Measles

waterfaerie

Are any of you taking extra precautions with your kids due to the outbreak, especially babies who haven't had the first MMR yet?

I haven't been doing anything differently but I'm not near the affected areas.

I'm invited and sort of expected to go to a family thing in Dublin with my 8 month old but I'm not sure what to do. I know there are plenty of small babies in Dublin and I don't know if many of the parents there are worried? I know the risk is small but f you had the option of staying clear of the affected areas, would you?

fits

We are definitely cagey about visiting dublin with my 11 month olds. What are the affected areas?

waterfaerie

fits wrote: »

We are definitely cagey about visiting dublin with my 11 month olds. What are the affected areas?

I think Dublin and Meath.

catrionanic

I live in Dublin and this is the first I’ve heard about it?!

bee06

It’s been going on for the last few weeks. There has been a lot in the news about it as well.

fits

Latest from HSE.https://hse.ie/eng/services/news/media/pressrel/Measles%20cases%20in%20Dublin%20and%20Meath%20increase%20to%2017.html

catrionanic

Anti-vaxxers putting children and pregnant women at risk once more

Toots

catrionanic wrote: »

Anti-vaxxers putting children and pregnant women at risk once more

Yup. Just got a text from my son's school on Friday saying they've one confirmed case of measles. I'm 8 months pregnant and don't have immunity to Rubella, measles etc. I've to get the MMR after the birth again, to hopefully give me immunity but my baby won't inherit any antibodies from me so worried sick about that.

I heard some GPs are administering the first vaccine a couple of months ahead of schedule because of the outbreak - afaik some will do it at 6 months instead of 9 so they'd have some protection.

um7y1h83ge06nx

My wife and I have a 3 month old, living in Limerick and would like to pop up to Dublin before Christmas to visit my brother and just have a day out.

However we've decided to put off any plans until this blows over. Chances of her contracting measles would be slim we believe but all the same don't want to risk it unless we absolutely have to travel to the areas affected.

Oh and feck the anti vaxxers!

waterfaerie

Toots wrote: »

Yup. Just got a text from my son's school on Friday saying they've one confirmed case of measles. I'm 8 months pregnant and don't have immunity to Rubella, measles etc. I've to get the MMR after the birth again, to hopefully give me immunity but my baby won't inherit any antibodies from me so worried sick about that.

Where is that? Do you know if it's one of the 17 already announced cases or do you think it's spreading even more?

Hopefully you'll be ok. Can you make alternative arrangements for your son instead of sending him to the school?

Toots wrote: »

I heard some GPs are administering the first vaccine a couple of months ahead of schedule because of the outbreak - afaik some will do it at 6 months instead of 9 so they'd have some protection.

Apparently if they do it early it's considered an extra dose and they still need to get the two scheduled doses, which are at 12 months and at 5 years.

greenttc

Toots wrote: »

I heard some GPs are administering the first vaccine a couple of months ahead of schedule because of the outbreak - afaik some will do it at 6 months instead of 9 so they'd have some protection.

Is it not twelve months they get the first part of the MMR?

Wonder why vaccines are assigned to a certain age and what effect having it earlier would have if any? And how effective is having just one of the two, is the second shot like a booster so a baby would be sufficiently covered with just the one? All questions for my gp i suppose, wish they had it covered in that HSE fact sheet.

Toots

It's in the Leopardstown area of Dublin. I don't know can I say any more than that, but I'd imagine the HSE might tell you - we all got letters from them. Luckily my son has had his full MMR so he's safe. I rang the hospital in a panic, and they told me that in order to be exposed, I'd need to be in the same room as the infected person for 15 minutes, so I should be ok in that regard. They've got a Christmas fair thing coming up and I'll be giving that a miss just in case.

I'm more worried about when the baby is born, I'll be keeping her in a bubble until the outbreak is over or until she gets her vaccines

The likes of public transport is what you'd want to watch because it's an enclosed space full of people you don't know.

greenttc

waterfaerie wrote: »

Apparently if they do it early it's considered an extra dose and they still need to get the two scheduled doses, which are at 12 months and at 5 years.

