up the bone you'd get a kickin.

kingbhome

Wether anybody likes it or not, Gerry Adams has been some man. He stood up for his people and took the fight right to the heart of the british establishment and had them all thinking where they going to be next. For that, i take my hat of to the man!! The british who has raped, slaughtered and destroyed everything in their path and here we have a wee paddy from the streets of a working class area in belfast brought the fight and brought them to the negotiating table and paved the way for a UI in the coming years. I dont agree with everything this man did during the troubles and in peace times but i do respect him as a brave Irish man who will go down in history as a fighter! Something that couldnt be aid about alot on this island and esp in this thread! Anyway, Tiocfaidh ar la. I hope you enjoy your retirement Gerry because youve earned it!!

kingbhome

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I'd be the same, Politics would be last on the agenda from me but
It's nice to see someone who actually lived through it.

When you your woke up in the morning as a child and dragged from your bed. Watching your house smashed to pieces week after week after week for no reason at all. So called soldiers dragging me and my family from their beds, mother, grandmother, father, brothers, sisters and lining you all up in the living room with guns to your head, Saying finish them. FINISH THEM? WHO ARE WE. NOBODY'S.

Watching your families face getting smashed in by butts of rifles, Watching teeth fly across the room. Watching these same ***** pull a trigger and put a bullet in your family.

Having to put bullet proof metal and glass sheets on your front and back doors & windows so the bastards couldn't get in. Iron bars to hold the door also. Cages on the stairs just to give you time to get ready for a beating before they cut through it.

Trying to go to school without being threatened and ridiculed for just being born.

Worrying walking just up a street for fear of being shot.

You try grow up in the worst area in Belfast. If you lived through it you don't need me to tell you the area you'll know.

Had I have been many years older. I'd have signed up, taken the gun and I'd have had no hesitation putting a bullet in everyone of the ****ers.

I know people who lived through it all and i tell you what, they went through some terrible ordeals! Alot here in the southern counties just dont understand this and would side with the brits because the west brit governments/media here have brain washed them into thinking rebelling against whats wrong is actually wrong. I take my hat of to those men who fought and died for a UI and for fighting against all the wrongs that went on up north. It wasnt nice but it was honorable! The fight continues through political means and who knows, it might just turn for the worse again with all this brexit and the men with the guns and bombs might just have to appear again untill we get control of whats rightly ours!

Jawgap

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I'm sure it is, Would you not let me pay for your surgery if you were dying. Again not that I know that he was dying but you would.

Well he wasn't dying, and there's a difference between me and someone who preaches against the elite.

The people were entitled to pay for air fare and surgery. He was entitled to accept their generosity. And we are entitled to regard his actions as being incongruent with his rhetoric to the point of them being hypocritical.

SF may brook no dissent on this point, but their writ doesn't run beyond the party.

Edward M

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Good to see him going on his own terms. Deserved after a phenomenal contribution to Irish politics.

I'd agree. Like or loathe, he has been an enormous presence for a couple of generations.
Many so called "acceptable' politicians would give their right arm for the successes he has overseen.

FrancieBrady

I checked the SF manifesto there and I didn't see anything about not accepting the gift of a comfortable seat on a jet for a few hours.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I checked the SF manifesto there and I didn't see anything about not accepting the gift of a comfortable seat on a jet for a few hours.

Theres nothing at all against the rules or the law.

But when a politician from another party does something like this, SF will go to the dail and scream from the rooftops about it. :pac:


They are the party of the ordinary people and the working classes. (with American millionaire friends )

tomwaterford

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Theres nothing at all against the rules or the law.

But when a politician from another party does something like this, SF will go to the dail and scream from the rooftops about it. :pac:


They are the party of the ordinary people and the working classes. (with American millionaire friends )

Tbf it deos highlight horrendous inequalities and asks questions of why lads in america would pay for his treatment....while poor in their own country go without??
Why are these lads (thankfully) backing/sup porting irish socialism and doing nothing to get a socialist party up and running in america



I'd hate hate to see ireland end up with a medical care system like America....in no world is it right to dent someone treatment for being poor

tomwaterford

tomwaterford wrote: »

Tbf it deos highlight horrendous inequalities and asks questions of why lads in america would pay for his treatment....while poor in their own country go without??
Why are these lads (thankfully) backing/sup porting irish socialism and doing nothing to get a socialist party up and running in america



I'd hate hate to see ireland end up with a medical care system like America....in no world is it right to dent someone treatment for being poor

SF are socialist now?

