Varadkar told to "shut his gob" by the UK Sun

J Mysterio

end of the road wrote: »

well maybe the british government should fund it's border force properly and enforce the immigration laws it has.
and the people of britain start taking responsibility for their country and it's governance and start blaming the right people for it's issues, the politicians they elect. the british people are responsible for how britain is, not the EU.

Well said. Further, a lot of the immigrants to the UK are non EU nationals who had a right to go due to British colonialism.

Ewan Hoosarmi

I read the posts by the loyalists on this thread and they strike a note with me. ALP is telling us that we don't understand the mindset of the loyalist community.

Much as it pains me to agree with anything a loyalist has to say, he is right. Many people south of the border would be unable to understand the thinking of northern loyalists. Their views are so bitter and twisted that rational minds have trouble understanding their views. They would gladly sacrifice anything, including their own children, to be able to wave a bit of cloth on a stick. There is no reasoning with this mentality and it has blighted the 6 counties for centuries.

FrancieBrady

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

I read the posts by the loyalists on this thread and they strike a note with me. ALP is telling us that we don't understand the mindset of the loyalist community.

Much as it pains me to agree with anything a loyalist has to say, he is right. Many people south of the border would be unable to understand the thinking of northern loyalists. Their views are so bitter and twisted that rational minds have trouble understanding their views. They would gladly sacrifice anything, including their own children, to be able to wave a bit of cloth on a stick. There is no reasoning with this mentality and it has blighted the 6 counties for centuries.

The rational evidence though suggests that even the most hardline loyalist would not sacrifice 'everything'.
Yes, they will shout Never Never Never and kick up a fuss in their own areas but eventually they accept what is right and normal and get on with it.

Look at the fleg dispute,parades, the Anglo Irish Agreement, the GFA etc. for examples.

Avatar MIA

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

I read the posts by the loyalists on this thread and they strike a note with me. ALP is telling us that we don't understand the mindset of the loyalist community.

Much as it pains me to agree with anything a loyalist has to say, he is right. Many people south of the border would be unable to understand the thinking of northern loyalists. Their views are so bitter and twisted that rational minds have trouble understanding their views. They would gladly sacrifice anything, including their own children, to be able to wave a bit of cloth on a stick. There is no reasoning with this mentality and it has blighted the 6 counties for centuries.

It's central to what defines them. They have largely been left behind by their government(s) and so they cling to the monarchy (as long as they are not Catholic) because basically they have sweet fúck all else going for them. They are basking in former glories when their side beat the Catholics (1690), being gleeful cannon fodder in WW1 (of which a German "British" aristocracy were most, most grateful) and other aspects of empire which satisfies some reflected self importance.

Their tradition was to work (because it was given to them) rather than get an education (which was what a lot of the Nationalists resorted to) and are living in the wrong century.

AND (to be fair) they lived in a time where the IRA would target their side (I'm ignoring loyalist violence, because it's largely irrelevant in this context) and gave them something to rally around.

They have far more in common with the working class of inner city Dublin than they do with any castle dweller.

A Little Pony

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

I read the posts by the loyalists on this thread and they strike a note with me. ALP is telling us that we don't understand the mindset of the loyalist community.

Much as it pains me to agree with anything a loyalist has to say, he is right. Many people south of the border would be unable to understand the thinking of northern loyalists. Their views are so bitter and twisted that rational minds have trouble understanding their views. They would gladly sacrifice anything, including their own children, to be able to wave a bit of cloth on a stick. There is no reasoning with this mentality and it has blighted the 6 counties for centuries.

My post was explaining the mentality of nationalism here than anything about violence, I think we all need to reject violence. Nationalism is a different breed in NI than most places in Europe that it weighs heavier in the consciousnesses than economics.

But I can make arguments economically for the Union but also ask serious questions about Irish unity and the economics of it, the health service, taxes, social security and so on. But I do think if we go into detail on this on this thread it would just take it way off topic as it's about Leo and a Sun article.