Ah, that goes towards answering my question somewhat. Was typing my post while you were posting yours so hadnt read it.

My son is almost 10 months so wonder what difference two months would make. And how soon does a baby get immunity after vaccination?

waterfaerie

greenttc wrote: »

Is it not twelve months they get the first part of the MMR?

Wonder why vaccines are assigned to a certain age and what effect having it earlier would have if any? And how effective is having just one of the two, is the second shot like a booster so a baby would be sufficiently covered with just the one? All questions for my gp i suppose, wish they had it covered in that HSE fact sheet.

It is 12 months.

They used to just give one dose, which is why a lot of adults are susceptible because a second one wasn't scheduled for us as kids.

Apparently, after one dose, between 5-10% of people don't have full immunity. After 2 doses, that drops to less than 1%.

greenttc

greenttc wrote: »

Ah, that goes towards answering my question somewhat. Was typing my post while you were posting yours so hadnt read it.

My son is almost 10 months so wonder what difference two months would make. And how soon does a baby get immunity after vaccination?

Just to answer my own questions, optimum immunity is aquired two weeks after vaccination, found this on power point slides on hse website.

Not sure about answer to my other question still

Toots

waterfaerie wrote: »

It is 12 months.

They used to just give one dose, which is why a lot of adults are susceptible because a second one wasn't scheduled for us as kids.

Apparently, after one dose, between 5-10% of people don't have full immunity. After 2 doses, that drops to less than 1%.

That's exactly what happened to me. And apparently it should have been detected in my first pregnancy, but it wasn't.

catrionanic

Okay now I’m half terrified

I wonder can it be caught in the park etc from sharing swings. Or in a playgroup when the baby puts a toy in his mouth. Or in the swimming pool?! We do all of these things regularly.

Is there any of the mother’s immunity given from breastmilk at all?

endacl

Is it ok to state plainly and clearly that people who, in the absence of any medical reason not to vaccinate their child, choose not to vaccinate their child, are idiots? Complete and utter ones? Would it be ok to just leave this thought sitting here to set the tone for when the first complete and utter idiot arrives with links to YouTube videos, babbling something about 'well Japan something something big pharma'?

greenttc

catrionanic wrote: »

Okay now I’m half terrified

I wonder can it be caught in the park etc from sharing swings. Or in a playgroup when the baby puts a toy in his mouth. Or in the swimming pool?! We do all of these things regularly.

Is there any of the mother’s immunity given from breastmilk at all?

Well i am hoping that the advice that toots got about 15 mins in the same room will apply and not just catching it off swings. Hopefully chlorine helps in pools. Playgroups.......that might be a risk.

leopardstown is a little close for my liking....

Might ring gp in morning to see what they say about getting vaccine early.

catrionanic

greenttc wrote: »

Well i am hoping that the advice that toots got about 15 mins in the same room will apply and not just catching it off swings. Hopefully chlorine helps in pools. Playgroups.......that might be a risk.

leopardstown is a little close for my liking....

Might ring gp in morning to see what they say about getting vaccine early.

Please let us know what they say! Our GP receptionist is utterly useless but the PHN is pretty good so I may ring her on Tuesday

waterfaerie

catrionanic wrote: »

Okay now I’m half terrified

I wonder can it be caught in the park etc from sharing swings. Or in a playgroup when the baby puts a toy in his mouth. Or in the swimming pool?! We do all of these things regularly.

Is there any of the mother’s immunity given from breastmilk at all?

I'm sorry, I don't want to start a panic!

I'd imagine outdoors is fine but I'd say playgroup, sharing toys and swimming pools are quite high risk (by high risk I mean assuming an infected person is there). I read that you can get it by just entering an enclosed space where an infected person has just been. I can't remember but I read that on either the HSE or the NHS website.