Everyone is a bloody socialist in the dail until they have to go into government and actually have to make real spending decisions. :P

Samaris

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I have no truck with SF but seriously cop on, Adams had a pivotal rule in the peace process as much as that may irk you it's a fact. He's no angel but he had a hand in ending the slaughter in the north.

Yeees. I'm always a little dubious about this. The GFA was a fantastic and valuable piece of work that has improved things beyond measure in NI. But given his background and a deep national suspicion that he was, personally, involved in the violence, there's a part of me that has never been comfortable potentially lauding a man who stopped ordering murders.

By all accounts a charming man in person and intelligent and able to lead. But..

Meh, I don't know for sure and probably never will. But I don't like him and I'm glad to see him leave politics, along with the rest of the old guard, the visible links to the bad old days.

tomwaterford

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

SF are socialist now?

Everyone is a bloody socialist in the dail until they have to go into government and actually have to make real spending decisions. :P

They have always stood on a socialist republican platform

The fact this is news to you,suggests your poorly informed and baffling...I assumed everyone knew this??

Edward M

Samaris wrote: »

Yeees. I'm always a little dubious about this. The GFA was a fantastic and valuable piece of work that has improved things beyond measure in NI. But given his background and a deep national suspicion that he was, personally, involved in the violence, there's a part of me that has never been comfortable potentially lauding a man who stopped ordering murders.

By all accounts a charming man in person and intelligent and able to lead. But..

Meh, I don't know for sure and probably never will. But I don't like him and I'm glad to see him leave politics, along with the rest of the old guard, the visible links to the bad old days.

The problem for SF is where the current party emanated from and their involvement with the IRA.
Put the clock back 100 years and the foundations of the Republic and are they any different than what we started off with?

Samaris

Samaris wrote: »

Meh, I don't know for sure and probably never will. But I don't like him and I'm glad to see him leave politics, along with the rest of the old guard, the visible links to the bad old days.

The next manouvre from SF will be interesting.

They have a skilled and able bunch of younger TDs these days, uninvolved in "the war" will THEY be happy to stay in eternal opposition or do they want to go into government where the real decisions are made?

They are going to continue to try and nibble at FFs bottom anyway :pac:

Samaris

Mccored &Hitman3000 - thanks for your perspectives and stories, btw. It is chilling to read what people remember of those times, and relatively recently at that.

I'm a southerner and my only personal experience as to what life could be like in an NI summer was when our little RoI car with English and Irish parents got lost in Belfast en route to Scotland and caught up in one of the August marches - my sibs got held up by the apprentice boys march, so it was day before that I think. Distinctly remember approx seven year old me waving innocently to one of the army men that escorted us out to safety, in the back of an open-backed army truck. (They waved back). A couple of stories from my father of visits up there back sometime in the 60s or 70s.

But all my impressions are otherwise only the bogeymen tales of the Troubles that I grew up with in the South, a long way from the Border. My feelings about Adams going might well be different if I had grown up in a mixed heritage household in Belfast. (I was raised as Irish Catholic.)

FrancieBrady

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

The next manouvre from SF will be interesting.

They have a skilled and able bunch of younger TDs these days, uninvolved in "the war" will THEY be happy to stay in eternal opposition or do they want to go into government where the real decisions are made?

They are going to continue to try and nibble at FFs bottom anyway :pac:

Michelle O'Neill endured 20 minutes of an 'interview' on RTE where she was constantly asked to condemn the IRA actions.
RTE and many southerners are unwilling to let the conflict/war end without their pound of hypocritical flesh with the younger TD's. I often sense that some are disappointed that SF haven't turned out to be blood thirsty psychopaths.

Many many societies have had conflict and war and many many have turned out to be better more equal societies as a result.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Many many societies have had conflict and war and many many have turned out to be better more equal societies as a result.

An interesting comment. Pretty much all revolution ends in war and bloodshed. However, to say things are necessarily better is a hard question to pin down. No one will know for sure what would have happened if the PIRA did not pick up arms and the John Hume version of peaceful non violent struggle continued without the backdrop of PIRA bombs. Perhaps we could have had peace and a more equal society decades before?

Perhaps not, but the primary objective of PIRA violence was to make the UK give up NI in the goal of a United Ireland. This was an utter failure so we have the narrative now that it was all about civil rights, which of courses was absurd!

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

An interesting comment. Pretty much all revolution ends in war and bloodshed. However, to say things are necessarily better is a hard question to pin down. No one will know for sure what would have happened if the PIRA did not pick up arms and the John Hume version of peaceful non violent struggle continued without the backdrop of PIRA bombs. Perhaps we could have had peace and a more equal society decades before?