Avatar MIA

A Little Pony wrote: »

But I can make arguments economically for the Union but also ask serious questions about Irish unity and the economics of it, the health service, taxes, social security and so on. But I do think if we go into detail on this on this thread it would just take it way off topic as it's about Leo and a Sun article.

You might start a thread on it, because there's a lot of conventional wisdom to be tackled. For example the NHS and Tax. For example, when looking at tax, it's best to look at relative disposable income.

alchemist33

As I heard predicted on the radio yesterday, the article has been ignored by most but sets the tone for people whose mindset is more closely aligned with the Sun. Arlene Foster has now spoken about Leo as if she's his headmistress, and Ireland hasn't a say on the issue.

Odhinn

alchemist33 wrote: »

As I heard predicted on the radio yesterday, the article has been ignored by most but sets the tone for people whose mindset is more closely aligned with the Sun. Arlene Foster has now spoken about Leo as if she's his headmistress, and Ireland hasn't a say on the issue.

Anyone playing hands across the border with arlene is only going to lose a hand tbh.

FrancieBrady

Somebody should ask Arlene and Nigel 'is that all you have got?'

We have the backing of 27 EU states and a veto, they have a fragile and temporary hold on a Tory party in internal chaos.

Odhinn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Somebody should ask Arlene and Nigel 'is that all you have got?'

We have the backing of 27 EU states and a veto, they have a fragile and temporary hold on a Tory party in internal chaos.

It's the most I can ever remember the DUP having, tbh.

munsterlegend

alchemist33 wrote: »

As I heard predicted on the radio yesterday, the article has been ignored by most but sets the tone for people whose mindset is more closely aligned with the Sun. Arlene Foster has now spoken about Leo as if she's his headmistress, and Ireland hasn't a say on the issue.

Foster as ever has nothing constructive to offer and is playing to her electorate mindset on Dublin interference. As Barnier said yesterday the north is not like the rest of the uk and a different solution will have to be found. Johnson has no interest in anything to do with Ireland so a border along the Irish Sea is what will happen and London values her relationship with Dublin far more than unionist concerns.

Ewan Hoosarmi

Snickers Man wrote: »

Nothing that a bit of investment in a high-speed rail link to Rosslare from Dublin and Limerick and a few high-speed high-capacity ferries on the Rosslare-Le Havre route won't fix.

Think outside box.

Just on this point. Are the UK going full ballistic isolationist and doing away with the TIR convention as well? That's an international thing, not just EU.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

The demographics argument is nonsense. It's been used for ages with absolutely no results. I wouldn't take much heed of this argument at all.



Again using the religious aspect shows nothing as society is getting less religious, I didn't put down Protestant in the 2011 census, I put down Jedi. You say moderate Unionists as if the large bulk of majority who believe in staying with the rest of the UK aren't moderate and you only have this small enclave of "moderates". 

I'm sure you did put down Jedi but you repeatedly self identify quite strongly with Protestantism and Protestantism alone on this site. 41% of people 6 years ago felt strongly enough that the put down Catholic on the census. It's ridiculous to say you can't associate religion with unionism/nationalism, you and Tim do it constantly on this site.

At most you could consider them neutral regarding nationalism/unionism, but you can bet they won't have an ideological objection to unification. If they're significantly poorer, which is something you want, then they won't tolerate that for much longer.

steddyeddy

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

I read the posts by the loyalists on this thread and they strike a note with me. ALP is telling us that we don't understand the mindset of the loyalist community.

Much as it pains me to agree with anything a loyalist has to say, he is right. Many people south of the border would be unable to understand the thinking of northern loyalists. Their views are so bitter and twisted that rational minds have trouble understanding their views. They would gladly sacrifice anything, including their own children, to be able to wave a bit of cloth on a stick. There is no reasoning with this mentality and it has blighted the 6 counties for centuries.

I agree completely . I think partition has given them a sense of entitlement. Threaten violence and everything will work out in the end. Their focus on sectarianism has held them back economically for decades. The problem is that Brexit, that they wanted won't just hold them back, it will make all of Northern Ireland consistently worse off. That won't be tolerated.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The demographics argument is nonsense. It's been used for ages with absolutely no results. I wouldn't take much heed of this argument at all.