One of the scary things is that symptoms don't show for days after the person has caught it so anyone could have it and not know. I've read you're most contagious between 4 days before and 4 days after you get symptoms.

I don't know about the breastmilk. I doubt there'd be enough immunity for such a strong virus. Also, depending on your age, you might not be fully immune yourself anyway. Anyone born before 1988 has more than likely only had one dose. I'm breastfeeding as well but have only had the one.

waterfaerie

greenttc wrote: »

Not sure about answer to my other question still

I'm not sure, either. Maybe they can't give younger babies the full dose? I'm just guessing, though.

waterfaerie

endacl wrote: »

Is it ok to state plainly and clearly that people who, in the absence of any medical reason not to vaccinate their child, choose not to vaccinate their child, are idiots? Complete and utter ones? Would it be ok to just leave this thought sitting here to set the tone for when the first complete and utter idiot arrives with links to YouTube videos, babbling something about 'well Japan something something big pharma'?

I agree with you but I was really hoping the thread wouldn't go down this route.

CelticRambler

To answer the various questions raised above about immunity and transmission:

1) Yes, babies inherit measles immunity from their mothers (while in the womb and through early breastfeeding)

2) This immunity persists until around 10 months of age, at which point it drops off quite rapidly, which is why this it the time chosen to give the first vaccine

3a) because everyone's different, some babies (20%) will have less/no immunity at 9-10 months and might benefit from an early vaccine in the case of an outbreak
3b) because everyone's different, some babies (5%) will still have very good immunity at 12 months and get no benefit from the vaccine
3c) because of those two "unknowns" a vaccine given earlier than 12 months is not counted and the baby still needs a "first" vaccine at/after 12 months, and every child vaccinated at/after 12 months should get a second vaccine at some point before they're 5 years old.

4) The virus is spread by coughed-out water droplets. These float around in the air, whether you can see them or not, in the same way as the fog in a bathroom after someone's had a hot shower, and remain infectious for about two hours.

5) The risk of catching the disease from a contagious child isn't as simple as "OK/not OK" and believing in safe times like 15 minutes is not helpful. The risk of catching the disease from an infected person starts at 0 minutes in their presence and it all depends on whether they are actually contagious, whether they've coughed out the germs and whether the unvaccinated person has breathed them in.

6) Any activity that brings children physically close together will increase the risk. Some examples ...
(a) Playgroups/crêches/classrooms are probably the worst because there are lots of children breathing the same heated, moist air.
(b) Swimming pools also have a lot of heated, moist air that helps the virus droplets survive and children in communal areas coughing because of chlorine irritating their airways
(c) Outdoor playgrounds on a windy day are low risk for children that are playing on their own, on swings for example. But if there are children queued up to go on a slide, or piled onto a roundabout, and one coughs into the face of another then the disease can be passed on easily enough (this is probably how the Disney epidemic started - children in queues)
(d) Giving an infected child a lift in your car will be a risk to other children while the child is in the car with them - but not the next day
(e) Going to mixed adult-and-child events (e.g. the zoo, shopping, eating out) are a medium risk, as the children will tend to be physically separated from each other by their parents, and these environments tend to have better ventilation/less stagnant air. Obviously that doesn't apply if all the children are put at the same table at a wedding!
(f) Going to the cinema is high risk because (duh! :cool:) children's movies attract a lot of children, who will share the same airspace for 80-90 minutes or more.

Other than the links above, more info can be found on the CDC website

fits

I was vaccinated as a baby and caught it when I was four years old. I was terribly ill but not hospitalized. My mum is still a bit traumatized by it. My lads are eleven months and I’m still breastfeeding maybe that helps or maybe not. My GP wouldn’t give vaccine before twelve months

pwurple

greenttc wrote: »

Wonder why vaccines are assigned to a certain age and what effect having it earlier would have if any? And how effective is having just one of the two, is the second shot like a booster so a baby would be sufficiently covered with just the one? All questions for my gp i suppose, wish they had it covered in that HSE fact sheet.