Perhaps not, but the primary objective of PIRA violence was to make the UK give up NI in the goal of a United Ireland. This was an utter failure so we have the narrative now that it was all about civil rights, which of courses was absurd!

I believe the British presence is the root of all the civil rights and conflict issues. They underwrote the Unionist sectarian state and turned a blind eye to decades of misrule.

Hume's struggle was not peaceful, those who took part were beaten and intimidated off the streets. That was only going to be tolerated for so long.

You can perhaps and might all day long, the simple fact is that the conflict/war happened - it is over as a result of the GFA.
There are many people attempting to build the peace, Adams being one of them.

tomwaterford

tomwaterford wrote: »

They have always stood on a socialist republican platform

The fact this is news to you,suggests your poorly informed and baffling...I assumed everyone knew this??

Oh I know it...... but dont really believe it.
Are there sufficient votes there as a socialist to expand beyond their current base. AAA/PBP/SD/Lab all fighting in that small space.

They need a more broad based appeal to gain more seats.

McMurphy

Edward M wrote: »

The problem for SF is where the current party emanated from and their involvement with the IRA.
Put the clock back 100 years and the foundations of the Republic and are they any different than what we started off with?

Dunphy is insufferable at times, nonetheless, he sums up the hypocrisy in Ireland in this clip quite well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRaZybIQ_4U

MadYaker

They haven't gone away you know.

And they never will as long as Gerry is still drawing breath. I'll never vote SF as long as I live.

McMurphy

MadYaker wrote: »

They haven't gone away you now.

And they never will as long as Gerry is still drawing breath. I'll never vote SF as long as I live.

You live in a state where you have the freedom to vote how you choose, the foundations of which were built upon a path laid out by rebellion and revolution. (Did you miss the centenary celebrations last year?)

Which makes your comment above seem all the more ridiculous.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I believe the British presence is the root of all the civil rights and conflict issues. They underwrote the Unionist sectarian state and turned a blind eye to decades of misrule.

Hume's struggle was not peaceful, those who took part were beaten and intimidated off the streets. That was only going to be tolerated for so long.

You can perhaps and might all day long, the simple fact is that the conflict/war happened - it is over as a result of the GFA.
There are many people attempting to build the peace, Adams being one of them.

The British presence draw their mandate from the fact that the majority of the the North wanted to be part of the Union. The PIRA had no mandate to seek a UI by bombs and bullets. All the notion of fighting for civil rights went out the window when they planted their bombs in the North and the UK.

Hume's struggle was peaceful but as you are right, the police used violence to beat them off the street. Somewhat similar to the civil rights movement in the states. However, you did not see MLK go off then and set up a paramilitary organisation who planted bombs in New York and Boston. Just because the police beat you off the street does not mean you have moral authority to plant bombs and kill people.

MadYaker

Why is it that in the 34 years he has been leader of SF nobody else challenged him for the position??

holyhead

The world is truly changing alright. Mugabe virtually deposed and GA stepping down as President of Sinn Fein. The clip of Eamon Dunphy as posted above is interesting. He wants a Taoiseach to be honest and I think this is the tricky issue for GA. He has done trojan work in the pursuit of peace in Ireland. It is wasn't for himself and Martin McGuinness we may not have peace as we know it on the island. However his insistence that he wasn't in the IRA causes him great credibility issues and leaves him open to lampooning. His involvement or otherwise in the disappearance of Mrs McConville is another thorny issue particularly when it comes to writing up his legacy. Could he have done more to bring his brother Liam to justice. Gerry is a survivor, canny and very intelligent. You don't survive this long in the cut and thrust of political life not to be.
On balance I think he will ultimately be seen as a force for good and I wish him well for the future.

tomwaterford

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Oh I know it...... but dont really believe it.
Are there sufficient votes there as a socialist to expand beyond their current base. AAA/PBP/SD/Lab all fighting in that small space.

They need a more broad based appeal to gain more seats.

Or they can win people about to their way of thinking like politics normally work the world over?

Jawgap

It seems everyone wants to let bygones be bygones. Fair enough, it's a reasonable position to hold.

However, my own view is that's SF want everyone else to forget but they want to retain the right to selectively remember and apply history.

Frankly, I think GA's legacy will ultimately be defined in terms of failure. Brexit is likely to be the great defining issue of European politics for the next 2 decades, and the fact will always remain that when presented with a singular opportunity to moderate Brexit, and even derail the Tories, GA and SF opted to be bound by history and remain wedded to the anachronistic policy of abstentionism.

tomwaterford

MadYaker wrote: »

Why is it that in the 34 years he has been leader of SF nobody else challenged him for the position??