Again using the religious aspect shows nothing as society is getting less religious, I didn't put down Protestant in the 2011 census, I put down Jedi. You say moderate Unionists as if the large bulk of majority who believe in staying with the rest of the UK aren't moderate and you only have this small enclave of "moderates". 

I'm sure you did put down Jedi but you repeatedly self identify quite strongly with Protestantism and Protestantism alone on this site. 41% of people 6 years ago felt strongly enough that the put down Catholic on the census. It's ridiculous to say you can't associate religion with unionism/Catholicism, you and Tim do it constantly on this site.

At most you could consider them neutral regarding nationalism/unionism, but you can bet they won't have an ideological objection to unification. If they're significantly poorer, which is something you want, then they won't tolerate that for much longer.

Fake news, most certainly not. I have always said I'm not religious. A large branch off of Unionism is nationalism, it's just not Irish nationalism.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

I read the posts by the loyalists on this thread and they strike a note with me. ALP is telling us that we don't understand the mindset of the loyalist community.

Much as it pains me to agree with anything a loyalist has to say, he is right. Many people south of the border would be unable to understand the thinking of northern loyalists. Their views are so bitter and twisted that rational minds have trouble understanding their views. They would gladly sacrifice anything, including their own children, to be able to wave a bit of cloth on a stick. There is no reasoning with this mentality and it has blighted the 6 counties for centuries.

I agree completely . I think partition has given them a sense of entitlement. Threaten violence and everything will work out in the end. Their focus on sectarianism has held them back economically for decades. The problem is that Brexit, that they wanted won't just hold them back, it will make all of Northern Ireland consistently worse off. That won't be tolerated.

You haven't told us what you want to happen as far as the EU is concerned. It seems like a waste of energy complaining about something that is already underway, do you just expect a reverse on the vote?

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Fake news, most certainly not. I have always said I'm not religious. A large branch off of Unionism is nationalism, it's just not Irish nationalism.

Just to be clear Protestants have nothing to do with unionism? You previously said the IRA liked attack Protestants. You really meant they liked attack loyalists didn't you?

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Fake news, most certainly not. I have always said I'm not religious. A large branch off of Unionism is nationalism, it's just not Irish nationalism.

Just to be clear Protestants have nothing to do with unionism? You previously said the IRA liked attack Protestants. You really meant they liked attack loyalists didn't you?

They attacked all aspects of people from the Orange cultural background. That includes religion.

J Mysterio

alchemist33 wrote: »

As I heard predicted on the radio yesterday, the article has been ignored by most but sets the tone for people whose mindset is more closely aligned with the Sun. Arlene Foster has now spoken about Leo as if she's his headmistress, and Ireland hasn't a say on the issue.

Surely she has to agree with what Leo is saying RE: the border... we can have no hard border. What is she on about at all?

Also, thought this was humourous given the context:

Some people are taking their moment in the sun

FrancieBrady

J Mysterio wrote: »

Surely she has to agree with what Leo is saying RE: the border... we can have no hard border. What is she on about at all?

Also, thought this was humourous given the context:

Some people are taking their moment in the sun

Arlene is doing the stock DUP dance when they know they are backed into a corner. Attack Dublin or SF.

Pure siege politics. She cannot even remotely formulate a defence of the northern Ireland Leave stance and so plays to her base.

Odhinn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Arlene is doing the stock DUP dance when they know they are backed into a corner. Attack Dublin or SF.

Pure siege politics. She cannot even remotely formulate a defence of the northern Ireland Leave stance and so plays to her base.

....she's a "No!!!" sort of gal.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

You haven't told us what you want to happen as far as the EU is concerned. It seems like a waste of energy complaining about something that is already underway, do you just expect a reverse on the vote?

Well I don't know you but at the same time I wouldn't wish a hard Brexit on anyone. A report on a hard Brexit indicates that the UK would lose 400 billion from their economy in the next 10 years.