Vaccines are assigned a certain age or in some cases weight, because that is how the clinical trials were designed.

The medical trial gives the patients the exact same assigned dose at the same age and then test immunity levels later. So then we know from the results, this exact dose works at this exact age. This is why delaying vaccines generally is not recommended, unless there is a reason it can’t be given at the recommended time. There is a huge body of test data behind showing this particular scenario is effective.

yellow hen

Toots wrote: »

Yup. Just got a text from my son's school on Friday saying they've one confirmed case of measles. I'm 8 months pregnant and don't have immunity to Rubella, measles etc. I've to get the MMR after the birth again, to hopefully give me immunity but my baby won't inherit any antibodies from me so worried sick about that.

I heard some GPs are administering the first vaccine a couple of months ahead of schedule because of the outbreak - afaik some will do it at 6 months instead of 9 so they'd have some protection.

I am so annoyed on your behalf. When will people wake up and learn the importance of vaccinating their children against potentially fatal diseases. I hope you get to enjoy the remainder of your pregnancy.

fro9etb8j5qsl2

Yikes haven't been on here in a while but just came on to post something else and saw this thread. Toots I'm raging on your behalf! We are due to take our 2.5 year old for allergy testing next week and I'm a bit iffy about bringing the 8 month old now :eek: Visit to ikea will definitely have to be cancelled.

Jesus people are idiots sometimes. Whatever about risking their own childs health, to risk other immunocompromised people, babies and pregnant women is the height of ignorance and selfishness. I remember reading a piece written by Roald Dahl about his daughter who died from measles complications and it really has stuck with me. Why would anyone risk that

Toots

yellow hen wrote: »

I am so annoyed on your behalf. When will people wake up and learn the importance of vaccinating their children against potentially fatal diseases. I hope you get to enjoy the remainder of your pregnancy.

I'm pretty annoyed about it too. I'm a bit paranoid about catching stuff when pregnant anyway, and this has just made it worse. Have my 30 week check up at the GP this week and am dreading sitting in the waiting room in a potential cloud of disease. Also worried for my little girl when she's born, because she'll have no immunity at all, but I'm going to ask the GP would it be possible to give her a dose of vaccine very early because of this. Off to buy surgical masks and gloves now!

CelticRambler

Toots wrote: »

Also worried for my little girl when she's born, because she'll have no immunity at all, but I'm going to ask the GP would it be possible to give her a dose of vaccine very early because of this.

Toots, when you say you've no immunity, do you mean that you never had the MMR vaccine and you never had measles as a child? Or have you been tested and know that you've no antibodies?

It'd be much better for you to ask your GP if there's any measles vaccine that you can have while you're still pregnant (though you're running out of time) ; I very much doubt that any GP would give the vaccine to a baby under 6 months, as that's going against the guidelines and if anything happened, the GP would be responsible.

Toots

CelticRambler wrote: »

Toots, when you say you've no immunity, do you mean that you never had the MMR vaccine and you never had measles as a child? Or have you been tested and know that you've no antibodies?

It'd be much better for you to ask your GP if there's any measles vaccine that you can have while you're still pregnant (though you're running out of time) ; I very much doubt that any GP would give the vaccine to a baby under 6 months, as that's going against the guidelines and if anything happened, the GP would be responsible.

I was born before they started giving the second dose, so I had the one at 1 year but that was it. And I never had measles as a kid, and my pregnancy bloods confirmed that I've no antibodies. Apparently this should have been detected on my first pregnancy and I should have been given the MMR booster after the birth of my son, but it was missed, so I had no idea it was an issue until I got a call from the hospital after my booking blood tests. I asked was there anything I could get at all while I was pregnant, but the MMR isn't safe to administer during pregnancy at all, so there's no way I can get it. I'll be given it in the hospital after I give birth.