On what grounds would you deem.his leadership challengable??

On any measurement of a politian he's been successful and if anything longer he's been there,more successful he's been


Done well to step away before it got stale mind

tomwaterford

Jawgap wrote: »

It seems everyone wants to let bygones be bygones. Fair enough, it's a reasonable position to hold.

However, my own view is that's SF want everyone else to forget but they want to retain the right to selectively remember and apply history.

Frankly, I think GA's legacy will ultimately be defined in terms of failure. Brexit is likely to be the great defining issue of European politics for the next 2 decades, and the fact will always remain that when presented with a singular opportunity to moderate Brexit, and even derail the Tories, GA and SF opted to be bound by history and remain wedded to the anachronistic policy of abstentionism.

Hardly irelands job to save the British from. There own stupidity?

I would've taught he's have wanted a brexit out of ireland aswel?

MadYaker

tomwaterford wrote: »

On what grounds would you deem.his leadership challengable??

On any measurement of a politian he's been successful and if anything longer he's been there,more successful he's been


Done well to step away before it got stale mind

His grasp of the finer details of policy were poor especially when it comes to economics. His steadfast refusal to admit he was in the IRA damaged his credibilty because regardless of whether he was or he wasn't a lot of people believed he was. Then there was the whole mess with his brother which would have forced the resignation of any other party leader. He is the number 1 reason SF haven't been in gov in the south so in terms of what was good for the party id say his leadershp was extremely challengable, yet nobody challenged it. So ill ask again, why do you think that is?

tomwaterford

MadYaker wrote: »

His grasp of the finer details of policy were poor especially when it comes to economics. His steadfast refusal to admit he was in the IRA damaged his credibilty because regardless of whether he was or he wasn't a lot of people believed he was. Then there was the whole mess with his brother which would have forced the resignation of any other party leader. He is the number 1 reason SF haven't been in gov in the south so in terms of what was good for the party id say his leadershp was extremely challengable, yet nobody challenged it. So ill ask again, why do you think that is?

Are we to expect all those who all along found adams objective to suddenly flock to sinn fein??


Il not hold my breath on that ....if anything SF will do well to hold what they have at the next election


As far as I can see at every election under adams...they have increased there vote??

Is this not the ultimate test of a politican

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

The British presence draw their mandate from the fact that the majority of the the North wanted to be part of the Union. The PIRA had no mandate to seek a UI by bombs and bullets. All the notion of fighting for civil rights went out the window when they planted their bombs in the North and the UK.

Hume's struggle was peaceful but as you are right, the police used violence to beat them off the street. Somewhat similar to the civil rights movement in the states. However, you did not see MLK go off then and set up a paramilitary organisation who planted bombs in New York and Boston. Just because the police beat you off the street does not mean you have moral authority to plant bombs and kill people.

It's clear you don't see it as moral. But the fact is that there were those who saw it as the only moral choice.
You will always have those who oppose war. Which is a legitimate stance.
However the war is over and for 20 years this politician has not been at war, he has been building the peace. |
What is your moral stance on what he contributed to that btw?

FrancieBrady

Jawgap wrote: »

It seems everyone wants to let bygones be bygones. Fair enough, it's a reasonable position to hold.

However, my own view is that's SF want everyone else to forget but they want to retain the right to selectively remember and apply history.

Frankly, I think GA's legacy will ultimately be defined in terms of failure. Brexit is likely to be the great defining issue of European politics for the next 2 decades, and the fact will always remain that when presented with a singular opportunity to moderate Brexit, and even derail the Tories, GA and SF opted to be bound by history and remain wedded to the anachronistic policy of abstentionism.

Far too early to be judging that. Brexit hasn't even happened yet.

McMurphy

MadYaker wrote: »

His grasp of the finer details of policy were poor especially when it comes to economics. His steadfast refusal to admit he was in the IRA damaged his credibilty because regardless of whether he was or he wasn't a lot of people believed he was. Then there was the whole mess with his brother which would have forced the resignation of any other party leader. He is the number 1 reason SF haven't been in gov in the south so in terms of what was good for the party id say his leadershp was extremely challengable, yet nobody challenged it. So ill ask again, why do you think that is?

You want him to admit to something you yourself say he may or may not be guilty off, because regardless if he was or wasn't, some people think he was.

Am I reading this correctly?

tomwaterford

tomwaterford wrote: »

Or they can win people about to their way of thinking like politics normally work the world over?