I'm not complaining about the vote. I'm just mystified why a unionist would vote for something that would considerably weaken the UK.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

They attacked all aspects of people from the Orange cultural background. That includes religion.

But there's no correlation between unionism and Protestantism. Great that should confuse some of the loyalist posters on here. I'll remember that next time they confuse unionism with being Protestant.

J Mysterio

How she is a leader of any group at all is remarkable. What a horrible, intransigent, ignorant woman.

McGuiness spent years trying to build bridges and work with the Unionists. Himself and Paisley eventually becoming friends even!

Didnt take long for ol' Arlene to sour all that progress. She should have resigned following Cash for Ash. To think that the DUP are now propoing up the UK government! Really, the Tories are the most miserable collective of cretins to ever form a cabinet. Destroying the country while all trying to stab the other in the back (Gove stabs Boris, Boris stabs May, Davis stabs May). Resignations, firings and scandals everywhere.

Whats even more amazing is the DUP are more actively engaged in politics in Westminster than Stormont. She is not representing the people of Northern Ireland, people who voted remain by a greater margin than that in the vote which triggered Brexit, I understand.

It's a disgrace.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

You haven't told us what you want to happen as far as the EU is concerned. It seems like a waste of energy complaining about something that is already underway, do you just expect a reverse on the vote?

Well I don't know you but at the same time I wouldn't wish a hard Brexit on anyone. A report on a hard Brexit indicates that the UK would lose 400 billion from their economy in the next 10 years.

I'm not complaining about the vote. I'm just mystified why a unionist would vote for something that would considerably weaken the UK.

So no offering of a solution from someone who disagrees with Brexit, so just what is the point? It's going to happen anyway, even if you think it's a disaster and you are entitled to think that, it's unlikely to be stopped now. 

J Mysterio wrote: »

How she is a leader of any group at all is remarkable. What a horrible, intransigent, ignorant woman.

McGuiness spent years trying to build bridges and work with the Unionists. Himself and Paisley eventually becoming friends even!

Didnt take long for ol' Arlene to sour all that progress. She should have resigned following Cash for Ash. To think that the DUP are now propoing up the UK government! Really, the Tories are the most miserable collective of cretins to ever form a cabinet. Destroying the country while all trying to stab the other in the back (Gove stabs Boris, Boris stabs May, Davis stabs May). Resignations, firings and scandals everywhere.

Whats even more amazing is the DUP are more actively engaged in politics in Westminster than Stormont. She is not representing the people of Northern Ireland, people who voted remain by a greater margin than that in the vote which triggered Brexit, I understand.

It's a disgrace.

A few issues with this post, firstly the idea that Arlene Foster soured the relations between Sinn Fein and the DUP when that is nonsense, they have never liked each other. Peter Robinson replaced Ian Paisley as he was ousted from the party in what amounted to a coup. The relationship was never that good between Mcguinness and Robinson and when Arlene Foster replaced him, it wasn't that much worse. 

Secondly of course the DUP are more focused on Westminster because the Assembly doesn't exist and they have a big mandate to represent the voters at Westminster. Local governing politics in NI is "dead" now and might have to wait a while to see if it ever get's resuscitated.

FrancieBrady

Typical Brexiteer nonsense.

They vote to Brexit and then look to others to offer a solution to the many messes they have made.

You couldn't invent this stuff.

RustyNut

A Little Pony wrote: »

So no offering of a solution from someone who disagrees with Brexit, so just what is the point? It's going to happen anyway, even if you think it's a disaster and you are entitled to think that, it's unlikely to be stopped now. 

A united Ireland could be one solution.

Odhinn

A Little Pony wrote: »

A few issues with this post, firstly the idea that Arlene Foster soured the relations between Sinn Fein and the DUP when that is nonsense, they have never liked each other. Peter Robinson replaced Ian Paisley as he was ousted from the party in what amounted to a coup. The relationship was never that good between Mcguinness and Robinson and when Arlene Foster replaced him, it wasn't that much worse. 

