Secondary teacher shortages with regard to History and English

RoversRudie

Hi all,

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/over-3-000-unqualified-teachers-employed-to-plug-gaps-in-schools-1.3294877?mode=amp

Having come across articles like this lately, I've been wondering whether or not it might be worth applying for the Secondary PME.

I did a BA in History and English with a view to teaching those two subjects but decided to turn down a place on the PME a couple of years ago after being strongly advised both were hugely oversubscribed.

Does anyone know if the situation has changed at all or is the shortage of qualified staff merely confined to subjects like Maths, Science etc. where posts were always more difficult to fill anyway?

All feedback is much appreciated.

RR

spurious

Oh you will get hours, there is no end of hours, and schools (particularly in Dublin) are crying out for subs, but when it comes to an actual contract for more than about 14 hours, don't hold your breath.

We have allowed develop a casualised 'profession' with people scrabbling about for years on short contracts, often four or five in the same subject in the same school, which could have made two or more 'proper' jobs if the will was there, but while you can play people off one against the other and have them killing themselves to try and be seen as co-operative (so that they 'might' get a CID), why would school management bother?

If you have a job elsewhere, I'd stick with it. That's before you mention the stupid cost of the PME. It was STEM subjects, then Irish, now even the subjects taken by everyone have a shortage of teachers. No doubt those outside the system will wonder why.

Terri26

If you have freedom to take a break from work you could apply to schools looking for history or English teachers. According to papers schools are so stuck they are taking unqualified people. Obviously not ideal but better than no teachers if you determined to work hard.

mtoutlemonde

Terri26 wrote: »

If you have freedom to take a break from work you could apply to schools looking for history or English teachers. According to papers schools are so stuck they are taking unqualified people. Obviously not ideal but better than no teachers if you determined to work hard.

Not 100% accurate. In order to work in any school - you have to be Garda Vetted by the Teaching Council and the Teaching Council won't vett without registration. I can't see a principal taking in an unqualified, unvetted person to cover for a teacher - opening themselves to a whole load of trouble if it's found out.

Now there is an option where an unqualified can work for a max of four days but I think this would be for a secondary teacher working in primary or vice versa or a secondary teacher not registered with a subject.

OP I don't know what to advise you. There may be a shortage at the moment but there will always be an abundance of English/Teachers. Consider the cost - €12,000 for a course that will return part time work for a few years if you're lucky. I can see the dip going back to a year programme to help aid this shortage.

Terri26

mtoutlemonde wrote:

Not 100% accurate. In order to work in any school - you have to be Garda Vetted by the Teaching Council and the Teaching Council won't vett without registration. I can't see a principal taking in an unqualified, unvetted person to cover for a teacher - opening themselves to a whole load of trouble if it's found out.

You can register with the Teaching Council when you have a degree, I think as FE. Also in a few schools in our area students doing their teacher training are covering classes and being paid on the unqualified rate. My cousin is in her third year of a concurrent teaching qualification and has gotten substitute classes and got paid for them.

r93kaey5p2izun

There seems to some demand for English subs in the Dublin area. I haven't heard of anything in the way of actual English positions available but subbing, yes. History is still as oversubscribed as ever. Everyone seems to have it as a second subject so no shortage of people on hand to cover if necessary. Take a look at educationposts.ie and see what's advertised maybe.

r93kaey5p2izun

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

Not 100% accurate. In order to work in any school - you have to be Garda Vetted by the Teaching Council and the Teaching Council won't vett without registration. I can't see a principal taking in an unqualified, unvetted person to cover for a teacher - opening themselves to a whole load of trouble if it's found out.

Now there is an option where an unqualified can work for a max of four days but I think this would be for a secondary teacher working in primary or vice versa or a secondary teacher not registered with a subject.

But schools are hiring unregistered and unqualified people. I don't know how they're dealing with the vetting issue. Most of them are trainee teachers who have vetting for college but not all. That 5 day rule only applies to unregistered people. There is no limit on working in the wrong sector once registered for any sector, you just receive the unqualified rate.

mtoutlemonde

Zackary Black Racism wrote: »

But schools are hiring unregistered and unqualified people. I don't know how they're dealing with the vetting issue. Most of them are trainee teachers who have vetting for college but not all. That 5 day rule only applies to unregistered people. There is no limit on working in the wrong sector once registered for any sector, you just receive the unqualified rate.