I guess it depends how you look at it.

Is it the pull of the politician on society or the push of society on the politician.

Do they spend a long time winning people over to their way of thinking (remember people may not want to go) or do they move the party policy to something more attractive to voters even though some members may scream betrayal.


I bet there are lots of hungry young SF TDs and hopeful TDs looking at the independent alliance with ministerial offices and thinking "that could be us".

Berserker

Jawgap wrote: »

It seems everyone wants to let bygones be bygones. Fair enough, it's a reasonable position to hold.

However, my own view is that's SF want everyone else to forget but they want to retain the right to selectively remember and apply history.

As you said, they want people to forgot about the countless lives they destroyed. People who dig up the likes of bloody sunday and use it as an excuse to behave like brats are fine though.

Jawgap wrote: »

Frankly, I think GA's legacy will ultimately be defined in terms of failure. Brexit is likely to be the great defining issue of European politics for the next 2 decades, and the fact will always remain that when presented with a singular opportunity to moderate Brexit, and even derail the Tories, GA and SF opted to be bound by history and remain wedded to the anachronistic policy of abstentionism.

He'll disappear into nothingness once he moves on, just like that SF big wig from NI who died a while back; can't remember his name. I see that SF managed to take some of the media spotlight off Leo this morning, so this stunt has worked. I have no liking for Leo and FG but he is far too clever for SF and Adams. That article from the Sun must have really hurt them.

FrancieBrady

Berserker wrote: »

As you said, they want people to forgot about the countless lives they destroyed. People who dig up the likes of bloody sunday and use it as an excuse to behave like brats are fine though.



He'll disappear into nothingness once he moves on, just like that SF big wig from NI who died in a while back; can't remember his name. I see that SF managed to take some of the media spotlight of Leo this morning, so this stunt has worked. I have no liking for Leo and FG but he is far too clever for SF and Adams. That article from the Sun must have really hurt them.

All politicians fade away.
Adams is going on his own terms, a matter of intense irritation to some it seems.

Martin McGuinness was the name you were looking for...not. :rolleyes:

flazio

I agree that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness have done much for peace, as has Ian Paisley, David Trimble, and the UK labour party of the late 90s early 00s.
Where I believe Sinn Fein fail is in the delivery of justice for victims on both sides.

Berserker

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All politicians fade away.
Adams is going on his own terms, a matter of intense irritation to some it seems.

Martin McGuinness was the name you were looking for...not. :rolleyes:

Cheers for the name. Couldn't think of it. Sunday head on me. If he does leave and I don't think he will, as I've said, who do you think will take over from him? Also, how will that leave SF as an all island party? Like him or not, he's the glue that keeps them together. I know SF voters in NI and they don't know the leading SF politicians down here.

MadYaker

tomwaterford wrote: »

Are we to expect all those who all along found adams objective to suddenly flock to sinn fein??


Il not hold my breath on that ....if anything SF will do well to hold what they have at the next election


As far as I can see at every election under adams...they have increased there vote??

Is this not the ultimate test of a politican

Why do you think nobody ever challenged his leadership?

FrancieBrady

Berserker wrote: »

Cheers for the name. Couldn't think of it. Sunday head on me. If he does leave and I don't think he will, as I've said, who do you think will take over from him? Also, how will that leave SF as an all island party? Like him or not, he's the glue that keeps them together. I know SF voters in NI and they don't know the leading SF politicians down here.

There isn't much point in discussing it with you tbh in light of that.

I know plenty of people who forget their neighbours names too. It is not indicative of anything other than their awareness of the world in general.
I am sure there are plenty who would find it hard to name more than a few FG or FF politicians.

Jawgap

tomwaterford wrote: »

Hardly irelands job to save the British from. There own stupidity?

I would've taught he's have wanted a brexit out of ireland aswel?

If it was only going to impact the UK (or rather just GB), then fair enough, he'd have been more then justified just letting them get on with making the bed they were going to have to lie in. But this very directly and very significantly impacts both jurisdictions on this island, and it was well within SF's power to stymie it or extract the best possible (or least worst) outcome for the island.

They chose not to because of they're wedded to abstentionism - they chose dogma over people, imo.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's clear you don't see it as moral. But the fact is that there were those who saw it as the only moral choice.
You will always have those who oppose war. Which is a legitimate stance.
However the war is over and for 20 years this politician has not been at war, he has been building the peace. |
What is your moral stance on what he contributed to that btw?

Martin McGuinness I a person whom I would respect but GA to me seems to be fake.