.

According to the vast majority of observers it became considerably worse, because Foster is old school hardliner who believes "Not an Inch" is too liberal a stance.

FrancieBrady

Odhinn wrote: »

According to the vast majority of observers it became considerably worse, because Foster is old school hardliner who believes "Not an Inch" is too liberal a stance.

Of course it did, you only had to have ears and eyes in your head to witness it. Arlene thinks it's the 50's

Junkyard Tom

A Little Pony wrote: »

They attacked all aspects of people from the Orange cultural background. That includes religion.

The demographic least likely to be killed or injured during the troubles was Protestant Civilian.

end of the road

A Little Pony wrote: »

So no offering of a solution from someone who disagrees with Brexit, so just what is the point? It's going to happen anyway, even if you think it's a disaster and you are entitled to think that, it's unlikely to be stopped now.



A few issues with this post, firstly the idea that Arlene Foster soured the relations between Sinn Fein and the DUP when that is nonsense, they have never liked each other. Peter Robinson replaced Ian Paisley as he was ousted from the party in what amounted to a coup. The relationship was never that good between Mcguinness and Robinson and when Arlene Foster replaced him, it wasn't that much worse.

Secondly of course the DUP are more focused on Westminster because the Assembly doesn't exist and they have a big mandate to represent the voters at Westminster. Local governing politics in NI is "dead" now and might have to wait a while to see if it ever get's resuscitated.

the reason the NI power sharing agreement fell through was all down to Arlene Foster.

Snickers Man

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course it did, you only had to have ears and eyes in your head to witness it. Arlene thinks it's the 50's

To quote the great Jake O'Kane: "Haircut from the 1960s; brain from the 1690s"

(OK he didn't say it about her but it works anyway )

Ewan Hoosarmi

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The demographic least likely to be killed or injured during the troubles was Protestant Civilian.

Tag 'arrested' onto that too,

munsterlegend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course it did, you only had to have ears and eyes in your head to witness it. Arlene thinks it's the 50's

The problem with Foster is that she feels she has to prove herself as she is not from the usual unionist leader orange order tradition. This means attack venomously anything with a hint of green, Sinn Fein and of course Dublin. Robinson despite his past was even much more tactful in his language and understood his role of trying to reach out to the nationalist community. Foster is clueless and of course incompetent as per ash for cash.

Agricola

Jaysus, some tripe coming out of Arlene's gob. You'd wonder what planet she inhabits, because it doesn't appear to this one. She actually believes the chief concern for Brussels is using NI as a bargaining chip to hammer the UK in the Brexit deal and for southern politicians it's just keeping the free trade open with NI! No Arlene, a lot of quite like not giving lunatics an excuse to turn a corner of the island into a warzone again actually.

As someone else said, she has nothing to offer. So her only option is to throw a few shapes and gee up her own crew. Pathetic stuff.

Junkyard Tom

What's the point in reaching out when the person you're reaching out to has their arms folded and their back to you?

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

Nothing that a bit of investment in a high-speed rail link to Rosslare from Dublin and Limerick and a few high-speed high-capacity ferries on the Rosslare-Le Havre route won't fix.

Think outside box.

We’ll be beaming goods to Europe before we get high speed rail

A Little Pony

Agricola wrote: »

Jaysus, some tripe coming out of Arlene's gob. You'd wonder what planet she inhabits, because it doesn't appear to this one. She actually believes the chief concern for Brussels is using NI as a bargaining chip to hammer the UK in the Brexit deal and for southern politicians it's just keeping the free trade open with NI! No Arlene, a lot of quite like not giving lunatics an excuse to turn a corner of the island into a warzone again actually.

As someone else said, she has nothing to offer. So her only option is to throw a few shapes and gee up her own crew. Pathetic stuff.

Like who? The IRA is now gone.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

Like who? The IRA is now gone.

I don't think it will be a warzone, but you have a majority of people in NI pulled out of the EU against their will. I can't see how that will sit well.