I really thought that loophole had been closed but I see more and more people here registering under FE - the Teaching Council are not following through - surprise surprise. I understood that to register under FE that you had to be delivering some form of programme within an ETB and needed registration for payment.

Maybe it's just the schools I've been in most any dips that I've had contact with have not been given any subbing other than unpaid/school paid (unlikely but I have seem it).

Education in this country is going from a good one to a rather poor one with unqualified people getting access to our students without formal training. New programmes being introduced that no-one knows about either trainers, teachers, the SEC and god forbid anyone would think of the kids. I have apologised on several times to my first years a few times when I teach something and say it will be on your exam and then say I don't know when they ask me what their exam will be like. An education minister who knows absolutely damn all about education/teaching when he decides to introduce a springboard course for people at home to train as teachers. A minister who feels its fair to have divide between older and younger teachers. I could go one but I know Zackary Black Racism that you are planning on leaving education, I would leave in the morning and get my permanent job in another sector but I just love teaching so much that I would miss it terribly.

Icsics

I wouldn't advise anyone to go into secondary teaching. Apart from the lower salary scale & steady decline in conditions, History will be an optional subject in the new JCT & English is difficult to get good hours with

r93kaey5p2izun

mtoutlemonde wrote: »

I really thought that loophole had been closed but I see more and more people here registering under FE - the Teaching Council are not following through - surprise surprise. I understood that to register under FE that you had to be delivering some form of programme within an ETB and needed registration for payment.

Maybe it's just the schools I've been in most any dips that I've had contact with have not been given any subbing other than unpaid/school paid (unlikely but I have seem it).

Education in this country is going from a good one to a rather poor one with unqualified people getting access to our students without formal training. New programmes being introduced that no-one knows about either trainers, teachers, the SEC and god forbid anyone would think of the kids. I have apologised on several times to my first years a few times when I teach something and say it will be on your exam and then say I don't know when they ask me what their exam will be like. An education minister who knows absolutely damn all about education/teaching when he decides to introduce a springboard course for people at home to train as teachers. A minister who feels its fair to have divide between older and younger teachers. I could go one but I know Arlessienne that you are planning on leaving education, I would leave in the morning and get my permanent job in another sector but I just love teaching so much that I would miss it terribly.

No the loophole is still there. You can still register for FE, you can teach in a different sector once registered and you can teach with no registration at all for 5 consecutive days. My school is using PME and concurrent degree students to cover subbing this year. The PME students are FE registered and the concurrent students have no registration. They have always used our FE teachers who teach QQI modules. I think things are tighter in terms of hiring for an advertised position (contract longer than 26 weeks) though.

I agree with everything you say about where our system is headed though and like lcsics I also could not recommend teaching. I will miss teaching - I love being in the classroom - but I can't afford to stay while living in Dublin and unfortunately I am tied to Dublin for the foreseeable. My school is also a depressing place to work.

mtoutlemonde

Zackary Black Racism wrote: »

No the loophole is still there. You can still register for FE, you can teach in a different sector once registered and you can teach with no registration at all for 5 consecutive days. My school is using PME and concurrent degree students to cover subbing this year. The PME students are FE registered and the concurrent students have no registration. They have always used our FE teachers who teach QQI modules. I think things are tighter in terms of hiring for an advertised position (contract longer than 26 weeks) though.

I agree with everything you say about where our system is headed though and like lcsics I also could not recommend teaching. I will miss teaching - I love being in the classroom - but I can't afford to stay while living in Dublin and unfortunately I am tied to Dublin for the foreseeable. My school is also a depressing place to work.

So essentially the situation is the same as when I started - once you had a degree you can sub but finding sustainable work will be difficult.

Yes your place of work can have an impact on your mental health - I was in a place last year that was extremely toxic - didn't notice how much until I left and started elsewhere.

deiseindublin

Zackary Black Racism wrote: »

I will miss teaching - I love being in the classroom - but I can't afford to stay while living in Dublin and unfortunately I am tied to Dublin for the foreseeable. My school is also a depressing place to work.

I didn't realise you were bailing out Zackary Black Racism. Seems to be becoming more and more commonplace.

Dickie10

its a job that only will suit some people like part timers doing subbing here and there who can pick and choose, pretty much every one of these people will have to have a second income. pay 12k to work part time job albiet better paid than most part time jobs. thats what im looking at. i have geography and history