A Little Pony

Odhinn wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

A few issues with this post, firstly the idea that Arlene Foster soured the relations between Sinn Fein and the DUP when that is nonsense, they have never liked each other. Peter Robinson replaced Ian Paisley as he was ousted from the party in what amounted to a coup. The relationship was never that good between Mcguinness and Robinson and when Arlene Foster replaced him, it wasn't that much worse. 

.

According to the vast majority of observers it became considerably worse, because Foster is old school hardliner who believes "Not an Inch" is too liberal a stance.

That isn't exactly the truth, the problem is the political system does not work. Parties which hate each other anyway isn't ever going to work when they are forced together after every election, the electorate can't move away from the DUP or SF. It's hardly surprising relations got worse as time went on, it was 8+ years.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Typical Brexiteer nonsense.

They vote to Brexit and then look to others to offer a solution to the many messes they have made.

You couldn't invent this stuff.

I don't, I support Brexit, the ones against it complain about it but won't say what they want to happen.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

Like who? The IRA is now gone.

I don't think it will be a warzone, but you have a majority of people in NI pulled out of the EU against their will. I can't see how that will sit well.

No one is going to die because of a customs arrangement, certainly not from Irish Republicans who have a healthy skepticism of the EU at the best of times, as do I.

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

No one is going to die because of a customs arrangement, certainly not from Irish Republicans who have a healthy skepticism of the EU at the best of times, as do I.

You're confused. It's the majority of the North that voted remain. So the majority of the North are Irish republicans?

steddyeddy

The principle of the Good Friday agreement is "parity of esteem". I.E both sides have to be treated with respect. The unionist view that NI is part of the UK should be respected and the nationalist view that the North should be Irish should be respected.

However this message didn't filter down to unionists like Arelene and Teresa May. To them and their kin, nationalists and Irish have no place in the North of Ireland. They're seeing it as if it was still a plantation.

Christopher Hitchens said the worst things about Northern Ireland was the fact that unionists considered Irish as foreign to Northern Ireland as Spanish is to Ireland. Unfortunately the British often pandered to this belief.

The EU is actually part of the Good Friday agreement legislation. They've actually been the ones who have honored this. The UK and Theresa May don't give a monkey's about the effect Brexit has on Northern Ireland, but the EU do and they're being fantastic in respecting the wishes of the Irish on the island. This is why this is such a shock to the UK. They never considered the views of the Irish in the North.

munsterlegend

steddyeddy wrote: »

The principle of this agreement is "parity of esteem". I.E both sides have to be treated with respect. The unionist view that NI is part of the UK should be respected and the nationalist view that the North should be Irish should be respected.

However this message didn't filter down to unionists like Arelene and Teresa May. To them and their kin, nationalists and Irish have no place in the North of Ireland. They're seeing it as if it was still a plantation.

Christopher Hitchens said the worst things about Northern Ireland was the fact that unionists considered Irish as foreign to Northern Ireland as Spanish is to Ireland. Unforatunately the British often pandered to this belief.

The EU is actually part of the Good Friday agreement legislation. They've actually been the ones who have honored this. The UK and Theresa May don't give a monkey's about the effect Brexit has on Northern Ireland, but the EU do and they're being fantastic in respecting the wishes of the Irish on the island. This is why this is such a shock to the UK. They never considered the views of the Irish in the North.

Sammy Wilson once referred that the notion of celebrating the Easter rising anniversary up north would be like celebrating Bastille day in France or the 4th of July. Unionism only ever wanted superiority and now it's all crashing down around them.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

No one is going to die because of a customs arrangement, certainly not from Irish Republicans who have a healthy skepticism of the EU at the best of times, as do I.

You're confused. It's the majority of the North that voted remain. So the majority of the North are Irish republicans?

The dog whistle from some is claiming that violence will happen from a Republican group. Do I see any major Unionist groups kicking up a big fuss about this? Not really, maybe they should arrange meetings to talk about it and express themselves if they do. Maybe I could be convinced on some arrangements IF enough in the Unionist community make it known that is what they want. 

I think it's important when discussing Brexit here that you can make the futuristic opinion that it might not be great, some people might not like it to start with but I think it's a big leap for anyone to whisper that violence will break out. A hard border does not change the position of the GFA as far as consent of the people is concerned.

steddyeddy

munsterlegend wrote: »

Sammy Wilson once referred that the notion of celebrating the Easter rising anniversary up north would be like celebrating Bastille day in France or the 4th of July. Unionism only ever wanted superiority and now it's all crashing down around them.

Yes I seen that. He said Ireland was a foreign country and Irish history is foreign to Ireland. These people get by by being in complete denial about the reality. "Sure what would we be speaking Irish in Ireland for"? ect ect.

Jim Allister says the same thing in this clip. The Easter rising is foreign ect ect. Then David McWilliams of all people says:

"You already celebrate something that happens in a foriegn country. Called the battle of the Boyne". Que Jim and Sammy look a bit thick.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vQKTc2uNk4

steddyeddy

A Little Pony wrote: »

The dog whistle from some is claiming that violence will happen from a Republican group. Do I see any major Unionist groups kicking up a big fuss about this? Not really, maybe they should arrange meetings to talk about it and express themselves if they do. Maybe I could be convinced on some arrangements IF enough in the Unionist community make it known that is what they want. 

I think it's important when discussing Brexit here that you can make the futuristic opinion that it might not be great, some people might not like it to start with but I think it's a big leap for anyone to whisper that violence will break out. A hard border does not change the position of the GFA as far as consent of the people is concerned.

No ALP, the majority do not like it hence they voted the other way. I don't think violence will break out yet. I do think people will vote to go back in the EU if things get worse.

J Mysterio

A Little Pony wrote: »

I support Brexit, the ones against it complain about it but won't say what they want to happen.

:pac::pac::pac:

This says a lot.

Firstly, it's clear intelectual dishonesty. Secondly, I am sure you will stick by this point at all costs, and justify it. Ridiculous.

A Little Pony

steddyeddy wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The dog whistle from some is claiming that violence will happen from a Republican group. Do I see any major Unionist groups kicking up a big fuss about this? Not really, maybe they should arrange meetings to talk about it and express themselves if they do. Maybe I could be convinced on some arrangements IF enough in the Unionist community make it known that is what they want. 

I think it's important when discussing Brexit here that you can make the futuristic opinion that it might not be great, some people might not like it to start with but I think it's a big leap for anyone to whisper that violence will break out. A hard border does not change the position of the GFA as far as consent of the people is concerned.

No ALP, the majority do not like it hence they voted the other way. I don't think violence will break out yet. I do think people will vote to go back in the EU if things get worse.

Hilarious how some people can possibly think the passion and drive exists to such a degree over the EU to start being violent.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

The principle of the Good Friday agreement is "parity of esteem". I.E both sides have to be treated with respect. The unionist view that NI is part of the UK should be respected and the nationalist view that the North should be Irish should be respected.

However this message didn't filter down to unionists like Arelene and Teresa May. To them and their kin, nationalists and Irish have no place in the North of Ireland. They're seeing it as if it was still a plantation.

Christopher Hitchens said the worst things about Northern Ireland was the fact that unionists considered Irish as foreign to Northern Ireland as Spanish is to Ireland. Unfortunately the British often pandered to this belief.

The EU is actually part of the Good Friday agreement legislation. They've actually been the ones who have honored this. The UK and Theresa May don't give a monkey's about the effect Brexit has on Northern Ireland, but the EU do and they're being fantastic in respecting the wishes of the Irish on the island. This is why this is such a shock to the UK. They never considered the views of the Irish in the North.

The concern for the GFA in Dublin and the rest of the EU will rescue the DUP from themselves.
Dublin will use the veto and it is sinking in in London. They will go back to the drawing board soon.
Upping the money is a sure sign that they are floundering and looking ways out. They will get more desperate as we move closer to deadline.

Pointing at heady prosperous Rule Britannia days in 20 or 30 years will not cut it anymore.